Is it broken? (feats)

[Nolfar]

I was reading the discussion onquarterstaffs and it's gotten a bit derailed from teh original, however, it made me think of some feats to post here that I might adopt in future games that I GM.

Ascetic Defence
Prerequisites: Proficency with staves, BAB +4, Flurry of Blows class ability, Combat Expertise
Benefit: When weilding a staff in both hands, either as a two handed weapon or a double weapon, you may trade in BAB for AC at one and a half times the normal rate from Combat Expertise. Like Combat Expertise, you cannot trade more than five points of BAB for AC. Also, if you have Improved Combat Expertise, you may trade in as much BAB as you have, as per Improved Combat Expertise.
Normal: using Combat Expertise reduces your attack by up to five points and gives an equal amount to your AC.

Staffed Reach
Prerequisites: Dex 16, proficency with staves
Benefit: You may trade in all normal attacks with your staff to make a single attack at double the normal reach as if weilding one handed. This provokes attacks of oppertunity. You cannot use this ability with power attack or cleave.
Normal: A medium quarterstaff has a reach of 5'

Humiliating Blows
Prerequisites: Dex 14, proficency with staves, Combat Expertise
Benefit: You may apply use the quarter staff to make trip attempts. Doing so provokes attacks of oppertunity as normal unless you have Improved Trip.
Normal: Only unarmed attacks some special weapons may be used to trip foes.

Teacher's Aid
Prerequisites: proficency with staves
Benefit: You may use your staff to make subdual attacks with no penalty.
Normal: Subdual attacks suffer a -4 penalty

I'm also thinking about making these feats all into one weapon style feat, but I don't know exactally wht sorts of Prerequisites I want for that, or even if that would be a really balanced idea.

[fuzzymoogle]

I'd make "Staffed Reach" be dex-based instead of strength-based in my opinion, but the rest look eenteresting.

[Nolfar]

I thought strength mostly because you're weilding it like a REALLY big club when you do.

[Thomas]

Humiliating Blows
Prerequisites: Dex 14, proficency with staves, Combat Expertise
Benefit: You may apply use the quarter staff to make trip attacks and disarm attempts. Doing so provokes attacks of oppertunity as normal unless you have Improved Disarm and/or Improved Trip.
Normal: Only unarmed attacks some special weapons may be used to disarm or trip foes.

Bolded part is partly incorrect.

SRD on...
"DISARM
As a melee attack, you may attempt to disarm your opponent. If you do so with a weapon, you knock the opponent’s weapon out of his hands and to the ground. If you attempt the disarm while unarmed, you end up with the weapon in your hand."

You don't need a special weapon to make disarm attempts. There is no weapon that says "You can make disarm attacks with the [weapon]" (whereas there are weapons that specify they can be used to trip). Certain weapons give a +2 bonus to disarm attempts, but that's it.

EDIT:


I thought strength mostly because you're weilding it like a REALLY big club when you do.

The staff techniques I've seen would actually do this as a thrust. You hold one hand low on the staff, and slide the other down it as you thrust, while moving at least one foot forward, thus getting longer reach (but probably less "bang", as most of the staff's weight is going to be far from your hands). Swinging a weapon as long as the staff over your head like a big club seems like a poor proposition, with little extra reach.

[Nolfar]

Noted, and editing then. Thanks. ^_^

[Starbuck_II]

I like them. Definately useful.

So I can assume Staffed Reach increases most staff attacks to 10 feet since staffs aren't normaly reach weapons.

Reach weapons reach increases with size, but staff wouldn't.

[Nolfar]

A normal medium weapon has a 5' reach which would increase to 10' with th efeat, yes. If you were large, however, it would start with a 10' reach (and would be nearly 18 feet, IIRC) and so on.

[Democratus]

Perhaps for Staffed Reach you should also disallow any AC bonuses of type "Dodge" to reflect that you are overextended?

Otherwise it seems that you are sacrificing little when taking this feat at early levels (where you have one attack anyway).

Just a suggestion.

[Nolfar]

Actually, I put the AoOs in there for that. It seemed to me to be closer to the precident really.

[Everyman]

Everything looks good to me, save one detail: Ascetic Defense. Giving someone double the AC bonus is just a tad too potent. I suggest a 1.5 ratio, rounding up. (Take a -2, gain a +3 AC....take a -3, gain a +5 AC).

[Nolfar]

Good idea, thanks.

[stainboy]

Ascetic Defense

I'm pretty wary of anything that gives monks a big boost to their AC. Low AC is the only hole in a monk's otherwhise solid defense. Monks get high speed, combat maneuver feats, Tumble in-class, 3 good saves, respectable touch AC... every defensive advantage except fighter/cleric-grade armor class. This feat could make a well-played monk unkillable.

Staffed Reach

Awesome! I like this one. Although since the biggest advantage of a reach weapon is the ability to make AoOs on enemies as they break range, I would change the mechanics a bit. Let the player choose at the start of each turn whether to use his staff normally or as a reach weapon for that turn.

Compare this to simply taking Quick Draw and carrying a reach weapon. On the one hand, taking Quick Draw would give most characters a harder-hitting reach wepaon, and be useful in other situations besides. On the other hand, taking Staffed Reach would let a staff specialist use his staff feats and his badass magic quarterstaff instead of switching to a nonmagical polearm. Sounds about even to me.

Humiliating Blows

I'm confused about what mechanical advantage you'd gain from this. How would tripping with a staff be more advantageous than tripping normally?

Teacher's Aid

Solid idea. I'd extend this to include clubs too though.

---------------------------------------------------

One more I think would be worth adding, more of a "workhorse" feat than a combat maneuver:

Staff Mastery

Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, proficiency with the quarterstaff.

You gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls when wielding a staff as a two-handed weapon, and a +1 shield bonus to AC when wielding it as a double weapon. The AC bonus stacks with the shield bonus granted by the Two-Weapon Defense feat.

The purpose of this feat is to bring staves up on par with exotic double weapons like two-bladed swords, at the same cost - one feat slot.

[SolusTempus]

Humiliating Blows

I'm confused about what mechanical advantage you'd gain from this. How would tripping with a staff be more advantageous than tripping normally?

So you don't have to put down your weapon to trip, and you could combine ti with the reach attack feat to do trips from range.

[fuzzymoogle]

I thought strength mostly because you're weilding it like a REALLY big club when you do.
Ah, I was thinking more of a martial-arts style thrust rather than a big swing.

[Nolfar]

Ascetic Defense

I'm pretty wary of anything that gives monks a big boost to their AC. Low AC is the only hole in a monk's otherwhise solid defense. Monks get high speed, combat maneuver feats, Tumble in-class, 3 good saves, respectable touch AC... every defensive advantage except fighter/cleric-grade armor class. This feat could make a well-played monk unkillable.

Staffed Reach

Awesome! I like this one. Although since the biggest advantage of a reach weapon is the ability to make AoOs on enemies as they break range, I would change the mechanics a bit. Let the player choose at the start of each turn whether to use his staff normally or as a reach weapon for that turn. (Consider that this is no more powerful than simply taking Quick Draw and carrying a reach weapon.)

Humiliating Blows

I'm confused about what mechanical advantage you'd gain from this. How would tripping with a staff be more advantageous than tripping normally?

Teacher's Aid

Solid idea. I'd extend this to include clubs too though.

---------------------------------------------------

One more I think would be worth adding, more of a "workhorse" feat than a combat maneuver:

Staff Mastery

Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, proficiency with the quarterstaff.

You gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls when wielding a staff as a two-handed weapon, and a +1 shield bonus to AC when wielding it as a double weapon. The AC bonus stacks with the shield bonus granted by the Two-Weapon Defense feat.

The purpose of this feat is to bring staves up on par with exotic double weapons like two-bladed swords, at the same cost - one feat slot.

Ascetic Defense: Honestly, in ways you're right, however, at the same time, to use the ability they need to lower their BAB, requiring that they either increase their Str to make up for it, or simply lose a % chance to hit. Same as with (Improved) Combat Expertise, but at a more favorable rate.

Staffed Reach: I was thinking more that this would be for those times when you can't get into direct melee. Most staves are not built for that kind of reach normally, though perhaps if I used your idea, I'd make it do one step lower damage (as you don't have proper leverage or a good striking surface) and still not allow power attack and cleave.

Humiliating Blows: The advantage would be 1) using it in conjunction with Staffed Reach (yes, there's a point to that feat!) and in that you're weilding a larger weapon (unarmed is "light" and a quarderstaff is "two-handed") for a total +8 bonus (-4 light, +4 two-handed). You could also drop the staff instead of being tripped yourself if you fail.

Teacher's Aid: this feat comes from actual monestary pratice actually. Monks sometimes "corect" pupils by hitting them upside the head or on the back with a stick (staff) or paddle. Not really sure if a club would fit in with that, I think of a club as more being a somewhat thick branch from a sturdy tree.

Staff Mastery: Beautiful job, I definately like that. It also shows me that I might want to try and roll my own feats into an actual maneuver feat, as per Complete Warrior. Still semi-clueless on how to make it hard to get but not overkill though.

[stainboy]

So you don't have to put down your weapon to trip, and you could combine ti with the reach attack feat to do trips from range.


Didn't think about combining that with Staffed Reach. That's cool. Not worth a feat by itself though, considering you're paying two feats for that maneuver and spiked chain wielders still put it to shame.

Also, you don't have to have a hand free to make an unarmed attack. An unarmed attack isn't necessarily a punch - it can be a kick, head-butt, just about anything.

[Nolfar]

Didn't think about combining that with Staffed Reach. That's cool. Not worth a feat by itself though, considering you're paying two feats for that maneuver and spiked chain wielders still put it to shame.

Also, you don't have to have a hand free to make an unarmed attack. An unarmed attack isn't necessarily a punch - it can be a kick, head-butt, just about anything.

Actually, the chain fighter part there is part of why I'm thinking about rolling all four original feats into one.

[stainboy]

Ascetic Defense: Honestly, in ways you're right, however, at the same time, to use the ability they need to lower their BAB, requiring that they either increase their Str to make up for it, or simply lose a % chance to hit. Same as with (Improved) Combat Expertise, but at a more favorable rate.

Yeah, I thought about that. What I'm worried about is monks' combat maneuver feats. Most monks in 3.5 have either Improved Trip or Improved Grapple, both of which just require a touch attack to hit. Landing a touch attack isn't hard, even at half your normal base attack bonus.


Humiliating Blows: The advantage would be 1) using it in conjunction with Staffed Reach (yes, there's a point to that feat!) and in that you're weilding a larger weapon (unarmed is "light" and a quarderstaff is "two-handed") for a total +8 bonus (-4 light, +4 two-handed). You could also drop the staff instead of being tripped yourself if you fail.

Weapon size modifiers don't apply to trip attempts like they do to disarms and sunders. If a specific weapon can be used to trip, it gives +2 to trip and can be dropped to avoid the counter-trip. The weapon's size and handedness don't matter.


Teacher's Aid: this feat comes from actual monestary pratice actually. Monks sometimes "corect" pupils by hitting them upside the head or on the back with a stick (staff) or paddle. Not really sure if a club would fit in with that, I think of a club as more being a somewhat thick branch from a sturdy tree.

I was just suggesting extending it to other weapons as a mechanical thing. I understand the inspiration behind the feat.

I believe there's a feat in some book or other that lets you deal subdual damage with ALL weapons without the -4 penalty. Which is kinda silly, since I can't imagine any way to deal subdual damage with a greataxe, but compared to that just being able to deal subdual with staves seems kinda underpowered.


Staff Mastery: Beautiful job, I definately like that. It also shows me that I might want to try and roll my own feats into an actual maneuver feat, as per Complete Warrior. Still semi-clueless on how to make it hard to get but not overkill though.

Thanks.

As to making one tactical feat, I don't really know how to combine them. I could see Staffed Reach, Humiliating Blows, and Teacher's Aid all being rolled into one feat, if the prerequisites were higher. Maybe require Weapon Focus(Quarterstaff) and TWF.

[Nolfar]

Actually, I think you solved it. Thanks.

Whirling Wood [Tactical]
Prerequisites: Dex 16, proficency with staves, BAB +6, Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting, Staff Mastery

Whirling Wood gives you several combat maneuvers at your disposal. You may use any of them in a given turn, provided you have enough attacks per round.

Staffed Reach
You may trade in all normal attacks with your staff to make a single attack at double the normal reach as if weilding one handed. This provokes attacks of oppertunity. You cannot use this ability with power attack or cleave.

Humiliating Blows
You may apply use the quarter staff to make trip attempts at +2 for your attempt. If you fail in your trip attempt, you may drop your weapon instead of being counter tripped. Doing so provokes attacks of oppertunity as normal unless you have Improved Trip.

Teacher's Aid
You may use your staff to make subdual attacks with no penalty.

[stainboy]

Nice.

[Maryring]

Well that seems to me like a wonderful feat that I would love to play if I played a staff specialized Monk.

[stainboy]

Oh, hey, just noticed you included a monk class feature as a prerequisite. Why? I can't see any mechanical reason, and I'd love to take this as a ranger.

[Nolfar]

Because, honestly, I see it as being a bit of a monk weapon to begin with. That said, I suppose you could change it to BAB +6 instead. Also, I was mostly copying in the prereqs from the original feats, which has flurry being one for...nevermind, the ony feat that isn't in the tactical feat anyway, lol.

[Jestir256]

I don't see why anyone NOT a monk would be particularly interested in this feat, but... there seems to be a convention among core feats that implies that more than one character class can take them. So you don't have much to lose from knocking off flurry of blows from the prereqs. I mean, maybe a WIZARD could find a use for this.

[Darkie]

I don't think the monk staff weapon is consistant with the quarterstaff depicted in the statistics... well, if martial arts are anything to go by.

[larnman2]

Would it be bad to make it so mental leap can be increased via,making it stackable by making it your feat multiple times, or having so you can spend psionic points on it? Because, when it comes to calling mystical powers from an an astral plane to come beat up material physics, +10 to jump is kinda sad.

[Jerthanis]

I've actually had my eye on an optional houserule or feat to make Sword-and-board as popular as I remember it being back in 2nd edition. Where Combat Reflexes would add 2 x the bonus to AC if using a shield... but that's not really balanced, since 2 AC is relatively more powerful than 2 points of damage (the bonus for power attacking a two hander) Perhaps this 1.5 times will work towards this end. For example:

Defensive Warrior
Prerequisites: Shield proficiency, BAB +6, Combat Expertise, Dodge(?)
Benefit: When using a shield, you may use Combat Expertise to trade in one and a half times the bonus you would normally get.
Normal: Each point of penalty to hit grants +1 to AC

Does anyone think such a feat would be unbalanced? Should Dodge be a prereq? If it were Fighter 6th (or 9th or 12th) instead of BAB+6, would it be balanced to allow it to be fully 2 times the AC rate? Could there be another fighter-only feat to do that with this feat as a prerequisite?

[TheDarkOne]

For Ascetic Defence you should require that, to gain the benifits of the feat, all attacks made must come from the staff they're weilding in both hands. Otherwise a monk could weild a staf in both hands, and just make regular unarmed attacks for all their attacks(which they can do while their hands are full), and still get the benifit of the feat.

[Nolfar]

For Ascetic Defence you should require that, to gain the benifits of the feat, all attacks made must come from the staff they're weilding in both hands. Otherwise a monk could weild a staf in both hands, and just make regular unarmed attacks for all their attacks(which they can do while their hands are full), and still get the benifit of the feat.

Actually, the feat lowers your BAB, like Power Attack and Combat Expertise, so it doesn't matter what you attack with really, you have the lowered ability to hit either way.

[TheDarkOne]

Actually, the feat lowers your BAB, like Power Attack and Combat Expertise, so it doesn't matter what you attack with really, you have the lowered ability to hit either way.

Yes, but presumably the idea is they're using the staff for this added deffence. For combat expertise, like this one, you have to attack the benfit, so presumably you're attacking in such a way as to make your self harder to hit. The idea of this feat seems to extend that idea to Quarter Staffs(only you can do it better with the staff), so I'd think you'd have to attack, at least once, with the staff for this to work.

Also, even if their BAB is lowered, a monk will still quite likely have higher damage with unarmed strike then with the staff(and possibly higher unarmed strike attack bonus depending feats and magic items, though this could go either way) , so yes, it does matter what you attack with.