[4e] Bard/Paladin

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've been pondering another 4e build and I'm wondering how to assemble it best. The idea is instead of starting as an actual paladin, to start as a bard and multiclass into paladin. I've pondered several setups for this but I don't really know what I'm doing. Here's what I know the build needs:

Bard is the main class, taking the Virtue of Valor.
Soldier of the Faith is a required feat, meaning that the build needs to at some point have 13 Strength and 13 Charisma.

Other than this, I don't really know what else to do with it. Here's some of the other things I've been pondering, if it helps any:

I'd like his name to be Geiseric, after the Vandal king who led the Sack of Rome.
I want him to worship Bahamut.
I'm thinking bastard sword would be the best weapon for him.
Should I stick with the bard's proficiencies? Or should I take proficiency feats for things like heavy shields and scale or plate mail?
What race should he be? Dragonborn and Half-Elf sound like the best choices, but I've never been too fond of dragonborn, despite their coolness. They're just not as handsome.
What paragon path should he take? I'm interested in the Blessed Psalmist paragon path that they just released in Dragon, as well as the Son of Mercy in the Mercykillers article. If he turns out to be a dragonborn, then the Scion of Arkhosia looks very exciting. Who doesn't want to be able to fly?!
What epic destiny should he take? Demigod is still the undisputed king of the destinies, but it seems so ho-hum now since any optimized build and their dog uses Demigod. Punisher of the Gods looks interesting, as does the Feyliege, but I'm not certain of their efficacy.
I want him to have traces of semi-divine heritage, taking the Deva Heritage feat.
What skills should he invest in? Arcana is a given, since all bards get it, but what other skills should he take? Furthermore, what skill from the paladin's set should he take training in when he takes Soldier of the Faith? I'm pondering Heal, since I'd feel naked if I had Ritual Caster and couldn't cast Raise Dead, but Bards get access to all the Charisma-based skills, which is something this character needs to have a lot of anyway.
What other feats should I invest in? I was thinking of Mounted Combat, just for the spectacle of a knight in shining armor atop a horse or something even greater, but then again unless you're Small mounts aren't that effective in the traditional places adventurers frequent, like ruined temples and underground caves.
What kind of backstory would make the most sense for a character such as this? I'm looking at the Scales of War backgrounds and wondering if maybe one of those would be a good place to start. If so, which one, and how would it all fit together to tell this character's story.

Thank you for your time and assistance. I'd really like to get a character like this made for the next time I play 4e. :smallsmile:

[Tengu_temp]

Half-elf is probably the better race here anyway - as a valorous bard you base on cha and con, and they get bonuses to that. With 13 strength there is no reason not to take scale armor proficiency (your dex and int will probably be too low to benefit from light armor), but I'm not completely sure is plate and heavy shield proficiency worth having 15 strength, which is otherwise useless to you - the best is to start with 13-14 strength and get those feats at paragon/epic levels, I think, as well as plate specialization. As long as you can't use heavy shields, you might consider using a fullblade instead of a bastard sword - the extra damage and high crit property is worth more than 1 AC for a non-main defender.

That's from the top of my head, I might give more detailed info later. I can already tell you that this will be a pretty feat-starved build.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Whenever I hear fullblade though, I think of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/500px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg

I do not want this. I want something more like this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPGArt/41.jpg

[erikun]

You need STR 13 anyways for the Paladin multiclass, so I'd recommend Scale Proficiency, too. DEX and INT are not going to be very high - you definitely aren't going to be boosting them each 4 levels - so you'll want some good heavy armor.

CON and CHA are important, as is the STR 13, making WIS a dump stat. Lay on Hands is the only think the Paladin uses WIS for anyways, so it isn't much of a loss. You'll probably want to train in Insight, though, to make up for the loss.

You might be interested in putting a few points into DEX. DEX 15 is required for Scale Specialization, +1 AC and removing the movement penality. Plus, DEX helps with your initiative, and with Acrobatics checks (if you DM calls for them, or grapples). You'll need a minimum of DEX 13 at first level to get Scale Specialization in epic tier. It's not a priority, but something to keep in mind.

Half-Elf benefits both CON and CHA, gives bonuses to Diplomancy and Insight (two skills you'll probably use with the character), and allows you to choose one at-will from another class. The last is nice if you want to splash some Warlock/Sorcerer, or add another Paladin power to your list. Dragonborn will give you a better 1/encounter power (usually) and some truely impressive healing surge values, but probably doesn't mesh with your character concept quite as well. Still, there's something to be said about the noble dragon skald/holy warrior.

As Tengu mentioned, your shield will only be giving a +1 AC/+1 Reflex, meaning you shouldn't have too much problem switching to a two-handed weapon. Giving that most of your powers will likely have [W], the extra damage can be significant. Still, leaders are more concerned about hitting than dealing damage, and the slight defense boost will keep you around that 5% longer. I don't see much advantage of a bastard sword over the longsword, but if you feel it's necessary for the character, go right ahead.

I'm afraid I don't have DDI access, so can't really comment on your Paragon choices. It will probably be awhile before you get there, though, so you can hold off on that decision for a bit. :smallamused:

[Mando Knight]

Bah. The sword in the picture to follow is a real fullblade.

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/cg/75.png

[Tengu_temp]

CON and CHA are important, as is the STR 13, making WIS a dump stat. Lay on Hands is the only think the Paladin uses WIS for anyways, so it isn't much of a loss. You'll probably want to train in Insight, though, to make up for the loss.

Actually, many paladin powers use wisdom for extra effects.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Bah. The sword in the picture to follow is a real fullblade.

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/cg/75.png

I dunno...no offense but that one looks just as fugly as the Buster Sword. I was hoping for something more like this, in platinum.

http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs15/f/2007/094/f/b/Epic_Warriors_Sword_by_stonewurks.jpg

[DSCrankshaw]

You'll probably want decent Wisdom. Bards can benefit from Wisdom as well, so there's no reason to dump it. What you'll probably want is something along the lines of
Str 13 Con 15 Dex 10 Int 8 Wis 15 Cha 18
The problem is that with a dumped Dex, you're not going to be getting any heavy blade feats. You probably couldn't get them anyway, unless you put a good bit more into Str than this build, but it is a shame.

For feats, let's see. Melee training (Cha)'s a must. Combat Virtuoso's usually a no brainer, but don't bother unless you want some Str paladin powers or your half-elf dilettante needs something other than Charisma. You'll probably want Versatile Master once you hit 11. Other than that, grab the Paladin multi-class feats and some armor feats and enjoy.

[Tengu_temp]

It's so obvious that I feel a bit silly typing it, but remember to take Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades). The lack of Heavy Blade Opportunity can be swallowed, since you should take Melee Training (Charisma) anyway, which is only slightly worse, and Improved Critical is not so crucial for a character whose focus isn't damage, anyway, not to mention that few campaigns reach epic levels.

I'd suggest taking Virtue of Prescience and focusing on cha and wis instead of cha and con, but unfortunately most of its powers work only with ranged weapons.

[Mando Knight]

I dunno...no offense but that one looks just as fugly as the Buster Sword.

And that's the point of the Fullblade. Giant, ugly sword that tells the other guy, "Don't mess with me if you want to have an open-casket funeral."

Definitely use the Half-Elf Dilettante to get one of the Paladin Charisma at-wills... though IMO they aren't as neat as the strength ones...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And that's the point of the Fullblade. Giant, ugly sword that tells the other guy, "Don't mess with me if you want to have an open-casket funeral."

Definitely use the Half-Elf Dilettante to get one of the Paladin Charisma at-wills... though IMO they aren't as neat as the strength ones...

I'll agree with you that the CHA based at-wills for paladin aren't so glamorous, but Holy Strike is rendered all but obsolete with the Sunblade and Radiant weapons.

I'm not looking for a giant, ugly sword that tells the other guy, "Don't mess with me if you want to have an open-casket funeral" though. I'm looking for something honorable. Something elegant. Something that tells the other guy "RIDE NOW! RIDE NOW! RIDE! RIDE FOR RUIN AND THE WORLD ENDING! DEATH! DEAATH! FORTH EORLINGAS!"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This rudimentary build was suggested to me by psk20 over at the WOTC boards:


Hi all,

The point of this build is to focus equally on the control and leader roles. I call it control, but in this build it sometimes looks a bit like defending. Because I'm not focused purely on one role, it may not appear as optimised as some (but really, I'm just optimising according to multiple criteria, one of which may or may not be an aesthetic one :smalltongue:). There are options that I left out that might have made the character a better controller or leader but I felt that they came at too high a price in other areas.

This particular build has gone through a number of versions, including changing paragon path a couple of times, and even going through a stage using a greatspear and frost-cheese rather than a glaive. Currently, it is making the most of the paladin multiclass and the Blessed Psalmist paragon path using a songblade glaive as an implement for bard and paladin powers.

