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yilduz
2009-06-26, 06:05 PM
What feats can give a wizard (or any arcane spellcaster) a 2nd level spell before level 3?

lsfreak
2009-06-26, 06:18 PM
Precocious Apprentice works for a wizard, Complete Arcane (located somewhere in the back of the book away from all the rest of the feats). Need a check to cast it.

Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) works for certain classes. Because of how the spells known is listed for warmages, beguilers, and dread necros (automatically learn all spells of that level upon gaining access), you can use Versatile Spellcaster to gain access to the spells and then you automatically learn them all. It's a bit cheesy, but it should still work by RAW.

Dogmantra
2009-06-26, 06:19 PM
Precocious Apprentice, I believe, gives a single second level spell known, and a single cast per day. I don't have the book it's in though, so I may be wrong.

Awww... Ninjas! Pirates are clearly better...

yilduz
2009-06-26, 06:23 PM
Precocious Apprentice, I believe, gives a single second level spell known, and a single cast per day. I don't have the book it's in though, so I may be wrong.

Awww... Ninjas! Pirates are clearly better...

Then why do ninjas always seem to win? :smalltongue:

Thanks guys. I found the precocious apprentice feat and that's likely what I'll go with. :smallbiggrin:

Keld Denar
2009-06-26, 06:51 PM
Then why do ninjas always seem to win? :smalltongue:

They don't...not when they are fighting the spartan! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!

yilduz
2009-06-26, 07:12 PM
They don't...not when they are fighting the spartan! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!

Touche, my friend. :smalltongue:

But... the Vikings would have destroyed the Spartans.

Keld Denar
2009-06-26, 07:26 PM
But... the Vikings would have destroyed the Spartans.

Hardly...Viking got beat by a Samurai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#Episode_2:_Viking_vs_Samurai)... he's got nothing on the Spartan!

olentu
2009-06-26, 07:32 PM
Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) works for certain classes. Because of how the spells known is listed for warmages, beguilers, and dread necros (automatically learn all spells of that level upon gaining access), you can use Versatile Spellcaster to gain access to the spells and then you automatically learn them all. It's a bit cheesy, but it should still work by RAW.

This takes a bit more then just Versatile Spellcaster, one would need heighten spell, a level of wizard, or something like that.

Yukitsu
2009-06-26, 07:33 PM
Hardly...Viking got beat by a Samurai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#Episode_2:_Viking_vs_Samurai)... he's got nothing on the Spartan!

That show's not even close to scientific. They didn't describe how a katana can cut through a tank.

yilduz
2009-06-26, 07:50 PM
Hardly...Viking got beat by a Samurai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#Episode_2:_Viking_vs_Samurai)... he's got nothing on the Spartan!

This proves that the show is nonsense!!

Nobody could beat the vikings... until the Ragnarok!!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-26, 09:10 PM
This takes a bit more then just Versatile Spellcaster, one would need heighten spell, a level of wizard, or something like that.For Sorcerers you need Heighten Spell, Beguilers and similar can get by without it. The key is that they know their higher level spells as soon as they can cast them, and Versatile Spellcaster enables them to cast spells of a level higher.

Mando Knight
2009-06-26, 10:02 PM
Then why do ninjas always seem to win? :smalltongue:

Because the Ninjas have SAMUS ARAN, DESTROYER OF WORLDS (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MikeNelsonDestroyerOfWorlds) on their side. She'll never side with her mortal enemies the Space Pirates (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpacePirates). :smalltongue:

Chronos
2009-06-26, 10:26 PM
There are also a variety of metamagic cost reducers you can (in principle) use with Heighten Spell, or you could be an Illumian with the Krau sigil and Improved Sigil feat. Alternately, if you're trying to enter Mystic Theurge early, you can use Alternate Source Spell to count one class's spellcasting for both requirements.

