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View Full Version : Treasure FUBAR 4th ed.



HMS Invincible
2009-06-26, 03:58 AM
This spring and summer was really chaotic for our group and long story short, I have no idea how much treasure I've given out or what they should have. Everyone is about lvl 7 and have +2 armor and weapons, and 1-2k gold. Some people have more, some less but we had a lot of new and old characters coming and going so even I'm not too sure who has what.

Suggestions to remedy this situation? Or should I just let it slide and resume the normal treasure parcel system at lvl 7?

Gralamin
2009-06-26, 04:03 AM
This spring and summer was really chaotic for our group and long story short, I have no idea how much treasure I've given out or what they should have. Everyone is about lvl 7 and have +2 armor and weapons, and 1-2k gold. Some people have more, some less but we had a lot of new and old characters coming and going so even I'm not too sure who has what.

Suggestions to remedy this situation? Or should I just let it slide and resume the normal treasure parcel system at lvl 7?

Easy way:
Tell everyone to rechoose items based on level 7 wealth, Start with Parcels at level 7.

Hard way:
Take their sheets, take parcel list, Fiddle and combine until you seem to have a clear list of who has what parcels and what parcels are needed. Give out items based on this expanded list.

Muyten
2009-06-26, 04:45 AM
I'd say it's ok to start sticking with the parcel-system from now on. Unless the party seems extremely over- or under-powered it's not that big of a problem and will quickly even itself out completely.

MickJay
2009-06-26, 04:58 AM
Screw the parcel system, WBL and all that, it's up to you if you want your players to be a little stronger or weaker; the only difference it makes is whether they'll be able to take on slightly stronger challenges than their CR would indicate or not. :smalltongue: If you're worried about giving them too much, for the next session or two just give them items they can't use, they'll be effectively worth 1/5 of their market value to they players, since they'll be good only for reselling.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-26, 07:14 AM
This spring and summer was really chaotic for our group and long story short, I have no idea how much treasure I've given out or what they should have. Everyone is about lvl 7 and have +2 armor and weapons, and 1-2k gold. Some people have more, some less but we had a lot of new and old characters coming and going so even I'm not too sure who has what.

Suggestions to remedy this situation? Or should I just let it slide and resume the normal treasure parcel system at lvl 7?

Using the Auto-level-up thingy, cause it's quick, and the auto-add equipment to get level appropriate items and cash, a Lvl 7 character made via dnd chararacter builder came out with; +2 weapons and armour and 1,800gp.

Specifically three items, one level +1, level, and level -1. In actual play, it is assumed that they have the chance to loot more powerful items than that, however, giving them potential to have up to a lvl 12 magic item (for a +3) though, to be fair, probably only 1 amongst the party.

I'd seccond getting a look at their sheets and making notes, but to be quite honest, from what you say, you're pretty much bang on the guidelines.

eepop
2009-06-26, 08:52 AM
This is more of an extreme option, but it makes loot very hassle free:

1) No item has an enhancement bonus to attacks/defenses/etc.
2) Players receive the enhancement bonuses automatically from leveling up at levels 1,6,11,16,21,26. (bonus to attacks applies to any attack with the weapon or implement keyword)

Then you can give out items pretty much at whatever pace you want.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-06-26, 09:07 AM
This spring and summer was really chaotic for our group and long story short, I have no idea how much treasure I've given out or what they should have. Everyone is about lvl 7 and have +2 armor and weapons, and 1-2k gold. Some people have more, some less but we had a lot of new and old characters coming and going so even I'm not too sure who has what.
That's pretty much exactly what 7th level PCs should have. I suggest just start using the parcel system, and give the first few best parcels to the PCs who have the least magical bling.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-26, 03:07 PM
This is more of an extreme option, but it makes loot very hassle free:

1) No item has an enhancement bonus to attacks/defenses/etc.
2) Players receive the enhancement bonuses automatically from leveling up at levels 1,6,11,16,21,26. (bonus to attacks applies to any attack with the weapon or implement keyword)

Then you can give out items pretty much at whatever pace you want.
Alternately: Bonus-giving items exist, but the size of the bonus an item gives depends on the character's level, not the item. So a 13th-level character doesn't have a +3 sword; he has a magic sword, and that gives him a +3 bonus because he's level 13 (or whatever bonus is appropriate at level 13).

(I think I saw Frank and K recommend this somewhere.)

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-26, 03:11 PM
Alternately: Bonus-giving items exist, but the size of the bonus an item gives depends on the character's level, not the item. So a 13th-level character doesn't have a +3 sword; he has a magic sword, and that gives him a +3 bonus because he's level 13 (or whatever bonus is appropriate at level 13).

(I think I saw Frank and K recommend this somewhere.)

Item levels, right. I'm sure Adventurers vault mentions something about this. It's a nice concept, I'd say. It gives more of a feel of being an iconic character. The type of Heroes to aquire Magic Weapons rarely seem to trade them in except in rare circumstances. Keeping the same sword for all those years and levels would give you much more emotional attachment to it, I'd think.

Yakk
2009-06-26, 03:17 PM
Do characters stay around at least a level?

For each character, roll 1d4 twice.

The first one determines the level of the item. Their level, +1d4.

The second determines the type of the item. 1 = weapon, 2 = armor, 3 = neck, 4 = other

Now go and create a item cutomised for their character of that level and type. Have it appear as treasure at some point.

In addition, create a simple other value budget based off of twice the value of a magic item equal to the party level. Hand that much cash out.

Doing it this way, your total state as a DM consists of:
A: 1 checkbox per PC (have I allocated a treasure for that PC this level?), and/or the name of the item.
B: a quantity of gp to be handed out for the entire level (or residuum)
C: A way to spend their gp or residuum on making items.

If you pass a level without handing out an item, just hand it out asap at the next level (and allocate another randomised pool of magic items for the next level).

You don't enforce who gets what item. You don't enforce if their items suck or not. You don't enforce anything else.

And you start now. Ignore what came before. Within 1 or two levels, the above system will get your party to within the right ballpark of goods.

(And yes, this gives out marginally more magic items than the 4e rules say -- but as the above is perfectly capable of giving a party two sets of +2 leather armor in a row...)

4e GP per level is not that tight. If you are within +/- 50%, your party won't be screwed. Having the ability to 'buy or make' items +1 plus under "standard" is enough to prevent characters from being screwed, and those items are cheap due to the factor-of-5 increase in prices for each plus.

So long as you hand out roughly the right amount of items, spread the spotlight around for who the item is made for, and hand out enough cash for characters to gear themselves in "weak" items, 4e will deal with it.

Doug Lampert
2009-06-26, 03:54 PM
This spring and summer was really chaotic for our group and long story short, I have no idea how much treasure I've given out or what they should have. Everyone is about lvl 7 and have +2 armor and weapons, and 1-2k gold. Some people have more, some less but we had a lot of new and old characters coming and going so even I'm not too sure who has what.

Suggestions to remedy this situation? Or should I just let it slide and resume the normal treasure parcel system at lvl 7?

Don't fuss over it. Ignore it.

Seriously. 3.x had exponential increasing wealth (almost the exact rate per level as 4th ed actually, both systems average about 30% per level), but prices were only quadratic prices and there were multiple bonuses adding to the same numbers (up to 6 ways to easily add to AC in core). This meant that WBL was IMPORTANT, give double or half the expected wealth and AC could be off by 6 or so and attack and damage off by 2 or so.

Many people seem to assume that fourth is the same, that a bit more or less wealth makes a substantial difference.

4th ed. isn't the same. 4th ed still has exponential wealth increase, but the prices are also exponential and few item bonuses stack. 4th ed if wealth is off by a factor of FIVE (i.e 400% too much or 80% to little) the characters are basically +1 to everything or -1 to everything. Which isn't even CLOSE to as big a deal as a much much smaller difference in 3.x would be.

Items are less important to character power in 4th ed. And the prices are far better ballanced with WBL (seriously, who thought exponential wealth and quadratic prices were a good idea?). There's far more room to be off and have it simply not matter much.

Even if you are off by FAR FAR more than it sounds like you are it will balance out with astonishing speed. Don't give out nothing and don't give out stuff far higher than level and it will all come out in the wash.

Thajocoth
2009-06-26, 04:19 PM
A - It sounds like they're at about the right spot.

B - They should spend some of that gp on neck slot items.

C - Even if it wasn't balanced, if you continue with parcels from here, it will be the same in a few levels as if you balanced them now. So don't worry so much...