Warlock time (3.5)

[thorgrim29]

Hello everyone. Inspired by SCS's campaign account, I've decided that my next character will be a warlock. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to play one (other then abuse the unlimited flashlight). So I'm asking for help. Note that I'm not asking for a convoluted and optimized to the gills build, just a bit of a warlocks for dummies type help.

Thanks.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The two typical approaches are to abuse the hades out of UMD and obtain semi-decent dps through the Hellfire PrC. What flavor are you looking for aside from flight?

[Keld Denar]

Warlocks play like an Archer with a few extra tools. You are rather squishy, so keep away from most things that are bad. Also, you don't get many Invocations, so choose them wisely. There should be a thread somewhere that ranks the better ones like Baleful Utterance, from the absolute crap ones like Hideous Blow.

Also, do you want to go straight Warlock? If so, you'll be pretty good. Otherwise, theres a lot of fun you can have with the Eldritch Disciple PrC in CMage and the Eldritch Theurge PrC, also in CMage, IIRC. Both splice Warlock with Cleric and Wizard respectively, and while not as strong as a straight Cleric/Wizard, are stronger than straight Warlocks. There are also a lot of Glaivelock builds which use Eldritch Glaive (in Dragon Magic) to whack someone real bad with a 15' long Eldritch beatstick. This is also very fun.

So, yea....where do you want to take your Warlock?

[SilverClawShift]

It's actually pretty straight forward. Pump DEX to help you aim your blast, CHA to make your blast and invocations harder to resist by saving throws or spell resistance. You don't actually NEED a ton of CHA like a sorcerer would, it can just come in handy, especially since Use Magic Device is a class skill.

You're going to have an unlimited shot magical blast, damage reduction against cold iron, slight regeneration, and be geberally capable at using any magic items (like scrolls and wands) that you find. That's all by default, so how the class plays basically depends on what invocations you select. If you pick the invocations that let you shoot really far and dimension door yourself around, you'll be a great sniper. If you pick the one that lets you use your blast like a melee weapon, you'll be stabbing people in the face (with pure distilled magic). ect, ect, they're pretty hard to screw up.
Grab some fun looking invocations and start killing those who oppose you.


Warlocks play like an Archer with a few extra tools. You are rather squishy, so keep away from most things that are bad.

You could actually reasonably make yourself a lot less squishy. A warlock can wear light armor with no problem, so pick up an enchanted chain shirt and try to get your DEX to 18 or thereabouts.
D6 hit die isn't great, but you don't NEED many stats, you could reasonably get your CON up high too. And bear in mind that you'll have growing damage reduction against cold iron, which is like a few free hitpoints every round in melee.

And at higher level, brief periods of fast healing.

Not that warlocks are TANKS, but they're not going to go flat if a troll glances at them sideways.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I like playing a Warlock as a debuffer. Focus on Dex and Cha, get feats like Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast and Fey Power (CM), and spam Eldritch Chain/Cone with Blinding Blast or Noxious Blast every round. Get feats like Dreadful Wrath (PGtF) and Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) to keep opponents Shaken so they take a -2 on saves. Flyby Attack is also good once you get Fell Flight because you can stay around a corner and be out of line of effect to opponents' attacks when you're not shooting. Get flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) if you can, especially Noncombatant.

Try to go with something small size for your race. Look for creatures with a natural ability to fly and other abilities that augment your natural strengths, such as Pixie and especially Half-Fey (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Gnome Half-Fey with the feat Magic in the Blood (PGtF) is probably one of the best races to use, especially considering you don't need to waste an invocation on Charm to dip Mindbender 1. You could even convince your DM to let you take Fey Power and other feats from that chain without taking Fey Heritage, since you'd already have that creature type. With Fey Power you can go Warlock 4/ Mindbender 1/ Warlock+, and be sure to get the feat Mindsight from Lords of Madness (page 126) as early as possible.

I'm not a big fan of Maximize Spell-Like Ability, but a more damaged focus build could make use of it. Quicken Spell-Like Ability is good to have, I'd probably spend every feat from level 12 and up on it. Keep in mind, you can select that for your other invocations as well as Eldritch Blast, and also on any useful racial spell-like abilities you may have. Item Creation feats are also decent to get, I'd probably stick to Craft Wondrous Item and maybe Craft Wand, and if there's a Wizard in the party you can work together to make scrolls of whatever spells you can fake with Imbue Item.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My two cents:

There's several ways you can go, it is really all up to you.

1) Blastalock. This is the guy who has a blast for every flavor of the week, with a wide variety of ways to alter it's shape. However, other than Fell Flight, that's about all he can do. Consider all the Nerd Rage that Evokers get... yea, this is the Evoker of the Warlock.

