What is up with V. (Spoilers)

[Mr. Shiny Objec]

We all "know" that V is "paralyzed," but can we be sure? O-Chul, easily broke the spell, despite "Mr. Stiffly" having been paralyzed before for a much longer period of time, and when I personally think the gods would have been much more on his side at that time (#448). I don't know how paralyzing works, but its probably possible that Xykon messed up the spell when he ran off.

So then, whats up with V?

The IFCC has already taken V's soul, leaving V motionless. They never said they would wait until she died, and while their victim is paralyzed seems like a good chance to take it.

[Zanaril]

I still say she had been knocked out while being tossed around, and it was just the Hold Person spell keeping her eyes open.

[MReav]

Because Lich paralysis is permanent until reversed, while Hold Person (and its variants) grant you a save every round, which I assume O-Chul Nat 20'd before V did.

[Kish]

While their victim is paralyzed seems like a singularly bad time to take it unless their primary goal is making it convenient for Vaarsuvius.

[SaintRidley]

While their victim is paralyzed seems like a singularly bad time to take it unless their primary goal is making it convenient for Vaarsuvius.

And given their nature, I don't see them wanting to make it convenient.

As they put it, they don't really care about V. V's just their proof of concept.

In their position, I'd take the soul at the most inconvenient time for V.

[factotum]

As they put it, they don't really care about V. V's just their proof of concept.


Qarr pointed out that this was simply a blatant lie on their behalf--they knew too much about V and his doings for it to be a simple random test, as they claimed. They'll take V's soul at a time that is most convenient for THEM, regardless of what V is up to.

However, I seriously doubt that lying around on a tropical island in the middle of nowhere is the place that is most convenient for the IFCC--they have bigger fish to fry.

[Tyrrell]

Someone suggested that he is purposely failing his saves in order to find out Xykon's caster level.

[Olorin Maia]

I don't know; has anyone in OotS seriously failed a roll on purpose? Is that possible in this universe? I know that Roy joked about it with Cecelia, but I assumed that that was simply playing around and not a real attempt.

[Bibliomancer]

I am a bit surprised that a wizard hasn't made a Will save yet.

Apart from that, I doubt that the fiends would bother now, instead of waiting until V is near a gate.

Also, could it be possible that V has gone insane from the shock of being saved 3 times in one day (by Fiends, a Paladin, and a Monster) and has retreated into her own mind, leaving her body in a catatonic state?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I don't know; has anyone in OotS seriously failed a roll on purpose? Is that possible in this universe?
Part of standard D&D rules. Of course it's possible.


I am a bit surprised that a wizard hasn't made a Will save yet.
Wizards may have a good Will save progression, but they don't need Wisdom for anything else, so don't expect them to be particularly powerful in that department.

And in V's case, the elf hasn't shown anything that suggests an above average Wisdom, so his Will bonus is probably no better than his base score. Furthermore, he's working against a spell cast by a lich in the neighborhood of 10 levels higher than he is that believes in brute force, and so has likely spent some effort in enhancing his save DCs.

The interesting thing, though, is O-Chul, who has a poor Will save progression. He's got an okay Wisdom, but no Charisma (so Divine Grace is useless). It'd probably take Steadfast Determination (a feat from PH2 allowing one to use Con instead of Wis on Will saves) and Iron Will to get a higher save than even V's middling one.

So it seems that either V is voluntarily failing his saves (as suggested above), or the dice were extremely lucky for O-Chul and extremey craptastic for V.


Also, could it be possible that V has gone insane from the shock of being saved 3 times in one day (by Fiends, a Paladin, and a Monster) and has retreated into her own mind, leaving her body in a catatonic state?
Possible. But you automatically get a save unless you voluntarily forgo it. So a catatonic state wouldn't make this situation more likely. It would just mean that V isn't voluntarily failing his saves, since he isn't voluntarily doing anything.

[Moriarty]

I don't know; has anyone in OotS seriously failed a roll on purpose? Is that possible in this universe? I know that Roy joked about it with Cecelia, but I assumed that that was simply playing around and not a real attempt.

Elan intentionally failed his listen checks because the old man from the dirt man wouldn't stop talking

[Red XIV]

So it seems that either V is voluntarily failing his saves (as suggested above), or the dice were extremely lucky for O-Chul and extremey craptastic for V.
Well, O-Chul was apparently showing some very lucky dice during that battle, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Janmorel]

V's got some soul searching to do (in more ways than one). S/he may be buying some time to think by failing hir saves.

[TMC]

V's got some soul searching to do (in more ways than one). S/he may be buying some time to think by failing hir saves.

Or, perhaps, she doesn't want to be free. Her "Ultimate arcane power" failed her. She rejected her spouse. Her children are terrified of her, and she has placed her immortal soul in danger- one of those fiends is LE, but that leaves two fiends that may decide that maybe 20 minute just isn't long enough. In addition, she's also almost died not once, but twice in the past day, lied to her "friends", and felt a helplessness that most people never have to experience-twice.

The experiences of the day may have just been so traumatic that she doesn't want to be freed. All she wants is to be left alone.

[Olorin Maia]

Elan intentionally failed his listen checks because the old man from the dirt man wouldn't stop talking

Ahh, right. I forgot about that. It still doesn't seem likely to me, but that's just my initial impression.

[theinsulabot]

keep in mind, o-chul has some seriously hot dice, while v isnt known for making great saving throws, o-chul just threw another 20 as per his norm and v hasnt managed to make his save yet

[Kalbron]

Yeah, people are forgetting V's status as the butt monkey of OotS. When it can possibly go wrong for V, it does.

Is it likely that V would fail his Will save more often than O-Chul? Only a one-in-a-million chance there, so of course it'll happen 9 times out of 10.

Besides, it made him look even stupider to be paralyzed during the reunion and have his cloak used as a loincloth. The Rule of Funny demanded that he fail for those reasons alone. :smallbiggrin:

[The Extinguisher]

I don't know; has anyone in OotS seriously failed a roll on purpose? Is that possible in this universe? I know that Roy joked about it with Cecelia, but I assumed that that was simply playing around and not a real attempt.

Technically, any time someone heals you, you intentionally fail the save for "half damage".

[Olorin Maia]

I don't know why but that strikes me as very funny. I have extremely limited experience playing D&D, so I definately don't know any of the subtle rules, and sometimes miss the blatant ones as well. Thanks for the heads up.

[TMC]

I don't know why but that strikes me as very funny. I have extremely limited experience playing D&D, so I definately don't know any of the subtle rules, and sometimes miss the blatant ones as well. Thanks for the heads up.

Neither do I, but I do know that a Healing Spell will cause damage against undead. Hence the Save possibility. Also has the possibility of a Char forcibly committing suicide despite healing.

[lokoone]

two words: Mind Fog
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindFog.htm

[factotum]

I think lokoone may be right there--V could still be under the influence of the Mind Fog that Tsukiko cast during his battle with Xykon, considering it lasts for 2d6 rounds after he leaves the fog; I'm not sure if anyone has sat down and done a round-by-round analysis of what happened in the tower, although even thinking about it in "real world" terms it seems possible all those events took less than a minute and a half (about what you'd get with a 12-round Fog).

[Morquard]

1 round is 6 seconds from what I remember, that means a Mind fog is 1 minute 12 seconds tops.
That much time probably passed when he was running around the tower already, before he send Blackwing on hte mission.
It most certainly was over when they arrived at Durkon.

Also a safe is an automatic success on a natural 20, so theres always a 5% chance you make a safe, no matter the DC.

I guess its really possible he's intentionally failing and counting the rounds. Hold Person lasts 1 round/caster level, this way they'd finally know what level they're up against.

Another possibility is that he got zapped with Xykon's paralising touch, against which he doesn't get safes and has to be dispelled. (Xykon was probably so freaking mad, that he didn't control it and might have hit him with it)