Make absolutely certain that you check with your DM before doing any of these things, though. Remember, RAW includes Rule Zero, which says that your DM can allow or ban anything he wants, regardless of the rules. And a lot of DMs won't look kindly on shenanigans like this.

olentu
2009-06-26, 11:08 PM
For Sorcerers you need Heighten Spell, Beguilers and similar can get by without it. The key is that they know their higher level spells as soon as they can cast them, and Versatile Spellcaster enables them to cast spells of a level higher.

Well first of all the book says that beguilers automatically know all spells of a level when they gain access to that new level of spells so unless that is a redundant statement the beguiler would have to lack that knowledge before access to the new level of spells is gained.

Then as per the text of versatile spellcaster one can use two slots of a level to cast a spell that one knows that is one level higher.

Now assuming that the passage about beguilers is not redundant for an example a beguiler that can cast only first level spells does not know the spells of second level that are on the beguiler list. So since versatile spellcaster requires that the spell cast must be one that you know a second level spell could not be cast because it is not known. Then since a second level spell could not be cast the beguiler would not gain knowledge of second level spells.

Darrin
2009-06-27, 01:20 PM
Precocious Apprentice works for a wizard, Complete Arcane (located somewhere in the back of the book away from all the rest of the feats). Need a check to cast it.


Note that there's some controversy over whether the 2nd level spell granted by Precocious Apprentice "counts" as being able to cast 2nd level spells. There were some arguments back and forth with the designers at one point, and they were leaning toward not allowing it, but they never got around to issuing any errata. The crux of the "no" argument boiled down to a semantics nitpick, where Precocious Apprentice allows a single 2nd level spell per day, and most PrCs require "2nd level spellS" plural. Dumb argument, actually, since there are other ways to cast spells multiple times per day.

Most folks get around this now by pairing Precocious Apprentice with Focused Specialist (from Complete Mage). By RAW, it's fairly solid. Precocious Apprentice gives you the equivalent of a 2nd level spell slot. Focused Specialist removes one spell slot for every level of spells you can cast and replaces it with two spell slots that can only be filled with spells from your specialist school. So a Precocious Apprentice + Focused Specialist gets multiple 2nd levels he can cast, even at 1st level.



Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) works for certain classes. Because of how the spells known is listed for warmages, beguilers, and dread necros (automatically learn all spells of that level upon gaining access), you can use Versatile Spellcaster to gain access to the spells and then you automatically learn them all. It's a bit cheesy, but it should still work by RAW.

There are other feats/abilities that can add spells to your "known" spells for Wizards/Sorcerers. Fore example, Bloodline feats (from Dragon Compendium), might work for Sorcerers, while Wizards might have to take Alacritous Cogitation first.

There are two other methods to cast higher level spells.

Illumian with Improved Sigil (Krau), in Races of Destiny. Basically, you pick two spells you can cast (or rather one spell per sigil, and you get one sigil per character level, up to two at 2nd level), and they are treated as one level higher. You can change which spells get the boost whenever you gain higher level spells. Like Precocious Apprentice or Versatile Spellcaster, only requires one feat, but unlike those other methods, works with any type of spellcaster.

There's also Earth Sense + Earth Spell (Races of Stone) + Heighten Spell. Takes way too many feats, though, and generally not available at 1st level unless you can take flaws.

A candle of invocation (as if it weren't broken enough already) can also boost a cleric up two casting levels (including bonus/spells per day), but not exactly on a permanent basis... and I have a hard time imagining anyone who gets ahold of such an item would waste it on that, when the gate ability is so much more infinitely abusable.

yilduz
2009-06-27, 04:58 PM
I'm not doing it for the sake of a thuerge class, it's actually for a feat I want to take at level 3 rather than wait for level 6. Without getting a second level spell early, I'd qualify for the feat at level 4, but not get a new feat until level 6 - and that always annoys the hell out of me. So, essentially I'm using up a feat so I can take another one a few levels early. :smalltongue:

As for the rule argument saying feats and PrCs require spells per day, I actually already am a focused specialist. Epic win. :smallbiggrin: