OOTS #666 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Timberboar]

I was online? Really? Yay!

Edit: Nice. O-chul steals the show as always, and we get an answer to exactly how much Roy remembers.

Feels like things are winding down to a splash page to me.

[Olorin Maia]

sweet, is this the end of the arc?

man, if i didn't have to log in i would totally have had first post. that is kinda unfortunate.

[Lorn]

"I will gut you with my hands."

O-Chul FTW.

Aside from that.. seven weeks? Interesting...

[Lira]

Heh. Loved the punchline. :P

It looks like we're in the arc's denouement now. I'm looking forward to the next one now. :D

[Maelstrom]

Most excellent...good to see things wrapping up on this front

[Starscream]

O-Chul remains awesome as ever.

And it's great to see Haley and Roy interacting again. I really missed "bet you ten gold".

[pyrefiend]

All the 666 speculators are gonna be pissed. :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

Can EVERYONE who was going nuts over it shut up now about the number? :smallsigh:

Not only were there zero fiendish references, there was actually a heavenly one.

[Xvos]

Looking forward to seeing how belkar dies/ has his prophecy fulfilled :). Its the one I've been looking forward to most since they were predicted.

[Istari]

That was heartwarming :smallsmile:

[Alteran]

Excellent comic, I'm glad I was here to see it so quickly. I can't tell if this is the end of the arc. It looks like a good ending point, but there was no splash page. Hopefully we'll get a few more before the long wait. :smallsmile:

Also: O-Chul was as awesome as ever, even if he was only in one panel. I guess this also answers the questions people had about how he would react to seeing Belkar.

[Mauve Shirt]

"Do it to someone else and I will gut you with my bare hands." :smallbiggrin: Amazing.

Good title, too.

[Totally Guy]

That's so sweet.

And really good to have a sense of scale to the Belkar prophesy.

[Venedlor]

First time posting on one of these topics. All I can say is wow!!! O'chul really showed his stuff! Very well done!

[Lissou]

I wonder if they will pull it off...

If that's the case, then Belkar might not die until the end of the strip. That's interesting.

Nice landscape, too, I like the sunset. And it's nice having Roy back, and having things explained about what he remembers or not.

EDIT: usually Rich warns us when it's the end of a book. I'd say it's not until proven otherwise.

[Killer Angel]

LOL...
It's always good to see how the Giant screw all the hypotesis related to the number of the strip... :smallbiggrin:

Still, it's a strip full of interesting informations!

[mindsword]

I like how Haley's mind works. Mind you I never would have thought of that particular idea, so I'm even more impressed. Too bad Roy had to forget about his brother and mother. Hope that'll be remember next time. "Prove your my mother." isn't exactly the best greeting, but saying it twice would hurt.

Well, the O-Chul kills Belkar thing is a bust, but we kinda already suspected that. Wasn't expecting exactly how they resolved it, but heh.

[olthar]

hmm, so we now know that a year will have passed in 7 in-comic weeks from hmm.... how many comics does that mean till belkar's death(comic calculators do your maths!)

edit: did it myself oracle first said it in #329, so 666-329 = 337 / 45 = 7.488 so we might expect belkar to die within the next 52 comics or so

[Voshkod]

I like the sunset shot. Very nicely done.

[fangthane]

Ha, where's my cookie for reading O-Chul's attitude re: Belkar correctly? ;)

Seriously, good comic Giant, some nice wrap-up items for those of us speculating on memory, Belkar's "reformation" and other details.

Edit - and now we know how close to the new year it is, in-comic. Thanks for that. :)

[The Guardian]

So many questions answered in just one comic!! :)

[Flickerdart]

O-Chul, both unerringly polite and brutally awesome at the same time.

7 weeks is a long time, though. Even with 8 hours for resting, that's 49x16x60x10=470,400 rounds. Plenty of time. :smallbiggrin:

[FafnerMorell]

If that was the ending of the arc (and perhaps the next-to-come book), it was a great one. And fits in nicely with the "Empire Strikes Back" theme - reminds me of Luke and Leia, with Luke trying out his new hand.

And O-chul rocks.

[ColdSepp]

Just seven weeks left for the Belkstar...

I was wondering how much of a year was left.

[Quinton250]

I figured there wouldn't be anything special or evil about 666.

It is also interesting to note that because Roy knows when Belkar will die, he assumes he knows when their mission will be over with. I guess he feels it will take the whole team if they are going to stand a chance.

[Shadow_Elf]

Aww, I thought comic 666 would show the Devils/Demons/Daemons reactions to all of this.

But this was a great comic nonetheless. Bet you ten gold pieces has definitely been missed. Now, the party dynamic can return to quasi-normal (V's still a ticking time bomb, and Belkar's "Employee of the Month", but otherwise its back to business as usual).

[abishur]

O-Chul has the best response EVER :smallbiggrin:

[petersohn]

Even if it's not the end of the story arc, it's very close to it.

O-Chul is awesome as always. And the whole strip, too.

[FoE]

Stick it, #666 speculators!

That was a nice moment.

[yilduz]

ROFLWAFFLES!

That was an awesome comic.

[zql]

love the punch line

i can't wait for V's reflexions about the whole Soul Splice thing!

[RMS Oceanic]

I particularly like Giant's use of the comic title to assure us Haley is not going to screw over the Order for the sake of a bet. Nice way to nip that epileptic tree in the bud.

[Mesiolan]

Nice update!

OK, who is goint to bet on a fight O-Chul vs. Belkar? 'Cause simply announcing a threat to the halfling could spell a blood feud.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

hmm, so we now know that a year will have passed in 7 in-comic weeks from hmm.... how many comics does that mean (comic calculators do your maths!)

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything. I don't think the entire order will take out Xykon in the next seven weeks, but they might beat Xykon and the Hobgoblin Horde to next gate where Belkar dies his perma-death.

There are two gates left, and I don't see them getting through both of them in a seven week timeframe. Girard's gate will be the next major arc or two, then the assault on Kraagor's gate will be the final arc of the story, plus any possible followup arcs.

[Brogen]

Awesome comic, I wasn't expecting Roy to remember everything, so I loved the way you figured out how he could remember the important things, without remembering how awesome heaven was. And the part with Belkar and O-Chul, was definately awesome.

[DSCrankshaw]

It was fun seeing O'Chul's response. I wasn't expecting him to kill Belkar, but I wasn't expecting him to thank him either.

[Fencing Fool]

Heh, O-chul and Belkar panel. I'd like to see Belkar dump someone of a cliff just to see O-chul's reaction

[Mr. Mud]

Seven Weeks 'till the end of the ark, or seven weeks till no more OOTS... :smalleek:?

Anyways, sentimental comic. Not as hilarious as usual, but good all the same.

[roy_greenhilt]

I figured it out! The sun was red in comic 666 just like hell!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/718smiley.svg/300px-718smiley.svg.png

[garylian]

Not the big thing everyone was thinking for #666, but I liked it.

[Yendor]

Sweet.

And I correctly predicted absolutely nothing would happen over the strip number.

[Military Man]

Great Comic, O-Chul pwns as is standard, and we learn what Roy remembers of the afterlife. Nice way to end a story arc and extremely touching.

- MM

[Magicus]

Good comic... I think the relationship between Belkar and O-Chul is going to be interesting. The little guy could really respond positively to someone just as brutal as himself, but lawful.

[hamishspence]

yup- it would not entirely surprise me if this is the last strip of the book, and the next book is about to begin.

[Asf]

Great comic!

[mistformsquirrl]

<^_^> I has a case of the grinz now.

[Optimystik]

I particularly like Giant's use of the comic title to assure us Haley is not going to screw over the Order for the sake of a bet. Nice way to nip that epileptic tree in the bud.

You don't know epileptic botanists very well, do you? :smallwink:

Of course she won't sabotage the mission for ten gold pieces! That's chump change! But what about 15? 20? The sky's the limit!

[olthar]

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything. I don't think the entire order will take out Xykon in the next seven weeks, but they might beat Xykon and the Hobgoblin Horde to next gate where Belkar dies his perma-death.

I was just referring to how long belkar has to survive not for the comic to end.

As for that, 329 was the first time the oracle said belkar had a year, which means there are about 7.5 comics per "week." Which means we might be able to expect belkar to die within the next 50 or so comics (give or take a few).

[Kaytara]

For some reason that felt very weird. :) In a good way. Just... completely serene and pleasant talk. But maybe it's it's because I'm not used to seeing Haley and Roy talk this way.
I'd say we have one more page to go in the book. :)

Also, some people totally called O-Chul thanking Belkar. Cookies for them. :D

[NightAngel]

I registered because I had a question gnawing at me. The oracle said Belkar would draw his last "breath" I think. Couldn't that mean he might be turned into some kind of undead? :smallwink:

[Rutskarn]

You don't know epileptic botanists very well, do you? :smallwink:

Of course she won't sabotage the mission for ten gold pieces! That's chump change! But what about 15? 20? The sky's the limit!

I'm calling it right now. Haley sabotages the mission for a Klondike Bar.

[Pandabear]

Wasn't there a cantrip that could do all the cleaning for him?

[Klivian]

Question: We know that there are 2 different calendars in the OOTS world, the Northern calendar and the Southern calendar. Given that the Oracle seems to be in the southern region, wouldn't it make sense for him to be using the Southern calendar?

