D&D 3.x ed 'Skill-Monkey' question.

[Humbog]

Hello everybody :)

I thought that now, as I have finally created an account and has something of substance to ask for, I would make this thread. I do hope I'm using the word 'Skill-Monkey' correctly.

Over this coming summer I'm hoping to play some campaigns with my brother and his friends. Now, what they know of me is that I'm a bit of a witty joker. That's more or less it. Therefore, I wanted to surprise them/leave the gasping for air and gaping in disbelief. So what to do?

Then it struck me. As far as I know, even though their campaigns are not all about combat, they tend to have a big load of fighting in them anyway, for various reasons (be it just that the PCs get into a bar brawl) and so I'm intending to create a character which, at first, to them will seem like he's quite amazing. That meaning that I want him to do almost anything from Hide and Move Silent into Diplomacy, Perform (ex. Singing) and Craft (Basketweaving (as that seems to be a favourite on these boards)) well.

A jack-of-all-trades, you might say, yet still extraordinarily capable in all these trades, so more like a 'master'-of-all-trades.

Away with the background story now, this here is my real and actual question!

As far as I remember (my Player's Handbook is in another country at the moment), the human rogue will be the best choice for this character, as the rogue is the class with the highest number of skills/level and humans gain extra skills as well (as far as I remember!!).
Therefore, I intend to boost firstly Intelligence, then Charisma, then Wisdom as much as possible (I want the character to be more of a 'smooth talker/merchant/diplomat' rather than 'sneaker/acrobat').

Now, this being said, I'm not sure that any of the assumptions I've just made are correct, and any corrections, ideas or other things I should do/paths I should take are greatly welcomed.

I do not intend to make this character comic relief, but I do want the players to go a bit "... Wtf?" the first time she disappears in the middle of combat, only to pop up later and claim never to lay a hand on anyone (stronger, at least).

[Pharaoh's Fist]

If in core, bard.

Out of core, Rogue/Chameleon or Bard with the spell Improvisation and the alternate class feature Bardic Knack. See if the DM will let Bardic Knack work with the feat Jack of All Trades.

[Humbog]

Ah, I must be mistaken then.
A bard gets more skill points than a rogue does?

I don't have too many books out of the core, would you mind fleshing out for me what a 'chameleon' is and where I'd find it?

[Devils_Advocate]

I believe that the Factotum class, from Dungeonscape, is supposed to be the ultimate skill monkey. There's the Exemplar prestige class from some other book, but I think that that's more about being really good at one skill in particular.

Wisdom is a dump stat for a skill monkey, because there are relatively few skills based on it. Dexterity, on the other hand, is big, because there are bunch of skills based on it. And you'll be relying on it for your AC, too, since you'll want to avoid armors with an Armor Check Penalty. You'll probably also want to use Weapon Finesse or archery.

Your stats should probably be something like Int > Dex > Cha > Con > Wis > Str. Those first three stats are the important ones, anyway.

What books do you have to work with?

Edit: Rogues get more skill points than Bards, but it's debatable whether this makes Rogue a better class for a jack-of-all-trades character.

Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b)

[Draz74]

Yes, if you can go out-of-Core, Factotum from Dungeonscape is perfect.

Chameleon is a great jack-of-all-trades class, but I don't think it's what you're looking for. It's mainly for spellcasting flexibility.

Factotum is the one who can stun the rest of the party with amazement with skill checks.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Bardic Knack ACF from PHBII gives up Bardic Knowledge in exchange for 1/2 bard level to all skills, or your skill ranks, whichever is better, but it doesn't work with trained-only skills that you have no ranks in. Then you take Jack of All Trades(feat, don't remember where from), to make you count as trained in all skills(doesn't really work by RAW, but definitely RAI, and most DMs allow it). Snag Snowflake Wardance(Frostburn) to enable you to melee, and if you hit level 10, maybe look at Sublime Chord(PrC that allows you to cast like a Sorcerer, CArc). Even without that, though, proper use of Wands and spells will mean you're a Skillmonkey that can melee, heal, and buff.

Factotum is also nice for doing anything, but you only have so many skill points, and you have every class skill to spend them on. Though you do get casting, SA, d8 HD, healing, Turn Undead, and about anything else you want. A Changeling Factotum Chameleon can pretend to be anyone or anything, and probably better than they can.

[T.G. Oskar]

The Chameleon Prestige Class is found at the Races of Destiny splatbook. It deals with how humans, half-elves and half-orcs, and a new set of races, live and work out.

The Bard doesn't have much skill points (only the Ninja and Scout have equal amount, and only some substitution levels of Changeling Rogue from Races of Eberron have more skill points). What they have is Bardic Knack, which allows them to use about half their class level as a bonus on all skill checks, except untrained ones (don't have the book here, will check later unless someone else is willing to point it out nevermind, ninja'ed!)

Factotum is also a perfect choice, and it really works the "jack of all trades" to the boot. Not only do they have 6 skill points (which already qualifies the character as a decent skill-monkey), but they have all skills as class skills, including and not limited to Autohypnosis, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, Use Psionic Device, Iaijutsu Focus (from Oriental Adventures), Truenaming (from the Truename section of Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords), Control Shape (Monster Manual, for lycanthropes), and just about any skill you can imagine. They also work excellent with Intelligence, which means more skill points.

Chameleon doesn't have as much skill points (about 4-6, actually), and not as much skills (mostly deception skills), but they are the kind of class which grants you the ability to mimic most other characters' abilities (attack like a Fighter, cast spells as if a Cleric or Wizard, wild empathy as a Ranger, or stealthiness as a Rogue with Hide/Move Silently) For a human (or doppleganger, or even changeling if the DM allows it), it's a very flexible class.

As mentioned in the earlier post, Exemplar (from Complete Adventurer) is also a skill monkey, but one that specializes in one skill (and eventually one set of skills) above all others, to the point they become outsiders because of their talent.

For mastery in all skills, one level of Factotum (for all class skills), Able Learner (from Races of Destiny, human or doppleganger only, spend 1 skill point for 1 rank on cross-class skills, 1st level only, and it leads to Chameleon as well), and Jack of all Trades (from Complete Adventurer, allows you to use skills that can't be used untrained even if you don't have a rank) makes for pretty much the ultimate skill-monkey. A Human that gets Able Learner and Nymph's Kiss (1st level feat; grants bonuses with fey but the key is that it grants 1 skill point/level) and Jack-of-All-Trades at level 3, with one level of Factotum and the rest however you like it (the rest as Rogue are superb choices) should cover your skill needs.

As for stats, Int is essential, as well as Dex. As said before, the bulk of skills depend on either Int or Dex. Cha is the third most available, but unless you can work wonders with Charisma (or you're trying to max Use Magic Device), it's usually good to dump and mostly rely on the skill ranks. Str and Wis aren't so widely available, but they have other benefits, and the physical and perception skills key off those stats. And Con sucks for skills, but it's important for HP and Fortitude.

Also, Light Armor and weapons that can use Weapon Finesse. That way, you get more benefit from your Dex than usual.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Ah, I must be mistaken then.
A bard gets more skill points than a rogue does?
Bard gets 2 fewer skill points/level, but the first level spell Improvisation gives them a pool of luck points equal to x4 caster level. You may spend 1/2 caster level luck points to add to an ability check, skill check, or attack roll. Duration of 1 round/caster level.

The Bardic Knack class feature allows you to replace the number of ranks you have in a skill with 1/2 your bard level (rounded up). If the skill is cross class for you, you must have 1 rank in it for this to work, otherwise you can get by with zero ranks.

The Jack of All Trades lets you make untrained skill checks trained. This doesn't work with Bardic Knack by RAW, but a DM could be persuaded.

Either way, you basically get half your CL as virtual skill points, and half your CL as a luck bonus to any skill you want at any time you want. This is more powerful than having 2 more skillpoints per level


I don't have too many books out of the core, would you mind fleshing out for me what a 'chameleon' is and where I'd find it?
Chameleon is a jack of all trades prestige class found online. One of the abilities is to cast divine spells or arcane spells. You can cast both divine and arcane spells at level 6 ish.

This allows you to have Improvisation and a spell called Divine Insight on your spell list. Divine Insight is an hours/level duration 2nd level cleric spell that gives a insight bonus of 5+caster level (max +15) to any one skill check when discharged.

Again, you get a massive skill bonus on demand, instead of having to invest skill ranks.

Another idea is to go Factorum11/Chameleon9, which makes you the most versatile character ever.

[T.G. Oskar]

Bard gets 2 fewer skill points/level, but the first level spell Improvisation gives them a pool of luck points equal to x4 caster level. You may spend 1/2 caster level luck points to add to an ability check, skill check, or attack roll. Duration of 1 round/caster level.