1a) Hellfire Warlock. As above, but goes Hellfire Warlock, dips a level of Binder for Naberous, then takes some other PrC which advances class abilities to cheeze out damage output.

1b) Glaivelock. Eldritch Glaive is a Lesser Invocation which lets you turn your blast into a Glaive, which has reach, and deals EB damage on a touch attack, with iterative attacks. Probably the highest damage output lock around, particularly when augmented with Hellfire cheeze.

2) Battlefield Control. He's surprisingly good in this role. Chilling Tentacles is an extremely nasty battlefield control. Miasmic Cloud is another good one that is a Least invocation. You can also abuse Eldritch Chain when combo with Bewitching/Repelling?Noxious/Beshadowed blast to bestow negative status effects on multiple targets. Chain + Utterdark = everyone take 2 negative levels every round until everyone falls over. Not the quickest way to end a fight, but you can do it all day long.

3) Mr. No. Warlock has some surprisingly good ways of not being hurt. Fell Flight + Walk Unseen are the two most obvious (stay out of reach and be invisible), but Beguiling Influence can make you a pretty potent Diplomancer to avoid fights, Dark One's Own Luck can be used to boost a poor save just like a Pally, and of course, Dark Discorporation is just plain fun.

[Tokiko Mima]

1b) Glaivelock. Eldritch Glaive is a Lesser Invocation which lets you turn your blast into a Glaive, which has reach, and deals EB damage on a touch attack, with iterative attacks. Probably the highest damage output lock around, particularly when augmented with Hellfire cheeze.

Eldritch Glaive is actually a Least Invocation, but it doesn't become beneficial until you have a BAB of +6 or more, so most warlocks won't take it initially. For campaigns starting at level 1, I usually advise Warlocks take Summon Swarm at first, then when that invocation becomes less useful switch to Eldritch Glaive.

Because of the way this spell works, most warlocks would be advised to cast Divine Power on themselves (usually via a wand) before combat. With a strong Dexterity focus and a way to bypass SR (Vitriolic Blast) this form of Warlock generally carves BBEG's up like a holiday turkey.

[Emong]

1a) Hellfire Warlock. As above, but goes Hellfire Warlock, dips a level of Binder for Naberous, then takes some other PrC which advances class abilities to cheeze out damage output.


Why bother with the level of binder when you can just take the Bind Vestige feat?

[ex cathedra]

Because Bind Vestige doesn't give you all of Naberius' abilities; most notably, fast healing for ability mods. Take Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest. Gives DR 1 for ability damage, but doesn't render you immune. Consult your DM first, of course.

[subject42]

It's somewhat sub-optimal, but one of my party members is currently playing a halfling warlock/rogue.

The combination of Eldritch Spear, the Able Sniper Feat, and a few ranks in hide can be pretty fun at low levels.

[Tokiko Mima]

Why bother with the level of binder when you can just take the Bind Vestige feat?

Because Bind Vestige Feat is very specific about what powers you get when you use it. With no Binder levels and just the feat, all you get for binding Naberius is what's on the table: Naberius's skill bonuses.

Personally, I say bite the bullet and accept that your Constitution will be damaged. Buy a Rod of Bodily Restoration for 3,100gp and that will cover you for 12 uses of Hellfire a day and no one can argue that you're cheating the powers that grant Hellfire.

[Mando Knight]

3) Mr. No. Warlock has some surprisingly good ways of not being hurt. Fell Flight + Walk Unseen are the two most obvious (stay out of reach and be invisible), but Beguiling Influence can make you a pretty potent Diplomancer to avoid fights, Dark One's Own Luck can be used to boost a poor save just like a Pally, and of course, Dark Discorporation is just plain fun.

That's Doctor No. :smalltongue:

[Tokiko Mima]

I should also mention what I consider the ultimate form of warlock: The Pixie Warlock. Pixies already have native 60' good maneuverability flight and greater invisibility at will as a free action, which are better versions of abilities warlocks are all ready famous for. They possess SR greater than a drows (CL + 15,) an astounding +8 DEX mod and surprising +6 CHA mod, a host of 1/day SLA's that give you a bag of tricks to deploy when your standard tactics fail, and the errata that says that they don't get polymorph 1/day is very, very hard to find. The downside is the +4 LA of course, but in this specific case I'm of the opinion that it's very much worth it especially since you aren't a full caster.

[Keld Denar]

I've actually seen a few interesting Glaivelock Suel Arcanamach builds.

Warlock4/Hexblade3 gets you into SA, and then SA4/AbjChamp5/Spellsword1/Hellfire3

Gets you most of the good Warlock starting stuff, the Hexblade stuff, full SA casting which is rather fun, and finishes with Hellfire Warlock for a bit of a boost. Finishes 17/20 BAB, which is nice for PAing, and Suel buffs from Transmutation help up damage as well, to make up for the lowish Warlock damage.

Not OP, but well balanced and probably very very fun to play. Or maybe I just love Suel Arcanamach too much...

[Fishy]

Stupid warlock trick: Take a two level dip into Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b), pretend to be an artificer. Hilarity ensues.

[Tokiko Mima]

Consider a Rod of Eldritch Power for all the Blast Shape/Eldritch Essense invocations that might be useful in a pinch, but you won't be using all the time. Eldritch Spear, Eldritch Doom, Eldritch Cone/Line are all great Blast Shapes, but you likely won't use them more than a few times a day. Repelling Blast is the same way. So put them in Rod form and draw them out when you need 'em.

There are some great Warlock items in Complete Mage. The Rod of Magical Precision grants you all the benefits of the Precise Shot feat, and lets you ignore concealment 3/day. Horizon Goggles extend the range of your Eldritch Blast by +50%, so with Eldritch Spear you could reach 375' or have a normal range of 90'. From the MIC don't forget Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting if you plan on fighting anything incorporeal, as they are one of the few items that allow spellcasters the same ability as a ghost touch weapon.

Try to avoid taking some of the "trap" feats and invocations: Point Blank Shot seems nice, but there are much better feats out there, and extra attack bonus is rarely necessary for a warlock. Hideous Blow looks decent, until you realize that it limits you to a single attack per round, which you still requires you to make a Concentration check, leaves you subject to disruption, Attacks of Opportunity, adds armor into the attack roll as well as appending a roll vs. SR. All this is just to add your weapon damage to an Eldritch Blast.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Try to avoid taking some of the "trap" feats and invocations: Point Blank Shot seems nice, but there are much better feats out there, and extra attack bonus is rarely necessary for a warlock. Hideous Blow looks decent, until you realize that it limits you to a single attack per round, which you still requires you to make a Concentration check, leaves you subject to disruption, Attacks of Opportunity, adds armor into the attack roll as well as appending a roll vs. SR. All this is just to add your weapon damage to an Eldritch Blast.

I will say that Point-Blank Shot is merely a prerequsite for Precise Shot, which is extremely handy for blasting into combat. Later on, you can even pick up Improved Precise Shot for more fun. If you're gonna be a Blastalock, then at least be one that doesn't have to worry about Friendly Fire in melee, and can actually hit what he aims at.

The Pixie-Lock sucks. Sure, at first it looks cool, until you realize that you can do the same thing with a Human Warlock and the right invocations. Retrobutive Invisibility is at-will greater invisibility plus screws over anyone who tries to get rid of it. Strictly better, and doesn't gimp you with a +4 LA.

[Tokiko Mima]

I will say that Point-Blank Shot is merely a prerequsite for Precise Shot, which is extremely handy for blasting into combat. Later on, you can even pick up Improved Precise Shot for more fun. If you're gonna be a Blastalock, then at least be one that doesn't have to worry about Friendly Fire in melee, and can actually hit what he aims at.

The Pixie-Lock sucks. Sure, at first it looks cool, until you realize that you can do the same thing with a Human Warlock and the right invocations. Retrobutive Invisibility is at-will greater invisibility plus screws over anyone who tries to get rid of it. Strictly better, and doesn't gimp you with a +4 LA.

Retributive Invisibility is actually a Dark Invocation, so you don't get access to it until level 15+, and usually longer because most warlocks grab Utterdark Blast as soon as it becomes available. When you finally do take it you'll be at a level where everyone and his uncle has true seeing, see invisibility, Blindsight or what have you, not at ECL 5 when those things are dramatically less common. Retributive Invisibility is also a Standard action to recast (not a free action like Pixie invisibility) so dispelling it does in effect consume an action from the warlock.

You still get nothing that replaces native 60' flight, which is a real advantage for a class that gets dispel magic at will, or the useful SLA's, or the +8 DEX/+6 CHA modifiers, or the CL + 15 spell resistance.

I would usually say a three Feat investment for benefits you can get from a single magic item (granted, you only get the Improved Precise Shot effect 3/day, but how often will you be firing in at something concealed and in melee?) would be a bit of a waste. And if you can't make touch attack rolls I don't know what to tell ya. They get dramatically easier as you level and fight stronger, larger monsters.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Retributive Invisibility is actually a Dark Invocation, so you don't get access to it until level 15+, and usually longer because most warlocks grab Utterdark Blast as soon as it becomes available. Retributive Blast is also a Standard action to cast, not a free action like Pixie invisibility. And you won't even get THAT with your +4 LA, so you not only get Utterdark Blast, you ALSO get your invis-at-will. AND another Dark Invocation of choice. So you'll not only get Utterdark Blast sooner, but you'll also have more Dark invocations, AND you can always use Walk Unseen until you upgrade to Retrobutive Invisibility


You still get nothing that replaces native 60' flight, which is a real advantage for a class that gets dispel magic at will, or the useful SLA's, or the +8 DEX/+6 CHA modifiers, or the CL + 15 spell resistance. It's called Fell Flight, which every Lock worthy of the title gets. Useful SLA's aren't so useful to a lock, and spell resistance isn't worth bothering with unless you are consistantly attacked by casters massively lower level than you. Remember, you've got the +4 LA working against you. So that CL +15? More like CL + 11.


I would usually say a three Feat investment for benefits you can get from a single magic item (granted, you only get the Improved Precise Shot effect 3/day, but how often will you be firing in at something concealed and in melee?) would be a bit of a waste. And if you can't make touch attack rolls I don't know what to tell ya. They get dramatically easier as you level and fight stronger, larger monsters.

Depends on what you end up fighting. However, I will say that if you start breaking the game with RTA's, your GM is going to make it more difficult to use those RTA's, which means needing those three feats because suddenly every mob is going to 'just happen' to find ways to be in melee with someone or otherwise find some form of concealment/cover.

[Tokiko Mima]

And you won't even get THAT with your +4 LA, so you not only get Utterdark Blast, you ALSO get your invis-at-will. AND another Dark Invocation of choice. So you'll not only get Utterdark Blast sooner, but you'll also have more Dark invocations, AND you can always use Walk Unseen until you upgrade to Retrobutive Invisibility

A Pixie would not need Retributive Invisibility. Level 17 Warlock would give them 2 Dark Invocations. A Human Warlock 20 would get 4, but then have to spend one on Retributive Invisibility, an invocation the Pixie has had an equivalent for since level 1, so that means the Pixie is only down a single Dark Invocation total. Not to mention that level 16+ tends to be territory very few games go into anyway. If it's an issue, at epic levels it only matter if the warlock got a single Dark Invocation and they'll be able to access Epic warlock Feats.

Level Adjustment is also something that can be bought off given enough time. I'm not aware of any rules that allow a human warlock to access a dark invocation at the levels a Pixie does.

Walk Unseen is a great utility to have, but having to spend a Standard action to renew it in combat only to have it drop as soon as you attack means that it's more reserved for hiding an opening volley and for sneaking around between combats, than pure fighting. It's not a good substitute from the fighting abilities greater invisibility lends you.

A Pixie will be blasting unseen from level 1, gaining all the advantages that firing from invisibility brings (like forcing their foes to lose their dexterity bonus, be Flatfooted, and greatly increases the difficulty for a foe attempting reprisal) every single round. It will take a human more than 10 levels to catch up on this front, during which time they have two lesser invocations fewer than the Pixie who does not have to take Fell Flight or Walk Unseen.

So all the human warlock gets for his trouble is faster higher level invocation access, 4 levels of HP and saves, a bonus feat, and one more invocation total than the pixie at certain levels. The pixie enjoys immediate access to a slightly improved version of a Dark Invocation, a strictly better version of a lesser invocation, and all those assorted Pixie bonuses and modifiers.


It's called Fell Flight, which every Lock worthy of the title gets. Useful SLA's aren't so useful to a lock, and spell resistance isn't worth bothering with unless you are consistantly attacked by casters massively lower level than you. Remember, you've got the +4 LA working against you. So that CL +15? More like CL + 11.

Yes, I remember. That's the one that's ~30' and subject to being dispelled by a wizard smart enough to memorize greater dispel magic, right? Native 60' flight is strictly better than dispellable 30' flight, and it frees up another invocation for the pixie. It also gives them full legal access to Flyby Attack, which some warlocks take for granted as being something an SLA can grant if it's 24 hours in duration.

ECL + 11 is still better than Drow spell resistance. It's not perfect protection, but it's enough to require a full spellcaster to consider a switch to No SR spells, and the Pixie tends to have a very decent touch AC that makes the choice a difficult one.

My philosophy is never complete immunity, just make sure there is no easy way to be attacked. If I were a spellcaster fighting a human warlock, I could use almost any spell and expect no special resistance at all, only decent saving throws. Against a Pixie, I can choose between a 50% chance of a lost spell to SR, or taking chances with a touch AC that's almost always 20 or better (I usually try for at least AC 30 to really screw casters).