The build has a number of options for repelling enemy entry into and movement through adjacent squares. When an enemy moves into an adjacent square, the build can make a Eldritch Strike OA. The build also has several other means of expending immediate actions to impede foes adjacent to it - Battle Awareness (invalidating most melee attacks via eldritch strike if it hits) and White Lotus Riposte/White Lotus Master Riposte. Used judiciously, Foolhardy Fighting gives the bard a means to invalidate an enemy's attack once per encounter also.

Divine challenge grants a mark to a single target for an encounter, giving them a reason to attack you. In addition I've included a power swap to grab the paladin encounter 17 power Hand of the Gods. I'm ambivalent about whether it is truly worth the feat, but it gives you another mark and a healthy buff to hit (+2 at para, +3 at epic). If marked enemies are melee oriented, they are likely to provoke an OA from polearm gamble trying to reach you. If ranged, you can keep your DC on them using cutting words - receiving another free cutting words and another slide 2 when the enemy attacks you, via white lotus master riposte.

Another good strategy for this build is to keep your ranged strikers and controllers behind and adjacent to you. With a little bit of work and creative use of terrain (remember, you can use their zones and walls to your mutual advantage), you can form an effective second line of defense. Even if enemies make their way around you, you have the means to mitigate their first attack with Chord of Resilience and whisk your ally to safety the next round with Moment of Escape, and/or smack the foe back to the defender the next round.

If enemies don't attack you or the back-liners, you will still be an effective member of the party (hell, you've already helped the back-liners get their jobs done unmolested!). Although not focussed purely on the leader role, you have the capability to buff and heal very effectively - with a bunch of ways of granting saving throws and heals.

For a rather nasty nova, this build can break out the Blessed Psalmist daily power "Brilliant Symphony", giving enemies hit (it's a close burst 10!) a choice between being stunned (save ends) or dominated. Move to an advantageous position and have those who are dominated run or charge adjacent to you - this will provoke a lot of eldritch strike attacks! The next round you can follow it up with any number of combinations - one particularly juicy one may be to use an action point to blow Menacing Thunder - buffed by your Radiant Song class feature of course - with a +3 to hit from action surge and a +2 from combat advantage (everyone's still dominated), following it with Corona of Blinding Radiance (which is a weapon attack vs. reflex and you still have +2 from CA, so is also likely to hit most targets too). Enemies will take a bucketload of radiant damage, will be blinded and otherwise very vulnerable to your allies' attacks. As they will all be blinded, you can then move away with your move action unmolested.

I am waiting for divine power to see if there is anything that works well for a multiclass paladin. Once we see the feats and powers available in that book, this build may change again somewhat.

I'm hoping that AV2 will include a superior glaive (my DM has houseruled one, lucky me!) and perhaps a more ideal songblade for this build.

I haven't included a progression past 20, but Fatesinger is extremely powerful (you get 3.5 uses of majestic word per encounter so anything that buffs that class feature further is excellent). I'd also recommend Virtuoso of misfortune to further enhance the nova round - regardless of whether enemies hit by your Brilliant Symphony opt to be stunned (save ends) or dominated and blinded by your Corona on the following round (save ends), the power will be a death-knell. That said, the paladin 25 daily power Exalted Retribution is incredibly powerful for an eldritch strike polearm user (even though it is strength-based), as your opportunity attacks are quite likely to prevent the target from attacking effectively. Taking this would rob you of Corona, however.

Anyway, onto the build.

Race: Half-elf
Class: Bard, MC paladin, MC fighter.
Paragon Path: Blessed Psalmist (Class Acts: Bard article)

Starting Stats: Str 13, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18.
Level 20 Stats: Str 15, Con 20, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 23.

Ability Score Progression
Charisma and Constitution every time, except at 8 (Charisma and Strength in order to qualify for Polearm Gamble).

Feat Progression
1: Soldier of the Faith
2: Focused Expertise (Heavy Blade)
4: Improved Majestic Word (will be retrained to Polearm Gamble at 11))
6: Battle Awareness
8: White Lotus Riposte
10: Glaive Proficiency
11: Versatile Master
11: trade Novice Power for Polearm Gamble
12: Master White Lotus Riposte
14: Majestic Rescue
16: Action Surge
18: Novice Power
20: Acolyte Power

Starting Powers: Guiding Strike (AW), Cutting Words (AW), Shout of Triumph(E), Eldritch Strike (E; dilettante), Verse of Triumph (D).

Power Progression beyond level 1:
2: Moment of Escape (Util)
3: Song of the New Dawn (E)
5: Satire of Bravery (D)
6: Chord of Resilience (Util)
7: Scorpion's Claw Strike (E)
9: Thunder Blade (D)
10: Saviour's Song (Util)
11: Song of the Radiant Dawn (Psalmist E)
12: Psalm of Succor (Psalmist U)
13: trade Song of the New Dawn (E3) for Foolhardy Fighting (E13)
15: trade Verse of Triumph (D1) for Menacing Thunder (D15)
16: Song of Sublime Snowfall (Util)
17: trade Shout of Triumph (E1) for Song of Summons (E17)
18: trade Song of Summons (E17) for Hand of the Gods (Paladin E17)
19: trade Satire of Bravery (D5) for Irresistable Dance (E19)
20: trade Irresistable Dance (E19) for Corona of Blinding Radiance (Paladin E19)
20: Brilliant Symphony (Psalmist D)

Useful Items
At level 1: longsword (upgrade to harsh songblade asap), light shield, chain armour
level 10: Any songblade glaive
Rushing Cleats (feet 7, Adventurer's Vault, increases melee slide by 1).
Helm of Opportunity (level 4 or 14, Adventurer's Vault)
Anything that buffs your ability to lead (e.g. healer's sash)
While this build looks very tempting, there are some things I was wondering about tweaking for it. I'm not really interested in glaives, since they don't seem very knightly. psk20 suggested just using a plain old longsword, so I don't have to spend a feat. Besides, longswords have long been the traditional knightly and paladinly weapon. I'm also looking for a place to tuck Deva Heritage, which has no prerequisites other than being a living humanoid, and Armor Proficiency (Scale). I'm also pondering sticking Mounted Combat in there somewhere so I can charge into battle on a rage drake or a wyvern, which'd be totally awesome for a soldier of the Platinum Dragon!

Also, this build doesn't extend to epic levels. I'm wondering what destinies would work here. Fatesinger was reccomended to me, and I know that Mythic Sovereign is pretty interesting too, as well as destinies like Punisher of the Gods and Feyliege. I know Demigod seems like the natural choice, but as I said, so many builds use Demigod that it's lost its luster.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, here's MY attempt at a build. Please note that I have no freakin' clue what the hell I'm doing:

Race: Half-elf
Class: Bard, MC paladin.
Paragon Path: Blessed Psalmist (Class Acts: Bard article)
Epic Destiny: ???

Starting Stats: Str 13, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18.

Ability Score Progression
Charisma and Constitution every time

Feat Progression
1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Soldier of the Faith
4: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
6: Melee Training (Charisma)
8: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)
10: Strength of Valor
11: Versatile Master
12: Majestic Rescue
14: Action Surge
16: Disheartening Presence
18: White Lotus Master Evasion
20: White Lotus Master Hindrance
21: replace Soldier of the Faith with Multiclass Mastery (Paladin and Fighter?)
21: Supreme Majesty
22: Bard Implement Expertise
24: Heavenly Heritage
26: Mounted Combat
28: Radiant Recovery
30: Robust Defenses

Starting Powers: Guiding Strike (AW), Vicious Mockery (AW), Shout of Triumph (E), Eldritch Strike (Dilletante), Stirring Shout (D)

Power Progression beyond level 1:
2: Clockwork Precision (U)
3: Song of the New Dawn (E)
5: Song of Discord (D)
6: Synchronicity (U)
7: Rewrite the Future (E)
9: Saga of Vengeance (D)
10: Savior's Song (U)
13: Song of Storms (E)
15: Confusing Chorus (D)
16: Song of Sublime Snowfall (U)
17: Balance of Fortune (E)
19: All Soul's Ball (D)
22: Ode to the Daring (U)
23: Chant of Bad Fortune (E)
25: Virtuoso of Misfortune (D)
27: Strike From Legend (E)
29: Spellbind (D)

Naturally, this build is nothing but disasterous, as I don't know squat about character optimization. HELP! :smalleek:

[Tengu_temp]

Where are Deva Heritage, White Lotus Master Evasion, White Lotus Master Hindrance, Heavenly Heritage, Multiclass Mastery, Radiant Recovery from?

How many multiclass feats do you want? Because I currently see the initial one, and I'm pretty sure you'd want to swap around some powers so your character will become more paladin-y.

Would you mind if my proposed build ditched implement powers completely, and used only weapon ones?

Also, I have no access to the Bard article, so I can't comment on your choice of paragon path.

[Colmarr]

The lack of Heavy Blade Opportunity can be swallowed, since you should take Melee Training (Charisma) anyway, which is only slightly worse

I'm not sure that Melee Training is necessarily worse than HBO. I'd peg them as being on par with each other.

Doesn't HBO only apply to OAs?

If so, then Melee Training could quite easily be a better feat for the OP's character if there's a warlord in the party or he spends a lot of time charging (I note the reference to the Mounted Combat feat).

[Excession]

You actually don't need Melee Training: Charisma in that build. Your dilettante power Eldritch Strike can be used as a melee basic attack, and once you take Versatile Master it can be used at-will. Take Versatile Master by retraining Melee Training at 11 and you can pick up something else instead.

[eepop]

I know you've done a lot of work on this build, and not discouraging this route, but I just wanted to comment that I had a very positive experience playing a half-elf Bard/Paladin Hybrid using the hybrid class rules.

The balance was pretty much right on the mark.

I know some people tend to shy away from hybrids for fear that they will be under or over powered, so I just wanted to make sure that it was brought up that his combination actually works right on target where it should.

HYBRID CLASS TRAITS
Role: Defender/Leader
Power Source: Arcane/Divine
Key Ability: Charisma
Secondary Abilities: Strength, Wisdom, Intelligence, Constitution

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail; light shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee,
simple ranged, military ranged
Implements: Holy symbols, Wands

Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, Reflex, or Will and +1 to Reflex or Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 13.5
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5.5
Healing Surges per Day: 8.5

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha)


Class Features:
Divine Challenge (Hybrid)
You gain the paladin power divine challenge (Player’s
Handbook, page 91). The power functions as normal,
except that the following text replaces the power’s
second paragraph:
"While the target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack
rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target. The
first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as
a target before the start of your next turn, you can use an
immediate reaction to deal radiant damage to the target
equal to your Charisma modifier. The damage increases
to 2 + your Charisma modifier at 11th level and 4 + your
Charisma modifier at 21st level."

Majestic Word (Hybrid)
You gain the bard power majestic word (Player’s Handbook
2, page 68). The power functions as normal,
except that you can use it only once per encounter.

Skill Versatility
This class feature functions exactly as the bard class
feature (Player’s Handbook 2, page 67).




Hybrid Talent Options
If you take the Hybrid Talent feat, you can select one
of the following options.

Channel Divinity (Hybrid Paladin)
This class feature functions as the paladin class feature
(Player’s Handbook, page 91), except that you start
with a single paladin Channel Divinity power of your
choice.

Lay on Hands (Hybrid Paladin)
This class feature functions exactly as the paladin
class feature (Player’s Handbook, page 91).

Paladin Armor Proficiency (Hybrid Paladin)
You gain proficiency with scale armor, and plate armor. You also
gain proficiency with heavy shields.

Bardic Virtue
This class feature functions exactly as the bard class
feature (Player’s Handbook 2, page 67).

Song of Rest
This class feature functions exactly as the bard class
feature (Player’s Handbook 2, page 67).

Words of Friendship
You gain the bard power words of friendship (Player’s
Handbook 2, page 68).

[Tengu_temp]

I know you've done a lot of work on this build, and not discouraging this route, but I just wanted to comment that I had a very positive experience playing a half-elf Bard/Paladin Hybrid using the hybrid class rules.


Hmm, that's a pretty good build, actually - it doesn't leave you very strained for hybrid talents, and thanks to Paladin Armor Proficiency you can completely dump strength in it if you want to.

[Burley]

Where are Deva Heritage, White Lotus Master Evasion, White Lotus Master Hindrance, Heavenly Heritage, Multiclass Mastery, Radiant Recovery from?

I'm still waiting to find out where these feats are from. Since when do racial heritage feats exist? Especially Deva Heritage. They don't breed. They reincarnate. It doesn't make sense...

[Mando Knight]

I'm still waiting to find out where these feats are from. Since when do racial heritage feats exist? Especially Deva Heritage. They don't breed. They reincarnate. It doesn't make sense...

They're all in Dragon 374. You'd have to read the articles to make sense of the names and why any character can have Deva Heritage (yes, that includes Warforged).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What MandoKnight says it true. Deva Heritage, Heavenly Heritage and Radiant Recovery are from the Dragon Article "Ecology of the Deva." According to the article, deva CAN reproduce, but they do not produce Deva offspring. Instead, they produce a child of whatever race the other parent was (they can have kids with anyone) with a touch of celestial blood in them. Deva Heritage represents that blood manifesting itself, giving the character an extra utility power. Devas can take the feat too, in which case their angelic blood is stronger than usual. Heavenly Heritage and Radiant Recovery I think give temporary HP if the character is hit by certain elements like radiant or cold damage.

The White Lotus feats are also from Dragon, in an article about the White Lotus Academy, which trains arcanists of all stripes.

Multiclass Mastery is either from Arcane Power or the Player's Handbook 2, if memory serves. It's an epic tier feat that essentially gives you two multiclass feats for the price of one. Only bards can take it.

I like the idea of the hybrid bard/paladin, but aren't those rules still in the playtesting stage?

[skywalker]

You actually don't need Melee Training: Charisma in that build. Your dilettante power Eldritch Strike can be used as a melee basic attack, and once you take Versatile Master it can be used at-will. Take Versatile Master by retraining Melee Training at 11 and you can pick up something else instead.

Melee training could still be useful, in the event that he didn't want to use eldritch strike at some point.

I confess absolutely no knowledge of eldritch strike, however.

15 strength by paragon means not running the arms race for the stats that matter.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I realize that is all my primary at-wills rely on Charisma then I shouldn't need Melee Training.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've done some editing of the build for more efficient feat placement, and have picked an epic destiny as well as a Scales of War Background. I had a few specific questions regarding the build, which I think is actaully a lot better than I gave myself credit for. (Of course, I begged borrowed and stole from the best :embarrass )
Race: Half-elf
Class: Bard, MC paladin.
Paragon Path: Blessed Psalmist (Class Acts: Bard article)
Epic Destiny: Mythic Sovereign
Scales of War Background: Warsmith

Starting Stats: Str 13, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18.

Ability Score Progression
Charisma and Constitution every time

Feat Progression
1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Soldier of the Faith
4: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
6: Mounted Combat
8: Radiant Recovery
10: Toughness
11: Versatile Master
12: Majestic Rescue
14: Action Surge
16: Disheartening Presence
18: Improved Defenses
20:
21: replace Soldier of the Faith with Multiclass Mastery (Paladin and Fighter?)
21: Supreme Majesty
22: Bard Implement Expertise
22: replace Improved Defenses with Robust Defenses
24:
26:
28:
30:

Starting Powers: Guiding Strike (AW), Vicious Mockery (AW), Shout of Triumph (E), Eldritch Strike (Dilletante), Stirring Shout (D)

Power Progression beyond level 1:
2: Clockwork Precision (U)
3: Song of the New Dawn (E)
5: Song of Discord (D)
6: Synchronicity (U)
7: Rewrite the Future (E)
9: Saga of Vengeance (D)
10: Savior's Song (U)
13: Song of Storms (E)
15: Confusing Chorus (D)
16: Song of Sublime Snowfall (U)
17: Balance of Fortune (E)
19: All Soul's Ball (D)
22: Ode to the Daring (U)
23: Chant of Bad Fortune (E)
25: Virtuoso of Misfortune (D)
27: Strike From Legend (E)
29: Spellbind (D)

In psk20's thread, which I asked about this build in, he mentioned dropping the White Lotus feats in place of more defensive ones, a suggestion I have since taken. I have also chosen to take Improved defenses (or whatever that feat is that grants a bonus to each defense in Paragon tier and is replaced by Robust Defenses at Epic tier is called). I'm wondering what other feats I should stick in there. I have all the feats I think I want, and the ones that are essential to making the character strong.

I'm considering putting Vexing Flanker in here, which psk20 also suggested, but I can't remember which tier it's in, and I'm away from my books at the moment. Also, should I take the Epic Defense feats (Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflex, Epic Will)? Or would that not stack with Robust Defenses? What other feats should I tuck in here or replace, especially with multiclass feats? What multiclass feat should I take when I take Multiclass Mastery, which lets me take any entering multiclass feat (So I couldn't take feats like Novice Power, but feats like Battle Awareness or Student of Battle would work. At least, I think that's how the feat works.) in addition to Soldier of the Faith, which is a must for this build.

Also, since no one has commented on my power selection, I assume it's at least decent, but I was wondering about switching it up with some paladin powers, which was the whole point of the paladin multiclass and Blessed Psalmist path in the first place. What paladin powers would work best in this build? What feats are required to take them, aside from Soldier of the Faith? At what level should I take and start using them?

[Mando Knight]

If you're taking both implement and weapon powers, I'd suggest cutting down on the amount of cash you need to spend and invest in Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blade) and Focused Expertise (Whatever Sword You Like Best). You won't get to use Wand abilities, but you'll be able to have a shield in one hand, a sword in the other, and fight without worrying about losing out on your implement powers. Focused Expertise will let you use your sword for whatever attack you like and remain effective.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Blessed Psalmist allows me to use bard implements for powers that require a holy symbol though.

[Tengu_temp]

Since most (but not all) of my questions have been answered, I'll be putting a bard/paladin build soon. It will not be a Blessed Psalmist, because
1. I don't have access to this paragon path
and
2. it seems to be based on implements - this build will completely scrap implement powers and focus on weapon ones instead.


Blessed Psalmist allows me to use bard implements for powers that require a holy symbol though.

And what benefit does that give your current build, which has no powers requiring a holy symbol?

[Mando Knight]

Blessed Psalmist allows me to use bard implements for powers that require a holy symbol though.

Didn't catch that. Well, then. Makes more sense to grab Arcane Implement Proficiency, so you can pick up any random enchanted longsword and smite the hells out of your foes with any implement power you might choose.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And what benefit does that give your current build, which has no powers requiring a holy symbol?

I'm currently trying to figure out what powers to add that might require a holy symbol. There's not much point in taking the paladin multiclass if I'm not going to take any paladin powers. I just don't know what works best when multiclassing into paladin. I'm used to starting with paladin as the base class.

Blessed Psalmist does much more than just give you the ability to use bard implements for holy symbol powers though. You get full access to the Channel Divinity class feature for whatever class you multiclassed into as well. I don't know whether that's good or not, but it certainly adds a lot.

In addition, it soups up Majestic Word. If you use an action point and make another attack that hits, you get another use of Majestic Word. If you spend the action point and make an attack that misses, your allies get your level + your Charisma modifier in hit points and they can move 1 square.

It also allows you to spend your Words of Friendship power to convert the damage a bard attack does into radiant damage, as well as giving the target vulnerability to radiant damage equal to your Charisma modifier until the end of your next turn.

And that's just the features!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Didn't catch that. Well, then. Makes more sense to grab Arcane Implement Proficiency, so you can pick up any random enchanted longsword and smite the hells out of your foes with any implement power you might choose.
That DOES sound helpful. I'm currently weighing the pros and cons of using whatever weapon I can get (I really like the Blade of Bahamut, especially after you had Goldclaw use it in Sailors on the Astral Sea. That was awesome!) or just sticking with songblades. I'll admit this whole implement and multiclassing switcheroos and such are confusing the hell out of me, especially when the best guidebook for Bards over at the WOTC board is currently incomplete.

[Tengu_temp]

Feats:
1: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades)
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)
2. replace Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades) with Focused Expertise (Longsword)
4: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
6: Shield Proficiency (Heavy Shield)
8: Soldier of the Faith
10: Toughness
11: Versatile Master
12: Majestic Rescue
14: Action Surge
16: Disheartening Presence*
18: Improved Defenses
20: Improved Valor*
21: replace Soldier of the Faith with Multiclass Mastery (Paladin and Fighter?)
21: Supreme Majesty
22: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
22: replace Improved Defenses with Robust Defenses
24: Armor Specialization (Plate)
26:
28:
30:

Ability scores, as yours. I didn't take Deva Heritage because I am not sure what it does. Where are Improved Defenses from? I can't find it.

* - You can replace those feats with multiclass ones.

As for powers, with this build you can choose from both implement and weapon powers, instead of being limited to one category. In many cases choosing a power is a matter of preference rather than One Best Choice. I'd like to point out, however, that Clockwork Precision sucks - how often do you see characters using Aid Another in combat, anyway? Song of Courage/Defense is a much better deal.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I made a mistake. Improved Defenses are actually PARAGON Defenses from the Player's Handbook 2. It gives a +1 feat bonus to Fortitude, Reflex and Will, and in most builds it is replaced by Robust Defenses upon reaching epic tier.

Here's the scoop on Deva Heritage:

Deva Heritage [Deva Bloodline]

Prerequisite: Living humanoid race
Benefit: You gain astral splendor as a utility power. Also, you gain a +2 bonus to Perception and Insight checks against angels, devas, devils and rakshasas.

Astral Splendor - Feat Utility Power
You take on an imperious aspect, and silvery light—that of your astral soul—shines from your eyes, mouth, and heart
Daily ✦ Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must not be bloodied
Effect: Until the stance ends, enemies take a -2 penalty to attack rolls made against you. You also shed bright light within 6 squares.
Special: This stance ends when you become bloodied.

[Mando Knight]

(I really like the Blade of Bahamut, especially after you had Goldclaw use it in Sailors on the Astral Sea. That was awesome!)

'M glad you think so.

If I had a say in the dev team, Adventurer's Vault 2 would include more weapons like it, like "The Hammer Of Moradin" or something like that. Something for Paladins, Clerics, and Avengers to get their hands on and swing at infidels, y'know?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

'M glad you think so.

If I had a say in the dev team, Adventurer's Vault 2 would include more weapons like it, like "The Hammer Of Moradin" or something like that. Something for Paladins, Clerics, and Avengers to get their hands on and swing at infidels, y'know?

Adventurer's Vault does have the Moradin's Weapon. It can be applied to hammers only I believe, but it functions similarly to the Blade of Bahamut in that only a Moradin worshiper can use it and it doubles as a holy symbol. Can't remember what its daily power is though.

[Mando Knight]

Adventurer's Vault does have the Moradin's Weapon. It can be applied to hammers only I believe, but it functions similarly to the Blade of Bahamut in that only a Moradin worshiper can use it and it doubles as a holy symbol. Can't remember what its daily power is though.

There is? *Checks* Huh. There's a lot of interesting weapons I missed when looking through the Adventurer's Vault before. Still, the other deities need their own weapons, too. Like Corellon's Sword or something. Or a flail or light blade for the Raven Queen, to appease those who want to make a Spiked Chain-wielding Shadar Kai follower...

[Excession]

Melee training could still be useful, in the event that he didn't want to use eldritch strike at some point.

I confess absolutely no knowledge of eldritch strike, however.

Eldritch strike is a warlock at-will introduced as a power card that came with the "PH Heroes: Series 1" miniatures. Here is the text from the compendium:


Eldritch Strike -- Warlock Attack 1

The dire power of your attack drives your enemy before you.

At-Will • Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon

Target: One creature

Attack: Charisma or Constitution vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Charisma or Constitution modifier damage, and you slide the target 1 square.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Charisma or Constitution modifier at 21st level.

Special: When you take this power, you determine whether you use Charisma or Constitution for the power’s attack roll and damage roll. This choice remains throughout the character’s life.

This power counts as a melee basic attack.

IIRC when using a power that slides you can always choose to leave the target where they are. Once you have Eldritch Strike at-will there's no need to use a normal basic attack.


I realize that as all my primary at-wills rely on Charisma then I shouldn't need Melee Training.

This is only true because Eldritch Strike can be used as a melee basic attack, which is not true of other at-wills. In my experience hitting with OAs and charges is important for defenders. I assume that was what you meant, just thought I'd clarify for anyone reading this thread.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Another question regarding the build Tengu. Bardic Implement Expertise requires a 15 Intelligence. Will this build be able to have that by the time the feat needs to be taken, or will I need to boost Intelligence at least once to meet the prerequisites?

Also, would it be possible to instead of swapping Soldier of the Faith with Multiclass Mastery and then having one feat represented by Multiclass Masters be Soldier of the Faith and one other open, just take Multiclass Mastery and have it represtent Adept and Acolyte Power? Acolyte Power gets me Wrath of the Gods, which is pretty damn useful, and Adept Power gets me Corona of Blinding Radiance, which is also very powerful.

Is there room for Novice Power in here as well? What would be the best paladin encounter power for something like this?

[Tengu_temp]

Another question regarding the build Tengu. Bardic Implement Expertise requires a 15 Intelligence. Will this build be able to have that by the time the feat needs to be taken, or will I need to boost Intelligence at least once to meet the prerequisites?


You receive upgrades to all stats only twice, so you'll have to start with 13 intelligence to upgrade it passively to 15 without spending any points. If you stay away from powers that get bonuses from wisdom and therefore won't need wisdom, you can achieve it with this build:

Str 13 Con 16 Dex 8/10 Int 13 Wis 12/10 Cha 18

And you will still be able to upgrade Con and Cha at every level. Note that Bard Implement Mastery specifies that you need to wield an implement, but not actually use an implement power, so it will work with all your arcane powers. You might want to fetch some feats that give you bonuses when you crit, like Epic Resurgence, Font of Radiance or Triumphant Attack.


Also, would it be possible to instead of swapping Soldier of the Faith with Multiclass Mastery and then having one feat represented by Multiclass Masters be Soldier of the Faith and one other open, just take Multiclass Mastery and have it represtent Adept and Acolyte Power? Acolyte Power gets me Wrath of the Gods, which is pretty damn useful, and Adept Power gets me Corona of Blinding Radiance, which is also very powerful.


Multiclass Mastery lets you choose any two multiclass feats, not just initial ones, so indeed that'd be possible.

[Thoughtbot360]

Whenever I hear fullblade though, I think of this:

[IMAGE]

I do not want this. I want something more like this:

[IMAGE]

So....you hate oversized swords but like oversized armor?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

No no, that's not what I meant. I meant that I want to look more like a proper knight in shining armor, something you'd see in The Lord of the Rings or the stories of King Arthur, rather than a melodramatic bishie with a sword that technically is too big to lift, like you see in most Final Fantasy games.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You receive upgrades to all stats only twice, so you'll have to start with 13 intelligence to upgrade it passively to 15 without spending any points. If you stay away from powers that get bonuses from wisdom and therefore won't need wisdom, you can achieve it with this build:

Str 13 Con 16 Dex 8/10 Int 13 Wis 12/10 Cha 18

And you will still be able to upgrade Con and Cha at every level. Note that Bard Implement Mastery specifies that you need to wield an implement, but not actually use an implement power, so it will work with all your arcane powers. You might want to fetch some feats that give you bonuses when you crit, like Epic Resurgence, Font of Radiance or Triumphant Attack.

Multiclass Mastery lets you choose any two multiclass feats, not just initial ones, so indeed that'd be possible.

Okay, I see what you mean. Is there a way to fit Deva Heritage in there or not? That's the one feat I want most in this build. I don't really need Mounted Combat if it's going to be problematic, I just thought it'd be cool to ride a wyvern or drake into battle, the character being a Bahamut worshipper and all.

[Tengu_temp]

Sure - just don't take Improved Valor, get Deva Heritage at level 1 and push all the feats two levels higher (one in case of level 1 -> level 2). Most of the feats you get at paragon in this build, apart from Versatile Master, are replacable if you ask me.

The problem with Mounted Combat is that its usefulness differs depending on what mount do you have, and even if you currently have a mount with a good ability granted by this feat, there's a high chance it'll become too weak in several levels and you'll have to replace it with a different one, which might have a much less useful Mount ability. This problem disappears if your DM is willing to homebrew mounts for you, or let your mount level with you - so you will ride an increasingly stronger rage drake at each level, for example.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Like I said, Mounted Combat isn't essential to the concept of the character, like Deva Heritage is. I just thought it'd be cool after being inspired by the sheer badassness of Théoden and the Rohirrim in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVvUnhEs_g

[Tengu_temp]

Well, you have a lot of feats to ditch if you want Mounted Combat - if you'd rather use a greatsword instead of a longsword you can even drop heavy shield proficiency.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

A lot of feats to ditch? Please explain. :smallconfused:

[Tengu_temp]

None of the feats on Paragon in the build I suggested, apart from Versatile Master, are mandatory - Majestic Rescue is highly situational, for example, while the bonus from Improved Valor might be too low to be noticable in most situations.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Eh, like I said, Mounted Combat isn't essential. Would it be possible to do a lot of feat switching in epic, replacing the unneccessary paragon feats with Epic feats?

[Tengu_temp]

Yeah, if you can find epic feats you like more than these paragon ones.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's been suggested that I wait a week or two for Divine Power to see what they have for paladins. Is this a good idea?

[Tengu_temp]

I think so. It will probably include a lot of goodies.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I just hope my mother forgot about my announcement that I was not going to buy D&D books for the rest of the year. :smallredface:

[psk20]

Heh, heh. I've made a similar announcement to my fiancee, although I do believe that the last D&D book we bought was her idea (Open Grave - she's the DM after all).

I think that Divine Power may have some interesting changes in store for the Divine Challenge class feature. A few of the paladin feats and powers that have been fed to us by Wizards reference something called a "Divine Sanction". Some (including myself) suspect that the divine sanction might be part of the functionality of the Divine Challenge power itself. Perhaps, for instance, divine sanction is along the lines of "Once per round, before the end of each of your turns, when an enemy affected by your divine sanction makes an attack that does not include you, that enemy takes radiant damage equal to 3/6/9+cha mod"? If so, it's hard to say whether such a rewording will have an effect on us Soldiers of the Faith. For instance, will we have a divine sanction at all? Does this mean that our Divine Challenge might not have full functionality (perhaps it will be just a mark, with no punishment mechanic)? Will we be able to benefit fully from feats such as Contagious Challenge, which allow us to place our divine sanction on a target adjacent to our divine challenge target?

This is all incredibly speculative at this point. My main point is simply that we don't really know whether builds like ours will have half a dozen very enticing new feats made available to them in Divine Power, or whether the Soldier of the Faith feat will even work as it currently does, anymore.

So wait, say, a week (maybe?) until our Japanese friends get their hands on a copy and give us the lowdown. Well, maybe 2 weeks (the release date), if Japan gets unlucky.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

After playing Soul Calibur IV a bit, I've gained a greater appreciation for BFS's. I think I'll drop Shield Proficiency and take Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade) instead.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Here's my newest attempt at a character build, using the advice from here and my other thread over at the WOTC boards.

Geiseric the Bright

Race: Half-elf
Class: Bard, MC paladin.
Paragon Path: Blessed Psalmist (Class Acts: Bard article)
Epic Destiny: Mythic Sovereign (Epic Faerun article)

Starting Stats: Str 13, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 18.
Level 30 Stats: Str 15, Con 24, Dex 12, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 26.

Ability Score Progression
4: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
8: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
11: +1 All
14: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
18: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
21: +1 All
24: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
28: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma

Trained Skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Nature

Feat Progression
1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades)
4: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)
4: replace Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades) with Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
6: Focused Expertise (Bastard Sword)
8: Soldier of the Faith
10: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
11: Versatile Master
12: Heavy Shield Proficiency
14: Toughness
16: Majestic Rescue
18: Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods)
20: Action Surge
21: replace Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) with Multiclass Mastery (Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) and Adept Power (Corona of Blinding Radiance))
21: Paragon Defenses
22: Supreme Majesty
22: replace Paragon Defenses with Robust Defenses
24: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
26: Armor Specialization (Plate)
28: Font of Radiance
30: Triumphant Attack

Starting Powers: Guiding Strike (AW), Vicious Mockery (AW), Shout of Triumph (E), Eldritch Strike (Dilletante), Stirring Shout (D), Astral Splendor (U)

Power Progression beyond level 1
2: Song of Courage (U)
3: Song of the New Dawn (E)
5: Song of Discord (D)
6: Ode to Sacrifice (U) (replace with Wrath of the Gods at Level 16)
7: Scorpion's Claw Strike (E)
9: Rain of Starlight (D)
10: Savior's Song (U)
11: Song of Radient Dawn (E)
12: Psalm of Succor (U)
13: Song of Storms (E)
15: Wracking Radiance (D)
16: Song of Sublime Snowfall (U)
17: Turning the Tide (E)
19: Encircling Dance (D) (replace with Corona of Blinding Radiance at Level 21)
20: Brilliant Symphony (D)
22: Ode to the Daring (U)
23: Chant of Bad Fortune (E)
25: Vision Distortion (D)
26: Sword of Valor (U)
27: Strike from Legend (E)
29: Hero's Beacon (D)

I paid a little more to the backstory and concept I've been working on here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1212610) while making this build as well. I think it's at least workable, if not pretty darn strong, but it's most likely not game-breakingly powerful. Which suits me fine.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...any opinions on the new build? psk20 told me over at the WOTC boards that if I use a fullblade as my implement I won't be able to take advantage of the other half of Heaven's Blessing (a feature of the Blessed Psalmist paragon path, it allows you to use bard implements for the divine powers you get from your multiclassing, instead of needing a holy symbol or worshiping Corellon to take advantage of the Star of Corellon), as well as Bardic Implement Expertise, because while the feats allow me to use a fullblade as an implement, it is still not a bard implement, so it doesn't count.

[Tengu_temp]

It depends on the rules interpretation - I'd rule that taking Arcane Implement Proficiency makes the new implement count as your class implement.

Looks like a pretty solid build, although I would wait with replacing Weapon Expertise until level 6. Depending on the group and how defender-y do you want to be, you might consider swapping fullblade for longsword/bastard sword + heavy shield, too.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Believe me, that was my original intention. I'd just need to replace the feats for fullblade with heavy sheild to what they originally. Perhaps I could remove Bard Implement Expertise, just to be on the safe side, in case the DM rules the other way, and replace it with Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)?

That'd fit the image I originally had when I envisioned Geiseric, which was something like this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91026.jpg

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've edited the feat progression a little. How's it look now?


1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades)
4: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)
4: replace Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades) with Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
6: Focused Expertise (Bastard Sword)
8: Soldier of the Faith
10: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
11: Versatile Master
12: Heavy Shield Proficiency
14: Toughness
16: Majestic Rescue
18: Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods)
20: Action Surge
21: replace Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) with Multiclass Mastery (Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) and Adept Power (Corona of Blinding Radiance))
21: Paragon Defenses
22: Supreme Majesty
22: replace Paragon Defenses with Robust Defenses
24: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
26: Armor Specialization (Plate)
28: Font of Radiance
30: Triumphant Attack

[Tengu_temp]

What feat did you get rid of? Also, it takes you quite a while to get all the essential feats, so this build generally works best when starting at least at paragon - but even before that it should do its job well.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What feat did you get rid of? Also, it takes you quite a while to get all the essential feats, so this build generally works best when starting at least at paragon - but even before that it should do its job well.

I got rid of Bardic Implement Expertise. I'm unsure as to whether heavy blades would count as actual bard implements when I take Arcane Implement Proficiency, since both that feat and the Heaven's Favor feature of the Blessed Psalmist paragon path stipulate that they only function with bard implements, and I'm erring on the side of caution. I don't mind that it'll take a while to reach my full potential. That's kind of what I was hoping for with this build. It fits in with his background. He's got a huge legacy to live up to, and he's certainly not going to be able to live up to it quite that much in the Heroic tier. I'm going to do some more tweaking once I have Divine Power though. The epic destinies in there sound VERY tempting.

[Asbestos]

Arcane Implement Proficiency:
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Any arcane class
Benefit: Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class other than your own. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers.
If that implement is also a weapon, you do not add the weapon’s proficiency bonus to attack rolls made while you wield it as an implement.

From the Blessed Psalmist PP:
In addition, you may use bard implements with
any prayers associated with this class that have the
implement keyword.

I'd say that, technically, psk20 is correct about Arcane Implement Proficiency not working with Blessed Psalmist. Looks like your weapon options are Songblades (or Holy Avengers if you do take Arcane Implement Proficiency [Heavy Blades])

It also seems that technically AIP does not work with Hybrid characters. You'd only be able to use your heavy blade with your arcane powers, rather than your spells and prayers.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Arcane Implement Proficiency:
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Any arcane class
Benefit: Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class other than your own. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers.
If that implement is also a weapon, you do not add the weapon’s proficiency bonus to attack rolls made while you wield it as an implement.

From the Blessed Psalmist PP:
In addition, you may use bard implements with
any prayers associated with this class that have the
implement keyword.

I'd say that, technically, psk20 is correct about Arcane Implement Proficiency not working with Blessed Psalmist. Looks like your weapon options are Songblades (or Holy Avengers if you do take Arcane Implement Proficiency [Heavy Blades])

It also seems that technically AIP does not work with Hybrid characters. You'd only be able to use your heavy blade with your arcane powers, rather than your spells and prayers.

Actually, my weapon options do include all heavy blades. I believe the bit about the Blessed Psalmist states that you can use bard implements for your multiclass divine powers. The only two powers I am taking are Wrath of the Gods, which is a utility power and does not require an implement, and Corona of Blinding Radiance, which is a weapon-based power. If I were taking a power with the implement keyword it might be an issue, but it really isn't one here. And since I'm not taking Bard Implement Expertise, I don't need to worry about the issue at all.

[Mando Knight]

I'd say that, technically, psk20 is correct about Arcane Implement Proficiency not working with Blessed Psalmist. Looks like your weapon options are Songblades (or Holy Avengers if you do take Arcane Implement Proficiency [Heavy Blades])

There's also the Blade of Bahamut, which is a much lower level item that works with any divine class so long as the wielder worships Bahamut...

[Asbestos]

Actually, my weapon options do include all heavy blades. I believe the bit about the Blessed Psalmist states that you can use bard implements for your multiclass divine powers. The only two powers I am taking are Wrath of the Gods, which is a utility power and does not require an implement, and Corona of Blinding Radiance, which is a weapon-based power. If I were taking a power with the implement keyword it might be an issue, but it really isn't one here. And since I'm not taking Bard Implement Expertise, I don't need to worry about the issue at all.

Yes, but since your Heavy Blades only work with Arcane powers... they do not work with your Blessed Psalmist powers which are all Divine. Damn strange, isn't it?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yes, but since your Heavy Blades only work with Arcane powers... they do not work with your Blessed Psalmist powers which are all Divine. Damn strange, isn't it?

I didn't notice that stipulation. No matter though, I'm going to try and get my paws on a Blade of Bahamut anyway, so I'll be able to use that.

[Asbestos]

I didn't notice that stipulation. No matter though, I'm going to try and get my paws on a Blade of Bahamut anyway, so I'll be able to use that.

Actually, to be technical, you can't use the Blade of Bahamut with the Blessed Psalmist powers. The BoB says it counts as a holy symbol... holy symbols are implements for Paladin, Cleric, and Avenger powers and paragon path powers. The Blessed Psalmist is a Bard paragon path and therefor the BoB can't be used as an implement for the associated powers. Likewise, as I stated earlier, the powers are Divine and therefor do not work with Arcane Implement Proficiency. It seems that the only implements that would work, by RAW, with the Blessed Psalmist powers are bard implements OR holy symbols if you're using a hybrid bard|paladin.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...what you're saying is because the Blessed Psalmist is a bard paragon path I can't use holy symbols as implements for the powers it gives because they're not bard implements, and I can't use my sword, even if it doubles as a holy symbol because they're divine powers?

[Mando Knight]

That's just munchkining RAW to kill the viability of an otherwise balanced and interesting character concept, IMO.

[Asbestos]

That's just munchkining RAW to kill the viability of an otherwise balanced and interesting character concept, IMO.

It certainly is interesting and balanced (or at least far from optimized and far from worthless as well). Its less munchkining and more playing Devil's Advocate. It is good to know the 'doesn't work by RAW' arguments when you're concerned about RAW. The easiest homebrew fix is probably to say that Arcane Implement Proficiency makes the Implement gained usable as if it were an implement for your class. In some ways this is limiting, but it helps with this build.

Allowing the holy symbol to work as an implement for the powers is less appealing since holy symbols are specifically implements for Paladin, Avenger, and Cleric powers and not just generic 'divine' powers (the Invoker for example does not use them)

In the specific case of the Blessed Psalmist I'm not sure if they meant it to be a bard implement only using class. I think that was just an accident since it is the only PP in the 'Class Acts: Bard' article that is affected in such a way.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Besides, if someone's paying that close of attention to the RAW, then they'd make a lousy DM for being so inflexible.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...looks good?

[Burley]

I've been kinda lurking around this thread. I don't have much to add, and I don't remember if this has already been said, but: Focused Expertise, if allowed, would be a great feat. (When wielding an Weaplement, you get a +1 to attack with weapon and implement. It's in the Monk playtest.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's already in the build.

[Burley]

Errr... You're in the build? :smallredface:

Sorry...

[Asbestos]

Besides, if someone's paying that close of attention to the RAW, then they'd make a lousy DM for being so inflexible.

Its always good to pay attention to RAW, it isn't always good to follow it. Build looks good, but I would probably switch out some of the early 'to-hit' feats for the slightly later armor feats. Depends on what level you start.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Errr... You're in the build? :smallredface:

Sorry...

Focused Expertise is in the build. :smalltongue:

[Asbestos]

I have the Divine Poooower!! And I'll be starting a thread about that soon. However, things from it that might help this build.

Group Defense:
Half-elf, Paladin
Allies gain a +1 to defenses against creatures you mark.

Ardent Strike, Paladin Attack 1
At-will*Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Strength OR Charisma vs AC (that's right, str or cha, several powers have this)
Hit: 1[W]+Str or Cha mod, and the target is subject to your divine sanction until the end of your next turn.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack.

Now, what is this divine sanction mentioned here and in so many other paladin powers?
Well, its a mark that lasts until the power says or until it is superseded by another mark. Until it ends the target takes radiant damage equal to 3+Cha mod the first time each round it makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target. Increase to 6+Cha mod at 11th, and 9+Cha mod at 21st level. Might be worth taking instead of Eldritch Strike.

[Asbestos]

Wait, also noticed the other paladin at-will.

Melee Weapon
Cha vs AC
1[W] + Cha radiant damage, and you gain a +2 bonus to saving throws until the start of your next turn.
Special: Can be used as a melee basic attack.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I have the Divine Poooower!! And I'll be starting a thread about that soon. However, things from it that might help this build.
May I ask a potentially probing question? Do you live in the States? I ask because I'm going to the Mall of America on Wednesday, and I'm hoping to pick up a copy of Divine Power myself. :smallredface:

[Asbestos]

May I ask a potentially probing question? Do you live in the States? I ask because I'm going to the Mall of America on Wednesday, and I'm hoping to pick up a copy of Divine Power myself. :smallredface:

Indeed I do, somewhere within the borders of New York to be more specific.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Ah. I'm a Minnesotan. You think I'll find Divine Power out here?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Huzzah! I have Divine Power! Man, a lot of tempting looking things in here, especially the Avatar destinies. I'd need to fit a couple of feats in there though if I wanted one of those.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The following feats have been reccomended to me:

Group Defenses
Persistant or Contagious Challenge
Punishing Radiance
Divine Mastery
Protector's Boon

Which ones would work best with this kind of character? What should they replace, should I decide to use them?

Also, I think the Saint destiny looks even better than the Mythic Sovereign, especially since it's power allows you to raise a slain companion in the middle of combat at full health.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

No advice?

[Asbestos]

Well, when you do drop feats and add new ones, you could easily drop Weapon Expertise without suffering. Your 18 Cha and +3 proficiency weapon should easily hold you together until you get Focused Expertise. In its stead, bump up Arcane Implement Proficiency. Sadly, this doesn't really free up feats since you'll still be taking a Bastard Sword at 4th level.

Something you may want to consider is that Deva Heritage + all your armor feats mean that your allies are still likely easier to hit than yourself, even if you challenge/sanction them. My suggestion would be to do what others have mentioned in this thread, get a fullblade. Your AC is already amazing, there is really no need for a shield (or spending a feat on an even bigger shield)

Toughness would be another feat that you might consider dropping for the newer feats.

On the newer feats:
Group Defenses will make you, above everything, a better defender since effectively the people you mark take a -3 to attack targets that aren't you. This helps mitigate the 'I'll just take the radiant damage and hit this guy than miss at this guy' approach that some DMs use.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I thought the bastard sword was better for leader/defender types than the fullblade because of the shield advantage. Make up your minds!:smalleek:

Furthermore, Weapon Expertise is replaced by Focused Expertise in this build at a certain level. I can't eliminate it without eliminating Focused Expertise as well.

[Asbestos]

I thought the bastard sword was better for leader/defender types than the fullblade because of the shield advantage. Make up your minds!:smalleek:

This is something that's been gone over in other threads, especially in regards to the 4e paladin. You want to defend proactively, not retroactively in order to be a true defender. Basically, you want your marked enemies to attack you rather than your allies. Yes, if they attack your allies something bad happens to them (this is true for all except the Shielding Swordmage, possibly the most defendery build there is imo) but that means they've already attacked your squishier allies! If your AC is too high relative to your fellow party members, then the attack penalty imposed by marking is still not enough to make you an attractive target to intelligent enemies. Yes, the enemy will die faster if it attacks your allies, but it will still be doing damage to the other party members. I think that your various AC and NAD boosting feats have you at a 'high enough' AC/Def and that you can easily forgo the shield.



Furthermore, Weapon Expertise is replaced by Focused Expertise in this build at a certain level. I can't eliminate it without eliminating Focused Expertise as well.

I'm just saying that there really is no need for Weapon Expertise in the build and that if things are rearranged we can do away with it.

Your build with my suggestions:
1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades) Arcane Implement Prof (Heavy blades) This way you never really need to have an implement other than a sword at any point in your career.
4: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blades)Armor Prof (Scale)
6: Focused Expertise (Bastard Sword) Weapon Prof (Fullblade)
8: Soldier of the Faith Focused Expertise (Fullblade) [because here you may start to see paragon tier monsters and the +1 to attack will make a greater difference against them. Yes, you will hit more in Heroic with it, but its not as necessary if your party has decent enough tactics]
10: Armor Proficiency (Scale) Solider of the Faith.
11: Versatile Master
12: Heavy Shield Proficiency If you really want AC, put Plate Prof here.
14: Toughness Replace with something new.
16: Majestic Rescue
18: Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods)
20: Action Surge
21: replace Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) with Multiclass Mastery (Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) and Adept Power (Corona of Blinding Radiance))
21: Paragon Defenses
22: Supreme Majesty
22: replace Paragon Defenses with Robust Defenses
24: Armor Proficiency (Plate) Something new if you already have Plate.
26: Armor Specialization (Plate)
28: Font of Radiance
30: Triumphant Attack

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see. That's a convincing argument. In order to convince the foe that it's worth not taking the hit you have to be able to look like you could concievably be beaten. I believe the reason Tengu reccomended Plate Proficiency was because Plate Specialization keys off of Constitution, one of the two core stats of the build, while Scale Specialization keys off of Dexterity, which is one of the lowest stats in the build, alongside Wisdom.

[Asbestos]

I see. That's a convincing argument. In order to convince the foe that it's worth not taking the hit you have to be able to look like you could concievably be beaten. I believe the reason Tengu reccomended Plate Proficiency was because Plate Specialization keys off of Constitution, one of the two core stats of the build, while Scale Specialization keys off of Dexterity, which is one of the lowest stats in the build, alongside Wisdom.

I think that Plate could work well if you took Group Defenses (you have 1 more AC, and your enemies have 1 more penalty to hit) and could really hamper your enemies. It'd be about the same as taking Scale and not taking Group Defenses, but creatures you mark have to roll 1 higher to hit anyone at all.

[Tengu_temp]

This is something that's been gone over in other threads, especially in regards to the 4e paladin. You want to defend proactively, not retroactively in order to be a true defender. Basically, you want your marked enemies to attack you rather than your allies. Yes, if they attack your allies something bad happens to them (this is true for all except the Shielding Swordmage, possibly the most defendery build there is imo) but that means they've already attacked your squishier allies! If your AC is too high relative to your fellow party members, then the attack penalty imposed by marking is still not enough to make you an attractive target to intelligent enemies. Yes, the enemy will die faster if it attacks your allies, but it will still be doing damage to the other party members. I think that your various AC and NAD boosting feats have you at a 'high enough' AC/Def and that you can easily forgo the shield.


I disagree. Melee non-defenders are only slightly squishier than defenders, and a non-melee one shouldn't position himself in such a way that the enemies could hit him. I wouldn't call an enemy who prefers to attack the 16 AC ranger and risk an opportunity attack to the face instead of the 19 AC fighter who marked him to be very smart.



12: Heavy Shield Proficiency If you really want AC, put Plate Prof here.


Impossible. This build doesn't get 15 strength until epic levels.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Now I'm all confused. Fullblade or bastard sword? Is there a way to fit Power of Justice and Immediate Justice in here? It'd have to wait until paragon at least, since that's when I get Blessed Psalmist, which gives me access to the Paladin's Channel Divinity feature.

The reason I ask is because I re-read the Avatar of Justice ED, and I really think it's cool, boosts to unused stats aside. Plus, Power of Justice gives an Insight bonus. Couple that with training and the bonus I get from being a half-elf, and it could be pretty good. And it gives a bonus to Virtuous Strike, which I plan on taking as my Dilletante power instead of Eldritch Strike, so I have a power that I can access easily and is in an actual book, as opposed to Eldritch Strike which I don't think I've seen in any book.

I'm thinking of altering his backstory a bit so it turns out that his divine bloodline is greater than any in his family suspected. His astral spark is a fragment of the dead god Amoth, and since he's the last of the line, he is Amoth reborn.

[Tengu_temp]

Both weapons are valid options. Choose the one you like more. If both are equally cool for you, go with fullblade, because that way you have 1 more feat to play with.

[Mando Knight]

...I just realized what you're playing. The Bard of JUSTICE.

You sing. And as you sing, your defeated foes sing. They sing of when they fought the law (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ). And the law won.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Ha, ha very funny, MandoKnight! :smalltongue:

I'll take the bastard sword. It always was my favorite. And instead of Toughness I'll be taking Immediate Justice so I can qualify for the Avatar of Justice Destiny.

[Mando Knight]

And then when you find corrupted courts, you call them out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfoDh1XL2wo) with the power of ROCK, proclaiming justice for all.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Hah! Exactly! I'm like a paladin, but more cool with the high school kids! :smallbiggrin:

[Asbestos]

Impossible. This build doesn't get 15 strength until epic levels.

Whups, missed that part.


And it gives a bonus to Virtuous Strike, which I plan on taking as my Dilletante power instead of Eldritch Strike, so I have a power that I can access easily and is in an actual book, as opposed to Eldritch Strike which I don't think I've seen in any book.
That's because it isn't in any book. It does exist in print form, as a card, in the Arcane Heroes 1 set from the Player's Handbook Heroes Series 1 set of miniatures. Its a very bizarre power though since its a Warlock at-will... but is unavailable to most Warlocks.

[Mando Knight]

Its a very bizarre power though since its a Warlock at-will... but is unavailable to most Warlocks.

Yeah, you have to be a Human in order to even select it. What.

If I were going to allow the power in-game, I'd let the player select his choice of Eldritch Blast or Eldritch Strike. (The latter of which, though, is somewhat worse than the former without playing a HexHammer or similar build...)

[Asbestos]

If I were going to allow the power in-game, I'd let the player select his choice of Eldritch Blast or Eldritch Strike. (The latter of which, though, is somewhat worse than the former without playing a HexHammer or similar build...)

This is probably the most reasonable choice, how I handle it, and how I believe it should be altered to be in the Character Builder.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Makes no difference to me. I have Divine Power now, and I'm gonna take Virtuous Strike for my Dilletante power.

[Tengu_temp]

It's worth noting that half-elves count as humans when it comes to feats, powers, paragon paths et cetera. But yeah, Virtuous Strike is a better deal here anyway.

[Mando Knight]

It's worth noting that half-elves count as humans when it comes to feats, powers, paragon paths et cetera. But yeah, Virtuous Strike is a better deal here anyway.

They also count as Elves, which means that they have access to feats and abilities that do absolutely nothing at all for them: Wild Elf Luck, Elven Arcane Precision, etc. Y'know, the feats that help Elven Accuracy.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

They also count as Elves, which means that they have access to feats and abilities that do absolutely nothing at all for them: Wild Elf Luck, Elven Arcane Precision, etc. Y'know, the feats that help Elven Accuracy.

Yeah. That's one of the first things I noticed when I read the PHB for the first time.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'll work on a new-and-improved build using the suggestions I've recieved. It should be up soon.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Here's the new and improved build:

Geiseric, Amoth Reborn

Race: Half-elf
Class: Bard, MC paladin.
Paragon Path: Blessed Psalmist (Class Acts: Bard article)
Epic Destiny: Avatar of Justice (Divine Power)
Scales of War Background: Merchant Prince

Starting Languages: Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven

Starting Stats: Str 14, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 18.
Level 30 Stats: Str 16, Con 24, Dex 12, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 26.

Ability Score Progression
4: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
8: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
11: +1 All
14: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
18: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
21: +1 All
24: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma
28: +1 Constitution and +1 Charisma

Trained Skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Heal, Insight, Intimidate, Religion (at level 10, when I take Soldier of the Faith)

Feat Progression
1: Deva Heritage
1: Ritual Caster (from Bard)
2: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy blades) (Replace with Power of Justice when you acquire a good songblade)
4: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
6: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
8: Focused Expertise (Fullblade)
10: Solider of the Faith (traning in Religion)
11: Versatile Master
12: Armor Proficiency (Plate)
14: Armor Specialization (Plate)
16: Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods)
18: Immediate Justice
20: Majestic Rescue
21: replace Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) with Multiclass Mastery (Acolyte Power (Wrath of the Gods) and Adept Power (Corona of Blinding Radiance))
21: Robust Defenses
22: Supreme Majesty
24: Bard Implement Mastery
26:
28: Font of Radiance
30: Triumphant Attack

Starting Powers: Guiding Strike (AW), Vicious Mockery (AW), Shout of Triumph (E), Virtuous Strike (Dilletante), Stirring Shout (D), Astral Splendor (U)

Power Progression beyond level 1
2: Song of Courage (U)
3: Song of the New Dawn (E)
5: Song of Discord (D)
6: Ode to Sacrifice (U) (replace with Wrath of the Gods at Level 16)
7: Scorpion's Claw Strike (E)
9: Rain of Starlight (D)
10: Savior's Song (U)
11: Song of Radient Dawn (E)
12: Psalm of Succor (U)
13: Song of Storms (E)
15: Wracking Radiance (D)
16: Song of Sublime Snowfall (U)
17: Turning the Tide (E)
19: Encircling Dance (D) (replace with Corona of Blinding Radiance at Level 21)
20: Brilliant Symphony (D)
22: Ode to the Daring (U)
23: Chant of Bad Fortune (E)
25: Vision Distortion (D)
26: Word of Undoing (U)
27: Strike from Legend (E)
29: Hero's Beacon (D)

The books I used for this build are: Player's Handbook, Player's Handbook 2, Arcane Power, Divine Power, Dragon 366 (Characters of War article), Dragon 374 (Ecology of the Deva article), Dragon 376 (Class Acts: Bard article).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So...no more tinkering needed?

[Tengu_temp]

Why no Bard Implement Mastery? The whole purpose of starting with good intelligence in this build is to take this feat. Also, since you're taking Avatar of Justice which upgrades intelligence, you can start with 11 in it, 14 strength at level 1, and be able to get plate armor at paragon levels. Although I'd personally choose a different epic destiny here - you don't really benefit from this one's bonuses that much.

[tbarrie]

Yeah, you have to be a Human in order to even select [Eldritch Strike]. What.


Wait, what? I don't have the actual mini or card, but there's nothing in the Compendium about a racial requirement.

Edit: I just checked the picture of the actual card over at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20090408a and it doesn't mention a racial restriction there either. Plus, if it were human-only, none of the characters represented in the minis set it comes with could even use it.

[Kylarra]

Wait, what? I don't have the actual mini or card, but there's nothing in the Compendium about a racial requirement.You don't actually have a choice about what At-wills you get as a warlock, you have eldritch blast and whatever one is granted by your pact choice, so only humans have the option for an extra at-will.

[Mando Knight]

Wait, what? I don't have the actual mini or card, but there's nothing in the Compendium about a racial requirement.

You're required to take Eldritch Blast and your Pact's At-Will for your two Warlock At-Wills by RAW. Thus, the only way to access Eldritch Strike is to get it from Half-Elf Dilettante (as an Encounter power), Paragon Multiclassing, or being Human and having a third at-will to choose from. Thus, the only way to select the power as a 1st-level Warlock is to be Human.

[tbarrie]

You don't actually have a choice about what At-wills you get as a warlock, you have eldritch blast and whatever one is granted by your pact choice, so only humans have the option for an extra at-will.

Heh, right. I forgot about that. (As, I suspect, did the developers.)

[Kylarra]

Heh, right. I forgot about that. (As, I suspect, did the developers.)I assume the intent was to give a choice between the strike or the blast, but currently RAW it's not an option.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Why no Bard Implement Mastery? The whole purpose of starting with good intelligence in this build is to take this feat. Also, since you're taking Avatar of Justice which upgrades intelligence, you can start with 11 in it, 14 strength at level 1, and be able to get plate armor at paragon levels. Although I'd personally choose a different epic destiny here - you don't really benefit from this one's bonuses that much.

Because, at least according to the RAW, my implement of choice (heavy blades) isn't a bard implement (wands, songblades and certain magic musical instruments), and thus Bard Implement Mastery does not apply to it.

I know Avatar of Justice doesn't benefit the character much. I took it because it synchs better with my vision of the character. He's the last descendant of a royal bloodline that carries the dormant divine spark of Amoth, the deceased god of justice and mercy whose skull supposedly tops the Wand of Orcus, and since he's the last of the line it is his destiny to rekindle that spark into a mighty flame and become Amoth reborn.

[Tengu_temp]

I'd say that depends on the DM's interpretation. And you could always get yourself a songblade - and some of them are pretty awesome. I suggest retraining Arcane Implement Proficiency to another feat when you get your hands on one.

Also, with that epic destiny, I suggest one of these sets of starting stats:
Str 13 Con 18 Dex 8/10 Int 11 Wis 8/10 Cha 18
or
Str 14 Con 16 Dex 10 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 18

The latter lets you take proficiency and expertise in plate armor at paragon levels, the former boosts your constition further. Both still let you take Bard Implement Expertise.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

True. It's not like this character's a full paladin anyway. He's a bard first, and songblades were made for bards.

I'll make those tweaks.

Will I need to alter my Focused Expertise feat? It stipulates Bastard Swords in this build, not songblades.

[Tengu_temp]

Yeah, but it's just a matter of retraining - remember, do that only when you actually get a songblade.
Also, with access to plate armor that early, you might want to consider switching to fullblade after all. It is, however, just a matter of preference.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You know what? I think I will. I don't REALLY need the shield.

Looks like I've got an extra feat slot now. What to do with it, I wonder? Paladin's Truth perhaps?

[Asbestos]

You're required to take Eldritch Blast and your Pact's At-Will for your two Warlock At-Wills by RAW. Thus, the only way to access Eldritch Strike is to get it from Half-Elf Dilettante (as an Encounter power), Paragon Multiclassing, or being Human and having a third at-will to choose from. Thus, the only way to select the power as a 1st-level Warlock is to be Human.
Wait, you left out being a Hybrid Warlock|Something


@Zousha
Focused Expertise (Songblade) makes as much sense as Focused Expertise (Pactblade) or (Thundering). Its a type of enchantment, not a type of item.

[Tengu_temp]

@Zousha
Focused Expertise (Songblade) makes as much sense as Focused Expertise (Pactblade) or (Thundering). Its a type of enchantment, not a type of item.

What is he supposed to take Focused Expertise in, then?

[Kylarra]

What is he supposed to take Focused Expertise in, then?Whatever specific heavy or light blade he plans on using via songblade.

[Mando Knight]

It stipulates Bastard Swords in this build, not songblades.

Songblades are enchantments, not weapons. You can have a Songblade Bastard Sword or Fullblade, and the Focused Expertise in that weapon will apply to the bard powers.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oh. I'll fix that. Any suggestions for that last feat. Paladin's Truth looks good, but I can only mark once per encounter, so the efficacy of that is kinda suspect.