Brain damaged

[Darwin]

In the campaign I'm DMing the group had an encounter a few sessions ago with a pair of assassins, namely a low level Fighter and Rogue hired by the clergy of Shar. The encounter went as normal, and at the end the party's archer pulls a lucky shot and sends an arrow through the rogues brain. By miraculous circumstances she survives, and is imprisoned with her companion. Later when the PC's arrive at the prison for interrogation I reveal the rogue to have suffered a brain injury, having her sitting in a corner drooling and mumbling to herself.

Now I've decided to go ahead and use the two unlucky assassins as recurring villains, but what consequenses should the rogue suffer? Is there any rules on brain damage in D&D, I know confusion and insanity has a tendency to reduce WIS, but that's not really what I'm looking for.

Any ideas and suggestions on how to play and advance the rogue for future encounters are highly sought and welcomed :smallsmile:

[HamsterOfTheGod]

In the campaign I'm DMing the group had an encounter a few sessions ago with a pair of assassins, namely a low level Fighter and Rogue hired by the clergy of Shar. The encounter went as normal, and at the end the party's archer pulls a lucky shot and sends an arrow through the rogues brain. By miraculous circumstances she survives, and is imprisoned with her companion. Later when the PC's arrive at the prison for interrogation I reveal the rogue to have suffered a brain injury, having her sitting in a corner drooling and mumbling to herself.

Now I've decided to go ahead and use the two unlucky assassins as recurring villains, but what consequenses should the rogue suffer? Is there any rules on brain damage in D&D, I know confusion and insanity has a tendency to reduce WIS, but that's not really what I'm looking for.

Any ideas and suggestions on how to play and advance the rogue for future encounters are highly sought and welcomed :smallsmile:

You can just roleplay. Turn him into a Joker or Two-face like character.

Or just make him plain berserk. For ex,

As you walk in, you see two men who seem vaguely familiar. One looks out into space, drooling and shivering. The other, larger man addresses you, "Hello y'all. Y'all have to excuse Lucky here. He hasn't been right in the head since...well since you know. Say hello Lucky." As the drooling man turns to look at you, his eyes widen. Suddenly, he screams like a madman and charges you.

You can just advance them as normal to suit the encounter. If you go for a berserk type character, give him some barbarian or dervish with two-weapon fighting.

One thing to keep in mind about recurring characters is if you want them to keep recurring than you have to keep them from dying. So if you want the two unlucky thieves to keep recurring you have to give them situations or options that allow them to disengage or get away.

[kopout]

there was a real world man who survived an explosion in a cole mine with a piece of pipe stuck in his skull. Apparently it literally distroyed his ability to find anything funny. Another guy got his head sliced open by an airplane properer and became a gifted artist, but almost in capable of seven simple math. and then theres alien hand syndrome where an isolated chunk of your brain takes over a limb with a mind of it's own.

[shadow_archmagi]

Don't forget Michelle Mack. http://www.pbs.org/saf/1101/segments/1101-6.htm

She only has half her brain, literally. Like, an entire hemisphere just never grew.

[kopout]

And then there's this other guy who had a stroke to the emotional center of the brain, he became convinced that everyone he knew had been replace by look-a-likes because they felt wrong. And then this one guy wound up thinking we all live in this place called earth and... oh that was you wasn't, sorry.

[Faleldir]

I suppose that would depend on the nature of souls in your campaign setting, which is contradictory by default. If the brain doesn't actually contain the "essence" of a character's consciousness, that's just ability damage and he'll get better. Judging by the existence of resurrection spells, it normally isn't possible to destroy part of this essence through purely physical injuries.

[shadow_archmagi]

I suppose that would depend on the nature of souls in your campaign setting, which is contradictory by default. If the brain doesn't actually contain the "essence" of a character's consciousness, that's just ability damage and he'll get better. Judging by the existence of resurrection spells, it normally isn't possible to destroy part of this essence through purely physical injuries.

The Soul is the driver within the human body. Destroying or damaging the brain is like smashing the console; your soul is undamaged but now less able to communicate itself properly or control the body as well as it might, although it will try to adjust and find alternative ways to get things done.

That should be a decent D&D workover.

[Hat-Trick]

Give him a mental stat hit. A sizable negative to each, a big one to wisdom. They might even be close to zero. As for advancement, avenging executioner might be interesting. Make the rogue a psycho killer with an unnerving detachment from reality.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Int, Wis, and Cha damage or drain. Healing magic (greater restoration, whatever) should be able to heal the damage.

Spells can overcome death and lost limbs; certainly central nervous system damage can be dealt with, too.

[BobVosh]

A lot of common types of brain damage to the frontal lobe prevents people from thinking of the future. They are also incapable of imaging a sequence of events in order to achieve a goal.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Give him a mental stat hit. A sizable negative to each, a big one to wisdom. They might even be close to zero. As for advancement, avenging executioner might be interesting. Make the rogue a psycho killer with an unnerving detachment from reality.


Int, Wis, and Cha damage or drain.

No. Don't. Penalizing Wisdom (or any mental stat) in "crazy" characters only serves to penalize spot, listen and will saves. Why should a "crazy" character be easier to dominate and sneak up on? Or in other words, why should spend time building a crazy NPC only to make it easier to defeat by the PCs?

And if you have to "justify" it in terms of "how it works", the crazy character is just as hard to dominate because his damaged brain just full of crazy thoughts not that it's somehow suceptible to magic. And even though the character is "crazy" his senses are just as sharp.

It's best to simply seperate sanity from the mental stats as is done here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) in the RAW.

[Hat-Trick]

Unfortunately, Wisdom is both awareness and common sense. I don't think Crazy people in the sense of the character in question is blessed with much common sense anymore.

[Karma Guard]

A lot of common types of brain damage to the frontal lobe prevents people from thinking of the future. They are also incapable of imaging a sequence of events in order to achieve a goal.

This is more interesting. Mess with the Rogue's sense of time and memory. Give her a clock (or six) with alarms for different times because she literally cannot remember when dinner time is, or time for bed.

Make her unable to distinguish yesterday compared to last month. Each memory is just as vivid as the other, and they're not perfectly in order. Maybe she ends up color-coding her clothes according to the month or day of the week, just so she can keep herself in order. Or just a certain hat or where she wears a brooch, or what ring goes on which finger (give her a minor magical ring so she doesn't need 7 rings.)

Also remember that a lot of brain injuries lead to all sorts of Aphasias, which can be really interesting. Maybe she can't talk, but she can recite from memory, or sing, or chant. Maybe she can only say one phrase or word. Maybe she can't talk at all, but she doesn't realize it, and there's a constant stream of babble that comes out that she unconsciously rationalizes.

A really simple one would just be face-blindness; prosopagnosia. It can be really scary (for the Rogue); suddenly her brain cannot identify her Fighter friend from anyone else. I have a friend with it, and she seriously could not distinguish her fiance from $randomdude when he shaved off his mustache. She could end up paranoid or worried with identification factors, and it could be played more lightheartedly; when all you have to do to dodge an angry Rogue is change your hat, it does make them less scary. :Vc

(a surprisingly helpful explanation: Right here (http://www.prosopagnosia.com/main/stones/index.asp). It involves rocks.)

Don't go for 'lol joker' or 'lol two-face'. Psychosis doesn't (and honestly, shouldn't) be the first answer, especially for two non-major villains. Brain injuries can be so much cooler than 'lol batman villain'.


Unfortunately, Wisdom is both awareness and common sense. I don't think Crazy people in the sense of the character in question is blessed with much common sense anymore.

Just because they're crazy doesn't mean they make sense. It just means they make a different kind of sense. It makes complete sense to wear a tinfoil hat when you seriously believe it'll protect you from the mindwaves that want to turn you into a government drone by the evil nationalist government.

[Tallis]

So far as I know there are no rules in D&D for brain damage. Realistically you can present it any way you want. The effects depend on the part of the brain that gets damaged. There was a case where a schizophrenic man tried to commit suicide by sticking a gun in his mouth. He ended up curing his schizophrenia by destroying the affected part of his brain (this method is not recommended).
If it were me I'd play him as having lost his ability to feel emotions and therefor be unable to relate to other people. I might also give him an irrational obsession with something mundane. She'll do anything to protect rabbits for instance.
Just pick something that you think would make for a good character and go with it.

[Hat-Trick]

Evil rogue protecting rabbit. E.P.I.C. Do that. That is the best idea I've ever heard. She slaughters PCs with merciless abandon, but feeds the random bunnies she finds. Crap, now I have to do something with that.

[herrhauptmann]

So the party ranger shot the enemy assassin with a brain damaging crit?
What crit/fumble table are you using?

At first I thought you were saying the party ranger shot the party rogue, and you as DM were arbitrarily deciding what happened to him...

Since it's a game, and YOUR game with YOUR NPC, I recommend taking whatever seems right thematically. Ignore the real world logic with brain damage, multiple personalities, etc. They'll just pull you into a huge moral argument with someone who's offended because their sister in law was brain damaged in a car accident after being T-boned by a drunk driver who walked away. (Yes, I got dragged into an argument like that with the guy I just described. I didn't find out until after he sent me death threats why he was so offended.)

[BobVosh]

Snip.

Prosopagnosia is neat, but not really what I was going for. Also the watches (hard to do in D&D anyway) is not really how it works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

That is the case I am the most familiar with, and railroad spike to the brain is similiar to arrow, amirite?


an "utter lack of foresight,"

Fun stuff.

[Asheram]

. The encounter went as normal, and at the end the party's archer pulls a lucky shot and sends an arrow through the rogues brain. By miraculous circumstances she survives, and is imprisoned with her companion. Later when the PC's arrive at the prison for interrogation I reveal the rogue to have suffered a brain injury, having her sitting in a corner drooling and mumbling to herself.

Now I've decided to go ahead and use the two unlucky assassins as recurring villains, but what consequenses should the rogue suffer? Is there any rules on brain damage in D&D, I know confusion and insanity has a tendency to reduce WIS, but that's not really what I'm looking for.

Any ideas and suggestions on how to play and advance the rogue for future encounters are highly sought and welcomed :smallsmile:

*chuckles* Reminds me of Trinity is still my name! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Is_STILL_My_Name!)
Though there it was used för pure comedic effect.

[Darwin]

I can't help but be impressed with all these great answers, thanks a lot guys! :smallbiggrin:

First of all: I completely forgot to mention we're running a slightly houseruled version of this HP system. (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/advanced-rules/optional-death.html) Things such as brain damage cannot be fixed by restoration spells.

One thing we have to keep in mind is that while there are tons of cool ideas, I still need to "show" my players whatever I decide to go with. The NPC's motivation is to kill the PCs for revenge, so putting them in a situation where I would be able to reveal such as thing like Prosopagnosia, and still make it clear to the players what exactly's wrong with the rogue would be difficult and probaly not worth the hard work.

Having the rogue fly into a crazy berserking rage is an easy thing to implement, and still quite flavorful. A level or two of barbarian before going avenging executinor sounds like the kind of mechanic I want for that. This combines well with her losing her foresight capabilities, making her take illogical and dangerous decisions in battle.

Another thing I might add onto that is to make her a savant, able to perform within a certain field in ways unimagineable to the common man. She used to do a lot of archering, but that's definitely out of question if I want to make her a berserker (which I really do!). She dabbled a little in poison crafting as well, perhaps could implement this as having her use exceptionally strong poisons compared to the PC's level. Mechanically this could absolutely destroy an unlucky PC, but seeing how she's become a raging lunatic with no foresight she won't ever apply poison in combat, only outside before the encounter starts. I'm starting to really like this idea... :smallamused:

[mistformsquirrl]

Sadly I have no advice... but I will say I very much dig this idea; it's quite rare to see permanent injury, rarer to see non-magical mental injury, and extremely rare to use it all together in a roleplaying device <@.@> needless to say, neat!

[Narmoth]

What about this combination:
- thinking in circles, never changing subject
- bent on revenge, which is the only subject the rogue talks of
- inability to plan, including needing the fighter to plan how to get the revenge
- short tempered, compassionless personality
- dex (sight) wis (planing inability) and cha (personality change) - decrease for dmg. to frontal part of brain

[Zergrusheddie]

Feeblemind. It states that they can still fight and know who their friends are. With a little bit of creativeness, you could make the assassin like a great big beast of burden who's only job in life is to kick the crap out of things that their friends do not like. And they are really good at their job.

[Lycar]

Allow me to offer another suggestion: So these two are evil and (minor) villains.

Still, there is something to be said for someone (fighter guy) who has what it takes to stick around for his buddy, even though he is actually 'damaged goods'.

Just because they are evil doesn't mean they can't have some redeeming qualities. As people I mean.

Also makes one wonder who has been the 'brains' of the outfit to begin with. The rogue would traditionally be the 'smart' guy, but maybe the fighter type has a surprisingly high wisdom (just not enough to realize that going after the PCs for revenge is a bad idea... :smallwink: or maybe he just belives he owes this to his friend) and therefore can think up some workable plans.

And then there is always the question: If they are so close, what exactly is their relationship? Maybe they were more then just 'best buddies' to begin with?

And just to add some more RP opportunities: What if they aren't really that evil? Maybe some of the PCs feel a certain sort of respect or even admiration for the fighter guy being so loyal to his friend. Maybe they can even have a change of heart eventually and turn into allies. Just a thought.

Lycar

[Tsotha-lanti]

No. Don't. Penalizing Wisdom (or any mental stat) in "crazy" characters only serves to penalize spot, listen and will saves. Why should a "crazy" character be easier to dominate and sneak up on? Or in other words, why should spend time building a crazy NPC only to make it easier to defeat by the PCs?

Brain-damaged = crazy, now? Nice.

Damage to the brain will impair cognitive functions like thinking, memory, planning, (Int) perception, interpretation, decision-making, (Wis) and even awareness of self and one's surroundings (Cha).

It does not make a person "crazy."

[Darwin]

Allow me to offer another suggestion: So these two are evil and (minor) villains.

Still, there is something to be said for someone (fighter guy) who has what it takes to stick around for his buddy, even though he is actually 'damaged goods'.

Just because they are evil doesn't mean they can't have some redeeming qualities. As people I mean.

Also makes one wonder who has been the 'brains' of the outfit to begin with. The rogue would traditionally be the 'smart' guy, but maybe the fighter type has a surprisingly high wisdom (just not enough to realize that going after the PCs for revenge is a bad idea... :smallwink: or maybe he just belives he owes this to his friend) and therefore can think up some workable plans.

And then there is always the question: If they are so close, what exactly is their relationship? Maybe they were more then just 'best buddies' to begin with?

And just to add some more RP opportunities: What if they aren't really that evil? Maybe some of the PCs feel a certain sort of respect or even admiration for the fighter guy being so loyal to his friend. Maybe they can even have a change of heart eventually and turn into allies. Just a thought.

Lycar

A lovely suggestion. Would have been a great idea had it not been for my players acting like complete *******s towards them. During the interrogation when the fighter refused to speak they bribed the guard to step outside while they beat him to a bloody pulp. These unlucky assassins have personal reason to seek revenge, and I couldn't imagine the group to find sympathy for anyone who've tried to kill them :smallwink:

Haven't got any specific reason for the fighter to take care of the disabled rogue, and seeing how my players never will find out it's not really important. :smallamused:

[Lycar]

Haven't got any specific reason for the fighter to take care of the disabled rogue, and seeing how my players never will find out it's not really important. :smallamused:

Pity, such wasted potential. But then again, maybe (if you feel like it) you could use the two to make the PCs face some uncomfortable questions about their own morality.

Sure, they are at no obligation whatsoever to feel sympathy towards those who wanted to kill them. But then again, turn this around and the question becomes: Why would anyone be favourably disposed towards the PCs? They may be usefull tools for those who hire them out, but most people would be quite happy to have as little to do with them as possible.

Leave them alone for a couple of minutes and let them do their thing with a helpless prisoner, but be happy when they finally leave.

Yeah, maybe people will toast them when they buy rounds at a tavern. Maybe thank them when they complete a job. But ultimately, they may find that they have nobody but each other to relate to and depend on. The fate of the hero(es). And that pair of villains may be a dark reflection of that fact.

Lycar

[Darwin]

Yeah, maybe people will toast them when they buy rounds at a tavern. Maybe thank them when they complete a job. But ultimately, they may find that they have nobody but each other to relate to and depend on. The fate of the hero(es). And that pair of villains may be a dark reflection of that fact.

Brilliant, as a player I would've been sold. Sadly my players prefer to be celebrated, not scorned :smalltongue: As a DM it's my duty to provide entertainment at the table, if the players are bored it's not their fault but mine (in general ladies and gentlemen... in general!). I still adore your ideas and would love to hear more :smallwink:

[Tiki Snakes]

Imagine how two-dimensional Thog would have been, had he not been a simple-minded man-child of an orc, who likes puppies and ice-cream?

If you want to make the rogue memorable, don't just give it quirks that could be mistaken as it 'working as intended' like being rash in combat and raging.
Obsessive Crocheting, talks and thinks like a five year old and is heart-breakingly dependant on Fighter-chan, is obsessed by kitties (accompanied by a percentile dice worth of house-cats just kind of...following the rogue around. any loot would consist of numerous wine-skins of milk and a bag full of 'nip.), whatever.

Just don't reduce the Rogue to 'Rar, me barbarian now. Yargle!' because it's really uninspiring, and more than a bit cliche.

Personally, i'd say it doesn't matter if you decide WHY the fighter sticks with the rogue. It doesn't change the fact that, as he does, he is the type to do so. HE will have a reason, and plans, even if you don't, and it really adds cool depth to have foes with such nuances. Have fun with it. If the players ignore that whole side, and just gank them at first chance, you can guilt trip them at your leisure by mentioning how, I don't know, Fighter-Chan nursed the rogue back to health and has become the primary caregiver for the rogue, helping Rogue tie his shoelaces, tucking him in at night, sharing plans to use the money from this one last job (killing the players/foiling their current plans) to buy a farm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OfMiceAndMen) and settle down for a quiet life.

[Darwin]

Just don't reduce the Rogue to 'Rar, me barbarian now. Yargle!'

It is in no imagineable way my intention to "reduce" my NPC. But I've already got most of my roleplaying ground covered which is why I'm focusing on the mechanics that I want to employ.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Brain-damaged = crazy, now? Nice.

Damage to the brain will impair cognitive functions like thinking, memory, planning, (Int) perception, interpretation, decision-making, (Wis) and even awareness of self and one's surroundings (Cha).

It does not make a person "crazy."

I was trying to help a dm make an interesting npc who will probably be killed in 5 minutes when reintroduced at the game table. And I was trying to do this in a way that would take the smallest amount of dm prep. And you are bringing these considerations of cognition, perception and self awareness to the discussion for what reason?

[HamsterOfTheGod]

It is in no imagineable way my intention to "reduce" my NPC. But I've already got most of my roleplaying ground covered which is why I'm focusing on the mechanics that I want to employ.

Don't be put off by some of the comments. Being a dm is a lot of work. So anything you can do to cut your prep time is good.

As to an earlier question you had on how to showcase the "savant" talent of the brain damaged thief, I would suggest that might be easier to do if you highlighted the savant effect using the non-brain damaged partner. That is, do something like Pen and Teller or Jay and Silent Bob or even Zeppo and Harpo.

Yes, those are comedy teaams but the same act can also have a creepy, scary effect.

And yes it's cliche but it's cliche for a reason, it works!

For ex, the two npcs could ambush the party after being weakened by a posion trap (set up by the npcs). Before the melee the non-brain damaged says out loud to his silent partner, "You sure were right Lucky. They fell for the trap. What's that?" The brain damaged npc then says nothing or makes a weird sound and her partner concludes with "Lucky says we have to kill you now"

[shadow_archmagi]

The more I think about it, the less a Wisdom hit makes any sense at all. Sure, wisdom supposedly represents common sense, but there's no mechanical role for it. It's just something to roleplay, and you could roleplay having less or more common sense without lowering the number.

The things affected by wisdom are:

Spot.
Listen.
Survival.
Sense Motive.
Profession.
Heal.
Will Saves.

What? So brain damage hurts his eyesight, hearing, ability to hunt and recognize edible plants, his knowledge of anatomy, and makes him easier to mind-control?

[quick_comment]

I second the face blindness.

Then, add in levels of frenzied berserker. In combat he goes insane, frothing at the mouth, etc, and is unable to distinguish friend from foe

[Darwin]

I kind of like how everybody refers to her as "Lucky" :smalltongue: She did have an actual nickname, but it's never been mentioned in my gaming group so I guess I'll have to make a switch there now. Lucky's too good a pun to pass up.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I second the face blindness.

Then, add in levels of frenzied berserker. In combat he goes insane, frothing at the mouth, etc, and is unable to distinguish friend from foe

Any kind face blindness (attacking friend and foe) or confusion like effect is in essence a debuff of the npc.

What this means is that if you design the pc for party level X and give the npc CR Y and the you add the face blindness then the character will be much less effective. In effect her CR is lower than Y.

If you want the face blindness than add 1 or 2 levels to the npc to compensate.

Also, I would suggest that the face blindness only be used on her minions not on her main partner. If the npc attacks her main partner and there are only 2 npcs then that may tie up the 2 opponents for that round. On the other hand if she attacks one of her own mooks, then there is are still plenty of other challenges for the pcs in that round.

[Orran]

The more I think about it, the less a Wisdom hit makes any sense at all. Sure, wisdom supposedly represents common sense, but there's no mechanical role for it. It's just something to roleplay, and you could roleplay having less or more common sense without lowering the number.

The things affected by wisdom are:

Spot.
Listen.
Survival.
Sense Motive.
Profession.
Heal.
Will Saves.

What? So brain damage hurts his eyesight, hearing, ability to hunt and recognize edible plants, his knowledge of anatomy, and makes him easier to mind-control?

Pretty much all of those could be explained by the character being perpetually distracted by mundane things, which sounds like a very reasonable rationale for low wisdom to me. He doesn't notice whats going on around him because hes too busy telling the fighter all about how impressively shiny his new steel toe-capped boots are. Will saves may be different, but as a rogue they were probably never that good to begin with.

[Tsotha-lanti]

What? So brain damage hurts his eyesight, hearing, ability to hunt and recognize edible plants, his knowledge of anatomy, and makes him easier to mind-control?

Er... yes? Those are all mental functions. Brain damage can diminish them all.

Int, Wis, and/or Cha damage/drain is pretty obviously the way to go.

Edit: D'oh, add Dex, obviously. This all depends on where the damage is, naturally.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Er... yes? Those are all mental functions. Brain damage can diminish them all.

Int, Wis, and/or Cha damage/drain is pretty obviously the way to go.

Edit: D'oh, add Dex, obviously. This all depends on where the damage is, naturally.

No. All a wisdom penalty does is nerf the npc. A wis penalty just gives the npc a worse will save, a lower spot check and makes her a worse monk or cleric. However none of that has anything to do with how the dm roleplays the npc.

So conversely the dm can roleplay a "brain damaged" npc without giving the character a game mechanical disadvantage.

If you give the brain damaged npc rogue a lower will save and a lower spot check then you may give her extra levels or magic items to compensate. First, that is more work. Second, that just results in more loot for the party.

And all this because you are tied to the notion that imagined brain damage must somehow tie in to an abstract statistic that is used to determine several different elements in an rpg.

[Orran]

No. All a wisdom penalty does is nerf the npc. A wis penalty just gives the npc a worse will save, a lower spot check and makes her a worse monk or cleric. However none of that has anything to do with how the dm roleplays the npc.

So conversely the dm can roleplay a "brain damaged" npc without giving the character a game mechanical disadvantage.

If you give the brain damaged npc rogue a lower will save and a lower spot check then you may give her extra levels or magic items to compensate. First, that is more work. Second, that just results in more loot for the party.

And all this because you are tied to the notion that imagined brain damage must somehow tie in to an abstract statistic that is used to determine several different elements in an rpg.

Perhaps a mechanical disadavantage is appropriate? Afterall it is probably much easier to kill a brain damaged person. I'm not saying that a WIS penalty is the only way to show brain damage in a character, but I see no reason it isn't an effective one.

[Karma Guard]

Prosopagnosia is neat, but not really what I was going for. Also the watches (hard to do in D&D anyway) is not really how it works.

Fun stuff.

Hey, when you knock a brain around hard enough, all sorts of wacky things start happening.

There was actually a minor villain that had no real concept of time. His sidekick was his watch. :Vc

[herrhauptmann]

Did I ever tell you about Sammy Jenkins?

Sammy Jenkins was the first case I investigated which was real difficult to resolve.
You see, Sammy had this problem, where he'd forget what he had done 5 minutes after it happened...
Remember Sammy Jenkins.


Now, turning this character of yours into Sammy Jenkins (from Memento with Guy Pearce and that Trinity chick) would work great, if your PC's didn't view beatings as an appropriate method of questioning. All that it'll do is cause them to beat him more, because suddenly when he answers "I don't know" to a question, and the party gets a 35 on their sense motive, they'll get frustrated and think he rolled a 36 on bluff. So they'll just hit him more.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Perhaps a mechanical disadavantage is appropriate?
For CR or for what? It's an npc rogue. Say the party is level 5. Say you may the rogue level 4 and a wisdom penalty If the party cleric or wizard has hold person then the rogue may have to roll 17 or 18 to save. How long will that npc last? Will any player remember her? Why even run such a vulnerable npc as a recurring npc?

[Orran]

Perhaps in an NPC they're not supposed to kill? Things don't always have to go straight to combat. Honestly you're not even trying to be reasonable.

Edit: If it bothers you that much, just make the wisdom penalty a flaw and then give him iron will and/or steadfast determination, it works perfectly fine.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Perhaps in an NPC they're not supposed to kill? Things don't always have to go straight to combat.

The OP already said that he wanted the npcs to return for revenge.

Honestly you're not even trying to be reasonable.Huh?



Edit: If it bothers you that much, just make the wisdom penalty a flaw and then give him iron will and/or steadfast determination, it works perfectly fine.
You may be bothered by something but I'm not bothered at all. It's not my npc. I'm just giving advice based om my dm'ing experience for my own amusement. And you?

Now as for your suggestion, yes giving those feats might work if the feats could be fitted in with a level jump or a feat swap. At least you should have stated the feat suggestions when you gave the advice to give the wisdom penalty, no?

And how do you propose to fix spot or listen or should those checks also be necessary? And what if the rogue is also a monk? Or what if the rogue is also a cleric?

[Orran]

Now as for your suggestion, yes giving those feats might work if the feats could be fitted in with a level jump or a feat swap.

Like I said, you could do it by taking the flaw Pathetic Wisdom, and then make up for it with steadfast determination. And this doesn't make up for other weaknesses, which I don't think it should have to, since interesting encounters don't have to be combat based, or of they are a failed spot check in the first round may be interesting. I think you're attributing a little to much combat prowess to wisdom than necessary, and I think I've shown, as have others, that a wisdom penalty is a perfectly reasonable way of doing this so.

[Talic]

Shorter term memory. Inability to process the same level of things. Not able to understand the world around him, not fully.

All of the above can be very frustrating. If he sees the party as the reason for all this? That can induce what some might see as blind rage. In reality, it's rage, anger, frustration over his problem.

Mechanic? Give him the rage ability that some animals have. Badgers, I think. Triggers whenever he sees the one that injured him.

[Brock Samson]

I apologize if this may be a repeat but I don't have time to read all this. How about a penalty to all his mental scores, but he's now continually under a Mind Blank effect due to the unique injury?

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Your solution is good too.

My advice is simple.

1. Don't get stuck on mechanics in a roleplaying situation Make the character as you want. Then roleplay the personality you want.

2. You have hundreds of npcs to play. Don't be afraid to borrow from movies or books or to use cliches. Build your sideline npcs as memorable npcs not fully rounded characters. Leave that to the pc players.