Depends on what you end up fighting. However, I will say that if you start breaking the game with RTA's, your GM is going to make it more difficult to use those RTA's, which means needing those three feats because suddenly every mob is going to 'just happen' to find ways to be in melee with someone or otherwise find some form of concealment/cover.

I didn't specially outfit my last Pixie warlock for attack bonus, beyond viewing Dexterity as my Primary attribute. By the time I hit level 10, I was only missing on a roll of 1 on virtually every attack. Even with a -4 penalty I don't think that RTA's are a big enough deal to blow three Feats on, especially when it's easy to replace the important parts of those Feats with a single magic item.

I did use a wand of Divine Power extensively, and that might have made up for it as well. Also a factor is the huge bonus that being invisible while firing gives you. I won't argue that RTA's are a bit of a broken system. I know they're too easy to make in general. I just don't think the -4 is much of a factor for warlocks, and especially pixie ones. and again, you get the important part of these three feats from a single magic item.

[only1doug]

I've been contemplating a Pixie-lock when my current character inevitably dies for a while now...


It's called Fell Flight, which every Lock worthy of the title gets. Useful SLA's aren't so useful to a lock, and spell resistance isn't worth bothering with unless you are consistantly attacked by casters massively lower level than you. Remember, you've got the +4 LA working against you. So that CL +15? More like CL + 11.


incorrect, Pixie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie) get SR to class level +15.

[Tokiko Mima]

What he's saying is that because of +4 LA, that Pixie SR of (CL + 15) really means (ECL + 11), just like a Drow (+2 LA) SR is (ECL + 8.) ECL factors in your level adjustment. :smallsmile:

[only1doug]

What he's saying is that because of +4 LA, that Pixie SR of (CL + 15) really means (ECL + 11), just like a Drow (+2 LA) SR is (ECL + 8.) ECL factors in your level adjustment. :smallsmile:

the specific wording in the SRD is

spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels.

but your GM may rule otherwise.

even 11+ ECL is still enough to cause a 50% failure rate from casters of equal level unless they have focused on spell penetration (either by feat, reducing their other options) or by gear (which will then become your party loot).

BBEG's may still suffer a 1/4 failure rate, minion wizards would be at 3/4 or worse.

I don't think thats a bad situation to be in.

Edit: It should also be noted that my GM has indicated that my typical characters tend to be more powerful than he'd prefer. Thats partly why I was considering Pixie-Lock, the 4 lost levels from LA should offset my optimisation choices a bit.

(I don't know why he considers a ECL 13 character with 12BAB, CL12, 4th level wizard spells, an attack that deals 4d8+7 at +18/13/8 or an alternate touch attack for 4d8 sonic once/round at +14 as overpowered, he only has 32 AC)

[Siosilvar]

the specific wording in the SRD is (quote)
but your GM may rule otherwise.

True, but the LA +4 reduces your class levels by 4 compared to your ECL.

[only1doug]

True, but the LA +4 reduces your class levels by 4 compared to your ECL.

yep, I see that, cognition failure earlier

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A Pixie would not need Retributive Invisibility. Level 17 Warlock would give them 2 Dark Invocations. A Human Warlock 20 would get 4, but then have to spend one on Retributive Invisibility, an invocation the Pixie has had an equivalent for since level 1, so that means the Pixie is only down a single Dark Invocation total. Not to mention that level 16+ tends to be territory very few games go into anyway. If it's an issue, at epic levels it only matter if the warlock got a single Dark Invocation and they'll be able to access Epic warlock Feats. How are you level 17 lock, pre epic, with LA +4? At ECL 20, you are Warlock 16. That's ONE Dark Invocation. As opposed to a Human's 3.

A Pixie at 1st level Warlock would also be a Human Warlock 5. That means he's got a 3d6 EB, as opposed to your 1d6, and has three invocations. You've got the edge on him as far as survivability with your invisibility and flight.

At the next level, he gets Flight. And it's 60', not 30'. Just like the spell. the following level, he gets Walk Unseen, and still does more damage with his EB.

Basically, if you want to front-load your character, at low levels, Pixie is powerful. However, as the game progresses, they get further and further behind.


Level Adjustment is also something that can be bought off given enough time. I'm not aware of any rules that allow a human warlock to access a dark invocation at the levels a Pixie does. Assuming your GM lets you, and even then, +4 can't be bought off very cheaply.


Walk Unseen is a great utility to have, but having to spend a Standard action to renew it in combat only to have it drop as soon as you attack means that it's more reserved for hiding an opening volley and for sneaking around between combats, than pure fighting. It's not a good substitute from the fighting abilities greater invisibility lends you. Which is why you switch it out when you get Dark Invocations. In the meantime, being always invisible means you start running into a lot of critters with the ability to find you (see invis, blindsense, blindsight...) because the GM is not going to let you ride on Easy Street (tm). Also, to what fighting abilities do you refer to, when a Human Lock of the same ECL has better BAB, better EB, and in general, better combat ability?


A Pixie will be blasting unseen from level 1, gaining all the advantages that firing from invisibility brings (like forcing their foes to lose their dexterity bonus, be Flatfooted, and greatly increases the difficulty for a foe attempting reprisal) every single round. It will take a human more than 10 levels to catch up on this front, during which time they have two lesser invocations fewer than the Pixie who does not have to take Fell Flight or Walk Unseen. It takes two levels to catch up on that front, thanks to your LA, and actually has more Invocations for the same reason, even after having dumped two into Fell Flight and Walk Unseen.


So all the human warlock gets for his trouble is faster higher level invocation access, 4 levels of HP and saves, a bonus feat, and one more invocation total than the pixie at certain levels. The pixie enjoys immediate access to a slightly improved version of a Dark Invocation, a strictly better version of a lesser invocation, and all those assorted Pixie bonuses and modifiers. 4 levels of BAB... TWO bonus feats (one racial, one from leveling, in fact at times he has two from leveling for a total of three extra feats). Again, it's front-loaded, but not OMGWTFPWN powerful, particularly not at higher levels.


Yes, I remember. That's the one that's ~30' and subject to being dispelled by a wizard smart enough to memorize greater dispel magic, right? Native 60' flight is strictly better than dispellable 30' flight, and it frees up another invocation for the pixie. It also gives them full legal access to Flyby Attack, which some warlocks take for granted as being something an SLA can grant if it's 24 hours in duration. 60' actually. And go ahead and try to get into a dispel war with a Lock, since Lock has UNLIMITED dispelling. While you are busy trying to bring me down, my beatstick buddy is going to turn you into hamburger. Assuming you can find me. Greater Dispel Magic won't hurt me, since I can bring it up next level, and when dispelled, Flight gives Slow Fall. Much better than him tossing a Cloudkill at my party.


ECL + 11 is still better than Drow spell resistance. It's not perfect protection, but it's enough to require a full spellcaster to consider a switch to No SR spells, and the Pixie tends to have a very decent touch AC that makes the choice a difficult one.

My philosophy is never complete immunity, just make sure there is no easy way to be attacked. If I were a spellcaster fighting a human warlock, I could use almost any spell and expect no special resistance at all, only decent saving throws. Against a Pixie, I can choose between a 50% chance of a lost spell to SR, or taking chances with a touch AC that's almost always 20 or better (I usually try for at least AC 30 to really screw casters). Quickened True Strike + Orb of X. Have a nice day. ANY caster is going to have that combo readied in case they have to blast a high-touch-ac critter. Besides, SR is pathetic. So, at ECL 10, you are at 6th level, so your SR is 21. So I effectively need an 11 or better for a CL10 caster to land a spell on you, unless it ignores SR. Doesn't sound too shabby, eh? Until, yanno, things like Glitterdust, which not only negates your invisibility, and ignores armor, but can also blind you on a bad Will save roll. Then I just ignore you since you can't affect me anyways, kill your party, then go after you last.

Oh, and in exchange for making me use smart tactics, you also screw over your party's ability to buff you, and for you to buff yourself in combat because it takes a full round to lower SR so they might be able to land... oh, I dunno... a Heal spell when you DID take it in the rear... or to put an invocation back up after it had been dispelled...



I didn't specially outfit my last Pixie warlock for attack bonus, beyond viewing Dexterity as my Primary attribute. By the time I hit level 10, I was only missing on a roll of 1 on virtually every attack. Even with a -4 penalty I don't think that RTA's are a big enough deal to blow three Feats on, especially when it's easy to replace the important parts of those Feats with a single magic item. How about accidentally hitting your beatstick?


I did use a wand of Divine Power extensively, and that might have made up for it as well. Also a factor is the huge bonus that being invisible while firing gives you. I won't argue that RTA's are a bit of a broken system. I know they're too easy to make in general. I just don't think the -4 is much of a factor for warlocks, and especially pixie ones. and again, you get the important part of these three feats from a single magic item.

Problem is equipping said magic item if you are already using Eldritch rods, UMDing wands, or otherwise already using a toy in hand. Switching out items is a standard action. Now who is wasting actions in combat?

[Tokiko Mima]

How are you level 17 lock, pre epic, with LA +4? At ECL 20, you are Warlock 16. That's ONE Dark Invocation. As opposed to a Human's 3.

At ECL 16 and 12 class levels a Pixie is entitled to it's first buy-off of LA, and therefore is Warlock 17 at ECL 20.


At the next level, he gets Flight. And it's 60', not 30'. Just like the spell.


When you use this invocation, the powers of darkness bear you aloft as you sprout a streaming, winglike cape of shadows. You can fly at a speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability for 24 hours.

Human base land speed: 30' (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans), ergo Flight Speed 30'.


Basically, if you want to front-load your character, at low levels, Pixie is powerful. However, as the game progresses, they get further and further behind.

If you calculate in LA buyoff any human advantage all but disappears when the Pixies LA diminishes. The human will never be able to gain the advantages of a pixie, barring reincarnating as one.


Assuming your GM lets you, and even then, +4 can't be bought off very cheaply.

I wouldn't absolutely count on LA buyoff, but if you take it for granted things like Flaws and fractional saves and BAB are in, it's likely. In a campaign where monster races are allowed, LA buy off is all but essential to keep monster races viable versus PC races.


Which is why you switch it out when you get Dark Invocations. In the meantime, being always invisible means you start running into a lot of critters with the ability to find you (see invis, blindsense, blindsight...) because the GM is not going to let you ride on Easy Street (tm). Also, to what fighting abilities do you refer to, when a Human Lock of the same ECL has better BAB, better EB, and in general, better combat ability?

That depends on the DM. At level 5-10 there aren't a whole lot of things that would see through invisibility except by a magic item that the party could recover, use or sell. So a pixie could potentially be a boon to WBL by making the DM add extra magic items to NPCs so the pixie is more at risk. By level 16+ there are a lot more creatures that penetrate invisibility all on their own, so greater invisibility is less of an advantage.

As well, the EB gap narrows as levels go up because right around the time pixies get to buy off their first point of LA, human warlock EB damage progression slows so that the human is only ever 1d6 ahead of a pixie.


It takes two levels to catch up on that front, thanks to your LA, and actually has more Invocations for the same reason, even after having dumped two into Fell Flight and Walk Unseen.

4 levels of BAB... TWO bonus feats (one racial, one from leveling, in fact at times he has two from leveling for a total of three extra feats). Again, it's front-loaded, but not OMGWTFPWN powerful, particularly not at higher levels.

It shouldn't be OMGWTFPWN powerful. Human warlock is a good combination, and there is nothing wrong with human warlocks. I'm just of the opinion that Pixie warlock is just strictly a better one they get more and give up less. In other words, they're an optimized warlock.


60' actually. And go ahead and try to get into a dispel war with a Lock, since Lock has UNLIMITED dispelling. While you are busy trying to bring me down, my beatstick buddy is going to turn you into hamburger. Assuming you can find me. Greater Dispel Magic won't hurt me, since I can bring it up next level, and when dispelled, Flight gives Slow Fall. Much better than him tossing a Cloudkill at my party.

I'm interested where you're reading that warlock Fell Flight has a feather fall effect when dispelled. I cannot find it? My understanding is Warlock Flight has no such effect (such an effect is on the Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) spell itself but that's not referenced by Fell Flight), so when you get dispelled you splatter on the ground. This is why a fun tactic for a pixie warlock to gain air superiority is by temporarily knocking out various magic flight items or spells. It's also good if your DM likes to use AMF or null magic areas; it won't effect a flying pixie.


Oh, and in exchange for making me use smart tactics, you also screw over your party's ability to buff you, and for you to buff yourself in combat because it takes a full round to lower SR so they might be able to land... oh, I dunno... a Heal spell when you DID take it in the rear... or to put an invocation back up after it had been dispelled...

It's a standard action to lower spell resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance), not a full round action.

Warlocks have an Invocation called Flee the Scene, and plenty of utilities. If you're taking major damage as a Pixie warlock, then you aren't playing it smart. Warlocks usually operate as Glass Cannons, so this is no different. A Pixie warlock is not unkillable, but they are far less vulnerable than a human is.

Yes, SR is a mixed bag, but Pixie SR is good enough to limit a spellcaster's options. Yes, you can still be hit by spells, but they're now forcing the spellcaster to burn two 4th-5th level spells to hit you instead of one. If you were a human warlock, that could have been two Orbs of X and you'd likely be dead.


How about accidentally hitting your beatstick?

Problem is equipping said magic item if you are already using Eldritch rods, UMDing wands, or otherwise already using a toy in hand. Switching out items is a standard action. Now who is wasting actions in combat?

Umm.. that's a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#manipulateanItem), you mean. Not a standard action. If you have a BAB higher than one and a reasonable DM, normally you can do it as part of movement by counting hand held items as weapons.

So this is where you need to manage your items. You do have two hands, and it's not like you're always going to need to be firing into melee. You're not always going to need a wand in hand, just when you use it's effect. If you're going to be pulling out 15 different wands and Rods, then grab the Quick Draw feat. I find that most of the time I can par down my held equipment to what I need beforehand, and only need to change if something unexpected develops. Again, one magic item versus three feats out of a possible eight (for a human) is a good trade.

Even if I couldn't decide and needed Quick Draw, I'm still ahead two feats ahead in the end. Magic items I can buy a lot of and easily switch, but feats you're more or less married to barring Psychic Reformation.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Once SCS helped me realise invocations are at-will (too much Vancian magic, methinks), it became one of my favorite classes.
OP: You must be honored that SCS herself came to give you advice.
Oh, as for advice: SCS had the right idea in choosing The Dead Walk.Seriously.The threats. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6299061#post6299061) The undead dragons. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6335668#post6335668) The ability to create warriors that disappear. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6231141#post6231141) The Dead Walk rocks! Unless you have a teammate like that pesky dragon shaman...
After a bunch of lines with NO white text...
Go with it. Eldritch blast=bread and butter. Invocations=secondary/utility bread and butter, which often helps your main bread and butter..

[VirOath]

Just something I'd like to point out. Any smart warlock will only be making touch attacks, which most creatures have a horrible AC for. (Since the best scaling AC to CR is currently Natural Armor.)

With any decent Dex mod, that -4 will still likely mean you are hitting on a 2 past level 12.

[Wings of Peace]

Just remember as a base line to learn shatter. Life will be amazing at low levels with it. Shatter spell component pouches, holy symbols and when they're not too heavy weapons and watch the enemy slowly crumble. Higher levels you're probably going to want to find some way of either expanding your blasting damage or expanding your options. If you're going evil Warlock 7/Hellfire Warlock 3/Ur-Priest 2/Divine Disciple 8 will net you awsome blasting and divine casting as well as turn undead.

Edit: Spend a feat to learn either to bind Nebarius or to use the Strong Heart Vest soulmeld to negate the ability damage from hellfire warlock. Divine Persistent Divine Power combined with Eldritch glaive for four touch attacks per round each of which deal eldritch blast damage is also pretty tasty.

[Tokiko Mima]

Edit: Spend a feat to learn either to bind Nebarius or to use the Strong Heart Vest soulmeld to negate the ability damage from hellfire warlock. Divine Persistent Divine Power combined with Eldritch glaive for four touch attacks per round each of which deal eldritch blast damage is also pretty tasty.

Using just a feat alone to bind Naberius doesn't work. It only grants you one very specific Naberius power, and it's not the one you want. You need at least a level of Binder to pull off what you're talking about. The Strongheart Vest feat does technically work, though the language on the Hellfire Blast text makes this method more cheesy to more people.

[thorgrim29]

Ok, thanks everyone. I toyed with a few ideas (the warlock/cleric and the warlock/wizard classes, because another player is doing a mythic theurge), but I'm going to go with a vanilla human warlock, who sold his soul to a Dresden Files like Sidhe Queen (but with more mojo) for reality altering powers. So I'll be starting level 6, and I'm now contemplating feats.... i was thinking, to stay with the concept, of getting a few Fey heritage feats, probably Heritage, power (nifty, and gives me dr with Fey skin) and skin (no reason not to really) , taking legacy at level 9.

That leaves me with a few more feats to choose (will take flaws). I was thinking point blank/precise shot, and use fell flight and eldritch spear to snipe away while the landlubbers (and eventually my undead minions) fight. Other then that, I'm pretty much stumped, weapon focus (ranged touch attack) maybe, improved initiative, fey presence (for the dr more then the spell like abilities).

Any thoughts?

[Tokiko Mima]

That leaves me with a few more feats to choose (will take flaws). I was thinking point blank/precise shot, and use fell flight and eldritch spear to snipe away while the landlubbers (and eventually my undead minions) fight. Other then that, I'm pretty much stumped, weapon focus (ranged touch attack) maybe, improved initiative, fey presence (for the dr more then the spell like abilities).

Any thoughts?

Remember the Rod of Magical Precision (CM). It would save you two feats. If you're planning on doing a lot of flying Flyby Attack is a great feat for warlocks, because it lets you take full advantage of cover. Quicken SLA (Flee the Scene) is a great feat for a quick escape or an ambush. Save some feat slots for Extra Invocation. If you plan on invisibility or stealth being a part of your tactics, Darkstalker(BoM) is essential.

[thorgrim29]

BoM???? Also, I was wondering if anyone could send me the text for the eldritch glaive thingie by pm.

[The Rose Dragon]

BoM???? Also, I was wondering if anyone could send me the text for the eldritch glaive thingie by pm.

Lords of Madness. That is probably a typographic fail.