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Theolotus
2009-06-26, 04:36 PM
A metal weapon that deals damage to the rust monster corrodes immediately.

Does this allow attacks against the rust monster to get a reflex save? The text allows a save for attacks FROM the monster, but does not list if attacks AGAINST the monster get the same save.

I am wanting to throw some of these critters at my players tonight, and would be gratefull for any feedback. Thanks!

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-26, 04:40 PM
Magic items get the usual save, non-magic items still don't get a save.

Rust monsters are the reason only stupid adventurers neglect to carry a wooden club.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-26, 04:42 PM
Their also another way for the druid to win.

Ridureyu
2009-06-26, 04:52 PM
Tiny Rust Monster hatchlings in fragile wooden boxes make great projectile weapons.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-26, 04:56 PM
Against the wrong party, rust monsters are deadly, debilitating, & humiliating. Monks & casters can deal with them effectively, but the other guys better bring a stick.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-26, 04:57 PM
Magic items get the usual save, non-magic items still don't get a save.

Rust monsters are the reason only stupid adventurers neglect to carry a wooden club.

And another way the Devs nerf melee classes while letting Wizards be GOD.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-26, 04:58 PM
And another way the Devs nerf melee classes while letting Wizards be GOD.

Yes, that's totally why they put them in D&D in the 80s. (70s?)

There was a D&D before 3.X.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-06-26, 05:11 PM
And another way the Devs nerf melee classes while letting Wizards be GOD.

No, no, no. First you let the party encounter rust monsters. Then you let the party encounter monsters resistant to magic like say a flesh golem.

Pyron
2009-06-26, 05:15 PM
No, no, no. First you let the party encounter rust monsters. Then you let the party encounter monsters resistant to magic like say a flesh golem.

Or you let the party encounter couple of Rust Monster/Half-Golems.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-26, 05:22 PM
Or you let the party encounter couple of Rust Monster/Half-Golems.Orb of Fire.

shadzar
2009-06-26, 05:25 PM
No, no, no. First you let the party encounter rust monsters. Then you let the party encounter monsters resistant to magic like say a flesh golem.

Rust monster were the fighter enemy, and housecats were the bane of casters....

Asheram
2009-06-26, 05:44 PM
I figure the worst possible outcome Ever in a dungeon, would be if you encountered a colony of Tuckers Kobolds with a rust monster farm

Theolotus
2009-06-26, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the help! I think I'll mix in a gelatinous cube to work over the spellcasters. It seems like a great fit because they dont digest metal. the suggestions to "double up" on what multiple members of the party will hate is teh W1|\|!!!

Thanks for the ideas!

herrhauptmann
2009-06-26, 11:46 PM
If you reward players for listening, you should say something like "Wow, these everbright and blueshine enchantments are pretty cool." Next time the game session ends in town with a magic shop.
Let them have a week or whatever to plan their purchases, then midway through the session after that, throw the rusties at them.
Anybody who bought the enchantments gets a little XP for listening and paying attention to the DM. In addition to the whole 'not getting their weapons eaten.'

Knaight
2009-06-27, 12:42 AM
Rust Monsters were mildly irritating until I introduced one of my players to DROD. DROD is a puzzle game where you control a guy with a sword, kill enemies, etc. all in very small turns where every turn counts. One of the games has something called Oremites in it. Think about a rust monster swarm carpet. While your trying to fight other enemies with natural weapons. Yeah.

Serpentine
2009-06-27, 12:56 AM
How about an Adventurer Bane Rust Monster? Rusting and Mordenkainen’s disjunction :smallwink: :smallamused:

Knaight
2009-06-27, 01:05 AM
If your using bullet proof glass for a GM screen go for it, otherwise its not advisable.

Adumbration
2009-06-27, 01:08 AM
I shudder to think what a rust monster would do to my warforged wizard...

Coidzor
2009-06-27, 02:38 AM
Well, I think most DMs would be merciful enough to allow you a saving throw due to being magic.

Kyouhen
2009-06-27, 02:52 AM
Let's not forget the Rust Monster's big brother, the Annihilator. It's a Rust Monster that lives in the Underdark and instead of rusting (you'll love this) it disintegrates! Everything!

Kosjsjach
2009-06-27, 02:56 AM
I shudder to think what a rust monster would do to my warforged wizard...

That right there raises an interesting question. What happens when a warforged encounters a rust monster?
Does it eat their skin? Does it do CON damage? Can they even get it replaced?

BobVosh
2009-06-27, 03:07 AM
Yes, that's totally why they put them in D&D in the 80s. (70s?)

There was a D&D before 3.X.

Ah yes the first editions. What was the saying back then? Oh yes "You protect the wizard until level 5, then he protects YOU"

The White Knight
2009-06-28, 08:18 PM
Today, my DM decided to throw a homebrewed monstrous scorpion/rust monster hybrid (large monstrous scorpion with rust monster's rust attack and death throes that created a cloud of rust once slain). Lost my Adamantine battleaxe AND full plate in that one. Bye bye character wealth.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-28, 09:49 PM
Today, my DM decided to throw a homebrewed monstrous scorpion/rust monster hybrid (large monstrous scorpion with rust monster's rust attack and death throes that created a cloud of rust once slain). Lost my Adamantine battleaxe AND full plate in that one. Bye bye character wealth.

Blueshine armor and everbright weapon. I can't stress these enough. They're only about 2000 for each enchantment, totally worth it.

Recaiden
2009-06-28, 09:53 PM
Let's not forget the Rust Monster's big brother, the Annihilator. It's a Rust Monster that lives in the Underdark and instead of rusting (you'll love this) it disintegrates! Everything!

How about the Umbral Blot? A sphere of annihilation, but giant. And also alive and out to kill you.

Tar Palantir
2009-06-28, 09:56 PM
I bought Blueshine for my warforged artificer, as I convinced my DM that since it makes the armor immune to acid, and I was the armor, I was immune to acid. Still haven't looked up the RAW for that particular combination, but that's my character for Tomb of Horrors, so it's not like I'm unjustified in my paranoia.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-28, 10:32 PM
I bought Blueshine for my warforged artificer, as I convinced my DM that since it makes the armor immune to acid, and I was the armor, I was immune to acid. Still haven't looked up the RAW for that particular combination, but that's my character for Tomb of Horrors, so it's not like I'm unjustified in my paranoia.

Awesome.
I'm envious. My last DM would've made die without a save right there. Even if my armored skin survived, the rest of me wouldn't.

The White Knight
2009-06-28, 11:38 PM
Blueshine armor and everbright weapon. I can't stress these enough. They're only about 2000 for each enchantment, totally worth it.

Yeahhhhh, I know that only now after having read this thread. It was a freshly rolled character though, and I was pretty hard up for funds.

I feel like my computer just died after not buying a warranty or something, haha.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-28, 11:48 PM
Let's not forget the Rust Monster's big brother, the Annihilator. It's a Rust Monster that lives in the Underdark and instead of rusting (you'll love this) it disintegrates! Everything!

The cousin of that would be the Platinum Horror. A CR 11 with a CL 20th Disjunction at will.


The person responsible for that abomination needs to be shot Executioner-style.

Quietus
2009-06-29, 12:41 AM
How about the Umbral Blot? A sphere of annihilation, but giant. And also alive and out to kill you.

I fought one of those before. We Imprison'ed it and left. Quickly.

Mando Knight
2009-06-29, 01:03 AM
The cousin of that would be the Platinum Horror. A CR 11 with a CL 20th Disjunction at will.


The person responsible for that abomination needs to be shot Executioner-style.

How does one add an at-will 9th level SLA and not have a CR of 21+ ?

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-29, 01:11 AM
How does one add an at-will 9th level SLA and not have a CR of 21+ ?

EXACTLY MY POINT!

Kylarra
2009-06-29, 01:26 AM
I thought that was the Adamantine Horror ... and that it also had implosion and disintegrate at-will...

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-29, 01:32 AM
I thought that was the Adamantine Horror ... and that it also had implosion and disintegrate at-will...

Well, you made me curious enough to check.



Spell-Like Abilities: At will—disintegrate, implosion,
Mordenkainen’s disjunction. Caster level 14th; save DC 15 +
spell level.

You would be right. Adamantine is the borked CR 11. Note the CL is too low for two of the abilities.

Kylarra
2009-06-29, 02:07 AM
glad to know that I'm not completely insane in thinking that it was the other one. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-29, 02:09 AM
glad to know that I'm not completely insane in thinking that it was the other one. :smalltongue:

Still, its an even bigger reason to be afraid of the bastards. A single Adamantine Horror can solo a city! Easily!

Zeful
2009-06-29, 02:11 AM
Let's not forget the Rust Monster's big brother, the Annihilator. It's a Rust Monster that lives in the Underdark and instead of rusting (you'll love this) it disintegrates! Everything!

Living. Disjunction.

Jair Barik
2009-06-29, 02:40 AM
I made a template for turning regular creatures into rust monster variants. Rust monster giant octopus is funny, especially in settings with submarines.

Swordguy
2009-06-29, 03:24 AM
I shudder to think what a rust monster would do to my warforged wizard...

If your skin made of ferrous metal? Then it rusts and eats you.

Learn to run away or throw stuff at it from a distance.

On a side note, I SO very hoped that I'd see a rust monster eat the kid during Full Metal Alchemist. And I very definitely tell my players that if they insist on playing a Warforged outside of Eberron in my D&D game (I run Tolkeinesque games), Rust Monsters will be common there, as either a natural predator or a created counter-weapon against Warforged. So far, nobody's made one after hearing that. :smallamused:

lord_khaine
2009-06-29, 04:43 AM
The major warforget components are wood, stone and metal, meaning that they just take a bit of damage from rust monsters.

its somewhere in the FAQ as i recall.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-29, 04:52 AM
There's also the Rust Dragon and the Pyroclastic Dragon.

Beleriphon
2009-06-29, 09:04 AM
Living. Disjunction.

Lets not forget the Living Disjunction/Disintegrate. Remember kids, you to can stack together spells to create living spells (BTW, Living Maximized Disjunction, IRC its CR 23 or so)

Kyouhen
2009-06-29, 09:30 AM
How about the Umbral Blot? A sphere of annihilation, but giant. And also alive and out to kill you.

Yeah, but the blot's got a CR of 32. Annihilator's only 15. You can throw the annihilator at the party much sooner. :smalltongue: It doesn't help that the Annihilator can track either.

And the horrors were the metal bugs with chainsaws right? Love those things. :smalltongue:

Fitz10019
2009-06-29, 09:40 AM
Would blueshine protect Drow armor from the effects of sunlight? I don't have any Drow books on hand, but the decay of the armor was described to me as 'rusting away.'

Recaiden
2009-06-29, 10:50 AM
Yeah, but the blot's got a CR of 32. Annihilator's only 15. You can throw the annihilator at the party much sooner. :smalltongue: It doesn't help that the Annihilator can track either.

And the horrors were the metal bugs with chainsaws right? Love those things. :smalltongue:

Yup, got to love clockwork horrors. Although the adamantine horror just isn't fair.

Recaiden
2009-06-29, 10:51 AM
Yeah, but the blot's got a CR of 32. Annihilator's only 15. You can throw the annihilator at the party much sooner. :smalltongue: It doesn't help that the Annihilator can track either.

And the horrors were the metal bugs with chainsaws right? Love those things. :smalltongue:

Yup, got to love clockwork horrors. Although the adamantine horror just isn't fair.:smallwink:

Kyouhen
2009-06-29, 11:12 AM
Yup, got to love clockwork horrors. Although the adamantine horror just isn't fair.:smallwink:

Who says they have to be fair? Establish that there's a group of horrors wandering around in your campaign setting and when one of the players gets a little uppity have them bump into the adamantine and lose all their good stuff. :smalltongue:

AstralFire
2009-06-29, 11:15 AM
Who says they have to be fair?