The Bardic Knack class feature allows you to replace the number of ranks you have in a skill with 1/2 your bard level (rounded up). If the skill is cross class for you, you must have 1 rank in it for this to work, otherwise you can get by with zero ranks.

The Jack of All Trades lets you make untrained skill checks trained. This doesn't work with Bardic Knack by RAW, but a DM could be persuaded.

Either way, you basically get half your CL as virtual skill points, and half your CL as a luck bonus to any skill you want at any time you want. This is more powerful than having 2 more skillpoints per level

-snip-

Chameleon is a jack of all trades prestige class found online. One of the abilities is to cast divine spells or arcane spells. You can cast both divine and arcane spells at level 6 ish.

This allows you to have Improvisation and a spell called Divine Insight on your spell list. Divine Insight is an hours/level duration 2nd level cleric spell that gives a insight bonus of 5+caster level (max +15) to any one skill check when discharged.

Again, you get a massive skill bonus on demand, instead of having to invest skill ranks.

Another idea is to go Factorum11/Chameleon9, which makes you the most versatile character ever.

I'd just have to add that you can have both Inspiration and Divine Insight as a Chameleon, without even being a Bard. They can select from any arcane spellcasting list, which includes Bard surprisingly. That also means you can probably UMD it from them, and since they can become craftsmen as well, it's hilarious (you can craft wands of Inspiration at your temporary caster level, and wands of Divine Insight at your temporary caster level)

There are other tricks to make ridiculous, and possibly pre-Epic skill checks with simple tools, actually.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I'd just have to add that you can have both Inspiration and Divine Insight as a Chameleon, without even being a Bard.

That's what I said...

Anyway, Glibness+Improvisation+Divine Insight= +55 bonus @ level 15

You'll have 18 ranks in Bluff, and a Mask of Lies, which gives +5 to bluff among other things, is cheap at 4,500 gp.

This is +78 to bluff altogether. Go wild (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Rather than Human, I would suggest the race (from Races of Ebberon) called a Changeling. They have what is known as a Racial Substitution Level, which allows you to trade out 1d6 sneak attack at 1st level to be able to Take 10 on every social skill.

So, you don't even need to roll, you simply ARE that good at your skills.

Skill Mastery, which you can take at 10th level Rogue, allows you to pick up even MORE skills which you can Take 10 on during stressful situations.

If you really want to expand this further, take 4 levels of the class Warlock from Complete Arcane. This gives you an at-will ranged touch attack (suitable for sneak-attacking with), some useful abilities, and more importantly to your build, the only real way (barring extreme cheese) of being able to Take 10 on Use Magic Device checks, which makes you Batman Lite in addition to an awesome 'skillmonkey'.

They key here is not just to hit obnoxiously high DC's with your skills, but to be literally incapable of failure. You're just that damn good.

[Emy]

You'll have 18 ranks in Bluff, +30 unnamed (glibness), +15 insight (divine insight) +20 competence (guidance of the avatar), +7 luck (improvisation)

This is +90 to bluff altogether. Go wild (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff).

>.>characterlimit

[T.G. Oskar]

...the only real way (barring extreme cheese) of being able to Take 10 on Use Magic Device checks, which makes you Batman Lite in addition to an awesome 'skillmonkey'.

Enter Exemplar with the same ability. Plus +4 to the roll, the fact that because you're going to have good Charisma you can replace your Con with Cha for Fortitude saves, the fact that you gain a Diplomacy-like ability along your Use Magic Device (and nothing says that the Diplomacy ability can't be used in conjunction with a scroll of, say, mass suggestion for example.)

But yeah. Try doing the same with Diplomacy, and get them to be fanatics for you. Or this and do the same. There's the Diplomancer, for goodness sakes!

Or go Hide and turn pretty much invisible. With Hide on Plain Sight, of course. That'd be level 18 or so for most Factotum, if you find the Hide on Plain Sight that's [Ex] instead of [Su].

[FMArthur]

You should also know that Factotum gets to add his class level to any skill check (but only once a day per skill), and additionally gets his Intelligence bonus on every strength- and dexterity-based skill check starting at 3rd level. Since almost all of his abilities are keyed off of Intelligence, this should be quite a large bonus.

[Eldariel]

Enter Exemplar with the same ability. Plus +4 to the roll, the fact that because you're going to have good Charisma you can replace your Con with Cha for Fortitude saves, the fact that you gain a Diplomacy-like ability along your Use Magic Device (and nothing says that the Diplomacy ability can't be used in conjunction with a scroll of, say, mass suggestion for example.)

Use Magic Device gains no benefit of standard Skill Mastery, because Skill Mastery only sidesteps the "distracted or threatened"-clause in Taking 10; you cannot take 10 in Use Magic Device at all, so being able to do it while distracted or threatened is no good.

The only way to be able to take 10 in UMD is to either take 4 levels of Warlock, or 13 (?) levels of Artificer. Both have class features that explicitly state they enable you to take 10 in UMD.

[Coidzor]

Int to attack/damage is a good thing too as long as it doesn't distract from your skillfulness overmuch.

[Curmudgeon]

If you really want to be skillful, then you're going to need Skill Mastery, the Rogue special ability. This is a huge boost to the skill ranks you need to be able to reliably accomplish set DCs, because you can always "take 10" and never need to worry about rolling anything in the 1-9 range. The Savvy Rogue feat (Complete Scoundrel) improves Skill Mastery so you can "take 12" instead. That's the equivalent of +11 ranks in every skill mastered because of bypassing any possibility of low rolls.

For a game where you're going to be in combat frequently, think about multiclassing with Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric). They get 6 + INT skill points/level, and all Knowledges as class skills. Then add Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion) and boost all 6 Knowledges relating to creature types; you'll get a bonus on attack and damage vs. everything. Clerics can also use the Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) spell to boost any skill check by +20, giving you early access to the maximum benefit from Knowledge Devotion, or any other skill check you really want to do well at.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Beguiler base class in PH2 makes an exceptional skillmonkey, and its spell selection makes it the master of handling noncombat situations. It will probably get at least as many skill points as a given Rogue, since it's entirely Int-based. Take Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon to get early access to the next level of spells, which helps your Advanced Learning selection. Take one level of Mindbender at your 6th character level, which gives you Telepathy and further improves the level of spells you can gain with Advanced Learning. That will also qualify you for the feat Mindsight in Lords of Madness (page 126), which is almost unfair. If you're using stealth you'll also want the feat Darkstalker in Lords of Madness, an absolute must-have for anyone using Hide and Move Silently.

It's also extremely useful in combat, especially if you get decent spells via Advanced Learning. Assuming you get Versatile Spellcaster at level 1 or 3, and Mindbender at 6, you can pick a 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 9th level spell at each respective level. I would personally pick Ray of Stupidity (3), Shadow Form (7), Greater Shadow Conjuration (11), Superior Invisibility (15 or 19), and Greater Shadow Evocation (15 or 19). Between spells like Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Solid Fog, situational automatic-win spells like Ray of Stupidity (against animals), Silence (readied targeting a point in space near an enemy spellcaster), and others, and dealing tons of nonlethal damage with the Whelm line of spells, you'll never be left without something to do in any situation.

[Draz74]

Most of this advice, while good, assumes you'll have access to non-Core material. If you're stuck with Core, then yes, either Rogue or Bard is your best option. Actually, Rogue/Bard is probably best; take your first level or two in Rogue, then switch to Bard, which doesn't get you quite as many skill points but gives you class features that are less combat-focused, more utilitarian and flexible.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Most of this advice, while good, assumes you'll have access to non-Core material. If you're stuck with Core, then yes, either Rogue or Bard is your best option. Actually, Rogue/Bard is probably best; take your first level or two in Rogue, then switch to Bard, which doesn't get you quite as many skill points but gives you class features that are less combat-focused, more utilitarian and flexible.

Core, it's best to go straight Rogue, because it's the only way, Core, to get Skill Mastery, which means it is literally impossible to roll a nat 1.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Core, it's best to go straight Rogue, because it's the only way, Core, to get Skill Mastery, which means it is literally impossible to roll a nat 1.

Note that the last level of rogue is inferior to taking one level of Fighter.

[DragoonWraith]

Unless I'm missing something, Skill Mastery just lets you take-10 when under pressure, and you could get it at Rogue 10 if you wanted...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Unless I'm missing something, Skill Mastery just lets you take-10 when under pressure, and you could get it at Rogue 10 if you wanted...

Which you can't get if you only take one or two levels of Rogue.

However, the point is that you can get it multiple times. First at 10th, then at 13th, 16, and then 19th. You'd have literally ALL your skills able to Take 10 on.