So, what happens to an evil guy like Belkar when he dies?

[chorpler]

I'm coming at this from the perspective of a non-gamer, who would have liked to get into gaming as a teenager but had nobody around to game with, and who consequently is only familiar with D&D from reading Order of the Stick, Erfworld, Casey and Andy, and other gaming-related webcomics. Oh, and reading the novelization of Tomb of Horrors.

Okay, so, obviously, Roy had a great time while he was dead. It was an awesome place full of happiness, joy, and pleasure. But Roy is Lawful Good, and presumably his afterlife is a nice place. What's the afterlife going to be like for Belkar? Vaarsuvius seemed to indicate that the three IFCC guys would be torturing him (I'm going to go with a male gender for Vaarsuvius, myself) while he was in their hands. But Vaarsuvius clearly doesn't consider himself to be the same alignment as these guys, so maybe they only torture non-evil people.

On the other hand, the singers in the choir of dead pedophiles (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html) get castrated every day, and Xykon tells Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) that becoming any kind of sentient undead creature, or even a brain in a jar, is better than "the Big Fire Below." And the terminology used -- "two of the most powerful souls ever damned to the lower planes" -- sure makes it seem like it's an unpleasant experience.

So when Belkar dies, is he going to be tortured eternally? Burning in a lake of fire and brimstone, etc.? And if so, since everybody in the D&D world knows that gods and the afterlife is real, why would anybody choose to be evil knowing they're going to end up being tortured forever after they die?

[Meg]

Yah, I'd imagine Belkar going to hell. I guess the thought about hell is "Having fun killing stuff is now, eternal damnation is later." I've wondered the same thing.

[Morquard]

Seems most people think CE afterlife is a realm without any rules at all.
The strong/most evil ones dominate and torture the weak and have fun all kinds of fun with them.
Obviously Pit Fiends and stuff are on the upper end of the feeding chain, so they have no problem there, a CE commoner will most likely curse the day he made that decission ;)

Belkar will probably love it there.

[Random832]

Obviously Pit Fiends Balors and stuff are on the upper end of the feeding chain, so they have no problem there, a CE commoner will most likely curse the day he made that decission ;)

Belkar will probably love it there.

Pit Fiends = LE.

I don't think Belkar would be anywhere near the top.

[Jaltum]

Belkar wouldn't like Heaven, is the thing. He wouldn't like the life he'd have to live to get there, and once he got there, he'd hate it. Because, you know, he's evil. He's a sadist, and that's the one taste they aren't going to indulge for him; he doesn't want to see his family (hates them) or friends (doesn't have any) or meet his heroes (ditto).

Belkar probably knows he's going to hell but sees it as one more way the universe craps on poor Belkar--as when he complained about not having a sentient being to use as his personal chamberpot. It's so unfair!

In that case, he'd better have all the 'fun' he can while he's still alive; if he's going to be damned for one sin, he might as well collect all seven. Etc.

[Morquard]

Pit Fiends = LE.

I don't think Belkar would be anywhere near the top.
Maybe not.
But even if Belkar gets tortured by some, there are still more than plenty for HIM to kill and torture.

[chorpler]

So, will the "hell" Belkar goes to be like the classic "Dante's Inferno" concept of Hell, where everybody gets tortured by the masters of the place as a just and righteous punishment for their sins, or will it be more like Morquard described, where all the chaotic evil people who go there basically just set up their own system of doing things?

Because I'm sure Belkar would hate the former (i.e., being in the hands of a god who wants to exact justice on him for his sins) just like he hated and resented being jailed in On the Origin of PCs. But I can see him thriving in the latter environment even if he's technically not one of the more powerful inhabitants, just like I bet he would have thrived in Azure City under the rule of the hobgoblins and Xykon if he had actually gone ahead and changed sides rather than flinging a cat in Tsukiko's soft, unprotected face.

[Khatoblepas]

D&D hells and the abyss doesn't work like Hell. It just doesn't make sense that way. Why would you want to just torture the souls of people who can be useful to you?

Take for example, Evil McBloodface, a 20th level Ex-Paladin/Blackguard. Where would the point be in his being tortured for all eternity? He's epic, he's powerful, and most of all, he's useful. You'd keep him, or promote him past the petitioner stage.

Then you have the spellcasters used in the soul splice. Epic casters, tortured for all eternity? Oh my, who thought that was a good idea? Much better to turn them into spellcasting devils/demons, or for use as bargaining chips. The pedophiles obviously weren't useful in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't take much power to do their crimes. But a hugely powerful magi that also was a pedophile? Promotion! Maybe you'll even get some freedom to perform some evil acts. Basically: Anyone that's useful in the Blood War and defeating the Upper Planes gets to keep their sentience and has a chance in hell, everyone else turns into a Lemure or is used as a plaything by the higher ups (higher ups being anything above a Lemure. Like an Imp.)

Basically, when you die, you turn into a petitioner on the planes your alignment matches. If you're sufficiently powerful, you turn into a Mane/Lemure. If you're even more powerful or influencial, you can be promoted to quasit/imp status. This is your soul, not your memories. Only truly powerful beings retain their memories. Usually people who are unretrievably damned to the lower planes make deals in life so they can avoid becoming the lowest rung of the ladder, or stuck on the pillar of skulls. Then it's a case of backstabbing and murdering your way up the hierarchy.

The lower planes aren't a punishment for psychopathic and sociopathic monsters...

... they're a paradise. Belkar would love it, if he can become powerful enough to avoid slipping and becoming a mindless Mane.

And as for V saying he'd be tortured? Losing control of your soul is a kind of torture.

Think pragmatically! The Upper Planes filter out all sin and want their armies to be pure and made of absolute good (hence the "purgatory") so why wouldn't Evil reward the most corrupt, in their fight against good?

[Ytaker]

Lower level souls are turned into divine energy for the casting of divine magic. More powerful souls are used for various purposes, as with the soul splices. Belkar is a high level PC, and will almost certainly be used for some purpose.

[chorpler]

Thanks Khatoblepas! That makes a lot of sense. I think I understand a lot better now. But what's a "Mane" and a "Lemure"?

Also, you said that if you're more powerful, you can become an imp. Does that mean Qarr is some powerful adventurer who died?

[spargel]

And if so, since everybody in the D&D world knows that gods and the afterlife is real, why would anybody choose to be evil knowing they're going to end up being tortured forever after they die?

It's called a plot hole.

[KillianHawkeye]

BELKAR IS NOT GOING TO HELL!!!

Hell is for the Lawful Evil souls, and Belkar is clearly Chaotic Evil. Belkar is going to the Abyss. They don't torture people in the Abyss (again, that's Hell).

The Abyss is pure chaos and evil, violence and death and rebirth. Most souls that end up in the Abyss become larval demons, but sometimes the especially evil or powerful ones will immediately evolve into a more powerful form. I think Belkar probably qualifies for this. And that's just if some powerful demonic entity hasn't already taken an interest in using him for some purpose. Either way, at that point all he has to do is slaughter his way up the evolutionary tree. Or stay where he's at and slaughter those weaker than himself.

In short, he'd love every second. :smallamused:

EDIT:

So when Belkar dies, is he going to be tortured eternally? Burning in a lake of fire and brimstone, etc.? And if so, since everybody in the D&D world knows that gods and the afterlife is real, why would anybody choose to be evil knowing they're going to end up being tortured forever after they die?

First of all, I don't think that everyone really does know about the afterlife. Not everyone is religious, and 95% of the population are lowly commoners who only know what they're told. Some might have heard the stories but don't really believe them. Some just might not think that a soul is something worth getting worked up over. (What the heck is a soul really, anyway?) Others know the truth, but feel like their present whims are more important than their eternal souls. And of course there are those who think they can bargain their way into a position of power in the lower planes and avoid all that nasty burning and agony. Or avoid the afterlife all together by finding a way to live forever, or at the very least become undead.

Really, there's lots of options. As Xykon said, you gotta do whatever it takes to stay in the game.

[Querzis]

So, will the "hell" Belkar goes to be like the classic "Dante's Inferno" concept of Hell, where everybody gets tortured by the masters of the place as a just and righteous punishment for their sins, or will it be more like Morquard described, where all the chaotic evil people who go there basically just set up their own system of doing things?

Because I'm sure Belkar would hate the former (i.e., being in the hands of a god who wants to exact justice on him for his sins) just like he hated and resented being jailed in On the Origin of PCs. But I can see him thriving in the latter environment even if he's technically not one of the more powerful inhabitants, just like I bet he would have thrived in Azure City under the rule of the hobgoblins and Xykon if he had actually gone ahead and changed sides rather than flinging a cat in Tsukiko's soft, unprotected face.

Well first, the Chaotic evil afterlife is called the Abyss. The nine hells is the Lawfull evil one. But its more like Morquad said, there is no divine punishment involved. Its just the chaotic evil plane, there is a plane for every alignement and lots of other planes like a plane of pure positive energy. Here is the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane) of all the alignement planes (yes I know its wikipedia but this one is actually very accurate.) Personnaly, my favorite plane is Ysgard. Anyway, lots of demons in the abyss are a thousand time stronger then Belkar is right now and would torture and kill him for fun.

But here is whats really important (and its also what most people seems to forget) when a CE evil character die he become a demon...this demon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mane_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)). A mane, the lowest rank of demon. A pathetic little thing that seems to be made of fat. Its possible to become a stronger demons in times so yes, Belkar could eventually become a powerfull demons in the abyss. But not before at least a few century spent as a mane, a disgusting creature with barely a fraction of his original strength.

And before anyone tell me : «why would they transform a powerfull character into a manes» well devil usually dont do that. People can get instant promotion in hell. But the demons? They dont freaking care. They got infinite numbers (they really do, there is no end to the Abyss) so most of them wont ever leave the abyss and really dont care about what happen outside of it. Even Orcus had to start as a freaking mane so you wont try to make me believe Belkar wont have to when Orcus did.

[Optimystik]

The Abyss is pure chaos and evil, violence and death and rebirth. Most souls that end up in the Abyss become larval demons, but sometimes the especially evil or powerful ones will immediately evolve into a more powerful form. I think Belkar probably qualifies for this. And that's just if some powerful demonic entity hasn't already taken an interest in using him for some purpose. Either way, at that point all he has to do is slaughter his way up the evolutionary tree. Or stay where he's at and slaughter those weaker than himself.

In short, he'd love every second. :smallamused:

Unless the Giant heavily modifies it, he won't. Yes, manes have to slaughter their way up the line to get promoted, but the process of becoming a mane (EXTENSIVE torture) is designed to extract all identity and value from your soul. In short, by the time he becomes a mane, he won't be Belkar anymore - at all.

Of course, the Giant isn't likely to give a protagonist such an ignominious finish... we'll just have to see what's in store for the Belkster.

[SSGW Priest]

Given that Lord Belkar's evil is rated in KILO-NAZIs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html), I think the leadership in the Abyss already has plans for him which don't involve Mane status.

[SoC175]

And if so, since everybody in the D&D world knows that gods and the afterlife is real, why would anybody choose to be evil knowing they're going to end up being tortured forever after they die?

Well, there are evil gods. Followers of them go to their realms instead of the standard lower planes. The evil people without evil deities willing to claim their souls end on the lower planes, but even that doesn't have to be their doom.

With enough power, determination and a grain of luck the dead evil souls can become frighteningly powerfull in the afterlife (some of the greatest demonprinces started as mere mortals and clawed their way through all the stages of the demonic hierarchy after their dead)

Unless the Giant heavily modifies it, he won't. Yes, manes have to slaughter their way up the line to get promoted, but the process of becoming a mane (EXTENSIVE torture) is designed to extract all identity and value from your soul. In short, by the time he becomes a mane, he won't be Belkar anymore - at all.
Unless he's lucky and first ends on the mountain of woe where three nalfeshnee hold a demonic court as a mockery and insult of the lawfull bureaucratic courts of the devils.

In short they look at a new soul and accuse it of it's past missdeeds (more often than not complety made up as they have no knowledge about the soul they're currently judging). Then they judge it's future role, which is just a random whim for them although the pretend to pass judgement through some special prophetic insight.

So all Belkar needs is to have the luck of one of the three nalfeshnee shouting "Balor" upon seeing him and he'll get an instant promotion :smallsmile:

[factotum]

I think a high level melee combatant like Belkar would be far too useful to relegate to the ranks of manes or other mindless forms. Chances are they'll put him to "work" in the Blood War. Will Belkar enjoy himself fighting and killing all the time? Yes, he probably will, so "the fires below" are not going to be such a terrible punishment for him as all that.

[Querzis]

I think a high level melee combatant like Belkar would be far too useful to relegate to the ranks of manes or other mindless forms. Chances are they'll put him to "work" in the Blood War. Will Belkar enjoy himself fighting and killing all the time? Yes, he probably will, so "the fires below" are not going to be such a terrible punishment for him as all that.

Look, once again, maybe Rich work like that. But if we go by the rules no. You lose all your levels when you die and you become a pathetic mane and thats it. Now Rich probably wont do that since Roy somehow still had his level fighter in Celestia which means Rich doesnt work by the rules on that. But that doesnt change the fact that, in the rules, a level 40 CE wizard would still become a mane that a level 1 fighter could kill.

But that doesnt matter since we are talking about freaking demons, not devils. Demons usually arent even interested with whats going on the material plane and therefore woudnt even know if the guy who just came in was a level 1 commoner or a level 27 barbarian. They see a soul who just came in? They torture him to transform him into a mane and thats it. Do you really expect demons to do background checks? Do you really expect demons to even care? They are even more likely to turn the level 30 into a mane even if we assume they know hes one because demons dont like competition. The blood war is a war between demons and demons as much as it is demons vs devils.

But either way, you are really overestimating Belkar. Unless they get to epic level in 7 weeks, nobody is interested in a level 14 halfling in the Abyss. Thats a chew toy for Orcus and the other.

[73 Bits of Lint]

Look, once again, maybe Rich work like that. But if we go by the rules no. You lose all your levels when you die and you become a pathetic mane and thats it. Now Rich probably wont do that since Roy somehow still had his level fighter in Celestia which means Rich doesnt work by the rules on that. But that doesnt change the fact that, in the rules, a level 40 CE wizard would still become a mane that a level 1 fighter could kill.
The IFCC pretty clearly demonstrates that the Abyss doesn't work that way. The soul splices and the pedophile chorus demonstrate that at least a few evil souls are kept intact after death.

But that doesnt matter since we are talking about freaking demons, not devils. Demons usually arent even interested with whats going on the material plane and therefore woudnt even know if the guy who just came in was a level 1 commoner or a level 27 barbarian. They see a soul who just came in? They torture him to transform him into a mane and thats it. Do you really expect demons to do background checks? Do you really expect demons to even care? They are even more likely to turn the level 30 into a mane even if we assume they know hes one because demons dont like competition. The blood war is a war between demons and demons as much as it is demons vs devils.
Once again: IFCC, soul splices. There's at least a handful of demons with an interest in the real world, collecting potentially useful souls and making bigger plans.
Which makes sense. The conventional D&D image of the abyss always annoyed me, because it made CE the most powerful alignment, just woefully unorganized. It never made any sense of why there should be so much more CE than of any other alignment flavor.

But either way, you are really overestimating Belkar. Unless they get to epic level in 7 weeks, nobody is interested in a level 14 halfling in the Abyss. Thats a chew toy for Orcus and the other.
That depends on how many high-level characters there are in the world. Such things are relative, after all.

[Hacktor]

Personally I prefer to think of the D&D postmortem realms as a haven for people of that particular alignment...

The same as Lawful Good characters get their idyllic world with "the bar of one night stands" so will the CE characters get their "free dagger target practice range"

In D&D it seems that a character is best rewarded for maintaining a constant alignment rather then go towards lawful and good.

[SoC175]

Demons usually arent even interested with whats going on the material plane and therefore woudnt even know if the guy who just came in was a level 1 commoner or a level 27 barbarian. They see a soul who just came in? They torture him to transform him into a mane and thats it. Do you really expect demons to do background checks? Do you really expect demons to even care?

Demons care a lot. Most demonprinces have a strong interesst in the prime and then there are whole breeds of demons whith the main job to corrupt mortals to further the overall glory of the abyss (succubi and glabrezus).

Preselecting and secretly aiding promising mortals for later use in the blood war is also quite common (as are secret service wars between demons and devils (and the respective celestials) over such mortals often without said mortal even knowing what's going on)

The conventional D&D image of the abyss always annoyed me
What Querzis isn't the convential D&D image of the abyss at all

[GreatWyrmGold]

Evil is awesome (maybe) now at the expense of going to the Lower Planes, where your soul will probably be eaten by some demon (or devil, for the 9 Hells).
Good is an eternity of bliss at the expense of a lifetime of service.

It's kinda like what Elan said:
:elan:Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right now!
Only more like:
:nale:Good may pay off in the afterlife, but evil lets you do anything right now! (Plus, you can become undead without changing alingment.)

Well, that's one possibility. Maybe, as many have said, the afterlife's a paradise (although the good planes are probably better, or else there would be no good). Consult your DM.

[fangthane]

I'm pretty sure that E.L. Kersten of Despair, Inc (http://despair.com/proc24x30pri.html), said that first. :)

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading it before the OotS was even created, anyhow.

[Optimystik]

The IFCC pretty clearly demonstrates that the Abyss doesn't work that way. The soul splices and the pedophile chorus demonstrate that at least a few evil souls are kept intact after death.

Intact, but powerless. It's highly unlikely that any of the three are allowed to cast spells while they are down Below, otherwise they would simply Plane Shift out (especially Ganon.)



The conventional D&D image of the abyss always annoyed me, because it made CE the most powerful alignment, just woefully unorganized. It never made any sense of why there should be so much more CE than of any other alignment flavor.

CE is not more powerful, just more numerous. Arguably, that makes them the least powerful, since if each demon was on par with each devil then Hell would be overrun in moments.

Their lack of organization is part of who they are. Once a demon hits the battlefield it tries to sow as much confusion as it can and hope that that will be enough for it to prevail. Devils are much more tactically minded, which is why they've managed to last this long.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Intact, but powerless. It's highly unlikely that any of the three are allowed to cast spells while they are down Below, otherwise they would simply Plane Shift out (especially Ganon.)




CE is not more powerful, just more numerous. Arguably, that makes them the least powerful, since if each demon was on par with each devil then Hell would be overrun in moments.

Their lack of organization is part of who they are. Once a demon hits the battlefield it tries to sow as much confusion as it can and hope that that will be enough for it to prevail. Devils are much more tactically minded, which is why they've managed to last this long.

I've spent too much time in Sunken Valley. I'm guessing this thread is going to go into a blood war discussion at some point.
Not that my post will help.
The weaker (read: most common) demons are more powerful than the weaker devils (compare dreatch and lemure). Yeah, the mane is CR 1, too, but this brings me into my next point.
For some reason, every supplement I have seen with both demons and devils has more new types of demons than devils. Plus, with the infinite (minimum 74 times more) layers and the corresponding (probably) proportion of demon lords over devil princes...the only reason that Hell isn't CE and devils aren't slaves has to be demon's TOTAL lack of disorganization. If Orcus, demogorgon, and the six-fingered guy without a memorable name banded toether, Hell could be overrun in days.
Then they could start killing each other again. :smalltongue:

[Ytaker]

Hell would be hard to overrun. There's powerful magic which prevent the demons from teleporting to lower levels. So, they'd have to reconsecrate every layer, one by one. They've not held land on the first layer for more than a day. As long as the combined forces of all hell can hold a smidge of land, the demons can't conquer hell.

[snafu]

And if so, since everybody in the D&D world knows that gods and the afterlife is real, why would anybody choose to be evil knowing they're going to end up being tortured forever after they die?

Do they all know that?

I mean, OK, we're dealing here in a world where a lot of people seem to have popped outside the pages for a quick dekko at the rule books, and talk about +5 swords, and reference the Monster Manual. So monumentally out-of-character fourth-wall-breaking knowledge isn't out of the question.

But other than that, how _would_ you know for sure? Some priest tells you about hell, and invites you to follow his god so you'll be sure to go to that god's realm instead? Who'd fall for that? Obvious ploy to get a few extra gp in the coffers every Sunday, am I right, you old fraud? Ha! I'm away to the tavern where my gold will go to the deserving wenches!

Or perhaps the priest casts Plane Shift and actually shows you hell? Well, how often do you meet ninth-level clerics? The sort who can raise the dead, call forth heavenly warriors, bring down flame from the heavens? Not all that often.

Just because all the information is available in the rulebooks to the games doesn't mean it's available inside the world. Perhaps the whole story of the life-cycle of a petitioner in hell is indeed written down - in the arcane grimoires in the sorcerous tower of some demonologist who has conjured forth and questioned fiends on this matter and written down his terrible lore. Or in the Black Library in the vaults beneath the Great Basilica in the Holy City, where the acolytes of the chief priests store the most terrible and blasphemous of forbidden knowledge against the dark day when their sacred paladins may need it to defend them against the nightmares without. But what the scriptures taught to the common faithful say about hell... that's another matter entirely.

[73 Bits of Lint]

Intact, but powerless. It's highly unlikely that any of the three are allowed to cast spells while they are down Below, otherwise they would simply Plane Shift out (especially Ganon.)
Maybe there is an infernal BCS? That's a scary thought.
More probably, plane shifting just doesn't work for the spirits of the dead. Otherwise, Roy's dad could just plane shift back into the world and do his own dirty work.

CE is not more powerful, just more numerous. Arguably, that makes them the least powerful, since if each demon was on par with each devil then Hell would be overrun in moments.

Their lack of organization is part of who they are. Once a demon hits the battlefield it tries to sow as much confusion as it can and hope that that will be enough for it to prevail. Devils are much more tactically minded, which is why they've managed to last this long.
What I meant was that the Blood War has supposedly been going on almost since the beginning of time. Yet, Hell (which makes full use of its resources and is actually organized) has yet to gain any sort of real advantage over the Abyss (which is constantly in the process of chewing off its own feet). The only explanation I can think of is that the Abyss is simply so much more powerful than Hell or anyone else in the multiverse.

[R. Malcovitch]

Hell is a paradise for the wicked, and what that translates to is living godhood for those at the top and crapsackitiveness for everybody at the bottom. Belkar's a good warrior so he'd be able to hold his own. He'll enjoy hell just fine.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hell would be hard to overrun. There's powerful magic which prevent the demons from teleporting to lower levels. So, they'd have to reconsecrate every layer, one by one. They've not held land on the first layer for more than a day. As long as the combined forces of all hell can hold a smidge of land, the demons can't conquer hell.

...My point is, if demons banded together, they'd be unstoppable. I even explained why. But I think that the armies of the THREE MOST POWERFUL DEMONS IN THE MULTIVERSE could overrun Hell (due to the reasons mentioned in my post).

[Cracklord]

Until a realy evil guy decides Belkar is a threat, at which point it will all go down hill...

[Ytaker]

...My point is, if demons banded together, they'd be unstoppable. I even explained why. But I think that the armies of the THREE MOST POWERFUL DEMONS IN THE MULTIVERSE could overrun Hell (due to the reasons mentioned in my post).

The thing is, their alliance wouldn't hold together for long. And it would be a very long battle. The devils use hit and run tactics to destroy their enemy, and they're used to fighting 20 on 1. The demons would need to capture every corner of the land, which would take a long time. While that happened, there's a good chance that, devilish assassins would slay key leaders or negotiators, that old rivalries would start up between groups of devils. If necessary, Asmodeus could release part of his mighty army to help.

So, you'd need something major to get it to work. A powerful artifact that a demon prince could use to control the others, or some general that could somehow force order into the chaos of the demon armies. Or if one side gained the essence of a god, as happened in fourth edition.

[Scarlet Knight]

Don't forget, Belkar is a Sexy, Shoeless, God of War! Gods do NOT become manes. He will join the halfling pantheon and fight, eat, and impregnate for eternity! Disgruntled Stouts will flock to his banner! Tallfellows will slaughter in his name! Tooks will "take" who they will to propagate the followers of Death's Little Helper! :smallamused:

[brujon]

Well... Even before Asmodeus ascended to Godhood, the Abyss had at least Demogorgon and Lolth as deitys. But then again, even before Asmodeus acended, he was ALREADY a god within Hell. In 4th ed he's just god in the prime, too. He just legitimated what was already well-established before. So, you have infinite layers of the Abyss, with 2 full-fledged gods, and they still couldn't storm the gates of hell? Yup, that's about right. The thing is, the Abyss is just that... A pit of chaos and disorder, everything eating every other living thing, with some Demon Lords hoarding control over what? 3~10 layers each? Max? The whole thing is so convoluted and complicated, that you have Succubi Demon Lords hoarding control of some layers, even though they're HEAVILY handicapped in the face of Demogorgon and others... And then you have infinite more layers on which no control whatsoever is established. From where endless assaults come from to the other layers, and into the blood war, etc... In hell, you have just 9 layers, each with a well-established hierarchy, a system for promotion, a system for gaining and marketing souls, as well as powerful items, etc... A perpetual training ground that is the blood war, which the demons make good use of, and, Asmodeus can just cut himself bad and then the heap of blood will make thousands more Pit Fiends. So, you see? Hell isn't defenseless. It's WAY more organized, it's generals are equipped to godly levels with magic items, and they too have an endless supply of soldiers. So the blood war is really just a neverending bloodshed. And i forgot the Yuguloth and the Slaadi. They too have their own agenda and will fight independently.

Belkar would love that kind of endless conflicts, backstabbing, lying and murdering. IF, as someone posted before me, he doesn't end up being tortured into a Mane as soon as he goes into the Abyss.

As a sidenote, i'll point to the wizards CO boards(i think), where there's a thread called "The Iron Curtain" or tower or something, which is a challenge where you build up a CR 80 GOD MONSTROSITY and try to storm the gates of hell all by yourself. And no-one succeeded thus far. Even though your mark isn't even Asmodeus himself. And they even leave open to your discretion what amounts of cheese you'll use in your build. It's just... that's Hell, man, it's supposed to be frickin' scary.

[SoC175]

There are many gods living in hell (e.g. Set and Sekolah), most would certainly be drafted to defend hell in case pre-defined (in ther rent contracts) critical emergencies