Ebooks?

[Yenkaz]

Are there any chance some of the books will ever be released as E-books?

The books themselves are incredible hard to buy here, either they have outrageous high prices, or shipping will be very expensive(Europe)

[Optimystik]

I'd love Kindle versions of the series myself. It would be great for having the books in one place.

[NerfTW]

No, he's stated before that Ebooks would take too many orders away from the print versions to make them possible. With the numbers he sells, it's either one or the other. Ebooks would cause the print version's price to skyrocket, making them completely undoable.

Also, there's the piracy issue. But mostly it's due to not selling enough to do both.

[Optimystik]

No, he's stated before that Ebooks would take too many orders away from the print versions to make them possible. With the numbers he sells, it's either one or the other. Ebooks would cause the print version's price to skyrocket, making them completely undoable.

Also, there's the piracy issue. But mostly it's due to not selling enough to do both.

IIRC, that quote predated Kindle, or at least its popularity. It might be something to think about, if not in the near future, then after the entire series is complete.

[mockingbyrd7]

I don't understand... what is an "E-book"? It would seem that it's already a compilation of books in strip-by-strip form, online. Sounds like an internet book to me.

[Lissou]

IIRC, that quote predated Kindle, or at least its popularity. It might be something to think about, if not in the near future, then after the entire series is complete.

If I'm not mistaken, Kindle is in greyscale, not optimised for pictures and only the size of a pocket book. I can't see it being practical scrolling to the sides and up and down to be able to see the strip, and a "fit the screen" version wouldn't be readable.

[Assassin89]

I believe the bigger question is whether E-books could violate the Giant's copyright. If it violates copyright, then it will not happen.

[Random832]

I don't understand... what is an "E-book"? It would seem that it's already a compilation of books in strip-by-strip form, online. Sounds like an internet book to me.

except the books have lots of bonus material, and there are two whole books of non-online content.


I believe the bigger question is whether E-books could violate the Giant's copyright. If it violates copyright, then it will not happen.

Um, since the question was whether the Giant himself would choose to publish E-books, and since he is not capable of violating his own copyright, I think this question is wholly irrelevant to any form of reality.

[Optimystik]

I don't understand... what is an "E-book"? It would seem that it's already a compilation of books in strip-by-strip form, online. Sounds like an internet book to me.

He means the print-only publications, like SoD, Origin, and the bonus strips.


If I'm not mistaken, Kindle is in greyscale, not optimised for pictures and only the size of a pocket book. I can't see it being practical scrolling to the sides and up and down to be able to see the strip, and a "fit the screen" version wouldn't be readable.

We'll just call it "Past-O-Vision" :smallwink:

In all seriousness, reading comics on a pocket device isn't much of a problem. I read Penny Arcade and even OotS on my iPod Touch all the time with no troubles, and a Kindle App for the iPhone was released just a couple of months ago. Besides, like I said this is a far-off consideration, nothing immediate. I understand that the books are more profitable now, but being able to click through all of the volumes at a moment's notice would be excellent.

[rxmd]

In all seriousness, reading comics on a pocket device isn't much of a problem.
You can always save the comics manually, assemble them into a PDF and read them on your own device.

[Optimystik]

You can always save the comics manually, assemble them into a PDF and read them on your own device.

Clarifying one more time since it keeps coming up: I'm referring to the material NOT released as part of the online comic.

Now I could manually order the books, wait for each to be shipped, scan each page individually, compile them into a PDF, transfer them to my pocket device and read them that way... or I could press a button and pay a small fee. I know which one I'd rather do.

[Holammer]

Are there any chance some of the books will ever be released as E-books?

The books themselves are incredible hard to buy here, either they have outrageous high prices, or shipping will be very expensive(Europe)

Just suck it up and order the books. Not offering an E-book alternative is the best way to avoid piracy.
Focus on getting SoD and OtOoPC. They're not too expensive and offer a lot more bang for the buck than the three compilation books.

[factotum]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kindle a US-only thing at the moment?

[Ripped Shirt Kirk]

That would probably violate the copywright too, rxmd.

[NerfTW]

IIRC, that quote predated Kindle, or at least its popularity. It might be something to think about, if not in the near future, then after the entire series is complete.

But the situation still holds. Any electronic form of the book takes away from print copies, and he doesn't sell enough print copies to lose sales to a competing format. Remember, the cost of printing a book goes up as the amount produced goes down.


I believe the bigger question is whether E-books could violate the Giant's copyright. If it violates copyright, then it will not happen.


*facepalm*


That would probably violate the copywright too, rxmd.

It's personal use, so no, it wouldn't.

[Optimystik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kindle a US-only thing at the moment?

Yes it is, I was merely using it as an example of one of the better-known eBook offerings available. As Smartphones like the iPhone, G-1, Palm Pre and Storm grow in popularity, the distribution radius for digital media will rapidly expand in turn.

EDIT:


But the situation still holds. Any electronic form of the book takes away from print copies, and he doesn't sell enough print copies to lose sales to a competing format. Remember, the cost of printing a book goes up as the amount produced goes down.

As with all business decisions, it would require cost-benefit analysis. At some point in the future, I would expect the combination of the costs of printing additional books and the opportunity cost of having no digital distribution of the series to exceed the potential net revenues from offering such a format, even if that eventuality doesn't come about until after the Giant's lifetime. However far off in the future such an eventuality may be, there's still no harm in discussing the issue today.


That would probably violate the copywright too, rxmd.

It would if I were to show it to anyone else; otherwise it falls under Fair Use. But it would be an extremely time-consuming process, particularly for the page-heavy non-prequel books.

[veti]

As with all business decisions, it would require cost-benefit analysis. At some point in the future, I would expect the combination of the costs of printing additional books and the opportunity cost of having no digital distribution of the series to exceed the potential net revenues from offering such a format, even if that eventuality doesn't come about until after the Giant's lifetime. However far off in the future such an eventuality may be, there's still no harm in discussing the issue today.

Well, maybe - but by the same token, there's not much point in discussing the issue today. If and when it becomes viable, both the technology and the copyright/piracy issues will likely have changed beyond anything we can presently anticipate. So any conclusions we can come to now will probably be invalid by the time they matter.


It would if I were to show it to anyone else; otherwise it falls under Fair Use. But it would be an extremely time-consuming process, particularly for the page-heavy non-prequel books.

Unfortunately, Fair Use is more complicated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use) than that. What's being suggested here would almost certainly be illegal. But if you didn't show it to anyone, no-one would ever know, so it wouldn't matter how illegal it was...

[Roxlimn]

I would highly appreciate a for-iTouch version myself. I'm perfectly willing to pay $1 for every 100 pages or so - about $7 for the entire strip, in other words. That's a very solid something the Giant can use to estimate whether it would be good.

As for competition and piracy, I'm pretty sure OotS is already past that. There is absolutely no reason to pirate content on a PC if it can already be gotten for free on that same platform. If I wanted to view OotS for free and I have a PC, I can already do that - downloading a file under torrents would be less convenient than just reading the thing.

Likewise, I don't believe purchasers are buying OotS books because they want to read the comic - they can easily do that online. They're buying it because they like having a book-format product, so I'm fairly certain that a for-convenience product sold in iTunes will not be competing in the same sphere.

[yanmaodao]

That would probably violate the copywright too, rxmd.

I don't know what area of law online webcomics would fall under, but as a general rule making copies for personal use is always legal. That's why, you know, computer stores can sell rewritable CD's in the first place. Or, correct me if I'm wrong here, why first generation mp3 players were allowed - you could always be that .01% of the mp3 listening population that backs up your music CD's onto your hard drive, then converts them into mp3 files. (Yeah... :smallwink:)

Again, the law could be different for webcomics, but I don't see how they'd justify it if it were.

[xanaphia]

... you could always be that .01% of the mp3 listening population that backs up your music CD's onto your hard drive, then converts them into mp3 files. (Yeah... :smallwink:)

Um, that's all I use my iPod for...:smalleek:

[Jaltum]

I would highly appreciate a for-iTouch version myself. I'm perfectly willing to pay $1 for every 100 pages or so - about $7 for the entire strip, in other words. That's a very solid something the Giant can use to estimate whether it would be good.

...the three print books together cost about US$100. That includes bonus material, but still.

[rakkoon]

Isn't it cheaper in packaging if you buy multiple books? Anyway the dollar is very low at the moment so there's no time like the present.

I'm European too and waited till I couldn't contain myself anymore, MUST HAVE MORE OOTS :smalltongue:

[petersohn]

Likewise, I don't believe purchasers are buying OotS books because they want to read the comic - they can easily do that online. They're buying it because they like having a book-format product, so I'm fairly certain that a for-convenience product sold in iTunes will not be competing in the same sphere.
I agree with that. Most importantly: people who buy the books do that to support Rich, not simply to read some bonus material. Even if there would be some pirated versions, that would be minimal.

Publishing e-books may decrease the amount of printed books published, increasing the printing cost, but I'm sure that it would greatly increase the overall number of books sold, especially outside the US. Or, Rich could leave out some of the bonus materials from the e-books, so some may still buy the printed version instead.

Still, if Rich doesn't want to publish e-books, he won't.

[Lissou]

People who buy the compilation books probably do it mostly to have a physical book and support the Giant.

People who buy the prequels, though... Not so much. I mean, lots of people buy ONLY the prequels, which would make no sense for someone as library-obsessed as I am (I "need" to have all the books, all the same format and publisher, etc. Only having bonus books and not the main ones would be like... eating ice-cream topping without ice-cream).
So I assume a fair bit of these doesn't care very much about the "physical book" aspect of it and would go for an electronic version if the choice was given to them. That would still support the giant and cost them less.

I think the reasoning was that if he did that, the number of people who would indeed buy the physical books wouldn't be high enough to justify printing them in the first place.
You know how it goes, the more books you print, the less it costs you. It's possible that it would make enough difference to add 5 or 10 dollars to the cost of a book. Which would reduce sales. Which would reduce the number of volumes printed. Which would make the cost higher. And so on, and so on.

So the Giant felt it was an either/or situation, and decided to go for physical books.
(That is, if I understood it all right).

The fact that scanning the books and sharing them online would be a lot more work than sharing an electronic file illegally was also raised at some point.

[Optimystik]

The fact that scanning the books and sharing them online would be a lot more work than sharing an electronic file illegally was also raised at some point.

The Giant wouldn't have to scan anything; he draws the comics digitally. (He's made statements about grabbing "his WACOM tablet" before.)

[Zombie Nixon]

The Giant wouldn't have to scan anything; he draws the comics digitally. (He's made statements about grabbing "his WACOM tablet" before.)

That was in reference to someone pirating the books, not the giant scanning them.

[Optimystik]

Ah, my mistake.

But if I may move away from the sensitive topic of piracy, I still think digital distribution would be a good move for the Giant. Right now, I see the largest barrier as being the limited availability of reputable services that provide it outside of the U.S.; thus, digital books won't really get around the issues surrounding shipping the physical product overseas.

But at the same time, I think it's easier for digital products to overcome those barriers than the physical books will. Eventually there will be Kindles, or some reputable equivalent, in Australia; but physically shipping a book to Australia won't get much faster in that intervening time. Similarly, it costs money to store unsold books in a warehouse somewhere, but digital volumes take up no space and never decay.

[rxmd]

That would probably violate the copywright too, rxmd.

How? I could also save the individual HTML pages as served up by the site (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html, with images, etc.), and view them with the browser on my mobile device. If anyone wants to sue me for copyright violation because of that, I'll take the lawsuit. I expect them to be laughed out of court.

[NerfTW]

I still think digital distribution would be a good move for the Giant.

Again, the issue is that PRINTING technology has to advance to the point where he can make a small run of physical books without sending the price per book into the stratosphere.

E-book technology can advance all it wants to the point where it's instantly downloadable into your brain, and it still doesn't solve the issue that the Giant wants print books available, and the number of people who would rather purchase an electronic version of the book means that the quantity of print books would be too small to make them feasible. It's not just people outside the U.S. that want electronic versions. Lots of people in the U.S. want them too.

If he wanted to do an electronic version, it would be a simple as combining them and distributing a PDF file.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Hi, my mum is a key player in the Canadian publishing industry, and all the publishing industry is thinking of right now is how to easiest convert to E-books. Really. The focus of all the book-makers is how to improve upon E-books. My mum says that some of the first publications to switch to E-books will be newspapers, magazines, and other subscription papers. In light of this, it seems E-books are inevitable, at least from the perspective of the publishers.

[Roxlimn]

Gwyn chan'r Gwyll:

That makes perfect sense. Laptops, netbooks, and PDAs (especially iPhones and iTouches) did what the Kindle could not do - put a digital reader device into every person's hands nearly all the time.

With digital reader devices being as ubiquitous as they are, the advantages of ebooks become irresistible. There are already a huge amount of books available on iTunes, and there are comic formats specifically dedicated to various electronic devices, especially the iPhone.

NerfTW:

I confess that I don't understand the reasoning behind ebooks competing with printed book sales. People who like the comic generally have a PC and read it there. They already don't need a physical book to read the comic, and for free. In the event that they DON'T have a PC or other electronic device, the ebook would be unreadable anyway, so it still isn't a competitor.

In fact, anyone including you or me can save the pages from the comic or translate them into other formats, compile them, and have a readable ebook - so Giant is already providing an ebook, just not a very convenient one.

I am willing to pay him to provide for my convenience, even though we can all already read the comic for free.

Jaltum:

That's par for the course for a limited run collector's item - and an OotS printed comic certainly is.

Rich won't collate the ebook if he doesn't want to, he's quite free to do as he pleases. I'm simply communicating here my willingness to give him money. I hope he doesn't take that the wrong way.

I suppose he could give them out in 67 page collections at $1 apiece for $10 for the whole thing and I would still be interested. I don't know the exact business costs and logistics of it - if it's going to be profitable for him, then great. If not, I always have my saved pages.

[NerfTW]

People who like the comic generally have a PC and read it there. They already don't need a physical book to read the comic, and for free.


*HEADDESK*

For the final time, for those not paying attention to this thread:
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PRINT ONLY PREQUEL BOOKS. NOT THE COMPILATIONS, WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY ONLINE.

[Optimystik]

*HEADDESK*

For the final time, for those not paying attention to this thread:
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PRINT ONLY PREQUEL BOOKS. NOT THE COMPILATIONS, WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY ONLINE.

*timid voice*
Also, the bonus strips.
*hides*

[NerfTW]

*timid voice*
Also, the bonus strips.
*hides*

AND THE BONUS STRIPS. :smallbiggrin:

[DBJack]

I've seen on e-bay some European gaming stores that keep their wares online selling the prequel books. The shipping was high, but I think that's because I'm stateside. It might be worth a look, since the OP was concerned about shipping prices.

I would prefer to buy the book versions because I like having something in my hands, but I like the appeal of having the prequel books online. I do wonder how the sales of, say, OtOotPCs are, because after they have mostly died out, putting them for sale online as e-books would probably revive sales, as people unable to pay the shipping fees would then have the chance to avoid them.

This reminds me of the time I was trying to get some kind of plant for my aquarium. I had some shrimp that apparently were dying out because they needed a plant, but I had to have it shipped from South America or something if I wanted it. The plant cost $3, but shipping was almost $30. My shrimp lasted a while without the plant, but that was still an interesting example of e-commerce. :smallfrown:


And Optimystik, I work at an ice cream restaurant, and I do tend to eat the toppings without the ice cream :smallwink:

[Optimystik]

And Optimystik, I work at an ice cream restaurant, and I do tend to eat the toppings without the ice cream :smallwink:

Thanks for sharing, but that was Lissou's analogy, not mine. :smalltongue:

[DBJack]

:smallredface: