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Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 09:04 AM
I was looking for a firearms file on my hard-drive today when I stumbled unto the following. I have no memory of writing this. But it definitely is written by me. I spend far too much time thinking about weapons... :)



Alternate Weapon Design System

I own quite a few D20 books. Specifically I own quite a few D20 equipment books. And no equipment book is complete without a copious list of weapons with their statistics in neat little rows. After some thought I have come to the conclusion that this is largely unnecessary.

One of the great things about the evolution of D&D from the 2nd Edition to the current 3.5 version is simplification. The writers did away with multiple experience point charts; the annoying THAC0 charts and created one cohesive mechanic that is the d20. I would like to continue that trend with an alternate weapons design system.

My goal is to create a tool that will allow both Game Masters and players to design any weapon they would like a player character or non-player character to possess. Without having the need of page after page of weapon statistics filling up gaming books.

The first thing I would like to do is deconstruct the current weapons rules a bit.

Note: I will be referring to Medium weapons in this system. They will still scale, either up or down, in the same manner as the existing rules describe.

The first thing that the D&D weapons have is their type of damage. The three varieties being: Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing.

The second thing is the type of class they have: Light, One-handed, Two-handed or Ranged.

Lastly is the level of complexity that the weapon possesses: Simple, Martial or Exotic.

I will be redefining these three types of terms slightly in my proposed system.

Type of Damage:

Weapons will still possess one (or more) of the standard types of damage. Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage all exist within my system. The difference is in how the different types are applied to a target. A weapon can only do one type of damage at a time. It will do Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing to a target, not two types at once. A weapon might have the ability to do more than one type of damage at a time but only one type may be used per attack. If a weapon has more than one damage type on one end of a weapon the user may switch between them as a free action. (Double weapons will be discussed below).
Example: An axe/hammer has one edged and one blunt side. If a Fighter had only one attack per round he could choose which type of damage would be applied with a successful hit, either Slashing or Bludgeoning. He could change the type in his next attack as a free action. Once he has more than one attack per round he may choose which type is done as often as he has attacks.

Class of Weapon:

The SRD definition of a Light weapon still applies: “A light weapon is easier to use in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and it can be used while grappling. A light weapon is used in one hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus (if any) to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or one-half the wielder’s Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon was held in the wielder’s primary hand only.”

In addition: A Light weapon is small, barely larger than the hand of the user. The base Light weapon is Simple. There are three types of Light weapons, Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing. The base statistics for a Light weapon are: 1d4 Damage, ×2 Critical multiplier and a weight of 1 lb. They have no throwing range. All Light weapons can benefit from the Weapons Finesse Feat. You get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a Light weapon on your body (see the Sleight of Hand skill).

One-handed weapon information from the SRD still applies: “A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or ½ his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.”

In addition: The base One-handed weapon is Simple. There are three types of One-handed weapons, Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing. The base statistics for a One-handed weapon are: 1d6 Damage, ×2 Critical multiplier and a weight of 3 lb. They have no throwing range.

Two-handed weapon information from the SRD is still applicable: “Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.”

In addition: The base Two-handed weapon is Simple. There are three types of Two-handed weapons, Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing. The base statistics for a Two-handed weapon are: 1d8 Damage, ×2 Critical multiplier and a weight of 6 lb. They have no throwing range. A Two-handed weapon (that is not a Double weapon) can be set against a charge. If you use a ready action to set a Two-handed against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character.


I depart most radically when it comes to Ranged weapons: All Ranged weapons require two hands to use effectively. The Strength bonus is not applied but any penalty would be subtracted from damage rolled. There are three types of Ranged weapons, Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing. The base statistics for a Ranged weapon are: 1d6 Damage, ×2 Critical multiplier, weighs 4 lb. and has a ranged increment of 40 feet.
Ranged weapons use ammunition to deal damage. Ammunition used as a melee weapon is treated as a Light improvised weapon (-4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a Light, Simple weapon of its size. Ammunition that hits its target is destroyed; ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Reloading a ranged weapon is a move equivalent action.

To recap, there are four types of Simple weapons, each having three versions, one Bludgeoning, one Piercing and one Slashing.

Light: 1d4 Damage, x2 Critical multiplier and weighs 1 lb. Can be Finessed.

One-handed: 1d6 Damage, x2 Critical multiplier and weighs 3 lb.

Two-handed: 1d8 Damage, x2 Critical multiplier and weighs 6 lb. Can be set against a charge.

Ranged: 1d6 Damage, ×2 Critical multiplier, weighs 4 lb. and has a ranged increment of 40 feet. Uses ammunition to deal damage.

A Simple weapon is transformed into a Martial weapon when it has new Weapon Qualities applied to its design. Weapon Quality examples would be: increased damage die, greater range increment, reach or some other special weapon quality. The full list is below.

Note: You may pick two Weapon Qualities to add to a Simple weapon to make it a Martial weapon. A character that uses a weapon with which he or she is not proficient takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls.

Weapon Qualities:

Increased Damage Die:

The weapon does one greater die of damage than is listed for its type. Damage dice increase in the following manner: 1d4 becomes 1d6, 1d6 becomes 1d8, 1d8 becomes 1d10 and 1d10 becomes 2d6.
A Light weapon can not have this Quality applied and remain Martial; it becomes an Exotic weapon.
A One-handed weapon may have this Quality applied once becoming a Martial weapon. If it is chosen a second time it becomes an Exotic weapon.
A Two-handed weapon may have this Quality applied twice and remain a Martial weapon.
A Ranged weapon may have this Quality applied once becoming a Martial weapon. If it is chosen a second time it becomes an Exotic weapon.

Increased Range Increment:

When applied to a Ranged weapon the range increment is multiplied by two (x2), becoming 80 feet. This Quality can be chosen a second time for a Ranged weapon. The second application gains the Ranged weapon a 50% increase in range, from 80’ to 120 feet. A Ranged weapon with this Quality chosen twice can not be used from horseback.
This Quality can be chosen for a Light or One-handed weapon. A Light weapon gains a range increment of 30’ and a One-handed weapon gains a range increment of 20 feet.
This Quality can not be applied to a Two-handed weapon.
A weapon with this Quality can not also have the Reach Quality.
From the SRD: “The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons.
It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.”

Increased Critical Range:

This Quality may be applied to any weapon once and it will remain a Martial weapon, changing the Critical Range from 20 to 19 – 20. If this Quality is chosen a second time the weapon becomes Exotic, the new Critical Range will be 18 – 20.

Increased Critical Multiplier:

This weapon Quality may be applied to any weapon once and it will remain a Martial weapon, the new Critical Multiplier going from x2 to x3. If this Quality is chosen a second time the weapon becomes Exotic, with the new Critical Multiplier of x4 rather than x3.

Reach:

From the SRD: “A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.”
This Quality may only be chosen once.
This Quality may not be applied to a Light or Ranged weapons.

Close Quarters Adaptation:

This Quality allows a Reach weapon to also attack adjacent squares. Choosing this Quality makes the weapon Exotic.

Double weapon:

From the SRD: “A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.”
The above passage applies to Two-handed weapons only.
A Light or One-handed weapon with this Quality may have two ends that deal damage but only one may be used per attack. Switching from one end to the other is a free action.

Multiple Damage Types:

This Quality may be applied to any weapon with one end, once. This would allow a weapon to have any two combinations of the three available damage types: Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing. If this Quality is chosen a second time it must be applied to the opposite end of a Double Weapon (see above). A Double Weapon under my system may have all three damage types. Switching between Damage Types is a free action.

Faster Loading:

This Quality allows a Ranged weapon to be loaded as a free action.
The Rapid Reload Feat makes this Weapon Quality superfluous.

Trip Attack:

You can use this Quality to make a Trip attack against an opponent. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.
This Quality can not be applied to a Ranged weapon.
It may be applied to a Thrown One-handed weapon. You can’t be tripped during your own trip attempt when using the weapon in this manner.

Weapons Finesse:

This Quality allows the One-handed or Two-handed weapon to be effected by the Weapons Finesse Feat. A Two-handed weapon with this Quality becomes Exotic.

Disarm:

When using a weapon with this Quality, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the opposed attack roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

Ranged Strength Bonus:

This Quality allows a user’s Strength bonus to be applied to a Ranged weapons damage.

Treat As Ammunition:

This Quality allows a Thrown weapon to be treated as ammunition. Although they are Thrown weapons, such weapons are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them and what happens to them after they are thrown.
This Quality may only be applied to a Light weapon. Such weapons are smaller than normal. Their damage die is reduced by one size from 1d4 to 1d2. The weight drops to ½ lb.

Special Qualities:

This is a catchall category for unusual Weapon Qualities. Examples: whips, the Halfling Skiprock, the Warsling, etc. These will need to be handled on a case by case basis.

Exotic Weapons:

If a Martial weapon has a third Weapon Quality applied, it will become an Exotic (if it is not already Exotic). This will require the user to take the Exotic Weapons Feat for that weapon. If a design adds a fourth Weapon Quality to a weapon, the Exotic Feat will need to be taken again. This will continue at a one-to-one ratio. For each weapons Quality above the third will require the purchase of an addition Exotic Weapons Feat.

Notes: Under this system some weapons listed in the SRD remain in the categories that the original rules placed them in and others become more difficult to use. In a few cases weapons become easier to use. By each weapon type:

Of the current Simple weapons six (6) of them remain Simple weapons. The remaining eleven (11) become Martial.

Of the current Martial weapons twenty-two (22) remain martial weapons. The remaining twelve (12) become Exotic.

Of the current Exotic weapons thirteen (13) remain Exotic weapons, two (2) become Martial. The remaining two (2) would require purchasing more than one Exotic weapon Feat.

This system is still in development. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Rigon
2009-06-26, 10:57 AM
First: I'm sorry but i couldn't find the time to read it all, but - as far as i have read it - it looks really promising.
Second: My only problem is that it isn't 4e. Oh... how i wish that it would be 4e! With animes like Bleach going on each every player (of mine) is chewing on my nerves to request his own personal unique (rip-off yet still custom) weapon. and with the proper rules... this might even work out.

I'm really-really-reeeeaaally sorry to hush away 3.5 as it is, but i'm still thinking that your idea of weapons is fascinating. Please be sure to tell me when you're making this in 4e as well.

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 11:00 AM
First: I'm sorry but i couldn't find the time to read it all, but - as far as i have read it - it looks really promising.
Second: My only problem is that it isn't 4e. Oh... how i wish that it would be 4e! With animes like Bleach going on each every player (of mine) is chewing on my nerves to request his own personal unique (rip-off yet still custom) weapon. and with the proper rules... this might even work out.

I'm really-really-reeeeaaally sorry to hush away 3.5 as it is, but i'm still thinking that your idea of weapons is fascinating. Please be sure to tell me when you're making this in 4e as well.

I understand, it is a bit of a text wall. :)

I have some bad news for you brother, I'm not a fan of 4E. *Really* not a fan of 4E. Feel free to use this yourself if you want to do a conversion. You have my permission. But I'm not going to convert it. Sorry.

Chrono22
2009-06-26, 11:18 AM
Wow, I'm truly impressed.
You seem to have really thought this out... but how would this work in regard to weapon categories. I know dnd doesn't make a distinction between polearms vs. blades (instead lumping everything into proficiencies), but if it did how would the concept of weapon complexity/class work?
Perhaps you would have category (blade), and then the associated class, which depends on the specific weapon...

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 11:26 AM
Wow, I'm truly impressed.
You seem to have really thought this out... but how would this work in regard to weapon categories. I know dnd doesn't make a distinction between polearms vs. blades (instead lumping everything into proficiencies), but if it did how would the concept of weapon complexity/class work?

Thank you.

Since D&D has never really dealt with weapon categories (barring the Unearthed Arcana variant rules), I didn't either. :) I honestly didn't consider it. Most PCs are going to focus on one or at most two weapons. Do you have experience with such categories?

But... now that I think about it, how would we define such categories? A one-handed weapon is a one-handed weapon under my system. Its base design being very similar from weapon to weapon. The player taking that and modifying it as it suits their needs. And once they have done so, haven't they moved the item into a new category? So are my base designs just very broad categories that then spawn smaller and smaller categories? Have you created fractal weapons design? :)

Chrono22
2009-06-26, 12:40 PM
Sort of. Combat (well, everything) in my system is governed by skills. All weapons fall into a group or category, each with its own governing skill. I decided to seperate them, because how each of these categories of weapons are used are very different. It makes more sense that someone who is talented with a sword might be terrible at archery.

Axes
Blades
Bows
Clubs (clubs, morningstars, flails)
Exotic (weapons of unusual design or construction)
Polearms
Martial Arts (unarmed, simple, improvised)

So, I suppose under those you would have the weapon classes: light, double, two handed. Each of the categories I've listed above grant circumstantial bonuses on specific maneuvers (blades are better at called shots, fe). I like the concept of weapon classes, it could be a good starting point for balanced weapon creation rules.

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 01:00 PM
Sort of. Combat (well, everything) in my system is governed by skills. All weapons fall into a group or category, each with its own governing skill. I decided to seperate them, because how each of these categories of weapons are used are very different. It makes more sense that someone who is talented with a sword might be terrible at archery.

Axes
Blades
Bows
Clubs (clubs, morningstars, flails)
Exotic (weapons of unusual design or construction)
Polearms
Martial Arts (unarmed, simple, improvised)

So, I suppose under those you would have the weapon classes: light, double, two handed. Each of the categories I've listed above grant circumstantial bonuses on specific maneuvers (blades are better at called shots, fe). I like the concept of weapon classes, it could be a good starting point for balanced weapon creation rules.

I think we are going to end up with a lot of categories. Light (Blunt), Light (Piercing), Light (Slashing), etc. So I'm not sure that would be the way to go with a skill based combat mechanic. I was basing my idea off of the standard D20 mechanic.

Drothmal
2009-06-26, 04:17 PM
Would this mean that the greatsword is exotic? (2 damage increments, one crit range increment) And I suppose that a greataxe is exotic too (2 damage increments, 1 crit damage increment)

Would you need extra feats for a 2H flail? (1 damage, 1 crit range, trip and disarm)

What would happen with a Falchion? (i.e is it ok to have 2d4 instead of a 1d8 and still be martial?)

I really like the system, but I feel it falls a bit too hard on the most commonly used 2H weapons

Also, what happens with a Morningstar? I know that you can switch types of damage in a weapon that has different sides (as in your hammer-axe example), but I have a hard time thinking how you can do one type of damage and not the other with the other

I do like the idea of customizing the weapons! It would certainly give the 3 feats that a 1st level human warrior gets an interesting twist

Drothmal
2009-06-26, 04:25 PM
Sorry to bother again, but I just realized something

is there a limit to the expansion of the crit range? Otherwise, by making it exotic enough, you could have a 16-20 range on level 1, which would double with keen to 12-20... Is that possible

Sorry for the inconvenience, I'm very curious about this system

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 04:33 PM
Would this mean that the greatsword is exotic? (2 damage increments, one crit range increment) And I suppose that a greataxe is exotic too (2 damage increments, 1 crit damage increment)

Would you need extra feats for a 2H flail? (1 damage, 1 crit range, trip and disarm)

What would happen with a Falchion? (i.e is it ok to have 2d4 instead of a 1d8 and still be martial?)

I really like the system, but I feel it falls a bit too hard on the most commonly used 2H weapons

Also, what happens with a Morningstar? I know that you can switch types of damage in a weapon that has different sides (as in your hammer-axe example), but I have a hard time thinking how you can do one type of damage and not the other with the other

I do like the idea of customizing the weapons! It would certainly give the 3 feats that a 1st level human warrior gets an interesting twist

Great sword, great axe and flail would all be exotic. The falchion would remain martial. Yeah, I think I might either change the different weapon types bit or make an exception for the morningstar. Because I can't think of any other weapons that would do two types at the same time other than the morningstar.

I think that some weapons that are currently martial *should* be considered exotic. having huge numbers of great sword wielding fighters doesn't make any sense. I know it's a fantasy staple, but a great sword was fairly rare in the real world.

I have also been toying with the idea of giving the fighter no bonus feat at 1st level but giving them one feat per level overall.

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 04:35 PM
Sorry to bother again, but I just realized something

is there a limit to the expansion of the crit range? Otherwise, by making it exotic enough, you could have a 16-20 range on level 1, which would double with keen to 12-20... Is that possible

Sorry for the inconvenience, I'm very curious about this system

I would put a cap on that. Maybe tie it into other qualities. So if once you have raised one thing, you can't raise it again until you raise another. Make the feat cost for a weapon so high, it isn't easily abused.

Drothmal
2009-06-26, 04:48 PM
Great sword, great axe and flail would all be exotic. The falchion would remain martial. Yeah, I think I might either change the different weapon types bit or make an exception for the morningstar. Because I can't think of any other weapons that would do two types at the same time other than the morningstar.

I think that some weapons that are currently martial *should* be considered exotic. having huge numbers of great sword wielding fighters doesn't make any sense. I know it's a fantasy staple, but a great sword was fairly rare in the real world.

I have also been toying with the idea of giving the fighter no bonus feat at 1st level but giving them one feat per level overall.

Doesn't the flail also have spikes on it? Or maybe it's just my imagination :smalltongue:

I know what you mean about the greatsword being rarely used in the real world (I mean, it was the same height as the average person in the middle ages), and it is slightly overpowered, but making it exotic/forcing someone to spend a feat on it feels like too much. Maybe giving warriors a choice of 2 exotic weapons in exchange for the first level feat (That way they could potentially get a 2H and a decent bow). Otherwise one of the main perks of the fighter (being able to use a very varied set of weapons) would be lost...

Do you plan on doing a similar system about armors? That could also be interesting...

And, btw, I agree with you about 4e

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-26, 04:52 PM
Doesn't the flail also have spikes on it? Or maybe it's just my imagination :smalltongue:

I know what you mean about the greatsword being rarely used in the real world (I mean, it was the same height as the average person in the middle ages), and it is slightly overpowered, but making it exotic/forcing someone to spend a feat on it feels like too much. Maybe giving warriors a choice of 2 exotic weapons in exchange for the first level feat (That way they could potentially get a 2H and a decent bow). Otherwise one of the main perks of the fighter (being able to use a very varied set of weapons) would be lost...

Do you plan on doing a similar system about armors? That could also be interesting...

And, btw, I agree with you about 4e

Technically a flail is just a weight on a chain. Sometimes it is depicted with spikes. Which makes it more of a 'holy water sprinkler' or a morningstar with a flexible shaft.

I can see your point about the great sword. I'll think on it.

I hadn't considered armour. But I might now.