Up Roy's Sleeve

[Optimystik]

There's something fishy about Roy's extreme confidence. Taking out an epic lich, his near-epic cleric sidekick, and their accompanying army - in just seven weeks? Did he whack his head when he fell in #665?


The context of the conversation is puzzling also. Why has Belkar's remaining lifespan become the timetable for their victory? It's not as though Roy considers him particularly essential to the mission... or does he? And finally, could this strange self-assurance have anything to do with his archon's mysterious errand?

In short: what is up Roy's sleeve? (or vambrace/gauntlet/etc.)

[Fitzclowningham]

It appears he doesn't remember the archon's mysterious errand, unless he was lying to Haley for some reason.

[Optimystik]

He remembers that there WAS an archon (the "glowing ball of light") which means he may or may not remember his instructions to it. We don't know yet...

[Ehra]

There's something fishy about Roy's extreme confidence. Taking out an epic lich, his near-epic cleric sidekick, and their accompanying army - in just seven weeks? Did he whack his head when he fell in #665?


The context of the conversation is puzzling also. Why has Belkar's remaining lifespan become the timetable for their victory? It's not as though Roy considers him particularly essential to the mission... or does he? And finally, could this strange self-assurance have anything to do with his archon's mysterious errand?

In short: what is up Roy's sleeve? (or vambrace/gauntlet/etc.)

I don't think he meant he planned on finishing everything in seven weeks, just that Belkar had about that long to live and he hopes Belkar doesn't cause any trouble in that time while he's pretending to be good.

edit: Nevermind, just fully read what Haley said.

[Optimystik]

I don't think he meant he planned on finishing everything in seven weeks, just that Belkar had about that long to live and he hopes Belkar doesn't cause any trouble in that time while he's pretending to be good

He pretty explicitly said he's going to wrap everything up (or try to) in that time frame.

"Do you really think we can end this whole thing - beat Xykon and the goblins - in just seven weeks?"

"I'll bet you ten gold pieces we can."

Like I said, confident... but given what they're up against, I don't see how it's possible, short of a miracle. Or rather, I see how it might be possible, but not how ROY might think it's a certainty.

[NerfTW]

I think he meant that Belkar has seven weeks to live. Then Haley pointed out that losing Belkar would be a big blow to their power level, so they would need to defeat Xykon in seven weeks.


That, or his archon is doing something at that point.

[Kaytara]

Well, a 14th level ranger is a 14th level ranger. Roy knows that they'll lose that killing machine in seven weeks so it'd be best to try and wrap things up while he still has that asset. Haley asks "You really think we can do that?" and he answers "Sure we can". I'm not really seeing overconfidence there, just optimism.

[Moonself]

If I got Roy's speech right (which might not be so sure), I assume that he can remember everything that happened before the golden gate, while the "heaven" itself is somehow blurry. So, if he instructed the archon while he was "on this side" of the golde gate, he should remember the instructions and the "plan", whatever it is.

*EDIT* Someday I should really start to check spelling before posting.

[Cleverdan22]

Yeah, I would say he's just being optimistic. He was just rezzed and reunited with his friends and girlfriend. He's just fairly happy right now.

[factotum]

Like I said, confident... but given what they're up against, I don't see how it's possible, short of a miracle. Or rather, I see how it might be possible, but not how ROY might think it's a certainty.

I don't see that betting someone 10gp means you think you're on to a certainty. Don't forget what level the OotS are--according to standard wealth-by-level guidelines Roy would have tens of thousands of gp to his name; OK, OotS doesn't necessarily follow those, but even so, I doubt that 10gp is that much of a big deal to him. No more significant than if I bet someone a fiver I could do something in a certain timescale.

[Thrar]

Which strip was it where he sends the archon on that errand? I can't seem to remember...

[Timberboar]

Which strip was it where he sends the archon on that errand? I can't seem to remember...

664. I'd link it, but... well, just hit back a couple times.

[Glinthall]

He pretty explicitly said he's going to wrap everything up (or try to) in that time frame.

"Do you really think we can end this whole thing - beat Xykon and the goblins - in just seven weeks?"

"I'll bet you ten gold pieces we can."

Like I said, confident... but given what they're up against, I don't see how it's possible, short of a miracle. Or rather, I see how it might be possible, but not how ROY might think it's a certainty.

I know that my interpretation is not bullet proof, but this is how I read it.

Roy was referencing the fact that Belkar doesn't have long to live. I'm assuming that this means that the year is almost over in game time. Haley's response seems like she misunderstood what Roy meant. I don't think Roy has told them any of what he saw as a spirit because he has to tell her here that the mark of justice was triggered by Belkar killing the oracle (he got better). When Roy realized that Haley misunderstood what he said because he didn't disclose the time frame given by the oracle, he optimistically played up the slip instead of raining despair on an otherwise cheery moment. Perhaps Roy just set a new goal that he hadn't planned on. The panel of contemplation over the sunset might be Roy considering the difficulty of the new schedule he just put himself on and the realization that he'll need the help of all his friends to pull it off. This contemplation triggers the question of whether or not he just stacked the deck against himself by making the bet.

Like I said, this argument is in no way bullet proof. The biggest problem is that I would have expected more of a reaction from Haley when she found out that Belkar killed the oracle and not just one of his attendants (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html).

[NerfTW]

Which strip was it where he sends the archon on that errand? I can't seem to remember...

You can't remember four days ago? Or just click back two strips?

[Finwe]

It seems to me that he's quite confident Belkar will be gone in seven weeks, but the bet about wrapping up the campaign was probably just optimism. He *might* have this optimism because of the archon's errand, or it might just be because he's in a good mood from being recently resurrected and united with his friends.

[Optimystik]

It probably IS just optimism, but it seems different. The "calm of absolute certainty" isn't just a phrase; other (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html) times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html) Roy's displayed plain optimism were accompanied by bold and even braggadocious exhortations (especially his vow in Origin, standing on the library desk and proclaiming his intent so loudly he had to be shushed.) Yet this time, he quite evenly and without fanfare predicts Team Evil's utter defeat within a mere seven weeks; yet this comes after over three months of Redcloak solidifying his power base, and decades and decades of existence for the lich. So either Roy has something devious planned or... well... I don't know.

[Pip]

It seems to me that he's quite confident Belkar will be gone in seven weeks, but the bet about wrapping up the campaign was probably just optimism. He *might* have this optimism because of the archon's errand, or it might just be because he's in a good mood from being recently resurrected and united with his friends.

I saw it as just the opposite. Roy thinks they can take down Zykon in 7 weeks, and after that they won't need Belkar. Thus, if Belkar keeps up his ploy for at least that long, they're good to go.

[Zerg Cookie]

I saw it as just the opposite. Roy thinks they can take down Zykon in 7 weeks, and after that they won't need Belkar. Thus, if Belkar keeps up his ploy for at least that long, they're good to go.

Who's this Zykon guy? :smallconfused:

[timoteob]

I know that my interpretation is not bullet proof, but this is how I read it.

Roy was referencing the fact that Belkar doesn't have long to live. I'm assuming that this means that the year is almost over in game time. Haley's response seems like she misunderstood what Roy meant. I don't think Roy has told them any of what he saw as a spirit because he has to tell her here that the mark of justice was triggered by Belkar killing the oracle (he got better). When Roy realized that Haley misunderstood what he said because he didn't disclose the time frame given by the oracle, he optimistically played up the slip instead of raining despair on an otherwise cheery moment. Perhaps Roy just set a new goal that he hadn't planned on. The panel of contemplation over the sunset might be Roy considering the difficulty of the new schedule he just put himself on and the realization that he'll need the help of all his friends to pull it off. This contemplation triggers the question of whether or not he just stacked the deck against himself by making the bet.

Like I said, this argument is in no way bullet proof. The biggest problem is that I would have expected more of a reaction from Haley when she found out that Belkar killed the oracle and not just one of his attendants (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html).

This is exactly how in interpreted the conversation.

[Kbcamaster]

I think he's just Optimystik.:smallwink:

And I hoped he was gonna say "Yes, we can", not "Sure we can"... to quote Obama, you know. :smallbiggrin:

[Meg]

I agree, something does strike me as a little fishy. When he was first being evaluated for heaven, it was suggested he multi-class to cleric. Maybe he's going to take the Deva's advice and become a cleric with plans to turn Belkar into an undead?

[CrimsonAngel]

His confidence and Belkar's overconfidence will get Belkar killed by Xykon.

[Optimystik]

I think he's just Optimystik.:smallwink:

:smalltongue:


Roy was referencing the fact that Belkar doesn't have long to live. I'm assuming that this means that the year is almost over in game time. Haley's response seems like she misunderstood what Roy meant. I don't think Roy has told them any of what he saw as a spirit because he has to tell her here that the mark of justice was triggered by Belkar killing the oracle (he got better). When Roy realized that Haley misunderstood what he said because he didn't disclose the time frame given by the oracle, he optimistically played up the slip instead of raining despair on an otherwise cheery moment. Perhaps Roy just set a new goal that he hadn't planned on. The panel of contemplation over the sunset might be Roy considering the difficulty of the new schedule he just put himself on and the realization that he'll need the help of all his friends to pull it off. This contemplation triggers the question of whether or not he just stacked the deck against himself by making the bet.

While this is a possibility, I think Haley is perceptive enough - and enough of a realist - to catch the cues in Roy's speech that would indicate he's promising something that he's unsure of being able deliver. She wouldn't be that easily put at ease. Of course, there's the possibility that she picked up on it and merely wanted to be convinced, but simply saying that she swallowed his exhortation whole when even he wasn't convinced stretches the bounds of credibility to me.

We're talking about the girl who repeatedly tells the rest of the party to grow ranks in Sense Motive - the one who instantly saw through both Belkar's deception and V's change, after all. I don't think Roy could convince her with anything less than absolute certainty.

[Morgan Wick]

That, or his archon is doing something at that point.

Now THAT is an interesting theory! It's not necessarily that the end of the year is in seven weeks, but that something will happen IN seven weeks that will render any future Belkar mojo irrelevant, and maybe even serve as a deus ex machina for the whole story!

I think it's Haley we should be wondering about, not Roy. The easy interpretation of Roy's seven-weeks statement is that that's when the end of the year comes. Haley then brings up ending the whole mission in that time, phrasing it in such a way that she thinks Roy brought it up. So either the connection to the New Year just didn't occur to her (remember, there are two different calendars floating around), or she thinks Belkar is in some way crucial to the mission. I think I favor the former interpretation.

[werik]

I would agree that Roy definitely has something planned and that Roy's Archon will be integral to its execution. But I think that his confidence shows a bit of character growth for him as well. After all, in On the Origin of PC's Roy wants to turn the party around after the first incident with the Kobolds but now after watching the party run into every possible adversity to reuniting the party and bringing him back, he thinks that he can handle the situation. I think Roy has developed in having faith in the other members of his party as well as knowing their strengths and weaknesses. This is essentially the difference between Roy and his father in these recent strips. Eugene looks at the situation with Vaarsuvius and commends him for trying to amass a bunch of power and take down Xykon on his own. Roy has more faith in the group than ever and is trusting in that to be Xykon's downfall.

[Lazy Fat Man]

I think it's Haley we should be wondering about, not Roy. The easy interpretation of Roy's seven-weeks statement is that that's when the end of the year comes. Haley then brings up ending the whole mission in that time, phrasing it in such a way that she thinks Roy brought it up. So either the connection to the New Year just didn't occur to her (remember, there are two different calendars floating around), or she thinks Belkar is in some way crucial to the mission. I think I favor the former interpretation.

Remember, Haley doesn't know that Belkar is going to die before the new year, so she assumed that Roy was implying that they will have defeated Xykon by then. Why Roy went along with that assumption is anyone's guess.

EDIT. I just reread the comic, and Roy does say that Belkar will die. Of course, Haley doesn't know that it's an oracle prediction and not just Roy talking smack.

REEDIT. Okay, I just rereread the comic, and seeing as that Roy was just talking about how Belkar killed the oracle, it is probable that Haley, being the intelligent person she is, figured that Roy was talking about a prediction the oracle made. So um... yeah.

[Bibliomancer]

Perhaps Roy is counting on those instructions that he vaguely remembers giving to the archon bearing fruit. One of the interesting quirks of the MM is that lantern archons have a touch attack that can overcome damge reduction of any type, making them one of the few low CR monsters that can threaten high level opponents in great numbers. Gathering together enough lantern archons to constitute a level 16 encounter (128) would give you a force capable of possibly taking down Xykon if he doesn't fireball them first.

[Optimystik]

Perhaps Roy is counting on those instructions that he vaguely remembers giving to the archon bearing fruit. One of the interesting quirks of the MM is that lantern archons have a touch attack that can overcome damge reduction of any type, making them one of the few low CR monsters that can threaten high level opponents in great numbers. Gathering together enough lantern archons to constitute a level 16 encounter (128) would give you a force capable of possibly taking down Xykon if he doesn't fireball them first.

It would certainly be a better strategy than what Dorukan tried to use on him. :smallsigh: