PDA

View Full Version : 101 DM Defeats



VestigeArcanist
2009-06-27, 01:27 AM
Admitting Defeat:

DM: It doesn’t work.
Player: Why not?
DM: You don’t know that do you?

Once in a great while a player will come up with something so ludicrous, so off the wall, so totally within the rules, and so bloody effective that either the adventure you had planned or the entire campaign has just been radically altered or even rendered moot.


Looking at the DM's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474) on this forum, I am wondering about everybody's greatest moments as players, when the most ludicrous actions completely stop the DM (and possibly the adventure) in their tracks.


Bonus points if you cause the DM to chain smoke a half a pack in 20 minutes. :smallbiggrin:

BobVosh
2009-06-27, 02:32 AM
I don't want to talk about it, but I usually allow this to happen when I dm. But I'm not going to talk about it.

Stupid age rules.

Mystral
2009-06-27, 02:55 AM
One time, my lvl 9 Cleric of Akadi was staying at an inn, more or less seperated from the party (a lone cleric of Tyr was with him, but he was fallen).

This night, a murder was comitted. I somehow found out who the murderer was (can't remember, who) and hunted him down. Then, when I was about to commit the coup the grace (knocking him unconcious), the DM pulled his trump card: gaseous form.

My Cleric, being a Cleric of Akadi, just summoned 2 Small Air Elementals and let them go to town on that bastard. After that, he pulled another trick and cast earthen grasp on himself, burying himself in the ground. Soon after, a blizzard started to build (it was winter and somewhat in the mountains). So what to do?

I went back into the building and reanimated the corpse of the murder victim as a zombie. I walked him to the point of the murderers escape and gave him orders to drag the ****er back into the house as soon as he emerged, counting on hypothermia to prevent any struggles.

A few hours later, I had a slightly chilled, but alive murderer to drag to the cleric of Tyr, going "There you go, now you deal with the bastard."

She killed him in the end. ;_;

Justin B.
2009-06-27, 03:38 AM
Our DM set us on our first session of a FR game in Waterdeep, the plot hook was to seek out a famous Wizard living just south of the Spine of the World. He told us to buy horses and food and things. Then I got the idea: "Well, let's just take a boat to Luskan, and suit up for the travel from there."

Turned out the DM hadn't considered that path. He's a very methodical planner, and had a whole overland trip set out for us that I had just destroyed.

"Let's take the boat" has become something of a catch phrase for our group, whenever someone plans to do something that specifically sticks it to our DM.

TSED
2009-06-27, 06:01 AM
My group pulled one of these on me.

So it's about zombies, and the session was all "oh frig we are being CHASED BY ZOMBIES" right? Running through dwarven halls, barely able to see, scary scary stuff.

And they get right to the outside entrance, complete with a big climatic fight.

They decide to pack up and call the session instead of walking through the doors.

Why is this terrible? Because there were a variety of directions they could have gone upon escape and I counted on them choosing one and preparing for it.

Instead, I got to prepare all four possibilities. Not fun.

SilverClawShift
2009-06-27, 08:47 AM
Our party once killed the BBEG (an ancient ressurected vampire blue dragon who was large enough to blot out the sky) way, way ahead of schedule. In fact, we killed him when he first showed up around level 10.

We did it by being too stupid to know we should have been running in fear, wrestling ourselves into a superior position (theoretically), and completely offloading everything we had at the sucker. One player even lassoed him, and we literally had to drag him back to the fight he was trying to fly away from.
Our DM was moritified, and the look on his face was priceless. "I'm gonna level with you guys. That was the end boss, and now I don't know what to do next. So you guys go play video games while I re-write the entire story..."

He has yet to give us any unbreakable rope since that game.

Captain Alien
2009-06-27, 09:00 AM
Our party once killed the BBEG (an ancient ressurected vampire blue dragon who was large enough to blot out the sky) way, way ahead of schedule. In fact, we killed him when he first showed up around level 10.

We did it by being too stupid to know we should have been running in fear, wrestling ourselves into a superior position (theoretically), and completely offloading everything we had at the sucker. One player even lassoed him, and we literally had to drag him back to the fight he was trying to fly away from.
Our DM was moritified, and the look on his face was priceless. "I'm gonna level with you guys. That was the end boss, and now I don't know what to do next. So you guys go play video games while I re-write the entire story..."


It would have been easier for your DM to not let your party kill the boss. I mean, if it was that large, it could have flown away in one round. And if it was that weak anyway, your DM could have changed its HPs so your party could not kill the dragon.

Or blasted you with a lightning and fly away. What kind of ancient vampire blue dragon can be killed by 10th level adventurers?

Kalbron
2009-06-27, 09:02 AM
One player even lassoed him, and we literally had to drag him back to the fight he was trying to fly away from.

Wait, what? How the heck does a dragon with a minimum of 41 STR (ancient blue 35 + 6 vampire) get dragged back instead of bringing your entire party with him into the sky? With that sort of strength it should be as much effort as lifting a claw.

Oslecamo
2009-06-27, 09:12 AM
Our party once killed the BBEG (an ancient ressurected vampire blue dragon who was large enough to blot out the sky) way, way ahead of schedule. In fact, we killed him when he first showed up around level 10.

We did it by being too stupid to know we should have been running in fear, wrestling ourselves into a superior position (theoretically), and completely offloading everything we had at the sucker. One player even lassoed him, and we literally had to drag him back to the fight he was trying to fly away from.

Story please. If the dragon was so big, he should've been more than able to just lift off with the entire party dragging behind.

Also if you defeated it so easily, then it wasn't worthy of being the final boss anyway. Your DM needs more training in creating bosses.

Frog Dragon
2009-06-27, 09:12 AM
Mass Bull's strenght and aid another actions led by the Str 20 Base fighter coupled with a Nat 20? It can happen.

SilverClawShift
2009-06-27, 09:23 AM
Also if you defeated it so easily, then it wasn't worthy of being the final boss anyway. Your DM needs more training in creating bosses.

Thanks for that instant judgment of my gaming table. It's a warm cuddly feeling inside.

He was trying to get the dragon out of the fight over curbstomping us, but he didn't want to do it by saying "nothing you attempt will succeed". We were also running the game partially as a sandbox for testing out our homebrew campaign setting.

I actually posted this story once before here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4378697&postcount=18).

Jalor
2009-06-27, 09:25 AM
My 3rd level Drow Beguiler has a history of this. In only a few sessions he has;

-Convinced a Dryad that fish are immune to electricity
-Pretended to worship a Young Green Dragon, allowing the party to set up an elaborate ambush
-Attempted to Bluff a Suggestion effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#instillSuggestioninTarget) onto a Satyr and rolled a natural 20
-Turned a Sahaugin from Hostile to Fanatic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#diplomacy) with another natural 20
-Repeatedly made near-impossible Reflex saves
-Fooled everybody with his Hat of Disguise.

Eldariel
2009-06-27, 09:32 AM
Hm, once my ECL 5 party killed a level 13 Rogue/Shadow Dancer with a combination of absolutely amazing Spot/Listen- and Grapple-checks by the party, and a bunch of absolutely horrendous Hide/Move Silently- and Escape Artist-checks by the Rogue (it didn't have Skill Mastery due to having too many levels in Shadow Dancer).

He was meant to steal the (magically Aura'd to seem like Staff of Fire) Staff of Power that had ended up in the party's hands (long story); instead they ended up capturing the Rogue and when they got nothing out of him, it was a dagger in the back. That was awkward. I was doing a lot of rewriting since.

Kalbron
2009-06-27, 09:34 AM
Mass Bull's strenght and aid another actions led by the Str 20 Base fighter coupled with a Nat 20? It can happen.

That assumes you're using something stupid like a straight STR check against one another. When something has 41+ STR, it shouldn't matter what luck you have, it's going to be dragging your sorry behind into the sky and pile driving you into the ground unless you've got something close to its raw physical power. Or feather fall.

What a STR score represents isn't linear after all. A dragon of that magnitude is not a mere 4.1 times as strong as a commoner. More like 4000 times.

mistformsquirrl
2009-06-27, 09:40 AM
Brief list:

Party's half orc fighter (level 5, had 20 strength base - this was 3.0 so I gave him a 5 hour Bull's Strength too) did the following things:

A) Ran *through* a castle gate. ... said gate was closed at the time, not that he seemed to notice.

B) Collapsed a roof on several bad guys (and himself)... then proceeded to dig himself out of the wreckage and help us continue deeper into the castle.

C) Paladin (now with Bull's Strength too) and Fighter use the statue of an evil god to ram a hole in the outer wall of said castle, after we rescued our captured party members.

Our DM was dumbfounded. He planned on it being a stealthy mission. (We did, several times, mention that we were all in plate and that 'stealth' wasn't exactly our forte... but he didn't listen so...)

----

My brother offed the good king who he was supposed to face near the end of the campaign (it was an evil campaign) to cement his rule over that section of the world. Level 18 paladin king... gets hit in the head with a throwing knife death attack, rolls a 1 on his save, and dies. (DM did in fact take a smoke break... and glared at my brother all next session >.<)

----

Having j ust bought the Stronghold builder's guide, I built an arcane battle tank with my gnome wizard at the time.

After single-handedly (ok, single tankedly) crushing an entire orc village (an entire adventure), the DM took it away <;_;> it was fun while it lasted though. (I don't blame him for taking it though; it was pretty stupidly powerful >.>)

----

Oh, last one...

Party fighter rolls a full attack against the BBEG in the last fight (this is the very beginning of the battle) ... he critted all 4 times with his 2handed weapon.

I'll add he was level 18 and had a special 2handed mace that did 2d10/x4 crit.

Yeah. The BBEG died miserably; which was especially funny since said fighter had had utterly awful rolls the entire campaign to that point. (I think he said his last crit had been at level 6 before that night)

Oslecamo
2009-06-27, 09:40 AM
Thanks for that instant judgment of my gaming table. It's a warm cuddly feeling inside.

He was trying to get the dragon out of the fight over curbstomping us, but he didn't want to do it by saying "nothing you attempt will succeed". We were also running the game partially as a sandbox for testing out our homebrew campaign setting.

I actually posted this story once before here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4378697&postcount=18).

I stand corrected. Your DM doesn't seem to actually lack experience, just being somewhat soft for the players and indeed one too many homebrewed rules at the same time.

I lost count of the times on your story when the dragon was pulled down due to the rule of cool, plus the fact that it was unable to use any "escape" spell to escape the rope like gaseous form or teleport didn't help any bit, or the ability to lasso it's mouth and then he being unable to untie the knot. Plus instead of trying to bludgeon the other guy to death when it landed it should've simply full attacked him untill it droped uncoscious.

Also, unbreackable rope. It was just screaming to be abused.

Mind you I'm not saying he's a bad DM, quite on the contrary, I wouldn't mind a little bit playing with him.

UserClone
2009-06-27, 09:42 AM
-Turned a Sahaugin from Hostile to Fanatic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#diplomacy) with another natural 20


I would just love to know how a 3rd-level anything gets a modifier of +130 or more to any skill...seeing as how a natural 20 doesn't do anything special to a skill roll.

only1doug
2009-06-27, 09:43 AM
Story please. If the dragon was so big, he should've been more than able to just lift off with the entire party dragging behind.

Also if you defeated it so easily, then it wasn't worthy of being the final boss anyway. Your DM needs more training in creating bosses.

Wow, way to misjudge a GM.... You should read some of SCS's game reports (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112245)

Acrux
2009-06-27, 09:48 AM
Story please. If the dragon was so big, he should've been more than able to just lift off with the entire party dragging behind.

Also if you defeated it so easily, then it wasn't worthy of being the final boss anyway. Your DM needs more training in creating bosses.

Dude - you obviously don't know what you're talking about if you make a statement like that. This is SilverClawShift's DM after all...

Michaelos
2009-06-27, 09:49 AM
(Level 10ish)
Me: Alright, so you're going to the forest, right?
Teddy: Yep.
Me: Okay, you have Thomas Tele-
Teddy: I didn't say we were going to Teleport. It's just 2 hours by Foot, and we have time. Let's walk.
Me: Oh. er... Okay. (Looks at cleverly planned teleport ambush., notes several gaping holes in defense that would occur if walked up to.)

(Level 22ish)
Me: You guys have arrived at the big moment. The fight between Teddy's Demilich Stepmother and the Atropal she released who Neo was prophesized to defeat. Roll for initiative.
Neo: The Solar's Teddy convinced to come with us go first. Do we have enough wishes/miracles from them to tear down the Demiliches magic immunity and both of their saves for a round?
Me: (Looks at books.) Yeah, they can do that. (Note: Critical DM error.)
Neo: Awesome! I celerity into a timestop and blast away with three delayed blast fireballs. Then when the timestop wears off, I celerity into another timestop and...
Me: (One hour or so later in real time...) Well, the Demilich was wiped out some time ago, and The Atropal is now in the negatives. You didn't break it's regeneration though, so it might recover eventually.
Neo: Have one of the Solars do an align weapon and Teddy's Omniblade should finish it.
Teddy: *sighs* I dispose of it.
Me: And the great epic battle is finished without your foes even getting a turn.

(Level 27ish)
Me: Okay, you've teleported into where the divinations said the Cancer Mage who unleashed that massive curse by breaking some of the barrier focuses would be. No sign of him, just some vultures circling corpses and a large stone colossus who begins talking.
Teddy: The same colossus from earlier? (When they were fighting a Phane, a Ruin Swarm, and this guy all at the same time, and were forced to retreat.)
Me: Yep.
Teddy: Have Thomas teleport us back to the barrier checkpoint.
Me: Wait, what?
Teddy: We (Well, everyone who isn't me, since I'm a Bearwarrior Barbarian) prepped spells for a cancer mage, not this thing.
Me: Oh. Well, you find an Elven wizard there. He appears to be trying to imprison the focuses to trap you on the wrong side of the barriers and looks a bit startled.
Teddy: We attack him to stop him from finishing what he's doing.
(One quick Schooling later.)
Me: Okay, I guess you aren't trapped behind the cursewalls, then.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-27, 09:55 AM
I stand corrected. Your DM doesn't seem to actually lack experience, just being somewhat soft for the players and indeed one too many homebrewed rules at the same time.

Seriously. A dragon that can carry 28,800 lbs. as a light load getting pulled around on a rope? That's not defeating the DM, that's the DM laying down wearing a shirt saying "WELCOME".

woodenbandman
2009-06-27, 09:58 AM
My 3rd level Drow Beguiler has a history of this. In only a few sessions he has;

-Convinced a Dryad that fish are immune to electricity
-Pretended to worship a Young Green Dragon, allowing the party to set up an elaborate ambush
-Attempted to Bluff a Suggestion effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#instillSuggestioninTarget) onto a Satyr and rolled a natural 20
-Turned a Sahaugin from Hostile to Fanatic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#diplomacy) with another natural 20
-Repeatedly made near-impossible Reflex saves
-Fooled everybody with his Hat of Disguise.

"To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure"

:smallconfused:

Hannes
2009-06-27, 10:04 AM
Um. I talked my way into a dwarven noble's manor by saying I was the son of his friend who he sent to him to be disciplined, using some illusion spells to appear as a dwarf. (He really was a quite quite perverted half-elf bard, made for fun. A quote that everyone in my group quotes when remembering that campaign is "What the hell are you guys doing? You're leaving that elf behind? What's wrong with you guys?! Elves are unknown fountains of pleasure!", but that's another story)

Anyway, I got let inside, got clothes fit for a noble, with gems and all, nicked away loads of gold and valuables and even got help for our quest.

That was fun.

He died, hacked to death by scimitars which stunned wielded by skeletons a few sessions later.

*sniff*

EDIT: Also, an elvish rogue of mine spent the night climbing the first trees in the world for fun. The DM made me roll while he dealt with other players. He never fell. Epic win!

Kurald Galain
2009-06-27, 10:23 AM
Looking at the DM's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474) on this forum, I am wondering about everybody's greatest moments as players,

Perhaps not the greatest, but

(1) After his main character died, a player made a new character that was (intentionally or not) a complete jerk to everyone, and our characters really had zero reason to associate with him other than "you are all PCs". When this character went about deliberately destroying our ship which we needed, I cast Charm Person on him. That's when the campaign ended.

(2) A heavily railroading DM with lots of mary sue NPCs had a convoluted and nonsensical plot involving magic teleporting everybody around at random for no good reason, and lots of people dying. Eventually we were teleported to the (mary sue NPC) high wizard who could fix all that if only we could explain. Turns out that none of the players present was capable of explaining what on earth was going on, because to us none of it really made sense. Again, that's when the campaign ended.

Eldariel
2009-06-27, 10:48 AM
A) Ran *through* a castle gate. ... said gate was closed at the time, not that he seemed to notice.

How the hell does this happen? I mean, if it's made of iron it's break DC 28. Even with 20 base Str, +4 Bull's Strength, +4 Rage he needs to roll a 19 for this to happen. And if it's thicker than 2 inches...

Shademan
2009-06-27, 10:55 AM
well maybe it was made of wood.
and only re-inforced with iron.

quick_comment
2009-06-27, 11:23 AM
(Level 22ish)
Me: You guys have arrived at the big moment. The fight between Teddy's Demilich Stepmother and the Atropal she released who Neo was prophesized to defeat. Roll for initiative.
Neo: The Solar's Teddy convinced to come with us go first. Do we have enough wishes/miracles from them to tear down the Demiliches magic immunity and both of their saves for a round?
Me: (Looks at books.) Yeah, they can do that. (Note: Critical DM error.)
Neo: Awesome! I celerity into a timestop and blast away with three delayed blast fireballs. Then when the timestop wears off, I celerity into another timestop and...
Me: (One hour or so later in real time...) Well, the Demilich was wiped out some time ago, and The Atropal is now in the negatives. You didn't break it's regeneration though, so it might recover eventually.
Neo: Have one of the Solars do an align weapon and Teddy's Omniblade should finish it.
Teddy: *sighs* I dispose of it.
Me: And the great epic battle is finished without your foes even getting a turn.


In timestop, spell durations dont expire. You stay dazed for the entire timestop. Also, why no spell stowaway: timestop?

mistformsquirrl
2009-06-27, 11:27 AM
well maybe it was made of wood.
and only re-inforced with iron.

This is true. He actually rolled a 20 anyway though >.>

He had a really, REALLY good night. (I on the other hand was a buffbot lol)

DemonSlayer
2009-06-27, 11:28 AM
Group effort in D&D
After spending the first six or seven session retrieving some powerful magic amulet for a wizard's guild (the wizards were the LG, rightful rulers of the country, by the way), our party basically decided the wizards were not to be trusted and fled the country. We ended up some 10.000 miles north of the area the campaign took place in before the DM shut the campaign down.

My effort in star wars RPG
After the previous campaign got shut down (read the above), I joined a star wars campaign the other party members had been playing for about three years or so.
We were headed for the final showdown where a fugitive sith lord was hiding out in some nebula, undetected by the empire. The party consisted of jedi masters, dark jedi, and two sith lords (including me).
As we all jumped into hyperspace en route to the nebula, my character immediately dropped out of hyperspace, went back to the planet we came from, and contacted Vader.
"Yeah, so, remember that sith you were looking for? I can give you his coordinates, and the ETA of 5 jedi/sith who wanna waste him. Bring a big fleet."
DM + players were :smallfurious:.

Eldariel
2009-06-27, 11:32 AM
In timestop, spell durations dont expire. You stay dazed for the entire timestop. Also, why no spell stowaway: timestop?

Eh, that's really not a rational reading of the rules, because Time Stop-action effectively takes place during the Standard Action granted by Celerity, in other words before you are dazed.

Also, Celerity refers to "your next turn", and Time Stop grants you additional rounds to receive turns on, so "your next turn" would be during R1 of Time Stop. The Daze specifically lasts until the end of your next turn, and you receive your next turn in Time Stop on R1.


So you can either read it as Dazing you for the turn after Time Stop ends or for the first Time Stop-turn. Former is more flavourful, latter is what mechanics dictate. Ruling it as you do is a house rule and requires mechanically changing how the spells (or daze from Celerity in particular) are applied. Yes, it's a perfectly reasonable house rule on a blatantly overpowered spell (that you should just ban), but it's a house rule.


This is true. He actually rolled a 20 anyway though >.>

He had a really, REALLY good night. (I on the other hand was a buffbot lol)

Sometimes lady luck just favours the Big Stupid Barbie.

Jalor
2009-06-27, 11:34 AM
"To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure"

:smallconfused:

Our DM rules it differently. Since PCs are unusually skilled and lucky, the houserule is that PCs always succeed on a natural 20 and fail (spectacularly) on a natural 1. So, someone rolling a natural 1 on a Diplomacy check unintentionally offended the person, but a natural 20 just got colossally lucky and found a person who literally responds in the best way possible.

...and last time I checked, house rules are up to the DM, not random internet people.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-27, 11:46 AM
Our DM rules it differently. Since PCs are unusually skilled and lucky, the houserule is that PCs always succeed on a natural 20 and fail (spectacularly) on a natural 1. So, someone rolling a natural 1 on a Diplomacy check unintentionally offended the person, but a natural 20 just got colossally lucky and found a person who literally responds in the best way possible.

...and last time I checked, house rules are up to the DM, not random internet people.

Yeah, thing is, that's patently idiotic, since every PC has a 5% chance of doing absolutely anything.

SilverClawShift
2009-06-27, 11:50 AM
Kind of agree there. You can try to make a jump check to leap to the moon, and if you hit a 20, it works?

That's not being "skilled because you're a PC". That's living in a world where the laws of reality have a 10% chance of not applying.
Which is okay, it's a fantasy world and all, but it does break a little bit of immersion.

Oslecamo
2009-06-27, 11:59 AM
Which is okay, it's a fantasy world and all, but it does break a little bit of immersion.

Says the person whose party lassoes great vampire wyrms and then hold onto it.:smalltongue:

Guancyto
2009-06-27, 12:01 PM
Immersion? Immersion?

Go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb! That's the Gurren-Lagann way!

(Row row row fight the powah)

Anything is possible if it is awesome enough!

etc. etc.

Kyouhen
2009-06-27, 12:01 PM
Kind of agree there. You can try to make a jump check to leap to the moon, and if you hit a 20, it works?

That's not being "skilled because you're a PC". That's living in a world where the laws of reality have a 10% chance of not applying.
Which is okay, it's a fantasy world and all, but it does break a little bit of immersion.

Yeah, but what's failing spectacularly for jumping to the moon? Breaking through the ground and falling into the planet's core. Sounds like an interesting campaign world if you ask me, one where the players would very quickly stop trying to swim through the air. :smalltongue:

Anxe
2009-06-27, 12:08 PM
How the hell does this happen? I mean, if it's made of iron it's break DC 28. Even with 20 base Str, +4 Bull's Strength, +4 Rage he needs to roll a 19 for this to happen. And if it's thicker than 2 inches...

And the Destructive Rage feat is another +8.

Eldariel
2009-06-27, 12:13 PM
And the Destructive Rage feat is another +8.

What does THAT have to do with anything though?

Dizcorp
2009-06-27, 12:33 PM
First ever boss in my first ever campaign. Six players: human fighter, human paladin, half-elf cleric, half-orc barbarian, halfling rogue, half-elf wizard. One mathematically-proficient, but inexperienced DM (moi). Lots of dice, beers and Chinese takeaway, a big lounge and some badly-painted miniatures on an ancient HeroQuest game board. Oh yeah. Game on.

After three sessions of dungeoneering, the intrepid group encounter the evil, village-enslaving drow wizard in his stud. With his two orc lackeys, he bears down on the party, raining missiles on the wizard.

Rogue gets flattened because she entered the room first (silly). Wizard keeps failing her concentration checks. The orc bodyguards get battered by the fighter and the barbarian. Paladin keeps the wizard busy so drow boy reverts to hand to hand combat.

The group surround the drow. Drow wizard, with a longsword (can't remember why I did that), manages to survive three rounds without so much as a scratch from the fighter, paladin or the barbarian. He inflicts a fair few wounds on the group, it starts looking particularly hairy for the now-fatigued barbarian.

But lo! The rogue is stabilised by the half-elf cleric, who, becoming bored steps up to the drow, swears at him in Elven, and one-shots him with his longsword.

I was a tad annoyed, but at the same time quietly impressed.

Suffice it to say greater challenges lay ahead (beating the group at an all-important game of chess was one of the great moments of that campaign!)

Sniff, I miss my life as a DM...

B0nd07
2009-06-27, 12:38 PM
...and last time I checked, house rules are up to the DM, not random internet people.

This.

Honestly, what difference does it make to you what house rules other groups use? My group uses pretty much the same rules. I don't know about Jalor's group, but we don't typically try to break the laws of reality like that. Just because we use a 1 = fail / 20 = success ruling on skill checks, does not mean we kick reason to the curb. So no, we can't do anything because we rolled a 20.


Now to get back on topic:

I can't remember exactly what happened, since it's been a while since we've played this campaign, but one of our DMs has a game where we were hired by a duke to find an item that a group of rebels had and to spy on them. We were later captured by said rebels and while imprisoned were given an ultimatum of work for them or die (probably something not quite as harsh). The DM had planned for us to take either Option A.) continue working for the duke, or Option B.) work for the rebels. We chose option 3.) work for both and be double agents.

TheLibrarian
2009-06-27, 12:47 PM
We were in an ancient Kobold temple to IO when the Drow Rogue who was possessed and planning to kill us (the player kinda failed at being subtle) ran off and attempted to channel the demon possessing her and overlay the ethereal plane onto this one or something, it was confusing and the DM probably would have put in more detail, except that my swordsage ran after her, and as she was floating dramatically with swirling shadows and all that jazz jumped up and cut her in half before she could actually do anything.

The DM was expecting that, but he wasn’t expecting the Sorcerers to magic missile the incorporeal Demon spirit that emerged from her body and tried to possess us. He also forgot that our entire party had disgustingly good will saves (Swordsage, Monk, Wizard, Sorcerer, Sorcerer). So while the Demon attempted to posses us one by one, the sorceres just pinked away. It took awhile but eventually he exploded in orange goo and the DM went off to sulk and re-write the whole campaign. Evidently he was the BBEG

Yukitsu
2009-06-27, 12:49 PM
Me: "I deal 3.65*10^1850, in a blast radius of 3.65*10^1844. The reflex DC is 12, and I have evasion. Here's the math."
DM: *Eye twitch* "gah..."

Me: "Well, I don't have any rope, but I have plently of magnesium detonation cord, so I'll just make him a collar of the stuff and hold the detonation switch."
DM: "That's horrible."
Me: "That's what they get for me forgetting to bring rope. Hey look, I had duct tape. Oh well, too late now."

Me: "The spells duration is concentration. I sit down in my rickshaw and have my skeleton move at a hustle pace for 16 hours. Those guys have to follow and keep pace."
DM: *Rolls dice* "Well, they all pass out from exhaustion. You just captured a group of fighters with a CR 5 higher than your own by yourself."
Me: "Heh. Fighters."

DM: *Rolls a save* "... That was supposed to be a recurring character..."
Me: "Oops?"

And for a moment of the opposite:
Me: "OK, I'll try and raise our boss back from the dead. Hold on a second though. I have to cast miracle first."
DM: "What for?"
Me: "A material is holy water. I don't have any on me, nor do I have bless water prepared, because I'm an arcanist."
DM: "So you're using a miracle to cast..."
Me: "That's right. Bless water."
DM: "Fair enough."

kjones
2009-06-27, 12:57 PM
Our DM rules it differently. Since PCs are unusually skilled and lucky, the houserule is that PCs always succeed on a natural 20 and fail (spectacularly) on a natural 1. So, someone rolling a natural 1 on a Diplomacy check unintentionally offended the person, but a natural 20 just got colossally lucky and found a person who literally responds in the best way possible.

...and last time I checked, house rules are up to the DM, not random internet people.

You can houserule whatever you want, but IMHO this houserule has a lot of potential for backfiring, especially if you allow non-epic characters to have a 5% chance of success on an epic-level skill checks.

To avoid skill-boosting cheese, I find it reasonable to withhold epic-level skill checks from non-epic characters.

On another note, houserules tend to make these stories significantly less interesting. "My fighter killed a troll by himself at 1st level! Well, sure, he has a homebrew feat that lets him overcome regeneration and makes him immune to all troll-based damage, but that's not imbalanced, it's just trolls, right?"

One of my pet peeves is when somebody brings up how they killed the BBEG by using Summon Monster to summon something huge and dropping it on him... awesome, except that you can't do that by the rules, and there's a good reason for this.

UserClone
2009-06-27, 01:13 PM
Yeah, I'm not that impressed that you happened to roll a 20 and your houserule allowed a 3rd-level character to use an effect that he was tens of levels away from being able to legitimately use.

That's like saying that you are awesome because as a 3rd-level character you destroyed a vampire lord with a sphere of annihilation. Okay, so you have an overly-kind DM. *shrug*

Jade_Tarem
2009-06-27, 01:31 PM
There came a time when the group (myself, a Human Swashbuckler/Rogue) and a friend playing a Raptorian Air Cleric (Houseruled magic restrictions) were investigating a slave smuggling operation. We tracked the slaves to a boat and discovered that they were in sealed crates, being loaded up. The boat was packed with bad guys, and it was pretty clear that the DM expected a big boat fight. What he got was this.

Me: "Wait a minute. Let's just sink the boat."
Cleric: "I don't have those kind of spells prepared today."
Me: "You have Fly, right? And you can fly naturally?"
Cleric: "Yeah."
Me: "Ok, let's just grab a nearby anchor, fly above the boat, and drop it a few times."
DM: "You'll kill the children!"
Cleric: "We'll drop it on the front and back edges of the boat; there won't be any cargo there."
DM: "The children will die when the boat sinks."
Me: "Even though you said they were in resin-sealed wooden crates, which should not only hold water, but float once the boat breaks up?"
DM: "..."

So we ended up retrieving the kids and only had to fight the mage, and not his dozen or so friends. Not quite Campaign-destroyingly epic, but it seems to fit the bill.

This was followed up later (after some others had joined) by us fighting a pyrohydra, and instead of killing it as expected, our beastmaster/paladin/thing convinced us to down it and capture it. After some alone time with it, the beastmaster had us a new ally. :smallwink:

horus42
2009-06-27, 01:44 PM
Here's one that I would -never- have seen coming.

I was GM of our first ever Scion campaign. The PCs were currently on a mission to find the Spear of Longinus, to stop the BBEG from getting it and becoming unstoppable. One of the PCs was a Scion of Baron Samedi, so he had access to the Death Purview. I had dropped hints that the last person rumored to have the Spear was Hitler, due to his love of the occult, and the fact that in the Scion-verse, this is true. Instead of going to the vault where is was supposedly kept, the Scion of Baron Samedi whipped out the Death Boon "Summon Ghost", and, well... He summoned Hitler's ghost.

I just kind of stammered, and since I didn't at the time know the rules didn't allow it, I allowed it. I was just too shocked by what he was trying to do to do anything else.

Tyrmatt
2009-06-27, 01:49 PM
I recently got into GURPS and had my friends start of a campaign they've wanted to play for a while. Now, I made several schoolboy errors here. GURPS is not like D&D. NPC people are supposed to be as equally skilled and hitpointed as the players.They're meant to have good gear. They are in effect, meant to be pretty much as good as the PCs and it's ingenuity and panache that win the day. I made some low power mooks to go up against a pair of 150 point heroes.
The opening combat salvo resulted in one character using a heavy machine-gun-esq weapon to fire a salvo on a watchtower.
"Ok roll 3d6"
"Ok, I got 4 overall"
"Uhhh...ok roll damage for your gun. How many dice do you need?"
"Hmm...it says 13d6 +4 PI. What does that mean?"
*I consult the legend*
"Ahh it means piercing so it can penetrate basic armour."
"Is this guy wearing basic armour?"
"Ayeup..."
*sound of a truckload of dice rolling*
After the 7th dice, I told them to stop counting.
"As your vehicle pulls up to the the base of the watchtower, you see blood pouring down the crude wooden struts. What lies at the top is best not described."

The next set of enemies will be capable of actually standing up to rigorous combat...I hope.

The lesson of the day is that in a realistic gun combat situation, the man with the machine gun and a place to brace it for firing, plus extensive training in the operation of such weapons systems is ALWAYS going to kill you.

CrazedPachyderm
2009-06-27, 03:05 PM
Kind of agree there. You can try to make a jump check to leap to the moon, and if you hit a 20, it works?

It's not even something that needs to be house-ruled too much (only have to ignore the maximum height restriction of 8 ft); the PHB has the rules and tells us that jumping to the moon has a DC of 4,765,144,360 (with a 20-foot running start; otherwise it doubles [that is, when the moon is at perigee and is roughly similar to Earth's moon]). If I were DM'ing, if someone tried to jump to the moon and rolled that high, I think I'd allow it. :smallsmile:

DragoonWraith
2009-06-27, 03:09 PM
Can anyone short of Pun-Pun hit that?

Michaelos
2009-06-27, 06:56 PM
In timestop, spell durations dont expire. You stay dazed for the entire timestop. Also, why no spell stowaway: timestop?

I forgot that part. The Demilich had an Epic spell which did counter time disrupting spells. The first time she used it, It was awesome. However, Neo was very good at breaking spells, and in their rematch fight he blew away that buff and then celeritied into time stop based explosions. It really only worked once.

The other reason was because other than a few custom epic spells, I was using the basic Demilich because my PC's were clamoring for the adventure and I didn't have time to spec out a full custom one.

Teddy's player actually pointed out that a lot of my plans have large, easily exploited flaws in them. But they clearly love the campaign since they went from 1 to 27+ and in Neo's case, Demigodhood, and they still play more, so I don't mind too much.

SSGoW
2009-06-27, 07:11 PM
well i was a half elf cleric of corellon and the DM added a player without asking the group (we had 7 ppl ... and everyone already voted in this woman who is a veteran at dnd) well the new guy was a drug head in real life sooo he wasn't all there (yes we were all annoyed by this) well i more or less forced his half orc follower of gruumish to burn down a giant church of gruumish :3 (almost got him to ... ) well the DM was pissed and said afterwards he wanted to give me negative EXP for the act >.> (50 - 100 clerics and stuff died in it) he gave me 50 exp (i thought the roleplaying alone was worth more than that)

Paul H
2009-06-27, 08:29 PM
Hi

Got two - both in the now defunct Living Greyhawk campaign.

1) At an inn, shared by both Humans & Dwarves. Our mission was to arrange a treaty between them to support us in the war. Big fight scenario about to kick off, but my Mystic Theurge cast Calm Emotions.
Big fight over before it started.

2) Big fight involving Umberhulks. Party Barbarian gets confused during a rage, then crits Pwr Attacking party fighter - putting down to about -60HP in one round.
One player uses 'Time Stop' chit to cast some healing.
Next player does the same.
And the next....
Time Stop is a rare one-use bonus from a module. Few people had them - but to have three used one after the other....
(Fighter survived & beat up the Umber Hulks with the Barbarian).

Cheers
Paul H

Accersitus
2009-06-27, 09:59 PM
Our DM set us on our first session of a FR game in Waterdeep, the plot hook was to seek out a famous Wizard living just south of the Spine of the World. He told us to buy horses and food and things. Then I got the idea: "Well, let's just take a boat to Luskan, and suit up for the travel from there."

Turned out the DM hadn't considered that path. He's a very methodical planner, and had a whole overland trip set out for us that I had just destroyed.

"Let's take the boat" has become something of a catch phrase for our group, whenever someone plans to do something that specifically sticks it to our DM.

In my group the players have been well trained to know that boats can
sink/run ashore and so on. Considering the less advanced nature of most
fantasy settings, traveling on the water isn't always safe, plus you always
have nasty sea creatures.

The Gilded Duke
2009-06-27, 10:08 PM
So there was going to be a big airship vs airship battle. And then the Egoist in the party realized that he could use Metamorphosis to turn into a Rust Monster and gain its extraordinary attack powers.

And so the party defeated the other airship by having the egoist turn into a Rust Monster. Having the Cleric cast protection from energy on him. And then the Half Celestial flew him over to the Fire Ring of the enemy Airship.

Once the fire elemental broke free the battle was easy. That their use of confusion lead to the other parties' wizard lightning bolting the Blade of Orien // Pyrokineticist to death made it even easier.

Favorite surprise by a party though was in a Saga game.

So the party was a group of pirates. For this session they were smuggling a criminal however on behalf of a recurring client. While going through space they get stopped by a ship that appears to be the Slave 1, and appears to be commanded by Boba Fett.

It was actually a bounty hunter pretending to be Boba Fett for the intimidation factor. I had put that encounter in to give them a chance to kill a Fett fanboy and steal a ship.

They made some very good rolls and figured out quickly that it wasn't the real Boba Fett. I still expected them to attack. Instead they did something far better.

"Hey Boba! How is it hanging? Its been months man!"
"Yeah, looking for a bounty... oh yeah that ship went the other way. Towards Tattoine."
"Don't forget our standard 15 percent for a tip. Oh hey did you hear about that party on Nar Shadda next month?"
"Everyone who is anyone is going to be there!"
"We will see you there then. Peace!"

A few really good bluff checks later the impostor was convinced that they knew the real Boba Fett and decided to take advantage of the tip that they gave him.

Right after Boba Fett entered hyperspace to head towards Tattoine they realized that they could have stolen his ship.

And so the next session was them planning out and hosting a party on Nar Shadda to get the fake Boba Fett to show up just so they could steal his ship. We made it a musical episode.

Doc Roc
2009-06-27, 10:16 PM
I'm famous for fast-talking my entire playgroup into letting me brutally murder the GM-PC along with the ruling council of the town, and then deploy a meritocracy based on ancient dwarven democratic principles.

I'm also famous for my Contingency->Mending tied to my death.
It destroys the entire plane, much to my GM's surprise.

AslanCross
2009-06-27, 10:57 PM
A near miss in my case:

My party was Lv 6. I was just introducing the BBEG's right hand lady (Caella in my sig), as I used her to plotkill off a PC whose player had quit the group. The character she had killed off was the budding romance of the paladin in the group.

I built Caella up to about Lv 11, making her a supposedly overpowering encounter. In the first round: The rogue and ranger could do absolutely nothing to her due to her high AC and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Both back away wisely.

Lovelorn Paladin attacks with a a charging, smiting Power Attack. Caella attempts Wall of Blades to counter and fails her roll badly. Whack. 1/3 of her HP is gone.

Second round: Caella tries to use Mithral Tornado but only succeeds hitting the ranger. (Consecutive crappy rolls on my part.) Paladin whacks her again for another 1/3 of her HP.

Third round: The wizard, flying overhead, zaps her with a scorching ray. At 5 HP, Caella runs away.

I was so glad I had planned for her escape there and then. I had loaded her up with escape items like cape of the mountebank. <_<

EDIT: Oh yeah. There was that one other time when the PCs were trapped by the city's festival-turned-riot in the castle. With no way out, the wizard cracked open the door and created a Gargantuan-sized silent image of Ravana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ravana.jpg) in the middle of the crowd.

<Me> "...well that solves the problem. The crowd scatters in horror."

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-28, 12:03 AM
I'm also famous for my Contingency->Mending tied to my death.
It destroys the entire plane, much to my GM's surprise.

Contingency...Mending...destroys...plane? :smallconfused:

Could you please explain?

Kris Strife
2009-06-28, 01:11 AM
Contingency...Mending...destroys...plane? :smallconfused:

Could you please explain?

He was a Huge Warforged with a Collossal Drill?

Stormthorn
2009-06-28, 01:15 AM
I would just love to know how a 3rd-level anything gets a modifier of +130 or more to any skill...seeing as how a natural 20 doesn't do anything special to a skill roll.

Unless the DM says a 20 is an auto sucess. I personaly rules that its a second roll added to the first.

Also the rules as worded by the SRD can easily be interpreted to allow auto sucesses with skill rolls. It says they are "just like" an attack or save roll.

Tuttle
2009-06-28, 01:54 AM
For me it was a Star Wars Tabletop game. We didn't exactly have the rule booklet (Gogo 3 or so hours of free time at a Scout's Camp) but we had the campaign and pre-made characters. Apply a little 2nd Edition DnD logic and follow the campaign we go!

Big Epic Battle (To be precise, the battle where the droids lose control of Naboo) and during said battle we managed to disable an AAT (One of the big droid tanks). What did I decide to do? Use my security skill to reprogram the AAT to our side to our DM's surprised, I rolled a 20.

With the luck of that happening the tank restarted and started to destroy resistance to the take over. So much for a difficult battle

Doc Roc
2009-06-28, 11:45 AM
Can anyone short of Pun-Pun hit that?

Yes. DCs can be hit.

It'd take a lot of nanotech, but CO can nail almost any DC, irregardless of how high it is. Never give anything stats that you aren't willing to watch the players kill.

Toliudar
2009-06-28, 12:18 PM
The only time this happened to me-as-DM in a campaign was back in 3.0. 10-12 level party is working its way through a fairly standard dungeon in which ogres and stone giants have been hired to conduct excavations on behalf of the BBEG. The masses of giants are very much intended to soften up the PC's for boss encounters later.

And then the bard downs a potion of glibness, presents himself as the new inspector from head office, and fires everyone.

I feebly work through giants' sense motive checks...and eventually one of them rolls well enough to at least seek confirmation from the current boss. At which point the bard "creates an interface" with the boss (casts an illusion to have him appear - the PC's had at this point run into the boss twice), who confirms his dissatisfaction with their work.

Twenty plus giants and ogres gather up their gear and tromp dejectedly out of the mine. Sure, I could have had the BBEG conveniently notice the commotion, but it was actually MUCH more fun to have my careful defense plans thrown out the window by a PC who hadn't had much chance to shine.

Night10194
2009-06-30, 02:14 AM
The first game I ever ran, the first *session* I ever ran, way back in the 2E days, I spent six hours the week before writing the story, planning the bosses and encounters, including one the players simply couldn't kill. They were supposed to face a siege-camp of low-level goblin-types that they could stomp, then get curb-stomped and captured by the 'boss' of the camp, learn some of the enemies' plans, then escape or be rescued. The 'boss' was a 10th level fighter, vs. a bunch of 1st level PCs who'd just been through a tough fight already.

The second he appeared, one of the PCs looked at the nearest siege weapon and declared: "Screw it, I'm taking the shot!" and proceeded to get a nat 20. The damage was enough to *one-shot* said boss due to the massive damage rules. The very first game, the VERY FIRST SESSION, my players defeated what was supposed to be the major recurring villain in one shot.

And they wonder why I try to roll with the flow and don't plan terribly far ahead anymore... Luckily, that style works well with my players, who seem to take great delight in seeking out the DM Defeat, and since it encourages them to be engaged and to think carefully at the table, I don't mind letting them have occasional, improbable, old-style point-and-click Adventure Game victories now and then. Still...my *first session ever*.

Superglucose
2009-06-30, 02:23 AM
The GM wanted us to diplomance some Sahaguin to killing any enemy troops that crossed a river. I succeeded in pissing them off so much that they decided to kill any boat they saw over the river. I turned to the party and said, "Whelp, our job here is done."

I had to explain it to them, and the look on the GM's face was priceless. I went from "adventure ruiner" to "hero" in thirty seconds flat.

Elixia
2009-06-30, 02:28 AM
i had one such case,

i was sorta the 'miss marble' of group (aw the cunning rogue!) we were given a special artifact for session one with no idea what it really did and only knew it was important. after probing we sorta pieced together it was a prison for a god and siad god had escape from and riasing hell, literally. due to a string of ludicious events we ended up in the company of this god prematurely (sort of a taunting fight to reflex growing power), i figured we were gone get a buts kick, i asked the DM what would happen if i threw the artifact at the god?

i swear i could see the whites of his eyes, and the game stopped for a mintue. the poor bugger. he couldn't think away around it and i would of ended the campiagn only halfway through :smallbiggrin: he begged me not to it. so being nice i made her trip with it instead :smallwink:

Ravens_cry
2009-06-30, 02:55 AM
I'm also famous for my Contingency->Mending tied to my death.
It destroys the entire plane, much to my GM's surprise.
Some stories must be told to the fullest.
This is one of them.

kjones
2009-06-30, 08:08 AM
Unless the DM says a 20 is an auto sucess. I personaly rules that its a second roll added to the first.

Also the rules as worded by the SRD can easily be interpreted to allow auto sucesses with skill rolls. It says they are "just like" an attack or save roll.


To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.

I don't think there's any way you could interpret the rules such that a natural 20 is an automatic success unless you are blatantly ignoring the above passage.

Doc Roc
2009-06-30, 08:39 AM
Contingency...Mending...destroys...plane? :smallconfused:

Could you please explain?

Basically, you can use a piece of clothe and a portable hole to create a toroidal singularity (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18285180&postcount=20).

Random832
2009-06-30, 08:56 AM
Basically, you can use a piece of clothe and a portable hole to create a toroidal singularity (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18285180&postcount=20).

And the DM didn't say "that doesn't work"?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-06-30, 09:25 AM
The BBEG broke into where we were staying, and chloroformed the Barbarian. I was the only one who rolled high enough to notice, and got up, and one shotted the BBEG.

As a monk.

DM had to invoke divine interference, or we would have had no campaign.

MickJay
2009-06-30, 11:39 AM
And the DM didn't say "that doesn't work"?

That happens surprisingly often, DMs get dazzled by an interesting argument or elaborate and clever interpretation of rules and they forget that they have the right to say "no" to everything a player can come up with. Especially stuff that ends the campaign right away. Threads like this pop up from time to time, and almost invariably posters point out that there was an easy solution which would not have led to total disaster - quite often a solution that did not even require DM to bend any of the rules. One of the most important traits of a DM is the ability to keep their head cool and not let the player blow up the whole world with a questionable interpretation of rules.

Doc Roc
2009-06-30, 12:17 PM
Well, remember, the definition of a defeat was:

It doesn't work.
You don't know why.

In this case, it was a sort of off-the-wall\epica campaign, so it was funny enough that everyone just rolled with it.
I'm owed suitable reciprocation, and that's well-acknowledged, so I think it's probably fair enough.

You'll note that I, myself, feel it doesn't work for no good reason. However, real-world-physics are a common argument among rules lawyers, and this is my standard disproof as a player and a GM. It's always been my feeling that the game is a game, not a real world, and sacrifices need to be made to maintain its functionality. If this means your singularity bomb doesn't work, or that you don't get to build a perpetual motion machine, or you don't get to sell poles-from-ladders......

This is the price and it's why I'm a gamist not a simulationist.
Mick, it's pretty clear you didn't even read my post all the way through, which is pretty darn offensive. I, myself, note down that I don't think the game should work this way. That particular thread was for documenting the various silly excessions that D&D's "physics" allow, for the purposes of fun and TO. So don't be a sourwort and don't start talking about "threads like this" or how we always neglect to consider the obvious.

Vagnarok
2009-06-30, 12:52 PM
First ever boss in my first ever campaign. Six players: human fighter, human paladin, half-elf cleric, half-orc barbarian, halfling rogue, half-elf wizard. One mathematically-proficient, but inexperienced DM (moi). Lots of dice, beers and Chinese takeaway, a big lounge and some badly-painted miniatures on an ancient HeroQuest game board. Oh yeah. Game on.

emphasis mine
Rock on for Hero Quest!!! We use the same board with my campaign.

MickJay
2009-06-30, 01:02 PM
Mick, it's pretty clear you didn't even read my post all the way through, which is pretty darn offensive. I, myself, note down that I don't think the game should work this way. That particular thread was for documenting the various silly excessions that D&D's "physics" allow, for the purposes of fun and TO. So don't be a sourwort and don't start talking about "threads like this" or how we always neglect to consider the obvious.

I did read it through, but I was not addressing it, but Random's post - it was a general remark which I think is valid for a lot of the posts describing DM defeats, including many of those presented in this thread.

I don't really see where you got the impression that I'm a sourwort from, but it is often the case that the hapless DM is overwhelmed by a convincing argument and in the heat of the moment makes a decision which is not optimal (for both him and the players) because of the feeling that he should be playing "by the rules".

Doc Roc
2009-06-30, 01:11 PM
There is one rule, given to us by Gygax:

"They don't need the books."

Dienekes
2009-06-30, 01:17 PM
Not me, but my group, playing Star Wars d6.

Underground in Coruscant, a group of evil bug-like aliens are trying to terrorize the Republic or something (not too good a GM, the party had no idea what these things actual goal was) they had some unstable reactor thing set to explode if ever fiddled with.

A friends character didn't know of this. So upon entering a room near the device he thought it would be an awesome idea to just get through all the mooks and maybe even the alien boss by throwing a thermal detonator and running away.

I pointed out that this would set off the reactor.

Everyone at the table agreed with me.

The GM stared blankly at us as Coruscant (and every plot, subplot, character, and backstory he had ever created) blew to smithereens.

Random832
2009-06-30, 01:33 PM
Well, remember, the definition of a defeat was:

It doesn't work.
You don't know why.


Right, but for the portable hole mobius strip thing, you do know why it doesn't work - because it was a made-up rule and the DM decided not to use it.

It's even built in to post you linked: "If it is open, and most will argue it is...*" - DM rules it's not, end of discussion. Poster even agrees with that ruling. "it will contort and be compressed by gravity" is highly questionable as well.

Doc Roc
2009-06-30, 04:44 PM
Er, actually, there's no RAW support for it not being open. Only common-sense support, which I consider equally valid. But I'm willing to concede it. I thought it would amuse people to hear about it. The DMG explicitly states that D&D runs on normal physics, just with magic. This is obviously stupid, but it is there. So while the mobius bomb is ridiculous, and tremendous breach of intent, it's not specifically RAW illegal. Just dumb and silly and funny.

Random832
2009-06-30, 10:06 PM
Er, actually, there's no RAW support for it not being open. There's no RAW support for it being open. Or for the weird gravity effects, or for that matter for "slides out at an angle".

The point is, it's not something there are rules for at all, so it's legitimately the DM's call.

waterpenguin43
2009-06-30, 10:26 PM
It's not the best but: Once in our party (as level threes) we were stuck at a strange "Hungry face" we had tried throwing rocks and rope at it, but they were blasted to bits. So as we were all standing there, I got bored and tried to bull rush a psychopatic gnome bard towards it. After taking his 1d6 sonic damage, he got mad and threw the mask at me, also doing 1d6 sonic. Behind us was a powerful cloud of tiny beholder-like things. A bit after that, we found some treasure and I tried to sneak away. Then him and our fighter attacked me. I would have kicked their buts with the paladin in the party, but he coudn't come to the session. So then I jumped down a well trying to get away.

Doc Roc
2009-06-30, 10:40 PM
There's no RAW support for it being open. Or for the weird gravity effects, or for that matter for "slides out at an angle".

The point is, it's not something there are rules for at all, so it's legitimately the DM's call.

Everything is legitimately the DM's call. There are precedents, but not rules for it. :: shrugs ::

Cute_Riolu
2009-06-30, 10:50 PM
Also if you defeated it so easily, then it wasn't worthy of being the final boss anyway. Your DM needs more training in creating bosses.

...! You dare imply that the greatest DM in all the land needs training?! To me, cultists of SilverClawShift! We must smite this infidel!

SilverClawShift
2009-06-30, 11:08 PM
The opinions of strangers mean about as much as watercolors in a hurricane. No need to get riled up about it.

Loki Eremes
2009-06-30, 11:11 PM
Maybe youre all going to laugh with this,
but i KO myself with a simple jump

how? easy: Extreme Leap and a NAT20 jump in a 15ft high cave with stalactites & NAT1 tumble
that was 1d4 + 2d6 + 1d4

how much i needed to get unconsious? 17
how much damage i took? 18

YAY!

the funny part is that i was the only member left (3), and i only have to deal about 3 damage to that mothafuking choker.


Loki: ...
Party: .......
Dm: .... soooo, you wake up at the church....

Llama231
2009-06-30, 11:15 PM
I once took out a fortress of Orcs with bluff and a copper piece, turned the other enemy (kobalds) on them by tricking them into thinking that the orcs killed the mini dragon-god (an overpowered sand dragon, which we buried in glass by having the ground attack fire and messing with its mind, and causing it, if it ever escapes, to kill the kobalds, and previously in the same adventure tricked a ghost into flying out of the planet's atmosphere. At level 2ish. Yay for 4e rules issues! ^.^

Cute_Riolu
2009-06-30, 11:24 PM
The opinions of strangers mean about as much as watercolors in a hurricane. No need to get riled up about it.

:P Stupid internet and its lack of sarcasm. I'm kidding.

Random832
2009-06-30, 11:26 PM
Everything is legitimately the DM's call.

"legitimate" as in "making the call does not mean admitting defeat" in the way e.g. "It just doesn't work, even though it should, because it will break my story" does.

Myrmex
2009-07-01, 01:29 AM
Thanks for that instant judgment of my gaming table. It's a warm cuddly feeling inside.

He was trying to get the dragon out of the fight over curbstomping us, but he didn't want to do it by saying "nothing you attempt will succeed". We were also running the game partially as a sandbox for testing out our homebrew campaign setting.

I actually posted this story once before here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4378697&postcount=18).

VERY epic.

I can't help but wonder- shouldn't half of you been cowering in fear from its fear aura?


M-Attempted to Bluff a Suggestion effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#instillSuggestioninTarget) onto a Satyr and rolled a natural 20
-Turned a Sahaugin from Hostile to Fanatic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#diplomacy) with another natural 20

And that's why there's nothing special about getting a Nat 20 on a skill check.
Though with glibness up, instilling a suggestion isn't THAT hard for a midlevel beguiler.


Yes. DCs can be hit.

It'd take a lot of nanotech, but CO can nail almost any DC, irregardless of how high it is. Never give anything stats that you aren't willing to watch the players kill.

:smallconfused:
I give things stats so when my players complain about DM fiat wiping the party, I can hand them the sheet and gloat.

quick_comment
2009-07-01, 01:40 AM
BBEG attacks the party. He was just supposed to swoop down, terrorize them a bit and fly away.

The artificer infused his bow with the coup de grace enchantment. He then landed a critical, the BBEG rolled a 1 and was paralyzed for 1 round. He hit the ground like a rock, and the barbarian came up and gave a raging power attack coup de grace.

Myrmex
2009-07-01, 01:44 AM
BBEG attacks the party. He was just supposed to swoop down, terrorize them a bit and fly away.

The artificer infused his bow with the coup de grace enchantment. He then landed a critical, the BBEG rolled a 1 and was paralyzed for 1 round. He hit the ground like a rock, and the barbarian came up and gave a raging power attack coup de grace.

CdG is a full round action....

quick_comment
2009-07-01, 01:45 AM
CdG is a full round action....

5ft step + reach weapon got him in range.

Doc Roc
2009-07-01, 06:35 AM
:smallconfused:
I give things stats so when my players complain about DM fiat wiping the party, I can hand them the sheet and gloat.

I tend to find it more convenient to not wipe the party in the first place..... I think the entire concept of a DM defeat implies something fundamentally adversarial in the game that I just don't see in it. Maybe that's just me projecting. :)

kjones
2009-07-01, 08:18 AM
I tend to find it more convenient to not wipe the party in the first place..... I think the entire concept of a DM defeat implies something fundamentally adversarial in the game that I just don't see in it. Maybe that's just me projecting. :)

I'm hard pressed to believe that you see the game as non-adversarial, after seeing your trick in the Test of Might:

The three greater glyph seals. That's just nasty, man. :smallbiggrin:

UserClone
2009-07-01, 11:16 AM
And that's why there's nothing special about getting a Nat 20 on a skill check.
Though with glibness up, instilling a suggestion isn't THAT hard for a midlevel beguiler.

Not only can't a 3rd-level Beguiler cast Glibness in the first place, but since when is 3rd-level "mid?":smallconfused: I was hoping not to have to beat a dead horse, but you shoved the riding crop in my hand.

Doc Roc
2009-07-01, 01:59 PM
I'm hard pressed to believe that you see the game as non-adversarial, after seeing your trick in the Test of Might:

The three greater glyph seals. That's just nasty, man. :smallbiggrin:

The test of might IS explicitly adversarial, and I gave him three checks instead of the one he ought to have had by RAW. :: gentle smile :: Then I helped him with gear, feats, and skills as he rebuilt his party. :)

fetfet
2009-07-01, 06:32 PM
The BBEG broke into where we were staying, and chloroformed the Barbarian. I was the only one who rolled high enough to notice, and got up, and one shotted the BBEG.

As a monk.

DM had to invoke divine interference, or we would have had no campaign.

DM for this. It was bad. :smallbiggrin:

anywho.

DM brought out a storm giant against lvl 15s, supposedly to punish us. Giant swallowed me(Wiz15), and I Polymorphed into a blue dragon. Titan expolded. Turns out, he was the BBEG of the adventure.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-01, 06:49 PM
The test of might IS explicitly adversarial, and I gave him three checks instead of the one he ought to have had by RAW. :: gentle smile :: Then I helped him with gear, feats, and skills as he rebuilt his party. :)

I really wish I had the time, or mental energy to try the Test of Might myself (or the test of spite, infact).
Unfortunately, I'm so rusty at 3rd ed stuff that it's just not likely to happen.

If you ever do a 4th ed one, man. I'll have to give up sleep or something.


That's all. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

NB; Creature's who attack by swallowing you alive deserve to die very slowly and horribly when you open their stomach up on the inside. Don't give me that 'Closes the wound by muscular action' nonsense. bah!

holywhippet
2009-07-01, 07:09 PM
Our 3.0 game once had the DM somewhat stunned since we did the very unexpected. While trying to reach a goblin held tower we came across a small wooden fort they'd built. We decided to split the party and attack from either side. While group A was sneaking around it a knight wearing the heraldry of a local baron rode up to the fort and gained entrance. The appearance of this guy was supposed to be part of something we'd be looking into later. However, soon after the attack on the fort began my monk ran up to the fort, climbed on top, and had the idea of pouring alchemists fire in through a hole in the roof.

The fort was soon blazing and the knight tried to flee on his horse. By that time the rest of the party had reached the fort. The dwarvern fighter smacked the horse with his hammer as it ran past. It did damage but the horse kept going. The ranger/sorcerer however cast sleep on the horse which sent the knight down to the ground. He got back up and charged back towards us.

Our DM honestly had expected him to get away, but our "never let XP flee" attitude prevented that. To make things worse, he was a level 8 fighter and began laying the smack down on our party. Luckily one of my monks' flurry of blows included a hit and a critical hit on him. He responded by sending my monk into negative HP but our fighter managed to take him down.

Problem was, he wasn't in the service of a local baron, he was the local baron and he'd been negotiating with the barghest leader of the goblins. It might have been morally dubious but it was lawful. We carted him back to another baron we worked for and he apparently released (I think our DM had to work things so we could face him later). We got a nice bundle of XP for this though - but it might have caused problems later in the campaign if it hadn't ended.



DM brought out a storm giant against lvl 15s, supposedly to punish us. Giant swallowed me(Wiz15), and I Polymorphed into a blue dragon. Titan expolded. Turns out, he was the BBEG of the adventure.

Was it a regular polymorph spell? Being in cramped quarters inside the giant I'd question whether you could manage the somatic component of the spell. Not to mention the verbal component (you'd be smothered) or the concentration check (stomach acid).

VestigeArcanist
2009-07-01, 10:07 PM
DM brought out a storm giant against lvl 15s, supposedly to punish us. Giant swallowed me(Wiz15), and I Polymorphed into a blue dragon. Titan expolded. Turns out, he was the BBEG of the adventure.

It sounds like Polymorph into any object or shapechange... in which case, very Vaarsuvius if you.

Catbeard
2009-07-01, 10:59 PM
A game I was running a few years back had a bit of a player induced hiccup... the group I was in swear by the dice, and if it rolls a fatality you just gotta suck it up. So anyway a powerful but arrogant scientist noble had convinced the players to join forces with him to find a 'Lost Island' homage to Isle of Dread and King Kong and the like. The NPC, a particular favourite of mine, had been a victim of demonic magic years before and could only interact with the world by inhabiting a steampowered suit of armour (yeah spot the Hellboy influence) needless to say he'd lost much of his humanity, and had no qualms about using a bizzarro ritual that revealed each character's greatest fears to one another before the quest began... which had totally rubbed them the wrong way, especially the very insular and private earth monk PC....

... so after much hardship they find the island, and though the NPC noble does himself no favours with his grating personality, he does prove his worth and is essential to the success of their mission once they've found the island. But it's hard going, tropical mountains and dense jungles, and while the party's scaling up a rocky slope, the NPC noble fumbles his climb check and falls.... I always give my PCs one chance to change a dreadful outcome, and as it so happens the marching order has the earth monk as the only person behind the NPC noble. "OK –*you have one chance to save him from his fall, give me a Dex check to grab him...." to which the earth monk gave a polite. "No."

... probably not the worst thing in the world, and the monk assumes that the NPC will have a bit of a tumble and end up a bit bruised and embarrassed. But the dice have something else in mind. Several utterly dreadful rolls later, the NPC noble lies at the bottom of the cliff with a jagged branch punched right through the gap in his armoured faceplate, brains seeping outwards. Key NPC dead, players' mission in jeopardy; the argument that ensued nearly ended the game, though it worked itself out in the end. There was a lot of RP xp handed out at the end of that night... and while the NPC's death didn't end the campaign, it did turn the heat up for the players.

Sissyphus
2009-07-02, 12:19 AM
The best my group ahs done was with a 7th level party, we weer crossing to an island on a canoe (we didn't know there was a bridge), and we got attacked by a Huge water elemental and two Aboleths, as it turns out the elemntal which was trying to capsize our ride was summoned with a modified Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals, now the summoner was on an island about 400 ft away (the wizard could've fireballed it, but hadn't checked the spell text) so our druid takes off with air walk, goes over and drops call lightning directly on the bowl elimnating the elemantal, then proceeds to kill the mage (the only decent level spellcaster our enemies had) while the rest of us killed to Aboleths (three people, level 7 vs two cr 7's) apparently we were supposed to lose, but when we slew one (paladin crits with a bastard sword held in two hands following a fireball and two lightning bolts) the other comes up to kill the mage who had used his hand for the spell continuous flame earlier in the campaign (he usually wears a gauntlet so no one knows) rips the gauntlet off and yells if you come any closer I'll reach down your throat grab your heart and use so many scorching rays they won't be able to find anything other than your toes! (he then rolls a natural 20 on intimidate +5 for the flaming hand of death) when it flees he promptly kills it with 3 scorching rays, totally screwed the campaign up, because we waltzed past all the guards to the big bad (we later discovered 20 zombie warriors on the bridge we were supposed to cross) and owned him, the dm decided to keep the campaign going by reanimating him with an artifact he magically was holding, and he took off to serve his fiendish masters as an undead zombie, but it broke his game for a while