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Solace
2006-01-23, 02:00 PM
Hey all,

I had an idea for a variant build on characters. I was planning on starting a new low-level campaign sometime soon. However, our current group just finished up a high level campaign (16th level, built from 3rd), and are currently in a mid level Gestalt campaign. I personally dislike Gestalt from a GM perspective, but I wanted to come up with an idea that would keep my players interested without worrying about how they would feel starting as 1st level weaklings. This is what I came up with. Please critique as you see fit.


Talented Characters [Variant Character Build]

Premise:
A Talented character is a variant build designed for slightly more difficult campaigns and to allow characters to become more capable than normal 3.5 building allows. It is also designed with the goal of allowing characters to develop a little more flavor.

General Concept:
Put simply, a Talented character is a “watered down” Gestalt character, with a little more restriction on character progression. However, Talented characters will not have quite as much as an effect on the encounter difficulty as Gestalt.

Building the character:
When a player builds a Talented character, he chooses two classes: a primary class and a secondary class (his talent). At every odd numbered level, the character gains a level in his primary class. Every even numbered level, the character gains the better benefits of his primary and secondary class, just as in a Gestalt campaign.
Example: Player John wants to create Orin, a Talented human Rogue/Fighter. At first level, John builds Orin as a normal 1st level Rogue. At second level, John compares the entries in the PHB for a 2nd level Rogue and a first level Fighter. He gains +1 to base attack (same for both) +1 to Ref saves (Rogue), +2 to Fort saves (Fighter), d10 hit die (Fighter), Evasion (Rogue), Bonus Feat (Fighter), and 8+ skill points (since Rogues get more), but can use them for Rogue or Fighter skills. He also gains weapon and armor proficiencies (Fighter). (It should be noted like all multi-class characters, the character only gets max HP and x4 skills when they build their first level character)
Now, Orin is a 2nd level Rogue/1st Level2nd level character with 2 HD, and is slightly more powerful than a regular character, but not as much so as Gestalt. When Orin becomes third level, he gains another Rogue level, and at 4th, another Fighter and Rogue level.

Adding another class:
In order to maintain balance, Talented characters face certain restrictions.
--A Talented character may never have more than THREE classes—
A Talented character has the option to gain another class as normal. This can be a Prestige class or a base class. He must still meet the requirements for any Prestige class, but he can use his abilities from either class to do so. Once the character chooses a third class, whether Prestige or base, he may not add any more classes to his character.
--Prestige classes are more powerful than normal classes, and cost more— In order to keep balance and prevent at least some number maximizing, a Talented character that picks up a Prestige class must effectively ‘hold’ their other classes.
Example: Orin has reached 6th level. He is now a 6th level Rogue/3rd level fighter. John decides to make his character an assassin. At 7th level, he adds one level of assassin to his character. When his character reaches 8th level, he can either add another level of Assassin, or he can add what he would have gotten at 7th level, one level of Rogue.
This is designed to stop players from only taking the Prestige classes when they would only get a single class’s benefits. However, note that if at level 8, Orin gains another level of Rogue (Becoming 7th Rogue/3rd Fighter/1st Assassin) at level 9, Orin can add either an Assassin level or a Rogue/Fighter level). (See charts below)
--In this Variant, base classes are considered Prestige classes—
The advantage of this for players is that XP penalties never come into effect. For example, Orin has reached 6th level. Instead of a Prestige class, John chooses to add Ranger levels to his character. The character is built same as in the above example, just substituting Assassin for Ranger. At 7th level, Orin can add either a Ranger level or a Rogue level. If he chooses Ranger, at 8th level, Orin can add, again, either a Ranger level or a Rogue level.
--The secondary class can never be changed—
The secondary class can never be altered or substituted for any other class. The player, for example, cannot choose to have a Wizard class as a secondary for levels 1-8, then choose to do Paladin as secondary from then on. The character doesn’t have to choose for sure upon character creation, but they have to choose at second level (unless they “prestige” at that level). Once they take a ‘dual’ level, the choice is permanent.
NOTE: This variant can be used with creatures that have Level adjustments.
A character that has a LA of +1 can choose a primary at level 2 and a primary/secondary level at 3.
Design notes:
As mentioned above, one of the biggest reasons for this design is character flavor. Players who want just a little bit more from their characters can get it. “I wish my monk has a few more options.” “I wish my sorcerer was skilled at something other than magic.”
Also, for the GM, this isn’t as misbalancing as other variants. For example, in Gestalt, a character might design a Fighter/Wizard with the initial concept of using his spells to effect his combat abilities. That may be the intention, but as a GM you would have to account for the fact he can cast Teleport at 9th level, Disintigrate at 11th level, etc.
With this build, you don’t have to worry about that. A Fighter/Wizard with this build wouldn’t get Teleport until 18th level. As a GM, you can account for the characters having a smattering of extra abilities without dealing as if you had twice as many characters.

Charts: (P=Primary, S=Secondary, Pr=Prestige, B =2nd Base)
Examples: Normal Prestige Extra Base
Level:
1 P P P
2 P/S P/S B
3 P P P/S
4 P/S P/S B
5 P P P
6 P/S P/S P/S
7 P Pr B
8 P/S P P
9 P Pr P/S
10 P/S P/S B

Edit: I can't get the chart to show up perfectly. Hopefully it makes sense as it shows

TomBoniface
2006-01-23, 03:03 PM
MY understanding of "Gestalt" classes was that they were a one time "NEw Class" created with the character. So that a Ranger/Wizard gestalt could upon advancing from level 1 to 2 take another level of Ranger/Wizard Gestalt or take any standard class in the PHB, but canot mix and match his classes so that at second level he took "A level of Wizard and a Level of Monk"
Either he takes a Level of Ranger/Wizar Gestalt, OR he takes a level of Monk.
Having said that I have only read that particular book once, so I might be misremembering. Look again at gestalt and be very careful to note the wording used; it might not be as strong as many people think.

Renloth
2006-01-23, 03:16 PM
Incorrect. When a gestalt character levels up, they chose any two base classes (or one PrC and a base class, but not two PrC's) and gain one level in each.

Example:
You create a gestalt Ranger 1/Fighter 1.
At next level you select ranger and Wizard.
You are now a Ranger 2/ Fighter 1/ Wizard 1.

Info here: Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm#buildingAGestaltCharacter)

TomBoniface
2006-01-23, 06:01 PM
I see now that yuo are correst Renloth. I think that IF I used gestalt characters I would use the Variant which I described.