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Persae
2009-06-26, 02:56 PM
My DM is currently running a campaign in which one of the PCs is quite intent on using poisons. The RAW make this quite difficult, especially at low levels (with poisons costing a pretty copper). As a result of this, the DM and I spent a few hours brainstorming a series of feats as well as new rules that would allow characters to create their own poisons and to have significant control over their function without being TOO overpowered. Please note that this campaign is set in a plane with multiple suns, each having differing properties. Anyway, any comments would be appreciated, since there has been no playtesting to speak of, and with the exception of myself and the DM, none of the people in the group have any serious D&D experience.

(EDIT: I forgot to mention originally that the system for poison immunity is different from core as well. The majority of things that have a physiology differing significantly from mamalian will generally be immune to poison. For instance, a Gelatinous Cube will not be affected by a general use poison, since it's so very different. A dire bear, however, would be. This immunity is not based on sub-types as such, rather on DM discretion. Most undead will also be immune to standard poisons.)

Crafting a poison takes a lot of time. If the person is on the move (i.e. adventuring) it generally takes 8 hours to find sufficient raw material for a single potion, and roughly 16 hours to brew. If the person is able to devote his full attention to the process, he can generally cut both times in half.
A poison's strength is determined based on 2 checks. A survival check must be made to locate an appropriate material, and a Craft(Poisonmaking) check must be made to refine it. The survival check result determines the size of the die rolled, while the Craft check determines the number of dice rolled (CRAFT d SURVIVAL). If the area being searched is particularly barren or unusual, a -6 penalty is imposed on the survival check due to either the scarcity of plants, or the absence of proven components. These checks are rounded down to the nearest 5 and compared to the following table.
For instance, a Survival check of 36 and a Craft (poisonmaking) check of 24 would create a poison capable of dealing 2d5 damage. The intended victim must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Wisdom OR Intelligence Modifier + ½ class level rounded up) Poisons also deal the same amount of damage 1 minute later, if the victim fails another save.
Check Result
15 1
20 2
25 3
30 4
35 5
40 6
45 7
50 8
55 9
60 10

Poisons can generally be stored for 1 month before they lose their effectiveness. After that, there is a cumulative 25% / month likelihood that the poison is useless. Once applied to a weapon ( a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity), a poison is viable for 5 minutes, or until the weapon makes a successful melee attack, whichever comes first. Generally speaking, a poison applied to food prior to cooking will become less effective (or utterly inert) during the cooking process. This is a matter of DM discretion.

FEATS
META-POISON FEATS
Some feats modify the way in which poisons work. These feats, referred to as Meta-Poison Feats, generally trade functionality for damage. When such a feat says it deals “Half damage”, this is determined at the time of creation, and can be calculated as follows.
1) Determine the amount of damage the poison would deal, if not modified by this feat.
2) The number of dice is divided by 2. Round up to determine the first number for stat damage, and down to determine the first number for hit-point damage.
3) The size of the dice is divided by 2. Round Up to determine the second number for stat damage, and down to determine the second number for stat damage.
For instance, a Survival Check of 30 and a Craft(poisonmaking) check of 35 would typically create a poison capable of dealing 5d4 points of damage. If it was created as an ability damaging poison, it would deal 3d2 points of statistic damage and 2d2 points of hit-point damage.
Feats such as Craft Physical Poison indicate that damage is reduced even further, dealing only ¼ damage. This is calculated as above, but instead of dividing by 2, you divide by 4.
Feats such as Bane Poison increase the amount of damage dealt. This is performed in a similar manner to that above, but rather than dividing, you multiply by the appropriate number.
When stacking Meta-Poison feats, the order is very important, as further meta-poison feats are calculated on the remaining hit-point damage done by the poison.

Craft Mental Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisite: 8 ranks craft (poisonmaking)
A poison may be crafted to deal ability damage to Intelligence, Charisma, or Wisdom. The resultant poison deals ½ the damage it normally would to the chosen stat in addition to dealing ½ the normal hit-point damage. You determine the ability to be damaged at the time you make your craft(poisonmaking) check.

Craft Physical Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisite: Craft Mental Poison
A poison may be crafted to deal ability damage to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. The resultant poison deals 1/4 the damage it normally would to the chosen stat in addition to dealing ½ the normal hit-point damage. You determine the ability to be damaged at the time you make your craft(poisonmaking) check.

Potent Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisite: 8 ranks craft (poisonmaking)
A poison can be specifically crafted to deal damage to things normally immune to poison. Such poisons are generally weaker than a typical poison, since they can’t rely on humanoid physiology. They generally deal ¼ damage to any creature or object exposed to them. This damage is determined in the same way as damage for a Physical Statistic damaging poison.

Improved Potent Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisite: Craft Physical Poison, Potent Poison
Some master poisoners have developed ways to deal full damage to anything with their poisons. Such poisons deal full hit-point damage, and ½ of the normal ability damage to anything, regardless of immunities or resistances. For instance, a Survival check of 50 and a Craft (Poisonmaking) check of 50 would normally yield a poison capable of dealing 8d8 points of damage. If the poison were crafted to deal Intelligence damage, it would deal 4d4 points of Intelligence damage and 4d4 points of hit-point damage. If this poison were crafted using this feat, it would deal 2d2 points of Intelligence damage, and 4d4 points of hit-point damage to whatever creature it was used on.

Poisons of the Suns {META-POISON}
Prerequisite: 5 ranks craft (poisonmaking)
Poisons can be crafted to take advantage of the predominant sun on the day of their creation. Such poisons have their effects reduced by half compared to a ‘normal’ poison, but have various effects as summarized by the following table.
Sun Effect
Yellow The poison deals sonic damage.
Brown Creatures are affected as though the Silence spell had been cast on them for a number of rounds equal to the number of dice that WOULD have been dealt. For instance, if the craft check yielded a 6d4 poison, the creature would suffer the penalty for the next 3 rounds.
Red The poison deals fire damage.
Blue The poison deals cold damage.
White The poison deals positive energy damage.
Black The poison deals negative energy damage.
Green The creature takes a -10’ penalty to move speed for a number of rounds equal to the number of dice that WOULD have been dealt. For instance, if the craft check yielded a 6d4 poison, the creature would suffer the penalty for the next 3 rounds.

Experienced Herbalist
A character with this feat has spent so much time experimenting with herbs above and below ground that he or she no longer takes the -6 penalty to survival checks when searching for components in barren areas.

Expedient Poisoner
Prerequisites: Craft (poisonmaking) 5 ranks
Applying a poison is now a move action instead of a standard action. It still provokes attacks of opportunity.

Versatile Poisoner
Prerequisites: Craft (poisonmaking) 8 ranks
You can create a poison specifically designed for other methods of delivery. You can now create a poison suitable for use through consumption or inhalation.

Poison Sense
Prerequisites: Craft (poisonmaking) 10 ranks
Your experience with poisons has given you a second sense about them. You can make a spot check to detect poisons in food or drink, or on weapons. The DC of this check is equal to 20+ the creator's level. You are not automatically entitled to this check, except in the case of food and drink. Even if a poison is detected automatically in food or drink, there is a 25% chance that you have already been exposed.

Disguised Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisites: Versatile Poisoner, Craft (poisonmaking) 12 ranks
Your appreciation for the art of poisonmaking has allowed you to craft poisons of remarkable subtlety. You may create a poison that is much harder to detect than usual. Such a poison adds 10 to the DC to detect such a poison, but reduces the secondary damage by half.

Delayed Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisites: Versatile Poisoner, craft (poisonmaking) 12 ranks
You can create a poison that takes much longer to take effect than usual. Once exposed, such a poison has no immediate effect. 1d4+4 Hours after exposure, this poison takes effect normally, but deals only ½ damage.

Herbicidal Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisites: Versatile Poisoner, Knowledge (Nature) 8 ranks
Your experience and understanding of how plants live allows you to make poisons especially potent to them. Whenever you make an injury or inahlant poison, you may choose to have it effect plants instead of being normal. the poison deals 1.5x damage to plants.

Bane Poison {META-POISON}
Prerequisites: Potent Poison, Craft (poisonmaking) 10 ranks
You can create a poison specifically designed for a specific target. When you create this poison, you must specify a creature sub-type. Against creatures of the given sub-type, this poison deals half again as much damage. Against other creatures, the poison does only half as much damage.
(EDIT: This feat does allow the crafting of poisons which will affect things normally immune to poison. Upon such creatures, this poison will deal full damage, rather than 1.5x If the character posesses the feat Improved Potent Poison, it will deal 1.5x damage regardless of immunity.)

Zeta Kai
2009-06-26, 04:06 PM
Fascinating. Over at the VUACS project, the Build Team has been working on a poison revision for 3E. It bears some similarities to what you've done here. I like what I see, especially the use of poison feats, which we didn't really think of. Kudos, & welcome to the forum.

Ranis
2009-06-26, 05:11 PM
Zeta, can you link us to what you all have done?

(I am the DM in question, btw)

DracoDei
2009-06-28, 05:15 PM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4889524) may prove relevant. Make sure to scroll down to post 30 after the initial posts to see my contribution to the thread (it was a PrC).

Persae
2009-06-29, 09:01 AM
One idea that Ranis and I had bandied about (and eventually dismissed) was the concept of using these feats / mechanics to form a new ranger track to add more versatility than simply 2-weapon fighting or ranged combat...

Zeta Kai
2009-06-29, 09:18 AM
Zeta, can you link us to what you all have done?

(I am the DM in question, btw)

Afro & I haven't posted our work yet. I think that we're gonna do one more minor revision, & then it will be ready for the final publication of the VUACS project. I'm sorry that I don't have more at the moment. Stay tuned.

Ranis
2009-06-29, 01:20 PM
I think we could definitely turn this into a Prestige Class, Persae. We'll have to fiddle with it some more.