The CR. If you want to *****-slap a player with stats, you can throw anything together in 10 seconds.

The Gilded Duke
2009-06-29, 11:32 AM
The really fun thing about rust monsters is that "Rust" is an extraordinary special attack. Which means if you can polymorph into Aberrations you can then use Rust against your enemies. If you are playing an Egoist you don't need to do anything special to turn into Aberrations.

Also a druid with Abberation Wild Shape can turn into Rust Monsters and do the same thing.

Random832
2009-06-29, 11:53 AM
Does this allow attacks against the rust monster to get a reflex save? The text allows a save for attacks FROM the monster, but does not list if attacks AGAINST the monster get the same save.

My take:

A reflex save doesn't make sense in this situation... but... a reflex save doesn't make a whole lot of sense regardless. It should be a fortitude save. Which is fluff, because all three saves are the same for magic items.

I'd allow the save. But in answer to your question, it's not allowed as written.

Kyouhen
2009-06-29, 12:08 PM
The CR. If you want to *****-slap a player with stats, you can throw anything together in 10 seconds.

Oh, you don't kill them with them. Use them like a super powered rust monster. Pretty sure it said in the description of the clockwork horrors that they pretty much only have an interest in metal. Have the adamantine pop up and rob the players of everything they have. If they try to defend themselves have it blast whatever weapons and armour they're using. When it's done looting let it scurry off on it's merry little way. :smalltongue:

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-29, 12:55 PM
Magic items get the usual save, non-magic items still don't get a save.

Rust monsters are the reason only stupid adventurers neglect to carry a wooden club.

Another reason to carry clubs -- they are the most efficient throwing weapons in D&D 3.5

Last time we fought a rust monster it had made its lair inside a huge pile of gold and platinum pieces that we wanted to loot from a dungeon. Our frenzied berserker stripped butt naked and crawled through the money pile looking for this thing, armed with nothing but a sharpened stick clenched in his teeth. The killing was swift and brutal.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-29, 03:32 PM
Another reason to carry clubs -- they are the most efficient throwing weapons in D&D 3.5

Last time we fought a rust monster it had made its lair inside a huge pile of gold and platinum pieces that we wanted to loot from a dungeon. Our frenzied berserker stripped butt naked and crawled through the money pile looking for this thing, armed with nothing but a sharpened stick clenched in his teeth. The killing was swift and brutal.

Talenta and Xen"Dirk Boomerangs beat clubs any day of the week. Why? A Daze effect with a Save DC based on damage dealt. Positively nothing can make that save if you know what you are doing.

Optimystik
2009-06-29, 03:55 PM
Their also another way for the druid to win.

As if they needed more...


Orb of Fire.

QFT

RandomNPC
2009-06-29, 05:36 PM
my group had a warforged wizard with slippers of spider climb run down a gorge when kobolds with stone weapons riding rust monsters showed up.

I'm fond of the anihilators, but i'd probably never actually use them.

The Horrors? in a few weeks. My groups after a series of artifacts, and they keep asking about the one aligned to constructs. Yeay for annoying the DM into horrific mechanical doom. It'll make them smile to get the artifact.

Heliomance
2009-06-29, 07:13 PM
Orb of Fire.

There are DMs that don't houserule that to be Evocation/SR: Yes? It's clearly in the wrong school, for what they do, the Orb line should not be Conjuration.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-29, 07:20 PM
Would blueshine protect Drow armor from the effects of sunlight? I don't have any Drow books on hand, but the decay of the armor was described to me as 'rusting away.'

I haven't actually seen anything regarding the decay of drow equipment in the sunlight outside of a Forgotten Realms novel. And even that stopped in the drow books by Elaine Cunningham (where Gromph Baenre's daughter travels with Rashemi berserker)

Optimystik
2009-06-29, 07:37 PM
There are DMs that don't houserule that to be Evocation/SR: Yes? It's clearly in the wrong school, for what they do, the Orb line should not be Conjuration.

Why? An Orb is basically throwing a volatile miniature elemental at your foe (hence the ranged touch attack roll)

Heliomance
2009-06-29, 07:41 PM
Find me an example of these so-called "volatile elementals" and I might believe you. What you're actually doing is evoking a lump of elemental matter from the planes and throwing it. An instantaneous Conjuration effect is not magical once conjured. The only element that it makes even the slightest amount of sense that you could throw a coherent non-magical ball of is acid, and even that's hard to credit. Force and sonic are totally incomprehensible.

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-29, 07:48 PM
Why? An Orb is basically throwing a volatile miniature elemental at your foe (hence the ranged touch attack roll)

An orb is creating a ball of fire to deal damage to the enemy. In what way is this different from, say, Flaming Sphere? Or Fire Ball? It seems we have three spells that conjure fire into a round shape and project it towards the enemy, but for no adequately explored reason one of them is an entirely different school.



The only element that it makes even the slightest amount of sense that you could throw a coherent non-magical ball of is acid


Of course, if you really want to do Rules As Written, the actual effect of the spell is to conjure a ball of acid that deals fire/sonic/cold/plaid/electric damage (since the spell description is "Functions exactly as the summon acid orb spell, except for the damage type")

GreatWyrmGold
2009-06-29, 07:50 PM
That right there raises an interesting question. What happens when a warforged encounters a rust monster?
Does it eat their skin? Does it do CON damage? Can they even get it replaced?

I remember reading somewhere that it dealt damage like Rusting Grasp did.

Edit: This thread is now in the Thread Necrmancy Danger Zone.

Edit 2:

The really fun thing about rust monsters is that "Rust" is an extraordinary special attack. Which means if you can polymorph into Aberrations you can then use Rust against your enemies. If you are playing an Egoist you don't need to do anything special to turn into Aberrations.

Also a druid with Abberation Wild Shape can turn into Rust Monsters and do the same thing.
Aren't Rust Monsters magical beasts?
:checks:
Huh, rust monsters are weirder than I thought.


Of course, if you really want to do Rules As Written, the actual effect of the spell is to conjure a ball of acid that deals fire/sonic/cold/plaid/electric damage (since the spell description is "Functions exactly as the summon acid orb spell, except for the damage type")
RAW FOR FLUFF?!?!
Yikes.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-29, 08:04 PM
Find me an example of these so-called "volatile elementals" and I might believe you. What you're actually doing is evoking a lump of elemental matter from the planes and throwing it. An instantaneous Conjuration effect is not magical once conjured. The only element that it makes even the slightest amount of sense that you could throw a coherent non-magical ball of is acid, and even that's hard to credit. Force and sonic are totally incomprehensible.

I've yet to see an Elemental Plane of Sound or Force, sir. Acid is justified by the Elemental Plane of Earth (Fun Fact: Not even the most powerful acid in existence can burn through solid stone, though it will clean the organic materials off of the stone). Electricity is Air, Cold is Water, and Fire is obvious.

Is it really so hard to believe that the Orb of Cold spell conjures a block of ice, or that you are throwing semi-solid napalm when you use an Orb of Fire? Sonic and Force make no sense at all (though it could be a Thunderstone-type effect for Sonic), that much I agree with.

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-29, 08:13 PM
RAW FOR FLUFF?!?!
Yikes.

It's not fluff. It's the ENTIRE SPELL DESCRIPTION. Here, if no copyright lawyers appear, I'll copy the entire entry for the spell.



ORB OF FIRE
Conjuration (Creation) [Fire]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4

This spell functions like orb of acid,
except that it deals fire damage. In
addition, a creature struck by an orb
of fire must make a Fortitude save or
be dazed for 1 round instead of being
sickened.

Mnymosene
2009-06-29, 08:15 PM
Fun Fact: Not even the most powerful acid in existence can burn through solid stone, though it will clean the organic materials off of the stone

Depends on the stone, no? Why do marble buildings and statues suffer in acid rain? :smallsmile: