Two-Weapon Fighter

[Blue Warlock]

One of my friends is playing a Fighter using the TWF chain and a quarterstaff is his chosen weapon. Obviously, this build is weak. As a result I started looking around for prestige classes to help him out... but I can't really find anything that would help. He also has his heart set on the quarterstaff, so that won't change. We just leveled up to 6th level and are looking for something for him to prestige into to make him just a little less weak.

TL;DR: Looking for a prestige class for a TWF Fighter using a quarterstaff.

[ColdSepp]

I am unaware of any such PrC.

[erikun]

While I don't know about PrC, there is an exotic weapon called the Longstaff in Complete Adventurer. It prevents you from being flanked when fighting defensively, total defense, or using Combat Expertise at +2 or higher. It also counts as a Quarterstaff for feats that specify a specific weapon. Same stats as the standard Quarterstaff.

[Blue Warlock]

Ah... I should have been less specific. I didn't mean a PrC that was specifically about using a quarterstaff with TWF. Just one that doesn't suck because of it. For instance Dervish is good for TWFers that use slashing weapons. I'm just looking for something better than the standard fighter for the character at the very least.

[Tehnar]

As far as I am aware there are none.

However all is not lost. There are some benefits to using a quarterstaff.

1) You have a quick staff style feat from CW. when using combat expertise you get a +2 bonus to AC.

2) Quarterstaff's could be constructed from either from wood or metal, thus giving you options to get around damage reductions.

3) Wooden quarterstaff's are legitimate targets of the spells Shillelagh (PHB), Spikes (SC) and Brambles(SC). Which are pretty neat spells for boosting the damage of wooden weapons. So a multiclass into a cleric or druid might not be a bad idea.

4) A double weapon is slightly better for TWF then two weapons. When you are denied full attacks for any reason, you can wield it as a two handed weapon, thus gaining a bonus to damage via STR and power attack. And the best part about a quarterstaff is that you don't need to spend a feat on it for proficiency.

[overduegalaxy]

There's one in Dragon magazine somewhere called the Monkey Shen. I think it's more built towards monks, but a fighter may gain some benefit from it.

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea what issue it's from.

[snoopy13a]

How about taking a few levels in the fighter sneak attack variant? You'd pick up sneak attack without having to sacrifice on BAB. It would slow down your bonus feat progression though.

[Mando Knight]

Fighter? Sounds more like a job for a Ranger to me... since they get the Power of Hatred, (some) spells, and the TWF chain for free... and extra Skills. (with the drawback that they've got d8 hit dice)

[Eldariel]

How's Tome of Battle for a source? It'd be a wash to pull off with that book. Otherwise, there are no directly functional PrCs and really, the ones that do exist (e.g. Tempest [CAdv]) suck.

Really, the combination is best off as a Ranger/Scout heading into Swift Hunter, or Rogue/Swashbuckler heading into Daring Outlaw to get some precision damage into the deal. Otherwise, there's little better than Fighter/Barbarian picking up Melee Weapon Mastery-line, Extra Rage and possibly using Ferocity [Cityscape Web Enhancement] or Whirling Frenzy [Unearthed Arcana] Rage-variants, depending on the exact make-up of the character (whether it's Dex- or Str-based, how many bonuses to attack does it have, etc.).

[Keld Denar]

Not a PrC, but Warblade from ToB: Bo9S would be ideal for what hes attempting. Warblade, or maybe Swordsage. Getting a bunch of boosts and additional attacks and whatnot would be perfect for bringing up his viability.

Edit: Grrr, those sneaky Finnish ninjas.....

[Pramxnim]

You forgot to mention the spell Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon p115). If cast by a high level Wiz/Sor, it increases the damage on your Quarterstaff to that of a weapon up to 5 sizes larger (i.e. Colossal), or up from 1d6 to 4d6. Not much, but it's nifty to have.

See if you can't get your DM to allow him to get permanency on it... as a bonus DM fiat thing to help out your friend, who seems to prefer fluff over mechanics.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

EWP: Longstaff in Complete Adventurer, then go into Exotic Weapon Master from CW. Get Flurry of Strikes and maybe Trip Attack, but I'd just stop there and take more Fighter levels to eventually get Weapon Supremacy from PH2. Another option would be to take Kensai from Complete Warrior, which would allow him to turn his staff into a powerful magical item for only a fairly insignificant XP cost, as well as gaining other abilities.

There's the Quick Staff weapon style feat in Complete Warrior, which improves your AC bonus when fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise. It goes well with the Longstaff since you'll also benefit from its immunity to flanking. He could get also (Improved, Greater) Two Weapon Defense and it would be reasonable to rule that when using Combat Expertise for at least -2 its bonus would be doubled as though he were fighting defensively, though he may be better off with an animated shield.

What feats does he already have, what are his ability scores, what's his race and alignment, and what books are available? Depending on that, this could turn out to be a fairly decent character. Here's where I'd go with this character if focused purely on combat:

Human or Half-Orc, Fighter 20, using the (adapted) Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)
Skills: Max ranks in Intimidate, Never Outnumbered skill trick from Complete Scoundrel
1. TWF, Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff, EWP: Longstaff (if Human)
2. Combat Expertise
3. Dodge, Skill Focus: Intimidate (ZS)
4. Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff
5. Extended Intimidation (ZS)
6. ITWF, Imperious Command (Drow of the Underdark)
8. Melee Weapon Mastery: Bludgeoning
9. Quick Staff, Swift Demoralization (ZS)
10. Greater Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
12. GTWF, Greater Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff
14. Crushing Strike
15. Combat Reflexes*
16. Improved Trip*
18. Weapon Supremacy: Quarterstaff/Longstaff, Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown)*
20. Defensive Sweep
*All of your feats after level 14 except Weapon Supremacy are open to whatever you want to take.
If Half-Orc, visit the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to gain the feat Menacing Demeanor. If you started higher than 1st level, just pay 3,000 gp and say you've already done that to gain the feat on character creation.

At level 6 he gets Imperious Command, which makes it so anyone he demoralizes with the Intimidate skill instead cowers for one round, and is shaken on the following round. With Never Outnumbered he can hit a whole group of opponents at once with this once per encounter. At level 9 he can demoralize as a swift action rather than a standard action, so he can use it every round while full attacking. He can spam it on one opponent every round to keep them cowering the whole fight, and remember they'll be shaken on the next check and be at a -2 penalty. You could also include the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon, in which case I'd also get Ability Focus for it, but those can't be taken with Fighter bonus feats. Maybe take them at 9 and 12, and move Quick Staff and Greater Specialization to maybe 15 and 16.

[ericgrau]

3) Wooden quarterstaff's are legitimate targets of the spells Shillelagh (PHB), Spikes (SC) and Brambles(SC). Which are pretty neat spells for boosting the damage of wooden weapons. So a multiclass into a cleric or druid might not be a bad idea.

4) A double weapon is slightly better for TWF then two weapons. When you are denied full attacks for any reason, you can wield it as a two handed weapon, thus gaining a bonus to damage via STR and power attack. And the best part about a quarterstaff is that you don't need to spend a feat on it for proficiency.

Just buy shillelagh oil or ___ oil for cheap. Spell level x caster level (usually min required to cast the spell) x 50 gp.

Point #4 is a good point. Single attack THF, full TWF and his build is actually not so weak.

At higher levels look for bonus damage. Weapon specialization is an easy one that gives damage without costing precious AB like power attack (which doesn't affect off-hand attacks anyway). Putting spell storing on a double weapon would be devastating. He can use any spell with a "target:" line. When he can afford it at level 8 - using inflict serious wounds for example - he'll be averaging 41 extra damage in his first full attack. With a so-so strength and weapon spec he'll be averaging at least 8.5 per hit and he'll have 4 attacks; more with shillelagh or a high strength. With his AB he'll probably hit on 2-3 of those 4, giving him about 60 damage in his first full attack.

Disarming can work too; if the target sucks at it you don't even need the feat. You can disarm worn objects fairly easily, for example, and having lots of attacks means you can use your low AB attacks for this easy stuff and still do damage with the rest.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Tempest PrC from Complete Adventurer. Also, snoopy's suggestion about the variant fighter is a good one. Or get your DM to let him restat his fighter as a warblade.

Good luck.

[Keld Denar]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Tempest PrC from Complete Adventurer.

Thats cause....Tempest is terribad. Seriously. Its supposed to make you better at TWFing, and it actually makes you worse. It tries to make you a mobile TWF strikers, but instead it makes you a lame neutered puppy. I requires Dodge/Mobility/SpringAttack, and while it makes it a little better, its still can't compare to the advantage of making a full attack. And anyway, unless you have a crazy movement speed (which you probably won't), you are just gonna get charged, or ignored.

Really...that class is terribad. More Fighter levels would make a more effective character than Tempest, and thats sad.

[Gaiyamato]

There is alos Shou disciple. Dip into one level of Monk and then take all 5 levels of Shou disciple.

Exotic Weapons Master may be slightly better though.
Long staff is a definate must.

Biff had some great ideas there.

[Aneantir]

Eilservs School [Style].

Found in Drow of the Underdark, instead of weilding a quarterstaff you use a magical staff, and, with UMD, you cast spells out of it when you hit with both ends in one round... Well, if nothing else, I think it's kinda cool.

[Hawriel]

Mongoose publishing in their quintessiential Ranger book had a 7 level PRC that specialized in staff fighting.

[Gaiyamato]

Mongoose publishing in their quintessiential Ranger book had a 7 level PRC that specialized in staff fighting.

ooh.. the only one of those books I don't have too... o_O

[Blue Warlock]

I think going longstaff and then going into Exotic Weapon Master is a pretty good shot. He has already enchanted his quarterstaff quite a bit (this is an ongoing campaign) but the DM might let him add a few extra feet to the middle to make it a longstaff, and because he is a warforged he would essentially qualify for the class after taking Exotic Weapon Prof.

Thanks for the help guys, but if anyone can think of anything else that would work well or an obscure prestige class that would fit better don't feel afraid to post it.

[evil-frosty]

I seem to remember a PRC called Staffmaster in the homebrew section of the forum that wasnt horrible.

[Lycanthromancer]

A dip into psychic warrior would grant him additional bonus feats, as well as the expansion and psionic lion's charge powers (eventually). Then PrC into the slayer PrC (both from the SRD and the XPH).

Though he'd be better off retraining as a psychic warrior from level 1, really.

(Also: war mind.)

[#Raptor]

You forgot to mention the spell Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon p115). If cast by a high level Wiz/Sor, it increases the damage on your Quarterstaff to that of a weapon up to 5 sizes larger (i.e. Colossal), or up from 1d6 to 4d6. Not much, but it's nifty to have.

See if you can't get your DM to allow him to get permanency on it... as a bonus DM fiat thing to help out your friend, who seems to prefer fluff over mechanics.

No need for permanency, its a hour/lvl buff and level 3.
So at level 8 a extended Greater Mighty Wallop lasts 16 hours. 16 hours + 8 hours rest = 24 hours. Cast it in the morning and it'll last all day long.
Even if your arcane caster doesn't have Extend, a lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend only costs 3k gold.

So in other words: Greater Mighty Wallop FTW.

[Frog Dragon]

I seem to remember a PRC called Staffmaster in the homebrew section of the forum that wasnt horrible.
I suspect you're speaking about the PRC I did a while back. There's a link in my homebrewer's extended signature

[Blackfang108]

Ah... I should have been less specific. I didn't mean a PrC that was specifically about using a quarterstaff with TWF. Just one that doesn't suck because of it. For instance Dervish is good for TWFers that use slashing weapons. I'm just looking for something better than the standard fighter for the character at the very least.

Well, there is Tempest(CAdv)...

5 levels, +3 AC while dual-wielding.
Negates the TWF penalty at level 4.

EDIT: I'm unaware as to how tempest keeps you from getting your full attacks. Granted, the prerequs suck.

[Telonius]

Some other feat possibilities:
Brutal Strike, PHB2
Crushing Strike, PHB2
Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning), PHB2
Deafening Blow, DR 345, p.91

[Keld Denar]

EDIT: I'm unaware as to how tempest keeps you from getting your full attacks. Granted, the prerequs suck.

Then let me enlighten you. Its a class with an emphasis on mobility while TWFing. It requires Dodge/Mobility/SpringAttack, which do NOT mesh with TWFing since Spring Attack normally only gives you 1 attack. Also, being feat heavy, it nearly requires Fighter levels to qualify, which detract from TWFings primary boon, to get bonus damage. It has 4 crappy class features in 5 levels which amount to +2 to hit, +3 to AC, a couple of crappy bonus feats that only apply if you are duel wielding mismatched weapons (which is generally a poor idea), and the ability to make a 2nd attack on a Spring Attack, which...is crappy, considering its your offhand attack. Oh, and that ability doesn't come until ECL 11 at the earliest.

Oh, and the class also doesn't further any abilities which grant bonus damage on attacks that actually make TWF viable.

So, in summery, the class requires crappy prereqs, which are crappy. To be able to qualify for those crappy prereqs in a timely fasion, you are prevented from taking other classes which help make TWFing less crappy. Once you get into the PrC, the abilities you get are underwhelmingly crappy compared to what you'd get from nearly any other PrC or even most base classes, and don't add anything to only thing that makes TWF viable (bonus damage). And the whole premise of the PrC encourages you to play crappily (by Spring Attacking). Its like asking your stud horse to geld itself. Especially when that stud horse is already a runt. In the same way, you are asking a rather unoptimized concept to further invalidate itself, rather than strengthen itself.

TWF can be done right, and can be done VERY wrong. This way leads to VERY VERY VERY wrong.

Feel enlightened?

[Telonius]

Combined with something that will get you bonus damage - Dervish, for example - it's not as bad. But that's specifically for slashing weapons.

[Keld Denar]

Combined with something that will get you bonus damage - Dervish, for example - it's not as bad. But that's specifically for slashing weapons.

You'd still be better off taking levels in Warblade, or levels in just about any other full BAB class. Especially if you are a Dervish, since you will never be TWF Spring Attacking because you'll be Dervish Dancing. The only reason to take Tempest after Dervish is because you already meet all the prereqs, not because you like the class features, and thats not a good enough reason.

[Wings of Peace]

If he's an elf convince him to be a Revenant Blade. At 5th level they can use their Valenar Double Scimitars as two weapons (Meaning TWF feat fun) and still power attack. That is a BIG boon to damage potential especially if he turns it into a charge build.

[9mm]

the quarterstaff/long staff user is a stange way to go but it has things going for it:

1) the weapon is cheaply made "heavy" (magic of feyrun) which ups the damage a die, simply by being made of steel, but requires EWP (which you should be taking anyway for longstaff, just changes the entry from longstaff to heavy longstaff.)
2) twf/thf flexibility.
3) can be give you an out through a good use of the Spellstaff spell.
4) it's a monk weapon so flurry.
5) Setting sun's (one of my favorite ToB schools) preferred weapons include the quarterstaff.
6) crushing Strike/brutal strike/pulverize foe usable.
7) shilleligh/spikes/Whallop able.
8) it is probably the easiest weapon to improvise up in a pinch, just get a long, reletivly straight stick.
9) the last advantage depends on your GM, but since it's long piece of metal/wood, some DM''s lift the "enchanting one end at a time" restriction. which means it's easier to to get it completely up to magical par with WBL.

Thing you won't be: An ubercharger damage dealling thicky. your going to out last your oppenent with a good defence and a rain of blows over time. the trick to mastering the staff is proper feat selection, and balancing when to unleash a full barrage and when to sit back on defense. there really isn't a PrC centered around the weapon.

[riddles]

i'd retrain - monk 2, into psychic warrior with tashalatora (that's twice today i've posted about that feat. it rocks!), then into psychic weapon master or exotic weapon master depending on whether you use a quarterstaff or longstaff.

exotic weapon master would be good, but i'm not sure if ewm flurry stacks with monk flurry. trip attack, uncanny blow and double weapon defence are good stunts.

damage is an issue, but 10 levels of a full BAB class plus psychic warrior buffs will let you power attack. you don't need to PA for that much when you have full flurry.

[EDIT] frog dragon's staffmaster PRC is also awesome, but it's homebrew and needs to be run by your dm

[Keld Denar]

exotic weapon master would be good, but i'm not sure if ewm flurry stacks with monk flurry.

It would. One is Flurry of Strikes, the other is Flurry of Blows. Different name, different ability. Penalties are cumulative though, as they would be with TWFing.

Do note that you'd need a Long Staff to qualify for EWM, since a normal quarterstaff is not an exotic weapon.

[Person_Man]

ECL and books allowed?

Ideas:

1) Disciple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2): Benefits from having a lot of attacks, and Fear is ridiculously powerful at low levels. However, this build loses most or all of it's usefulness after ECL 11ish.

2) I *heart* Alternate Class Features (forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-906113): Goliath (LA +1) Fighter 11 is quite rocking. Use Dungeoncrasher + Shock Trooper + Knockback (Races of Stone), Zhentarim Soldier + Imperious Command (summarized by Biffoniacus), and Resolute. Find a way to get Pounce (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385) (usually via a magic item). And you're set.

3) Kensai: Cheap enchantment of both sides of your staff. Potent higher level abilities. But you really have nowhere to go above ECL 15ish.