If he is, then Belkar would still have 6-8 months to do his thing, as opposed to the 7 weeks that Roy is assuming

[Raven3005]

this was a good one, i really liked the sunset it seemed to be so perfect concidering the Oots are reunited. Belkar's soon to be death is expected but i think he'll either die after the final battle with xykon of during, Belkar's an important character and i don't think it'd be a good finale without him.

[Cleverdan22]

This comic felt nice to me. Good to see Roy interacting with Haley again, and keeping up their tradition of betting ten gold on something.

[gatitcz]

So is the bony guy in the black robe Death, or does Roy have a specific plan to sacrifice Belkar in order to beat Xykon?

Or is this an earlier reference that I just don't remember? Why seven weeks?

[Zanaril]

So... is V still paralized? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[Elderac]

Wow! Great comic. It answered so many questions and raised a few (7 weeks?).

I loved the next to last panel of the two looking off into the sunset. Almost enough to make Elan jealous.

[Kidmm]

I liked the little touches. Roy has climbed to this cliffside perch, probably intending to have a think while engaged in the simple, practical exercise of cleaning his armor.

His long-neglected armor.

That his rotting corpse wore for months.

Ick.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

I'm glad to see that the Giant didn't do anything for all that 666 nonsense. The comic was awesome, Rich. As always, of course. :smallsmile:

I can't wait until the next one.:smallbiggrin:

Seven weeks? :smalleek: Belkar's gonna bite it soon. Crap.

I love the much more uplifted tone of this comic. Compared to other recent ones, it feels good to see the Order back on track once again.:smallsmile:

[King of Nowhere]

That felt good. Really good.

And O-Chul rocks as always

[Pepz]

Wow, that's the first time ever that the comic is updated while I'm on-line!

Awesome strip, giant.

Looks like the next strip will be the end of the arc.

I like how there's no 666 references :smallbiggrin:

[Lupy]

That was a good one. I'm glad my predictions were wrong.

[Spiryt]

I will be certainly ninjed x 20 with this, but the last panel was great.

[Athaniar]

Good to see the Giant not caring about the strip number, in a way. Great strip, though.

[Hamilkar]

Brilliant discussion at the end. Roy is starting to think like a rouge. :smallwink:

[FoE]

Brilliant discussion at the end. Roy is starting to think like a rouge. :smallwink:

Roy is starting to think like make-up? :smalltongue:

[RPGAgmJAY]

Didn't really enjoy it. Looks like a summary panel for the end of a book.

As for Belkar's 7 weeks of life remaining... it'll probably take another 666 comics before we hit that deadline. =) Which is good, for I do enjoy my little shoeless god of war.

For any of you who are wondering... the end of the series will be with Xykon's victory over the PC group. Just wait and see.

-Good Gaming!
J.

[Blaznak]

Hmmm. I thought there'd be something a bit more edgy for 666. But I have no complaints. Good quiet moments are always appreciated!

[genXesis]

Good strip. But one question...why in the world are they focused on :belkar: when :vaarsuvius: just went off the deep end? They have seemed to care what he just did. Surely O Chul has talked about what he's seen. How can they appear to be so blind to V? And it's not just this strip, but the previous ones as well.

[hamishspence]

Elan has witnessed the first stage of V's going of the deep end, but Roy, as far as we know, hasn't.

All he knows, is V had two souls bound to him, and has come back without them.

Its not clear how much O-chul knows about the splice and V.

And Roy may not get to find out for a while, thanks to Eugene's decision not to tell him.

[Morty]

If it's about seven weeks before the year ends - as Belkar is prophecied to die before the end of the in-comic year - then winter will catch up with our heroes pretty soon. It won't pose much of a problem in the Southern lands, but if they travel north to Kraagor's gate...

[Zevox]

Looks like an end-of-book page to me. Cool - so the next big arc, probably Girard's Gate, starts next comic. Can't wait.

Also good to know the in-world time limit on Belkar's life. 7 weeks left in the year. Almost 2 months. Still a lot of time. But he could die at any time during that seven weeks, so we can't presume he has all or even most of that left.

Also nice to see that Haley is smart enough to figure out Belkar's sudden change of heart is a ploy. I'd be worried if she were that easily duped.

Also, O-Chul is weird...

Zevox

[factotum]

As for that, 329 was the first time the oracle said belkar had a year, which means there are about 7.5 comics per "week." Which means we might be able to expect belkar to die within the next 50 or so comics (give or take a few).

You can't make judgements like that because the amount of time a comic takes varies. The Battle of Azure City took less than a day, yet covered comics 421 to 484--so by that standard, a comic is less than 25 minutes. Conversely, between comics 485 and 500 was a gap of more than three months, which would make each comic last more than 5 days. So, just from those two ranges we get between 10 and 3136 strips to cover 7 weeks...not something we can get anything meaningful from!

[FeAnPi]

A very good strip. It gave me the idea of a restoration of the Order, but of great changes, too.

[abishur]

Question: We know that there are 2 different calendars in the OOTS world, the Northern calendar and the Southern calendar. Given that the Oracle seems to be in the southern region, wouldn't it make sense for him to be using the Southern calendar?

If he is, then Belkar would still have 6-8 months to do his thing, as opposed to the 7 weeks that Roy is assuming

Well, yes it's two calenders, but a year is a year in the OoTS universe. (as a side note I just realized we've all be assuming that 1 year in OoTS universe = 365 days, but who's to say that it's not different?). The Oracle said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)



Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year


So Roy (and a lot of us?) all assume 1 year from the moment the oracle made that prediction (which the flow of time seems to supporting). Besides, Rich seems to be being very specific about this Belkar stuff. If Roy says they've only got seven weeks left, you can take that to the bank!


I was just referring to how long belkar has to survive not for the comic to end.

As for that, 329 was the first time the oracle said belkar had a year, which means there are about 7.5 comics per "week." Which means we might be able to expect belkar to die within the next 50 or so comics (give or take a few).

Technically, the oracle said Belkar should savor his next birthday cake. meaning that he had less than 2 years left. It wasn't until after the battle for Azure that the oracle said less than a year.

Also I wouldn't put too much stock into the 50 comic prediction. We've all seen how Rich can spend a lot of time focusing on a single story or quickly throw in something as a fun side-quest. Plus your calculation includes both the war (the single longest series of comic set in the same time frame, i.e. the same day or two), as well as the time the party was apart which may have had some overlap (though now that I say that I suspect I'm wrong, I'll have to look back through the recent strips :smallwink:)

As a side note, I know we're all starting to take a "7 weeks and he's dead!" stance, but it could happen at ANY point in the next 7 (comic) weeks.

[hamishspence]

Or simply a "evil deed done to him led to good consequences, so forgive the evil-doer" sort of guy.

He may be weird, but he's not vengeful.

[abishur]

Good strip. But one question...why in the world are they focused on :belkar: when :vaarsuvius: just went off the deep end? They have seemed to care what he just did. Surely O Chul has talked about what he's seen. How can they appear to be so blind to V? And it's not just this strip, but the previous ones as well.

Maybe because no one in the party but Belkar knows that V went off the deep end? Roy only knows that V was outsourcing some spells.

[Pronounceable]

Take that, 666ers.

Alas, the end is nigh for the sexy shoeless god of war...

[Liliedhe]

Foreshadowing ftw.

I love O'Chul. And will cheer for him. A lot. :smallbiggrin:

[Mystic Muse]

okay the real question now is who is more powerful? the sexy shoeless god of war or O-chul?:smallbiggrin:

and honestly. props to Rich for ignoring all those "number of the beast" threads. if I knew where he lived I'd send about a thousand gift baskets to thank him.

[Assassin89]

We know that Roy remembers part of what happened in Celestia, meaning that question is answered.

There are still some questions that need to be answered, but they will be resolved in time.

There is a possibility that O-chul will kill Belkar, but I find it highly unlikely.

[Optimystik]

I liked the little touches. Roy has climbed to this cliffside perch, probably intending to have a think while engaged in the simple, practical exercise of cleaning his armor.

His long-neglected armor.

That his rotting corpse wore for months.

Ick.

Dude, it's probably adamantine or something. I'd clean it too.

[indrax]

Too bad Roy had to forget about his brother and mother. Hope that'll be remember next time. "Prove your my mother." isn't exactly the best greeting, but saying it twice would hurt.

Judging by how repeat visitors reacted to heaven, once you go back you remember everything from the previous visits.

[SandyCaesar]

Very, very nice, Rich. That was a pretty nice moment throughout.

For me, the awesome moment that really made the strip was O-Chul, as always. Count on a REAL paladin to deliver!

(And also...oh, so that's what the whole "seven weeks" thing is about...)

[Martok]

A very good comic, indeed! It was both informational and (as usual) funny at the same time.

If this strip doesn't mark the ending of the current story arc, then we at least have to be very close to it. If one goes by how many pages the printed books have, then I'd estimate that the current arc will end no later than strip 680. If the current story arc *is* done now, however, then I'll admit it's a reasonably satisfactory ending; they don't all have to end with a big splash page IMO. :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

yes- he already appears to have "forgiven" or at least, chosen not to punish, Belkar for his act (abandonment).

"Funny, I always figured I'd be killed by a paladin."

said while Miko was charging him, could be foreshadowing of something that will happen much later, we will have to wait and see.

[Random832]

Looks like an end-of-book page to me. Cool - so the next big arc, probably Girard's Gate, starts next comic. Can't wait.

We still need to resolve V getting unparalyzed, and something with Elan and something with Durkon. And the other end-of-books were a lot clearer than this. Maybe two more updates.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

To all those people calculating how long Belkar has left:

I think you're count is being thrown off. Between 492 and 498

"103 days, 8 hours, 17 minutes and 9 seconds" passed.

[Ceric]

Aww. That was sweet.

Maybe... Belkar will throw someone else off a cliff within the next seven weeks and O-CHUL will be the one to kill him! :smallbiggrin:

(Ninja'd by hamishspence. Kinda.)

[Shadic]

Cute comic. I think Roy and Haley probably have the best-defined relationship, as far as character development goes. They're nearly complete opposite characters, but they both want the same thing in the long run (Xykon destroyed). They respect each other's differences, and really work well.

And no, I'm not saying that in a relationship sense.

[hamishspence]

Roy's comment about Belkar's seven weeks left- can be regarded as counting from the end of the year backwards, the "103 days etc" is counting from Roy's death forwards.

Somebody else probably has the info about when (roughly) the present time is, in the year.

[Elfin]

Awesome comic, as always.

[Duxus]

Spectacular as always, but i have a question! Where and how did Roy learn Belkar is going to die soon (7 weeks)? Did I miss that? How can i miss that?

[chiasaur11]

Wow. That was better than I expected, and I expected a pretty solid comic.

Nicely done. A good O-Chul moment, solid Roy and Haley interaction, and a good punchline. Nice.

[mhensley]

Maybe... Belkar will throw someone else off a cliff within the next seven weeks and O-CHUL will be the one to kill him! :smallbiggrin:


I think that since O-Chul has served his purpose, is no longer needed, and that everyone loves him - now would be a good time for Belkar to push him off a cliff when nobody is looking. :smallamused:

[hamishspence]

Oracle prophesy "Will draw last breath- ever, before end of year- thats "in comic" year."

Which tells us roughly when in the year it is- seven weeks before year end.

[Huanir]

It seems that nobody else is mentioning it, so it looks like I just forgot, but when did Haley learn that Belkar had activated the Mark of Justice? Didn't she forget it after leaving the Oracle's area?

[hamishspence]

At the thieves guild, when the cleric of Loki explains its not a sickness, its a curse- the Mark.

[Huanir]

Ah, right. Thanks. :biggrin:

[mikeejimbo]

Nice! That comic tied up a few loose ends neatly and succinctly. Specifically, we were wondering how much Roy would remember.

Good way to end my lunch hour, actually. Back to work.

[Shatteredtower]

So this is why things were dragged out?

Good choice.

Interesting to see it confirmed that none of Belkar's teammates would contemplate ever raising him from the dead. Not surprising, though there is something a bit disturbing about it. Sure, Belkar only helped retrieve Roy's corpse because it was in his own interest's to do so, but isn't that sort of the reason Roy's kept Belkar around all this time as well? The "parole officer" excuse just seems like a convenient justification at times.

It makes me wonder about one possibility, though a highly unlikely one.

Can anyone imagine circumstances in which the Order might reconsider that decision, only to discover that Belkar can't be raised?

[SinsI]

Interesting to see it confirmed that none of Belkar's teammates would contemplate ever raising him from the dead.
Don't speak for all of them. The only one that counts (our beardy friend) hasn't said anything yet, and Belkar was pretty sure he would do it.

P.S. is it just me, or does Roy and Haley sound pretty evil in this strip?

[dsavereide]

I'm glad he remembers the move his grandfather taught him, even he doesn't remember the lessons themselves. I hope he makes his grandfather proud. His own father is useless. His empty promise to give the report to his son may mean he has no intention of keeping his promise to Roy either.

O'chul's threat to Belkar is not just throwing someone off a cliff, but any act of cowardice that abandons someone to "certain" death. Personally, I would bet on O'chul to win the fight between them. Belkar is clever, but O'Chul has a mighty force of will on his side.

[Shadic]

P.S. is it just me, or does Roy and Haley sound pretty evil in this strip?
Far from it. They're sticking with him while they're still a team. However, when things go awry and Belkar's fate finally catches up to him, they're not going to try and bring a Chaotic Evil character back from the dead. They discussed that in panel 8 - He's just as evil as he always has been, he's just playing along for the greater good at the time being.

[Terbovus]

Not posted in ages, but wanted to say this was a lovely one. Nice combination of cheery team and pleasant wrap up, with some good jokes - 'bet you ten gold' - and a nice O'chul moment.

Its all good :smallsmile:

[Cuthbertson]

So... is V still paralized? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if V has been unfrozen and is off somewhere in deep contemplation about hir recent actions and outcomes...

Anyone else find it poetic that this is comic #666 and yet V is curiously missing... does that mean there is hope that the evils of past actions won't stick to hir soul?

[Finwe]

Spectacular as always, but i have a question! Where and how did Roy learn Belkar is going to die soon (7 weeks)? Did I miss that? How can i miss that?

The oracle predicted it for him when he was visiting as a spirit.

[Optimystik]

Far from it. They're sticking with him while they're still a team. However, when things go awry and Belkar's fate finally catches up to him, they're not going to try and bring a Chaotic Evil character back from the dead. They discussed that in panel 8 - He's just as evil as he always has been, he's just playing along for the greater good at the time being.

Adding to this: Roy still thinks the Deva was trying to warn him about Belkar. So from his perspective, Belkar has upgraded from lodestone to hot coal - he'll hold on to it only as long as he has to, and can't wait to drop it. He also can't dismiss Belkar early, since his entire defense during his review was that keeping the halfling close did more Good than cutting him loose.

[SinsI]

Far from it. They're sticking with him while they're still a team. However, when things go awry and Belkar's fate finally catches up to him, they're not going to try and bring a Chaotic Evil character back from the dead. They discussed that in panel 8 - He's just as evil as he always has been, he's just playing along for the greater good at the time being.
That "Chaotic Evil" character saved Haley's ass not so long ago, and was pretty willing to help bring Roy back to life - he's not just some label, he's A Sexy Shoeless God of War! To not do the same for him is an epitomy of ungratefullness, and should forever deny Roy his Lawful Good afterlife.

[Almaseti]

I really enjoyed the exchange between Belkar and O-Chul.

[hamishspence]

That "Chaotic Evil" character saved Haley's ass not so long ago, and was pretty willing to help bring Roy back to life - he's not just some label, he's A Sexy Shoeless God of War! To not do the same for him is an epitomy of ungratefullness, and should forever deny Roy his Lawful Good afterlife.

I said similar about Miko's attempting killing of him, the first time (right after the trial), and was told that "its evil and unlawful to try and stop the justified execution of someone evil."

[abishur]

Dude, it's probably adamantine or something. I'd clean it too.

it might be bilver :smallbiggrin:

[HOLEkevin]

Seven weeks in who's time?

[Milskidasith]

No 666 references, just as I expected.

Good comic.

[Finwe]

That "Chaotic Evil" character saved Haley's ass not so long ago, and was pretty willing to help bring Roy back to life - he's not just some label, he's A Sexy Shoeless God of War! To not do the same for him is an epitomy of ungratefullness, and should forever deny Roy his Lawful Good afterlife.

It's entirely possible that Belkar will be killed in some way that prevents resurrection. Or he might not even die, just be turned to stone, or something else entirely. Bottom line is, the order might not even be capable of doing anything about it.

[Rakim Avishot]

hmm, so we now know that a year will have passed in 7 in-comic weeks from hmm.... how many comics does that mean till belkar's death(comic calculators do your maths!)

edit: did it myself oracle first said it in #329, so 666-329 = 337 / 45 = 7.488 so we might expect belkar to die within the next 52 comics or so

Uhhhhhhhhhhh....no......
Comics don't have the same passage of time from comic to comic. During Azure city war, there were 60-something comics in one day, yet 3 months passed when Roy was in heaven for 13 strips. Time passes differently all the time, so Belkar could be around for a lot more strips.

[Optimystik]

That "Chaotic Evil" character saved Haley's ass not so long ago, and was pretty willing to help bring Roy back to life - he's not just some label, he's A Sexy Shoeless God of War! To not do the same for him is an epitomy of ungratefullness, and should forever deny Roy his Lawful Good afterlife.

Belkar's handful of quasi-Good actions lately do not mystically erase his lifetime of heinous deeds. His actions in Origin alone should be enough to condemn him, never mind what he's done since.


it might be bilver :smallbiggrin:

But that would give him DR/eleventy billion! :smalleek:

[Bunnywolf]

I think O-Chul just broke my cool-o-meter. It only goes to 11 :smallbiggrin:

And I got a perfect sunset panoramic view, too.

[Marzie]

Aww, that was really sweet. Good to have the team back. :smallredface:

Not to mention O-Chul's line made me crack up. Gotta love the paladins.

[abishur]

Spectacular as always, but i have a question! Where and how did Roy learn Belkar is going to die soon (7 weeks)? Did I miss that? How can i miss that?

Roy first heard it the first time we see the OoTS at the Oracle that Belkar will die at some point after his next birthday, and then more specifically, while Roy is a ghost we learn that Belkar will die in less than a (in comic time) year. The revelation of there being 7 weeks until a year is up is more a housekeeping thing on Rich's part I think. There's been a TON of speculation on how long it's been, and here Rich lets us know quiet clearly. Of course, we are STILL all assuming that 1 year = 365(and 1/4) days in the OoTS universe. :smallwink:




Interesting to see it confirmed that none of Belkar's teammates would contemplate ever raising him from the dead.

It makes me wonder about one possibility, though a highly unlikely one.

Can anyone imagine circumstances in which the Order might reconsider that decision, only to discover that Belkar can't be raised?

To be fair it has been shown that many of the OoTS members would actively defend Belkar. This might be more of an example of a self-fulling prophecy. Roy is talking as if doesn't even consider there being a possibility of rezzing Belkar (note that Haley never talks about knowing what Roy means with 7 weeks, Roy is the only one who knows about the year time limit). But there is one possibility I can think of where they'd try to rez him and couldn't


If Belkar was attacked by the snarl or had his soul stolen by Xy and company



Seven weeks in who's time?

Forever in always in comic time :smallwink: The oracle only made that little aside because he was aware of the audience. Roy, however, is not and will always speak in comic time.

[HuntedWalrus]

I think "seven weeks" is just Rich's way of clueing the audience in that it'll e part of the next story arc, as opposed to two or three arcs out. By keeping it in the fore instead of letting the topic fade from view, he starts the build-up to the dramatic resolution. Even if Belkar dies according to a different calendar, the group's anticipation that he will die soon may provide an entirely different stry arc, possibly even luring Belkar back to the (openly) dark side.

On another note, I don't get why so many were SHOCKED that V wasn't in this strip. Rich can't always put everyone in every strip. We've had so much going so quickly for so long, a breather has to be somewhere, and this strip is it. It officially passes the metaphorical +5 Baton of Leadership back into Roy's newly-resurrected hands; it ties up quite a few details' worth of loose ends... what more do you want?

As for this being the last page of the book, I doubt it. It feels to me very similar to the way he ended "No Cure for the Paladin Blues," with some things wrapping up, but other things just getting started.
My bet is, before the end of this "book," we will see:
1. Xykon, Redcloak, and MitD's travel plans, BUT NOT more on the nature of MitD.
2. V's opinions of his/her actions in retrospect, and Durkon's BUT NOT serious discussion of the ramifications of his/her fall rom grace.
3. What the Azurites plan to do next as a people, as well as Hinjo, Lien, and O-Chul as individuals.
4. Not much more on the Belkar front. That seems to be settled into a holding pattern for now. If there's anything more with that, it'll be next book.
5. Possibly, Rich may do what he did in "Palain Blues" and add a couple more pages as a coda. I'm hoping he'll do one so we see what Nale and Sabine have been up to all this time.

I'd say more, but my typing fingers are tired.

[Bianco]

That was unbelievably cute. Before finding OotS, I never would have believed that stick figures could be so cute.

I'm happy that there were no 666 references. Why should there even have been, since the number has no specific meaning in D&D or in the Stick universe?

Also, some nice answers woven into the storytelling. I don't think we can estimate how many strips seven weeks is going to take, considering that Rich might just as well decide that from now on every strip will cover a period of, say, five seconds.

Still looking forward to V's returning to life without splices.

[Gamerlord]

Good comic giant, And I bet everyone here ten gold that is is the last page for the next book.

[abishur]

On another note, I don't get why so many were SHOCKED that V wasn't in this strip. Rich can't always put everyone in every strip. We've had so much going so quickly for so long, a breather has to be somewhere, and this strip is it. It officially passes the metaphorical +5 Baton of Leadership back into Roy's newly-resurrected hands; it ties up quite a few details' worth of loose ends... what more do you want?


Besides, V's offense was against Durkon and Elan, we'll probably see them talking in the next strip. Remember NO ONE in the OoTS (other than Belkar) knows that V went Dark side for a bit (something she seems to have repented of even if her action will have far reaching consequences)


which totally made me think of a prediction! Belkar will die while saving an member of the party once V gets taken over by one of the fiends. His death will be in such a manner that there is no hope for resurrection (missing soul/no body to rez)

[Random832]

Good comic giant, And I bet everyone here ten gold that is is the last page for the next book.

I'll take that bet.

[Meg]

Awww, so nice. I like that it was just a simple talk, rather than a lot of frenzied activity.

[hamishspence]

How does each book end?
prequels:

SoD- Xykon and company heading into Dorukan's Dungeon
OoPCs- Party walking out along the road


DcF- Miko foreshadowing, everyone strikes pose.
NCftPB- "Next stop- Azure City!"
W&XPs- Roy and Eugene looking down on a ruined Azure City
Unknown- Roy and Haley gazing out over the fleet?

Its not that far off.

[Gamerlord]

I'll take that bet.

You arn't going to break into richs house and force him to make the comic after this the last page for the next book for ten gold pieces are you? :smalltongue:

[Finwe]

But that would give him DR/eleventy billion! :smalleek:

That's what elemental damage is for!

[Linkavitch]

Good comic! Didn't seriously expect anything special for 666, but it was cool, nontheless.

[Freefall]

That was very sweet. Unexpectedly low-key, but satisfying.

[hamishspence]

Besides, V's offense was against Durkon and Elan, we'll probably see them talking in the next strip. Remember NO ONE in the OoTS (other than Belkar) knows that V went Dark side for a bit (something she seems to have repented of even if her action will have far reaching consequences)



Roy knows something (soul splice) and might raise the topic with the others.

He doesn't know how V got it though.

[abishur]

How does each book end?
prequels:

SoD- Xykon and company heading into Dorukan's Dungeon
OoPCs- Party walking out along the road


DcF- Miko foreshadowing, everyone strikes pose.
NCftPB- "Next stop- Azure City!"
W&XPs- Roy and Eugene looking down on a ruined Azure City
Unknown- Roy and Haley gazing out over the fleet?

Its not that far off.

Actually, you (unknowingly?) point out an important trend. Each book ends with a nugget of foreshadowing. Belkar's death is something we've known about for... what years now? And we still need a little peak at some resolution between V, Durkon, and Elan before things can really continue.

[Mc. Lovin']

Are we gonna see V ack this ark or not? D;

[hamishspence]

I was thinking more the low-action style (possibly with the exception of Paladin Blues) Still, some have foreshadowing. Maybe Cloister casting counts for War & XPs:

"Ladies and Gentlemen- Azure City is officially off the grid"

[CrimsonAngel]

Yay, we can stop discusing the number 666 now!

[Optimystik]

Actually, you (unknowingly?) point out an important trend. Each book ends with a nugget of foreshadowing. Belkar's death is something we've known about for... what years now? And we still need a little peak at some resolution between V, Durkon, and Elan before things can really continue.

There has been foreshadowing; the mysterious errand of Roy's Archon. It would be nice to get a peek at the LG or the Fiends on the last page though.

[Ikialev]

At last, the confirmation that Roy actually wears pants.

[dps]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh....no......
Comics don't have the same passage of time from comic to comic. During Azure city war, there were 60-something comics in one day, yet 3 months passed when Roy was in heaven for 13 strips. Time passes differently all the time, so Belkar could be around for a lot more strips.

Yeah, and apparantly it was only 10 minutes or so from 650 to 665. If that ratio were to hold, that would give us 90 strips per hour, 2160 strips per day, 15,140 strips per week, and 105,980 strips for the next 7 weeks. Of course, that won't happen, because about a third of those would be of Roy standing guard duty uneventfully all night while everyone else rested. In fact, if nothing of note happened during the night, and everyone but Roy rested for 8 hours, we'd have 720 consecutive strips of Roy watching the rest of the Order rest--and that would be repeated 49 times to cover the next 7 weeks. :smallbiggrin:

Boy, would the people who got upset at the time taken for the Therkla and Greysky city subplots because they didn't seem to be advancing the main story get pissed. :smallbiggrin:

[mockingbyrd7]

An excellent feel-good, winding-down strip. Haley and Roy don't get a ton of time together, but when they do they have very good chemistry. And of course, O-Chul remains awesome. And good explanation of Roy's memory; it would be kinda strange if he had remembered everything, but a waste of time if he had remembered nothing.

[Tundar]

Thumbs up for not making it a 666-evil kinda strip.

The second last panel even gave me a warm feeling inside.

[Yoyoyo]

Does Belkar know he has seven weeks (or less) to live? If so, he's pretty casual about it. :smalleek:

[abishur]

Does Belkar know he has seven weeks (or less) to live? If so, he's pretty casual about it. :smalleek:

No, Roy is still the only one who knows Belkar has 7 (at the most) weeks left to live. The first time the OoTS was there, it was mentioned that Belkar should enjoy his next b-day, but only in normal conversation, not in trance mode.

[JustRain]

Oooh!
*smiling happily*

Now you did that in purpose for the #666, right? Just because we expected something totally different?

[J.Gellert]

The best thing about O-Chul's warning is that he's badass enough to actually pull it off, whacking a PC.

[Rotipher]

Seven weeks: that should be enough time to visit Girard's Gate, but probably not the last one, assuming V doesn't regain vir power of teleportation somehow. Now I'm starting to think that Belkar really is going to rise from the grave, after all ... quite possibly on the other side, as a sentient (hence still smart-mouthed) undead reanimated by Tsukiko.

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird seeing O-Chul fully dressed after all this time, BTW? :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

He got told he should "savour his next birthday cake"

However, he may be a little skeptical (he was, before killing the Oracle).

Plus, he at least doesn't remember the second encounter, where he kills the oracle, and gets his prophesy fulfilled. So his skepticism may continue, unless Roy tells him.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

[infiniteviking]

Awwwwwww, that was seriously cute. O'Chul continues to rock -- I hope he ends up traveling with the Order for a while. And bwahahaha, that's the Haley we all know and love!

Who wants to bet that by the time everyone remembers V, he's already heading for the hills?

[RdMarquis]

This answers quite a few questions that people on the forum had.

Roy only remembers the important parts of his death, for one. Maybe that's what the minibar in the limo from Heaven was for. The drinks are made to be so strong that people getting ressurected get smashed enough to forget most of their temporary deaths. :smallamused:

By the way, I think O-Chul and Belkar's little conversation characterizes the paladin quite well.

[JonestheSpy]

Aaah, after all the amzing cliffhangers, that was downright relaxing.

[Morgan Wick]

Suddenly, especially given the way this strip ended, I wouldn't be surprised if the next strip was the end-of-book montage. I still think we have a few more strips left in us, including the OOTS' planning going forward, but this REALLY smells like a scene change to me.

I think we need to rethink most of our theories regarding the Oracle. It's possible that Roy intends for Belkar's killing of the Oracle and impending death to be a little secret between him and Haley (it's interesting that Haley doesn't believe for a moment that Belkar's really become a team player), but if it's not and Roy spills everything he knows to the group, it opens up a whole mess of possibilities. (For one thing, it pretty much has to be a secret to justify ever hiding it behind the memory charm in the first place, unless the fact it was "on the record" the second time is important and indicates it's okay for Belkar to know now.)

First of all, Roy knows right off the bat that Belkar's at least pretending to be a team player (and figures the spectre of Death makes it irrelevant), so everyone who thought Roy would look at Belkar with mucho suspicion and perhaps even cause his death can step to the side - Roy probably still sees Belkar as useful for at least the next seven weeks, though he's likely to think twice if he's ever offered a Ring of Jumping by the halfling. Second of all, Roy now knows more than the Oracle ever wanted him to about the Sunken Valley, so on the off chance they come back, things would get so interesting it's less likely than ever anyone will come back (except maybe Team Evil).

[TheNovak]

That was nice and peaceful. I love Roy and Haley's kinda sibling-ish relationship here. And I also love O-Chul threatening to disembowel Belkar with his hands.

This strip would make a pretty good stopping point, but I think Rich would've posted a news item at the same time declaring the end of the book and whatnot. So I'm with the previous poster who suggested we'll get a few more pages; my guesses are one with V, Durkon, and Elan, and another focusing on the Linear Guild, and (because we've seen plenty of Xykon lately) a final one showing what's going on with the three fiends. Then, back to the good guys for one more page of Roy organizing the Order and explaining their plans, and finally, a splash page of some sort.

And then a bunch of us give Rich $30-$40 so we can read it all again, with bonus strips!

[Elderac]

I think that since O-Chul has served his purpose, is no longer needed, and that everyone loves him - now would be a good time for Belkar to push him off a cliff when nobody is looking. :smallamused:

Do you wish Belkar to die that soon? O-Chul could easily survive falling off a cliff. It's nothing compared to being blown free from a castle and landing about a mile away.

Nevertheless, I think we won't see much of the Azurites, O-Chul included, for a long time now. Then when we do, it will be one of those plot exposition sequences that Elan loves so well.

[Bianco]

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird seeing O-Chul fully dressed after all this time, BTW? :smallwink:
Took me a while to recognize him. :smallbiggrin:

[Ulti]

I was just referring to how long belkar has to survive not for the comic to end.

As for that, 329 was the first time the oracle said belkar had a year, which means there are about 7.5 comics per "week." Which means we might be able to expect belkar to die within the next 50 or so comics (give or take a few).

Not sure if anybody else said anything (don't want to read all 7 or so pages), but you're not counting the 3 month time skip and all that, which I'm pretty sure happened after Roys death (and thus the prediction), so i think a week can be alot more than 7 comics (look how many comics were spent on V getting his power to the MITD teleporting them away, and that was just one day,)

[Ripped Shirt Kirk]

I registered because I had a question gnawing at me. The oracle said Belkar would draw his last "breath" I think. Couldn't that mean he might be turned into some kind of undead? :smallwink:

Oh god, don't start that again.

[fractal]

I think that since O-Chul has served his purpose, is no longer needed, and that everyone loves him - now would be a good time for Belkar to push him off a cliff when nobody is looking. :smallamused:
Of all the people to push off of a cliff, O-Chul would be a poor choice, due to his high odds of survival (guaranteed? 20d6 maxes out at 120 points of damage, although I guess he could roll a 1 on his save vs. massive damage). On the other hand, O-Chul only told Belkar not to push other people off cliffs, so maybe he'd have to put up with it.

Belkar should ask O-Chul to teach him the "gutting people with your hands" thing. It could facilitate feeding them their internal organs.

I realize that OotS frequently ignores which direction things are facing, but given the other care that went into panel 11, Rich might want to fix the fact that Haley's bow is pointing the wrong way.

[olthar]

in response to the many comments about how time moves differently from comic to comic:

That's why it is an average (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average).

[Random832]

So I'm with the previous poster who suggested we'll get a few more pages; my guesses are one with V, Durkon, and Elan, and another focusing on the Linear Guild, and (because we've seen plenty of Xykon lately) a final one showing what's going on with the three fiends. Then, back to the good guys for one more page of Roy organizing the Order and explaining their plans, and finally, a splash page of some sort.

II'll bet 10gp against that exact ordering (Not that I think it's especially unlikely - just playing the odds)

If I had to guess on ordering, I'd say that the Linear Guild will be last, if at all.

[factotum]

I don't know why there are people saying we have to see V get "unparalysed". The events of this strip are clearly happening some time after 665--Roy has had time to get dressed and start polishing his armour for a start. V was under the influence of a Mass Hold Person, which lasts 1 round per caster level; even if Xykon were level 30, which is way higher than anybody's estimate for him, the spell only lasts for three minutes...V is therefore "unparalysed" already, we just haven't seen him in that state.

To be honest, this page feels like a splash page at the end of the book to me. We don't need to hear O-Chul reporting to Hinjo, because we've already seen the events he was involved in; Team Evil is currently occupied searching the sewers for Xykon's phylactery; and the Order is resting overnight before preparing their visit to Girard's Gate in the morning. I don't see that there's anything else necessary for this book, although I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[HZ514]

Heh. Loved the "(He got better.)" touch. Trope savvy writing all the way.

Go O-Chul! It is strange seeing him fully clothed. I actually thought he had a popsicle in his hands until i realized it was just his sleeve. :smalltongue:

And I agree with everyone that said it was nice and peaceful. With the obligatory 10 gold bet that fits right in, of course.

[FlawedParadigm]

You know...all this talk of Belkar's birthday cake, and I suddenly notice that I don't think we've ever celebrated any member of the Order's birthday, even though the story's progressed over a decent chunk of time now. We know Roy's passed while he was in the afterlife - there was a comment that he's twenty-nine now. I expect V, Durkon, and Belkar might simply not care about birthdays, and Haley is probably old enough to not want to *admit* birthdays, but I can't see Elan wanting to miss celebrating his. Although maybe I shouldn't have said that, since if Rich sees it, he'll automatically make sure it won't be Elan's celebrated, if anyone's. Heh.

Reminds me of the time Roy died and several folk predicted Haley would shrug and Durkon would have a breakdown, and then the next strip did it the other way around - and with logical, in-character reasons, although it could just as well have gone the predicted way.

Hm...maybe that's Elan's happy ending; his birthday will coincide with the celebration of the Order's victory.

[B.I.T.T.]

First of all, good comic.

Second of all I would like to add my voice to the chorus of people who knew that there would be nothing particularly special (in an "ooooo...spoooooky") kind of way. The fact that I didn't actualy post any messages saying that there would be nothing particularly spooky happening should in no way be interpreted that I didn't know that for sure, and am thusly full of it.

The reason that I didn't mention that nothing particularly spooky would happen was because I didn't want to spoil the fact that nothing would happen for the people who expected something spooky to happen.

Yeah...that's the ticket.

Anyway good comic, love the punchline, I'm not lying or anything when I say I was never wrong.

[Holammer]

I find it amusing that Roy and Haley are in agreement that Belkar is putting up a façade with his fake change of heart. What would be a delightful tragedy would be if he did end up with an legitimate change of heart and died for his comrades.
Just need to wait another seven in-comic weeks and see how it plays out! :smallwink:

[The Guardian]

Someone asked a few pages back how Haley knew about the Mark of Justice being activated... well we know she knew that, but she thought it was just an oracle helper... she seems completely unsurprised about the fact that it was actually the Oracle!

[hamishspence]

Splash pages are usually a lot bigger. Though maybe it will be remodelled (in the same way Roy And The Dragon was)

Style does make me think of earlier splash pages though.

[Elemental_Elf]

7 Weeks before the end of the year... Can we assume its the equivalent of the second week of November for the OOTS world?

[R. Shackleford]

I wonder if this means Xykon's defeat won't coincide with the end of the comic?

Yes!

I hated Naraku.

[Elemental_Elf]

I hated Naraku.

Who didn't hate him or the years of rehashing the same plots over and over again while getting no where at all in the overall plot? :smalltongue:

[Koragi85]

Great Comic as usual Giant! Keep up the great work!

[The Pilgrim]

Now the question is if O-Chul's frame was a Chekov's Gun or just a pun towards all those people who claimed he was going to be mad at Belkar for having thrown him away.

[Igfig]

Maybe Belkar won't be able to be resurrected simply because he doesn't want to come back?

He's not really the sort to care about saving the world; all he wants is to kill as many things as possible. Considering his incredible exploits in that field, and his multiple kilonazis of evil, he's pretty likely to reap significant rewards in the Chaotic Evil afterlife. Some kind of demonic general, maybe. With a position like that, with the opportunity to kill beings many and varied from all parts of the cosmos, he'd have to be crazy to want to go back to killing hobgoblins.

[hamishspence]

its very very rare to get promoted that fast. virtually all souls, even those powerful in life, start as lemures.

Still, exceptions exist.

[Optimystik]

I wonder if this means Xykon's defeat won't coincide with the end of the comic?

Yes!

I hated Naraku.

Inuyasha: Episode Infinity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3Ji-9tiJo)

[Zerg Cookie]

Roy has pants?! :smalleek:

Somebody had to say it....

[Mc. Lovin']

No 666 references, just as I expected.

Good comic.

Pun intended?

[Ridureyu]

Belkar will die as soon as is appropriate for him, once he has fulfilled his role in the comic. No more, no less. Remember, occasionally in this comic we have had time skips (how many weeks since the fall of Azure City?), but then we also just spend umpteen-billion comics on a gap of time that was about ten minutes or so. I thus predict that there's no way to tell how long Belkar's seven weeks are going to be.

[Eric O'Really]

woo, nice. i wonder what will happen to belkar. i doubt, that he will die without making a big impact on the story. :smallamused:

[abishur]

in response to the many comments about how time moves differently from comic to comic:

That's why it is an average (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average).

No no, we all know what an average is. It's just that you're operating under the idea that an average works for the Stick universe here. Rich has admitted that sometimes (a lot of times) a story just takes off and he goes with it cause it to grow much longer. Making what was going to be a 7 strips story line 14 or more. The fact of the matter is none of know what Rich will choose to do as the next story line or even how much time will pass between story line segments. I don't mean to doubt your math, or even insinuate that you're being foolish for thinking it works out. It was good math and a good estimation, we're all just trying to point out that it doesn't work because of the Rich factor (Where the Rich factor = him changing the length of a story line because it's a fun story).

Or, to put it mathematically.

Your formula (which was is a little off since you use 329 as your starting date of a year but that said "enjoy his next birthday implying less than two years, it wasn't until 572 (less than a hundred strips ago) that it was less than a year, or more accurately, until the end of THE year)

Average time for strips = (Strip1-Strip0)/(52-7) = 7.48888888 Strips per comic week.

Were Strip1 equals your ending strip number and Strip0 equals your starting strip number.

But time actually looks more like this in the strip universe

Average time for strips = (Strip1-Strip0)(R)/((52-X)+(GAP))

Where R = the Rich factor, X = the time until the end of the year (Which again assumes that there are 52 weeks in a year on the Stick world), and GAP = the time that was skipped between any two story lines.

The overall issue here is that there is an assumption that you can put a solid figure on how quickly time progresses, but you can't. The time moves at the rate Rich moves the story and any attempt to guess the time until Zero hour for Belkar is ultimately futile.

[Samurai Jill]

I really liked this one, for some reason.

[David Argall]

As for this being the last page of the book, I doubt it. It feels to me very similar to the way he ended "No Cure for the Paladin Blues," with some things wrapping up, but other things just getting started.
My bet is, before the end of this "book," we will see:
1. Xykon, Redcloak, and MitD's travel plans, BUT NOT more on the nature of MitD.
We may see a frame of them finding nothing, with Xykon killing somebody he didn't think was looking hard enough [or just because] and ordering them to keep looking, but that will be about it. The lost phylactery is there to nail Team Evil to Azure City for a long time. We won't see anything much about them for maybe 100 strips.


2. V's opinions of his/her actions in retrospect, and Durkon's BUT NOT serious discussion of the ramifications of his/her fall rom grace.
We will likely see a whole strip, or nothing. I would bet on a full page. We have had 40 pages on V and some sort of summation is in order.


3. What the Azurites plan to do next as a people, as well as Hinjo, Lien, and O-Chul as individuals.
This might get delayed until next book. We are about to say goodbye to most or all of them in either case.


5. Possibly, Rich may do what he did in "Palain Blues" and add a couple more pages as a coda.
DCF, NCPB, and W&XP all had a page of foreshadowing future events. We can predict a strip or two this time too.



Re: OOTS #666 - The Discussion Thread
7 Weeks before the end of the year... Can we assume its the equivalent of the second week of November for the OOTS world?
Pretty much. There is some wiggle room since we know of at least two calendars and can't be sure which one is being used. But the Oracle has been saying Belkar is a short timer for 11 months. So the odds of Belkar being around for the grand fanalie are looking long.



she seems completely unsurprised about the fact that it was actually the Oracle!
She really should be, but we only have so much space. You want to wasting space on details that don't really change anything?



Now I'm starting to think that Belkar really is going to rise from the grave, after all ... quite possibly on the other side, as a sentient (hence still smart-mouthed) undead reanimated by Tsukiko.
There are a host of predictions that Belkar is leaving the party, presumably dead. Since he is also not long for this world, undead can be ruled out.



yup- it would not entirely surprise me if this is the last strip of the book, and the next book is about to begin.
We are close to it, but almost certainly not there yet. I would predict at least a page of upcoming attractions, and a final splash page is a good bet too. But I don't see us getting past 670.



Question: We know that there are 2 different calendars in the OOTS world, the Northern calendar and the Southern calendar. Given that the Oracle seems to be in the southern region, wouldn't it make sense for him to be using the Southern calendar?
If he is, then Belkar would still have 6-8 months to do his thing, as opposed to the 7 weeks that Roy is assuming
Actually it is the reverse. It is by the Southern calendar that only a few weeks are left in the year. The Northern New Year would have happened a month or two ago, and before the Oracle was speaking. So Belkar could have up to about 10 months. However, it seems very likely they are all using the Southern Calendar, and Belkar is going to be toast soon.



Now you did that in purpose for the #666, right? Just because we expected something totally different?
Not impossible tho unlikely. However, allow me to predict that 700 will Not be anything fantastic.

[Selene]

At last, the confirmation that Roy actually wears pants.

This one didn't work for you?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html


Also, I totally called O'Chul's reaction! Go, me! :smalltongue:

[Bibliomancer]

Where were they keeping his clothes, all this time?

Apart from that, I'm still trying to find the imp hidden somewhere in the comic to commemorate #666.

[abishur]

This one didn't work for you?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html


Also, I totally called O'Chul's reaction! Go, me! :smalltongue:

lol, until you posted the link, I never made the connection that his date outfit was just his normal duds without the armor! (Yet Celia had to go and buy a whole new dress, clearly guys have it infinitely easier than girls :smallbiggrin:)

[Adeen]

He got told he should "savour his next birthday cake"

However, he may be a little skeptical (he was, before killing the Oracle).

Plus, he at least doesn't remember the second encounter, where he kills the oracle, and gets his prophesy fulfilled. So his skepticism may continue, unless Roy tells him.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

Personally, I think people should savor every birthday cake, whether or not it's their last.

[Ridureyu]

I always savor my birthday cake. But then, it helps that I've forgotten my last two birthdays, and thus was genuinely surprised by it.

[DBear]

I'm surprised Celia isn't in this strip:smallamused:

[The Nightwalker]

I'm just as surprised as Belkar is when ochul thanked him!:smalleek:

[Inkling]

Come on, Haley, draaaaaaaaaaaaaaag it out...

[Jagos]

Before reading the rest of the thread:

First, I'm glad Roy's back. Not only for being the meatshield but he is still one of the best characters. His sarcasm is just awesome.

Second, I'm glad to see Haley being a better second overall. Even if Belkar IS acting nicely, at least they recognize that he has a few good (if faked) moments.

Third, Roy's last line is too funny given how he's been out of the game for so long.

[Pyron]

I really like this comic. I find it the lack of any 666-reference refreshing.

Although I'm still wondering why Xykon took Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe? :smallconfused: Just kidding. :smallbiggrin:

[R. Shackleford]

Although I'm still wondering why Xykon took Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe? :smallconfused: Just kidding. :smallbiggrin:

*facepalm*

You had me there for a second.

[GreatWyrmGold]

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallbiggrin:
Every time that :roy: and :haley: have made an on-screen, 10-gp bet, which :haley: has accepted, :roy: has won.
Try a battle tactic like follows:
:roy: I need to talk with you.
(whispering)
:roy: I bet that (insert name of non-xykon bad guy) will fail his/her saving throw against (insert name of save-or-die spell).
:haley:You're on.
:vaarsuvius:(insert name of save-or-die spell)!
:bad guy:(Dies.)
:roy:You owe me 10 gold.
:haley:...That's why you chose this plan.

[Sijo]

I liked several things about this strip:

-The fact Roy *does* remember what he saw as a spirit (though sadly, not all that he saw in heaven. I hoped he'd remember his little brother. But I guess it makes sense.)

-Haley and Roy both admitting that Belkar is a problem that has to be dealt with (and not falling for his "I'm nice now!" trick.) Though I'm now convinced he isn't going to be killed off like they hope- it's too obvious. (Undead Belkar is looking more and more likely.)

-O'Chul basically saying to Belkar, in his ultra-polite samurai way, "I'll let you live- this time." :smallbiggrin:

-The fact the title of the strip assures us Haley won't betray the mission to win a bet. Not that I expected her to by now. She's definitely not Neutral anymore.

I can't wait to see The Order actually start talking *about* all that has happened, and to see the plans they will make.

[DnDgeek13]

the question is, seven weeks comic time or or real time?

[multilis]

So only a few weeks for Belkar to multi class into a Paladin to spite everyone. O'Chul has his work cut out for him!

[abishur]

the question is, seven weeks comic time or or real time?

No, there's really no doubt about that. It's in comic time. The only one to talk about "in comic years" was the Oracle and that was only because he knew about the audience. Since Roy is not aware of us, nor any of the other Stick members, all his time will be comic time.

[the_tick_rules]

Roy and Haley are becoming quite good friends. Watch out elan.

[Tubal-Cain]

O'Chul continues to rock -- I hope he ends up traveling with the Order for a while.

Accompanying them the whole way would break his oath, and is therefore a when-the-lower-planes-freeze-over scenario.

[Tobimaro]

I particularly like Giant's use of the comic title to assure us Haley is not going to screw over the Order for the sake of a bet. Nice way to nip that epileptic tree in the bud.

There is a way for her to be able to win the bet without sabotaging the Order. She can help defeat Xykon and Team Evil in LESS than seven weeks. Wonder who would win that bet? :smallwink:

Anyways, nice to see O-Chul put Belkar in his place. And it is good that Roy actually remembers what happened to Haley & co. when they visited the Oracle the second time. All together a great comic, Giant! :smallsmile:

[Jagos]

The fact the title of the strip assures us Haley won't betray the mission to win a bet. Not that I expected her to by now. She's definitely not Neutral anymore.

When was she ever CN? I was under the impression she's CG.

[maxon]

Question: We know that there are 2 different calendars in the OOTS world, the Northern calendar and the Southern calendar. Given that the Oracle seems to be in the southern region, wouldn't it make sense for him to be using the Southern calendar?

If he is, then Belkar would still have 6-8 months to do his thing, as opposed to the 7 weeks that Roy is assuming

Ummm? As a general rule, the planet you're on goes round it's sun in a year (you know, it's local year). Generally, it doesn't matter which calender you use, it takes the same amount of time going round. 1 year = 1 year IYSWIM anywhere on the planet without regard for how people describe the local time. Planets have no sense of consideration, obviously.

[abishur]

I particularly like Giant's use of the comic title to assure us Haley is not going to screw over the Order for the sake of a bet. Nice way to nip that epileptic tree in the bud.

you know, I thought the same thing with strip #634 "The Wrong Reasons" but people still refuse to believe that it was the fulfillment of the prophecy :smalltongue:

[Conuly]

Ummm? As a general rule, the planet you're on goes round it's sun in a year (you know, it's local year). Generally, it doesn't matter which calender you use, it takes the same amount of time going round. 1 year = 1 year IYSWIM anywhere on the planet without regard for how people describe the local time. Planets have no sense of consideration, obviously.

Yes, the length of the solar year is the same regardless of which calendar you use.

However, the phrases "before the end of the year" or "before the year is out" have no meaning until you know when the year is supposed to end. And *that* is something culture specific. It very much does matter how people describe local time when we're discussing things like the end or the beginning of the year. (And when we get to that point, it does NOT matter if their year happens to match up with the solar year in any way shape or form, so long as they all agree when it begins and ends.)

[abishur]

When was she ever CN? I was under the impression she's CG.

well not to open a large Haley-alignment debate issue but Haley claims she's chaotic good(ish) in #393. You can take it or leave it as you so please :smallbiggrin:

[Ramidel]

Aww. Just: aww.

If Roy and Haley weren't both happily mated already, I'd call that ship-tease. Instead, I'll just say they do love each other.

[Red XIV]

It was fun seeing O'Chul's response. I wasn't expecting him to kill Belkar, but I wasn't expecting him to thank him either.
I didn't surprise me at all.


Seven weeks? :smalleek: Belkar's gonna bite it soon. Crap.
Seven weeks in-comic could easily translate to 200 strips if the Giant wants it to.


Well, yes it's two calenders, but a year is a year in the OoTS universe. (as a side note I just realized we've all be assuming that 1 year in OoTS universe = 365 days, but who's to say that it's not different?). The Oracle said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)


Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year

So Roy (and a lot of us?) all assume 1 year from the moment the oracle made that prediction (which the flow of time seems to supporting).
By far the most logical conclusion would be that "before the end of the year" would be "before midnight of December 31 (or the equivalent in the Southern calendar, as the case may be) of this year". The Oracle said "the year", not "a year", after all. If he meant it within the next 365 days, it would've made more sense for him to say "within a year".


Dude, it's probably adamantine or something. I'd clean it too.
If it were adamantine...if it were, how did low-level hobgoblin mooks penetrate it with their arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0425.html)?

[Optimystik]

If it were adamantine...if it were, how did low-level hobgoblin mooks penetrate it with their arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0425.html)?

Easy! They slipped through the hinges in the buttflap.

[alegollama]

I wonder, though... why is most of the shirt-armor thingy blue, while the shoulders are steel-colored? Are they made of a different material?
(If this was runescape, then the shirt would be mithril and the shoulders would be steel :smalltongue:.) But seriously...

[Pronounceable]

10 gold says we'll be seeing Lord Tyrinar/Haley's dad/both in this book's closing moments.

[infiniteviking]

Accompanying them the whole way would break his oath, and is therefore a when-the-lower-planes-freeze-over scenario.

Ah; good point. That wouldn't stop him from going part of the way, though, right?

[Red XIV]

Is Soon's Oath still valid now that Soon's Gate no longer exists?

[Mr. Pin]

They seem to be taking it for granted that Belkar's gonna die, but I still think that the prophecy's a little bit too specific to just mean straight-up death... but what the hell, with the Giant you never know; it's like trying to outguess Chuck Norris- "it can't be done but badly".

and didn't the prophecy say "within the year"? That's seven weeks on the outside- he could get snuffed tomorrow for all we know.

[Optimystik]

The fleet will likely need O-Chul's assistance in making their new home habitable (and planning their retaliatory strike vs. Redcloaktopia.) In addition, Hinjo probably needs a new bodyguard now that both Roy and Elan will be leaving.

[Rotipher]

Roy and Haley are becoming quite good friends. Watch out elan.

I doubt it'll be an issue. Remember, Roy's used to having a little sister; he probably thinks of Haley that way more than anything.

[Nerocite]

Hooray for meatshields!

[Jimorian]

I doubt it'll be an issue. Remember, Roy's used to having a little sister; he probably thinks of Haley that way more than anything.

And if Elan ever starts to feel jealous, Roy and Haley could just reenact that scene from Firefly between Mal and Zoe. :smallamused:

[Olorin Maia]

Roy and Haley are becoming quite good friends. Watch out elan.

Nah, because Elan gets a happy ending, and therefore gets his girl.:smallbiggrin: No need for him to worry.

[Mr. Shiny Objec]

I wonder, though... why is most of the shirt-armor thingy blue, while the shoulders are steel-colored? Are they made of a different material?
(If this was runescape, then the shirt would be mithril and the shoulders would be steel :smalltongue:.) But seriously...

They're the things warriors have on their shoulders, like steel shoulder pads.

Also, this is such a nice strip.:smallredface:

[Sijo]

well not to open a large Haley-alignment debate issue but Haley claims she's chaotic good(ish) in #393. You can take it or leave it as you so please :smallbiggrin:

I don't want to start a debate either; just to state that, in my opinion, and judging from her behavior, she was originally Neutral (not even really chaotic) but grew better with time. (And just because a person states he or she belongs to an alignment doesn't mean they're telling the truth- especially if they happen to be thieves! :smallwink: )

[oxinabox]

I love it.
All of it. but especially the last panel

[abishur]

I don't want to start a debate either; just to state that, in my opinion, and judging from her behavior, she was originally Neutral (not even really chaotic) but grew better with time. (And just because a person states he or she belongs to an alignment doesn't mean they're telling the truth- especially if they happen to be thieves! :smallwink: )

glad to hear your opinion :smallwink:


And if Elan ever starts to feel jealous, Roy and Haley could just reenact that scene from Firefly between Mal and Zoe. :smallamused:

Zoe: Take me cap'n take me hard.
Jayne: Now somethin' about that is just downright unsettling.

[Trickywiggy]

Far from it. They're sticking with him while they're still a team. However, when things go awry and Belkar's fate finally catches up to him, they're not going to try and bring a Chaotic Evil character back from the dead. They discussed that in panel 8 - He's just as evil as he always has been, he's just playing along for the greater good at the time being.

"Evolve or Die"

[TMC]

I wonder, though... why is most of the shirt-armor thingy blue, while the shoulders are steel-colored? Are they made of a different material?
(If this was runescape, then the shirt would be mithril and the shoulders would be steel :smalltongue:.) But seriously...

Paint, silly. Some people prefer their armour a different colour then that plain old steel colour.

[NakedCelt]

Ummm? As a general rule, the planet you're on goes round it's sun in a year (you know, it's local year). Generally, it doesn't matter which calender you use, it takes the same amount of time going round. 1 year = 1 year IYSWIM anywhere on the planet without regard for how people describe the local time. Planets have no sense of consideration, obviously.

Not necessarily. Some cultures' calendars refer mainly to the moon, and consider a "year" to be twelve lunar cycles (usually inserting a thirteenth every so often to keep roughly in line with the seasons). Our calendar's only remnant of that system is the way the date of Easter jumps around.

As for the Belkar issue... I think Shojo is more cunning than our Belkster has reckoned on, and our favourite halfling is going to find "pretending to have character development" backwashing into his real personality. When he dies it will mean something.

Now, I'm wondering something. Roy's been dead. Elan's been in prison and learned to swashbuckle. Vaarsuvius has taken off on hir own, rented hir soul to fiends, gained the supreme arcane power ze always wanted and suffered humiliating defeat for it at Xykon's bony phalanges. Haley had her speech problem, and Belkar had the MoJ.

What about Durkon? Does his solo adventure and fling with Hilgya in the Dungeon of Dorukan count? Because, unlike all the others I've just mentioned, it doesn't seem to have been a very transformative experience. He's the same character as before. When does he get his personal crisis?

[SinsI]

{Scrubbed}

[Tubal-Cain]

Ah; good point. That wouldn't stop him from going part of the way, though, right?
Maybe. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) it says that the Sapphire Guard's oaths prevent them from seeking out the other gates. Maybe they could skirt that rule by claiming his mission is to escort the OotS, and it's the Order that is doing the seeking, but that would push the boundaries of their lawfulness. They seem to frown on obeying the letter of the law while violating the intent behind it.

[abishur]

I believe it would. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

It really comes down to a question of how much are the paladins still duty bound to Soon's oath since both Soon and his gate are now gone?

That aside, I don't think O-Chul would go with the party regardless. He's a man who clearly loves his country and would trust the PC to do their jobs and stick around to rebuild his country/retake his homeland.

[Kaytara]

Haven't read all the pages, but I thought I'd throw it in, anyway... Previously, there was some confusion about whether or not Roy was able to see V's fight with Xykon, given that he seemed to have gone up to his dad for it and later told Eugene to KEEP scrying. This strip renders it irrelevant, because he wasn't actually haunting the realm of the living then, so anything he saw then was part of all that happy haze.
...Interestingly, that also happens to include pretty much everything that's happened on the fleet, including Kubota's plotting and V's antics. Huh.


What about Durkon? Does his solo adventure and fling with Hilgya in the Dungeon of Dorukan count? Because, unlike all the others I've just mentioned, it doesn't seem to have been a very transformative experience. He's the same character as before. When does he get his personal crisis?

Durkon has a whole bunch of prophecies about him - not only will he return to his homeland after dying, he will apparently also bring death and destruction to everyone. His fling with Hilgya may also have long-term repercussions. These will presumably all come into play when the group heads for Kraagor's gate.

[Hrairoo]

oh, man, yes! i just love tying up loose plot ends! finally! the entire party is back together!

awesome as always, mr giant. i'm looking forward to roy's and roy's archon's plan that will take on xykon in 7 weeks. :smallsmile:

[banjo1985]

Heh, done in seven weeks, that will be interesting to see. And O-Chul ripping Belkar's throat out with his bare hands too. :smalltongue:

[Hacktor]

great comic :D Loved the title :)

[VictorScissors]

Even if Belkar dies, why would they not just raise him (apart from the price of diamonds)?

[Asarth]

Even if Belkar dies, why would they not just raise him (apart from the price of diamonds)?

Maybe they would, but they have lots of reasons not to. Above those reasons, the Oracle's prophecy is that Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - by the end of the year. If they wanted to, it would not work out in the end as the prophecy excludes that possibility.

[Random832]

Even if Belkar dies, why would they not just raise him (apart from the price of diamonds)?

The most obvious reason is because he's evil.

[Terminalchaos]

Maybe they would, but they have lots of reasons not to. Above those reasons, the Oracle's prophecy is that Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - by the end of the year. If they wanted to, it would not work out in the end as the prophecy excludes that possibility.

Last breath drawn doesn't necessarily mean he isn't still moving and lethal. I could see Belkar becoming undead or otherworldly imbued though I could just as easily see him having a death that is ironically heroic.

[Jagos]

The most obvious reason is because he's evil.

No, he has been decently loyal to the party members. Something just isn't right with the situation.

[Random832]

No, he has been decently loyal to the party members. Something just isn't right with the situation.

Well - it's possible that due to the prophecy they'll believe it won't work and won't bother.

Or it could be the fact that, you know, he's evil - and while Roy was able to justify not killing him, bringing him back into the world is a bit much to answer for.

[Jagos]

I know but... something tells me the "fake" character growth that Belkar had as a revelation is REALLY going to affect how others see him in such a positive way that someone will HAVE to bring him back or commune with him while he's dead.

[fruityjanitor]

I wonder if they will pull it off...

If that's the case, then Belkar might not die until the end of the strip. That's interesting.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking after reading some of Roy's lines a couple times. It would be pretty awesome if Belkar gets to do a heroic sacrifice at the climax (unless of course, he decides to join up with the villains, which is certainly possible :smallwink: ). It will also be interesting to see if the Belkster can pull a "screw destiny" on this particular prophecy.

Anyway, this was a great page. I'm sure we'll be getting our "end of the arc" splash page soon. Also, O-Chul's talk with Belkar was pretty much exactly what I expected. Still awesome though!

I think it would have been funny if the last panel cut to Nero and Co. or some generic demons for a punchline about how there should have been demons in this strip, but that may have been too distracting from Haley and Roy.

[Red XIV]

Even if Belkar dies, why would they not just raise him (apart from the price of diamonds)?
He might die in a manner that precludes doing so. Or he might like whatever afterlife he ends up in, and refuse to be raised. The Oracle's prediction indicates that Belkar will die a permanent death, which means something will come up to stop him from being raised.

[jamroar]

No, he has been decently loyal to the party members. Something just isn't right with the situation.

Roy is just waiting around for Belkar to die at this point (and mistakenly thinks that he is on a massive evil spike).
Durkon was annoyed they even let him out of prison, and looks disappointed that Belkar is still around during the OOTS reunion.
Haley doesn't trust Belkar any further than she can throw Belkar, and now she knows about his killing of the Oracle, the last straw that she personally kicked Belkar out of the OOTS to fend for himself at the time.
V now sees him as a distraction to his pursuit of ultimate arcane power, and couldn't care less about him. Belkar's death would just be one less constant annoyance to bother him.
Elan is the only one who might miss the little psycho at the moment, but even he might decide it's better that way and let sleeping dogs lie.

So, no, I don't see the OOTS raising Belkar if he does get himself killed. However, that decision will likely be out of their hands.

[BillyJimBoBob]

yes- he already appears to have "forgiven" or at least, chosen not to punish, Belkar for his act (abandonment).

"Funny, I always figured I'd be killed by a paladin."

said while Miko was charging him, could be foreshadowing of something that will happen much later, we will have to wait and see.O-chul won't kill Belkar unless he sees him committing evil acts. But it's a moot point in any event. Belkar is going to die at the hand of V.

[DigoDragon]

Re: Belkar and Ochul-- I called it. :smallsmile: Not that it means anything as I bet 10 gold pieces that two dozen of you all called it too. There's more speculation on this comic than on the Stock Market. :smallbiggrin:

I too like the sunset panel.

[David Argall]

{Scrubbed}



Does this world even have a moon?
See 155

O-Chul forgiving Belkar was possible, but thanking him? Quite unreasonable. O-Chul's "achievements" in Azure City were distinctly modest, and could easily be disastrous in the long run. Even if we allow good results from a bad idea, this doesn't work here. Nor is Belkar's action particularly bad in the first place. It hardly counts as heroic to dump a body you can't carry, but it is absurd to keep it and get oneself killed as well.

[Selene]

I don't want to start a debate either; just to state that, in my opinion, and judging from her behavior, she was originally Neutral (not even really chaotic) but grew better with time. (And just because a person states he or she belongs to an alignment doesn't mean they're telling the truth- especially if they happen to be thieves! :smallwink: )

But nobody could understand her, because she was still speaking in scrambled. And she was trying to break her speech block. She had no reason to lie, and every reason to tell the truth.

[abishur]

{Scrubbed}

[abishur]

But nobody could understand her, because she was still speaking in scrambled. And she was trying to break her speech block. She had no reason to lie, and every reason to tell the truth.

Hey now, hey now, no one wants to derail this into another what's Haley's alignment thread :smallwink: if you wanna go down that little rabbit trail I think the most recent thread that discusses it is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110244) you can probably here all your arguments hashed out without having to write anything new just by reading the first 3 pages :smallbiggrin: