Alien abductions

[Ichneumon]

So... what are your views on them?

I'd say we should stay scientific, but it isn't out of the realm of posibility and we should at least consider it and investigate.

(Also, please keep this in line with thew forum rules, no religion and no politics)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

They got REALLY hammered that night, and came up with an excuse, rather than just say "I got drunk".

In some cases, not all, obviously.

[Spiryt]

Sex and Violence, of course!

[snoopy13a]

It is drunk alien teenagers cruising and messing with the earthlings. Sorta like how some people get drink and go cow tipping (not a good thing as it can be harmful to the cows).

Seriously, I don't believe that the galaxy can be explored. So while aliens may exist, I don't think that we will ever encounter any.

[Croverus]

Sex and Violence, of course!

If humans found an alien, we'd capture it, study it, kill it, then disect it. Why wouldn't an alien capturing a human do the same thing?

[Spiryt]

If humans found an alien, we'd capture it, study it, kill it, then disect it. Why wouldn't an alien capturing a human do the same thing?

That depends on what you mean by "human". I'm human and I won't do such thing.
Beacuse I have no tools and surgeon skills.

My comment wasn't very serious one anyway, :smalltongue:

[raitalin]

If humans found an alien, we'd capture it, study it, kill it, then disect it. Why wouldn't an alien capturing a human do the same thing?

Because they're better than us?

Honestly, I think 99.9% of them are BS, but that still leaves dozens of cases that may hold some merit. Aliens aren't the only explanations however, government experimentation is a possibility (and would help explain their prevalence in the U.S.), as well as experiencing other extraordinary phenomena and simply having the brain interpret it as something that it can process (you'd be surprised what the human mind is capable of to remain sane).

It would make sense if some of the early abductions were legit and now the only reason they would abduct people would be for long-term study. Checking up on former subjects as it were. Which jibes with the fact that so many claim to be repeat abductees.

[darkblust]

I can't really say that i beleive in them,but it is absolutely possible.There could be millions of galaxys,billions of planets,and there is quite a high chance that there are intelligent life forms on one of them.And they might have the technology to visit us.But they probably dont have the same anatomy and stuff,so they probably arent the weird green humanoids you see in movies.

[Rhawin]

There's probably life on other planets, just based on sheer scale of the universe. I seriously doubt that any of those lifeforms have ever visited us, however. Until some form of faster than light travel, or at least information transfer, is at least conceived, I won't believe that we will ever meaningfully interact with an extraterrestrial species.

[mikeejimbo]

Alien abductions are most likely hypnagogic / hypnopompic hallucinations. (From what I've read, they seem like they can be either.) They also seem to have a relation to sleep paralysis and lucid dreams. So-called "Out of Body Experiences" can also be linked to such hallucinatory sensations, so all these phenomena seem closely related.

[KIDS]

I don't believe in alien abductions, nor UFOs in general. A species advanced enough to travel light-years through the stars would certainly have better ways of interacting with humans than kidnapping a few every several years and offering them a chatty evening.
If its only interest were observing, then we would never be aware of it and would certainly not have spaceships crashing on a reported billion places on earth (I think there are more rumored spaceship crashes than airplane crashes).*

** = except if they're Transformers and those kidnapped humans hold the map to Energon in their brains. Then it makes sense.

p.s. also, I've kidnapped Elvis and am holding him in my basement :smallwink:

[Berserk Monk]

There's probably life on other planets, just based on sheer scale of the universe. I seriously doubt that any of those lifeforms have ever visited us, however. Until some form of faster than light travel, or at least information transfer, is at least conceived, I won't believe that we will ever meaningfully interact with an extraterrestrial species.

While the universe is extremely large, and light speed isn't fast enough for people to travel to other galaxy such as people travel to other countries, I still disagree. The closer you get to light speed, the slow time becomes, allowing you to age slower. Also, there could be worm holes (how knows how far advance these lifeforms are). Let's also not forget about cryogenic freezing, using robot life, or equipping a spaceship with equipment to produce food and oxygen - a planet is just a vehicle traveling through space must like a ship.

[averagejoe]

It's been noted that the images seen in abductee experiences are in many ways similar to those found in shamanistic experiences, but with aliens instead of spirits. Not drawing any conclusions from this, but I find it interesting.


While the universe is extremely large, and light speed isn't fast enough for people to travel to other galaxy such as people travel to other countries, I still disagree. The closer you get to light speed, the slow time becomes, allowing you to age slower. Also, there could be worm holes (how knows how far advance these lifeforms are). Let's also not forget about cryogenic freezing, using robot life, or equipping a spaceship with equipment to produce food and oxygen - a planet is just a vehicle traveling through space must like a ship.

As of now, wormholes are theoretically impossible. Sorry.

[Zeful]

I hold all of them to be hoaxes. Any alien species capable of reaching this planet from the very large distance between the two worlds can do detailed surveys of the planet from a very large distance away.

[Bouregard]

If we subtract all those guys who hope for more tourists after a alienabduction, those who are drugged/drunk then the only people left are some idiots trying to be important or just plain crazy.

First of all:
If we count how many people claim to be abducted... those aliens could just ask and get maybe a few testsubjects for an unlimited peroid... instead of capturing hundreds of people...

Second:
Why send them back? Killing is far more easy, and most guys that claim to be abducted usually aren't that missed.

Also a particullar funny proof: Try to find someone who claims to be abducted before that radioshow that first hosts a science fiction story. You will find none.

[Faulty]

"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish" -David Hume

Consider two possibilities:
1) Aliens covertly showed up on earth, kidnapped people, experimented on them, left them with knowledge of the event, and then dropped them off fully functioning and capable of telling their story, despite having taken the trouble to get here unseen.
2) The people were drugged, drunk, crazy, hallucinating, or under or affected by any similar condition.

I think 2 is far more likely, thus I believe people who believe in alien abductions are very guillable or very delusional.

[Deastorm]

This is kinda personal, but it's been on my mind this week anyway, so I'll share with people that can't impact my life. No offense.

Weird that I found this thread, as I've recently started talking with my father again, I just turned 28, he's mid 40's. I don't know his current state, but he used to be heavy into drugs, and claims very vehemently that he was abducted before on multiple occasions. He has fuzzy pictures that are clearly UFO's to him. I can see lights in them, but... it could be a street light at a mile away, I have no idea.

What's weird to me, is I KNOW he is a very intelligent man (not wise, mind you), and not.... crazy? He seems extremely lucid, and not like the usual people you see reporting such things. I never know how to respond to him when he brings that up, and he seems to have absolutely no reservations about who he will discuss it in front of. I honestly don't think he's crazy, but I can't for the life of me figure out why he would lie about it. He has nothing to prove to me, and can only estrange me.

So my only logical choices left are: he's crazy, or he's been abducted.

Now, I won't say I don't believe it's not possible. I've certainly seen things in the night sky I can't explain, and through my classified military background and use of Google, it's usually easy to find explanations. :smallsmile:

Ok, I've erased 3 paragraphs for readability, and will shut up now. Any thoughts on this?

[mikeejimbo]

It's been noted that the images seen in abductee experiences are in many ways similar to those found in shamanistic experiences, but with aliens instead of spirits. Not drawing any conclusions from this, but I find it interesting.

And Shamanistic experiences often involved meditation, which can induce effects similar to an "OBE", and drugs, which we all know can cause hallucinations.

[Faulty]

This is kinda personal, but it's been on my mind this week anyway, so I'll share with people that can't impact my life. No offense.

Weird that I found this thread, as I've recently started talking with my father again, I just turned 28, he's mid 40's. I don't know his current state, but he used to be heavy into drugs, and claims very vehemently that he was abducted before on multiple occasions. He has fuzzy pictures that are clearly UFO's to him. I can see lights in them, but... it could be a street light at a mile away, I have no idea.

What's weird to me, is I KNOW he is a very intelligent man (not wise, mind you), and not.... crazy? He seems extremely lucid, and not like the usual people you see reporting such things. I never know how to respond to him when he brings that up, and he seems to have absolutely no reservations about who he will discuss it in front of. I honestly don't think he's crazy, but I can't for the life of me figure out why he would lie about it. He has nothing to prove to me, and can only estrange me.

So my only logical choices left are: he's crazy, or he's been abducted.

Now, I won't say I don't believe it's not possible. I've certainly seen things in the night sky I can't explain, and through my classified military background and use of Google, it's usually easy to find explanations. :smallsmile:

Ok, I've erased 3 paragraphs for readability, and will shut up now. Any thoughts on this?

You're personal bias towards your father is probably making you possibly accept things that objectively are nonsensical.

[Berserk Monk]

As of now, wormholes are theoretically impossible. Sorry.

And the Ancient Greeks thought atoms were indestructible.

[Deastorm]

I wouldn't say I have a positive personal bias, more of an attempt to be objective in spite of my initial reaction.

There are none so blind as those who won't see, etc. I hate to dismiss anything out of hand, regardless of it's source.

[Zeful]

And the Ancient Greeks thought atoms were indestructible.

Modern Atoms are misnamed.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

The difference is that was then, and this is now. Back then, they thought A. We have since proved B. Now, we believe C. Until C is proved one way or the other, we can only put it forward as a possible theory.

[Gorgondantess]

Well, some interesting facts:
about 99% are in Mexico and the U.S.
Also, many of them go the exact same way: they are laying in bed, and they can't move. Their door opens, and an eerie light or an alien or whatever comes through and gets'em. Then they wake up back in their bed with no memory of what happened afterwards.
Simple explanation. Night terrors. Not nightmares, night terrors. This doesn't explain everything, but it explains a whole lot of em.
UFO sightings are just airplanes, maybe "secret government testing" of military planes that really aren't all that special but have to be covered up anyways.
And then most of it is just hoaxes.
Sure, maybe a few are true- but if so, why didn't the aliens make contact with an obviously intelligent race? The only explanation is that the beings are so intelligent and alien their mtives are ineffable. Which is possible, but unlikely.

[averagejoe]

And the Ancient Greeks thought atoms were indestructible.

This response betrays a lack of knowledge when it comes to the philosophy of science and current scientific thinking. We know much more about the nature of spacetime than the Greeks knew about atoms (i.e. more than nothing.)

Also, as Zeful said, what we think of as atoms are misnamed. What the Greeks thought of as atoms were, fundamentally, indestructible because they're the smallest fundamental unit of matter. We still don't know if such a particle exists. The guy who discovered what we know of as atoms thought he had discovered this particle, and so he named them "atoms" because of the Ancient Greeks.

[thubby]

there is no good evidence that aliens have visited the planet. and almost every abduction story i hear about sounds almost exactly like waking dreams (which i have and can attest to how real they can feel), something drug induced, or the product of an unstable mind.
even a healthy mind is prone to, I'll say glitches, history is rife with example of otherwise normal people doing crazy things.

as to aliens existing. I would be surprised if there wasn't some other life out there. the universe is so enormous, with so many planets. then again, for that very reason we may never see each other in our species' life times.

[Decoy Lockbox]

I took a paranormal science class in college, and some of the materials we read posited that modern alien abduction stories are essentially the modern incarnation of the old "I met an angel" stories. I'm not going to comment on this, but I found the idea extremely intriguing.

[Faulty]

as to aliens existing. I would be surprised if there wasn't some other life out there. the universe is so enormous, with so many planets. then again, for that very reason we may never see each other in our species' life times.

That life could be unicellular though, and incapable of space travel. :O

[Rhawin]

While the universe is extremely large, and light speed isn't fast enough for people to travel to other galaxy such as people travel to other countries, I still disagree. The closer you get to light speed, the slow time becomes, allowing you to age slower. Also, there could be worm holes (how knows how far advance these lifeforms are). Let's also not forget about cryogenic freezing, using robot life, or equipping a spaceship with equipment to produce food and oxygen - a planet is just a vehicle traveling through space must like a ship.

Well, abductees typically claim that there is an actual life-form aboard, and I doubt an intelligent species would be willing to abandon everyone and everything it knew so that it could study alien lifeforms (of course, I'm invoking my PhD. in Alien Psychology, so that's not a real argument. Then again, one would have to assume that Aliens are interested in studying humans to argue the other side, so I guess that's the same thing).

What is a real argument is that, unless the extraterrestrials originated on a relatively nearby star system and/or have very close to light-speed, they would have little reason to visit Earth in particular. Evidence of intelligent life would only have been evident for the last century, and before then there would be little to distinguish us from most other terrestrial planets in the galaxy.

I guess its an impossibly slim possibility. Far more improbably than the mere existence of other life, however, which some doubt.

[Avilan the Grey]

It's been noted that the images seen in abductee experiences are in many ways similar to those found in shamanistic experiences, but with aliens instead of spirits. Not drawing any conclusions from this, but I find it interesting.

They are also extremely similar to the vision of "Angels" (the US is the one country in the world with most Angelic visitations, even if you count in percent, not in actual numbers.
And as stated above these two phenomenon are extremely similar to the shamanistic experiences and night terrors. Personally I think they all originate in the same part of the brain, from similar stimuli.

On a similar note, one of the things that really get me irritated are people who insists that "X had to be built by angels! Because I am too narrow-minded to imagine a way that bronze age people could build the X".

[averagejoe]

I doubt an intelligent species would be willing to abandon everyone and everything it knew so that it could study alien lifeforms

I totally would. Maybe this does make me unintelligent, though. :smalltongue:


They are also extremely similar to the vision of "Angels" (the US is the one country in the world with most Angelic visitations, even if you count in percent, not in actual numbers.
And as stated above these two phenomenon are extremely similar to the shamanistic experiences and night terrors. Personally I think they all originate in the same part of the brain, from similar stimuli.

Without having a lot of information on the subject I would tend to agree, and find it rather fascinating that so many people describe such similar experiences. I also find it rather surprising that so many people are coming in here and saying, "Oh it's just a bunch of crazies/druggies/fakers." To misquote a guy speaking on the subject of abductees, "The only indisputable fact in this matter is that there is a mystery."

[Avilan the Grey]

I totally would. Maybe this does make me unintelligent, though. :smalltongue:



Without having a lot of information on the subject I would tend to agree, and find it rather fascinating that so many people describe such similar experiences. I also find it rather surprising that so many people are coming in here and saying, "Oh it's just a bunch of crazies/druggies/fakers." To misquote a guy speaking on the subject of abductees, "The only indisputable fact in this matter is that there is a mystery."

Well we know what the brain is capable of fabricating, both from simple things (dreams are always fun, especially in combination with a decent fever (it does not have to be a dangerous fever, but a little fever will "weird out" the dreams to almost a "Yellow Submarine" level)), as well as less "run-of-the-mill" things like lack of oxygen (sparkles, lights at the end of tunnels, etc), drugs (It's Yellow Submarine again, on steroids), and of course mental conditions such as trances (voluntary and involuntary).
Basically "Bright Light" is one of the first, and easiest, optical illusions to produce by any of the things on my list above... Smells and voices are not that hard to produce either. The brain is extremely creative when malfunctioning, apparently.

[Serpentine]

Fact: Hundreds, probably thousands, of people genuinely have experienced these sorts of phenomena, and/or genuinely believe that they have seen a UFO.

Fact: Many of these experiences share significant similarities.

Fact: These experiences and similar ones span centuries and continents.

Not fact: These experiences must be supernatural or extraterrestrial.

A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. If you identify it as a spacecraft, it's no longer a UFO... But that's beside the point. I believe that these people genuinely saw or experienced something (goes with ghosts, angels, and so on). However, just because someone saw something does not mean that they identified it correctly. By what evidence does someone claim that a "flying saucer" came from outer space? Nothing except their own expectations and cultural experiences. What are flying saucers? I have no idea, and it would be absurd for me to speculate.
As for abductions specifically, many features can be related to, as mentioned, night terrors and... that phenomena also mentioned, where the body paralyses itself when you sleep, but sometimes fails to de-paralyse when you wake up.
My father has a couple of things to say on the subject: First of all, now that we've got cameras everywhere, in our phones and computers and laptops and even keyrings, why is it that the number of photos and films of UFOs and aliens has decreased compared with when film was a new thing?
Secondly, if there are aliens hanging around Earth, why are they just catching drunken rednecks, stickin' things up their butts, then letting them go again? :smalltongue:

On the existance of aliens anywhere, I've already said it, but whatever: In an infinite universe of infinite age and perpetuality containing infinite planets (and other interstellar bodies), it is inconceivable to me that we could be the only form of life. However, it is also nigh-inconceivable that an intelligent, technologically advanced species with space travel or at least communication could exist in the same point of time as us, much less close enough for us to hope to contact them before we're extinct.
Also, on that space probe (Voyager?) with all the information on us and how to find us and the like, it will passing through a big empty section of space thousands of lightyears away from the nearest body. If there is a species advanced enough to find it within the next several thousands of years, would we want them to know where we are? :smalleek:

I'm with AverageJoe, by the way. There's a big difference between unexplained, poorly understood or misinterpreted environmental, psychological and/or physiological phenomena and "oh, it's just a hoax/crazy/stupid/nonsense". As I tried to stress above, these are in many cases otherwise perfectly reasonable and intelligent people who genuinely believe they saw or experienced what they did.

[neoseph7]

Getting into Alien abductions is one of the many things on my list of "What not to touch with the standard issue 10' pole". However, I am more than willing to contribute some scientific fact to the concept of interstellar travel with what we have as current technology on Earth.

It was stated previously that as one travels faster, their perception of time slows down. As an example: Astronaut Marvin leaves planet Zynon (assumed to be at rest with respect to the rocket ship) for 10 years (Zynon time). The rocket ship travels at 50% the speed of light. The clock inside the rocket ship (Marvin's perception of time) shows onl;y 8.7 years passing instead of 10. This is According to basic relativity equations (Time Dilation). At 99% the speed of light, the percieved time would be 1.4 years. This would lead one to believe that if you went fast enough (though under the speed of light), you could traverse the galaxy and back in an hour, though you had better say goodbye to all your friends.

There is a little problem however. Mass. As an object increases in speed, i.e. gains kinetic energy, it's effective mass increases (Gravitational Pull on surrounding objects). For the 50% of c, the relative mass is only 120%. For 99% of c, the increase is 710%. (7.1X). How much force before the object cracks under it's own pressure? Not create a singularity, mind you. Just damage all of the circuitry, and make organic life impossible.

If there is anything history and science teach us, what we lack is not the knowledge to do something, but the time and the infrastructure. An advanced civilization won't nessecarily have some kind of plot device to make these trips possible. They would have a massive infrastructure to facilitate near light speed travel. The ships that make these trips would have to be massive. They would also need shielding from the massive radiation in outer space.

To end this post with something to do with alien abductions. Goverment Coverups. Do you really have enough faith in the governments of the world that they could all join hands in making a massive coverup against the common folk? That every single world leader, upon coming to power and that were briefed on the subject, decided to keep it a secret. By now, people with some real clout, who know the "truth" would have had the opportunity to mention something on their death bed. The cover is too clean, which means there is nothing to cover up.

[Telonius]

I'll go with the "night terrors/ sleep apnea" explanation. This sort of thing has been happening for hundreds of years. The brain has an extremely weird experience, and tries to put it into terms it can understand. People used to be visited by an incubus or a succubus. We don't believe in incubi and succubi anymore, so we interpret it as something we find a little more plausible - an extraterrestrial came and kidnapped us. The experience is real in each situation; the interpretation is not correct.

[kamikasei]

I recall an interesting article - I'll see if I can dig up a reference to it - a while back about the classic "gray" alien look. Basically, some researchers did some image processing to mimic the distortions of an infant's vision - lack of focus, contrast problems, etc. What they came up with was a filter that when run on a human face made the eyes huge and dark, the lower face tiny and almost featureless...

In other words, their supposition went, the popular image of abducting aliens is actually a buried memory of how our parents looked to us when we were babies, totally at the mercy of these inscrutable beings with unknowable motives who just came and did strange things to us at random intervals. I thought it was an excellent example of a totally "mundane" explanation that nonetheless manages to be both hilarious and disturbing.

[Ichneumon]

I recall an interesting article - I'll see if I can dig up a reference to it - a while back about the classic "gray" alien look. Basically, some researchers did some image processing to mimic the distortions of an infant's vision - lack of focus, contrast problems, etc. What they came up with was a filter that when run on a human face made the eyes huge and dark, the lower face tiny and almost featureless...

In other words, their supposition went, the popular image of abducting aliens is actually a buried memory of how our parents looked to us when we were babies, totally at the mercy of these inscrutable beings with unknowable motives who just came and did strange things to us at random intervals. I thought it was an excellent example of a totally "mundane" explanation that nonetheless manages to be both hilarious and disturbing.

That is fascinating.

[Pyrian]

There is a little problem however. Mass. As an object increases in speed, i.e. gains kinetic energy, it's effective mass increases (Gravitational Pull on surrounding objects). For the 50% of c, the relative mass is only 120%. For 99% of c, the increase is 710%. (7.1X). How much force before the object cracks under it's own pressure? Not create a singularity, mind you. Just damage all of the circuitry, and make organic life impossible.This effect is entirely relative. The mass of everything in the hypothetical spaceship relative to itself will not change at all.

[averagejoe]

This effect is entirely relative. The mass of everything in the hypothetical spaceship relative to itself will not change at all.

Yes, but, from their point of view, the mass of the universe will.

[Pyrian]

Yes, but, from their point of view, the mass of the universe will.Sure, and that'll multiply tidal forces, but tidal forces on small objects at substantial distances are so miniscule that it won't matter. Simply put, it's just not a problem, especially compared to issues of thrust and shielding.

[averagejoe]

Sure, and that'll multiply tidal forces, but tidal forces on small objects at substantial distances are so miniscule that it won't matter. Simply put, it's just not a problem, especially compared to issues of thrust and shielding.

Oh, of course, I in no way meant to undermine that point.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I recall an interesting article - I'll see if I can dig up a reference to it - a while back about the classic "gray" alien look. Basically, some researchers did some image processing to mimic the distortions of an infant's vision - lack of focus, contrast problems, etc. What they came up with was a filter that when run on a human face made the eyes huge and dark, the lower face tiny and almost featureless...

In other words, their supposition went, the popular image of abducting aliens is actually a buried memory of how our parents looked to us when we were babies, totally at the mercy of these inscrutable beings with unknowable motives who just came and did strange things to us at random intervals. I thought it was an excellent example of a totally "mundane" explanation that nonetheless manages to be both hilarious and disturbing.

That is, indeed, fascinating. Very interesting. I'm gonna have to spread this article. Try and find it, eh?

[kamikasei]

That is, indeed, fascinating. Very interesting. I'm gonna have to spread this article. Try and find it, eh?

Found it (http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/featured_articles/v11n4_alien_faces.html) via Wikipedia.

[Grey Paladin]

I suffer from vivid night terrors accompanied by hallucinations. Many people only experience this condition for a brief amount of time in their lives, some only once. I'd say that the only mystery is why people keep sticking to silly mysticism when a scientific solution is right in front of them.

[Trizap]

there are aliens out there.

I know it, it the universe is so large, its not impossible for life to exist somewhere else, and that scientists have already discovered a lot of earth like planets outside our solar system.

as for faster-than-light travel and wormholes........well I'm personally hoping that wormholes do exist.........after all its only theoretically impossible :smallwink:
and theories can of course, be wrong, I'm not not saying wormholes DO exist, I'm just HOPING they do, I mean there are blackholes out there, why not wormholes?

and if you disagree with me on that last point, keep in mind we only know about blackholes through satellites and that we don't know much about them either, so unless your some guy from the far future or a super-advanced alien, shut up.

[Pyrian]

It's worth noting that even if wormholes do exist, the extreme forces in their immediate vicinity mean that traveling through one would reduce the traveller to a spray of particles.

[Grey Paladin]

Rather than trusting an unsupported possibility I prefer to stick to a well-explained and documented explanation. Occam's razor is rarely wrong in such cases.

[mikeejimbo]

Rather than trusting an unsupported possibility I prefer to stick to a well-explained and documented explanation. Occam's razor is rarely wrong in such cases.

Huh, interesting when compared to your signature quote.

Mind if I scratch off a piece of you for science? :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

I know it, it the universe is so large, its not impossible for life to exist somewhere else, and that scientists have already discovered a lot of earth like planets outside our solar system.Well, more like, say, three likely ones, and maybe a couple more possible ones...

Really interesting article. Still reading...

[GoC]

And the Ancient Greeks thought atoms were indestructible.
...
We have no reason to suspect that wormholes exist anymore than we suspect invisible pink unicorns and fairies exist.


This response betrays a lack of knowledge when it comes to the philosophy of science and current scientific thinking.
QFT
:smallannoyed::smallsigh:

[Serpentine]

...
We have no reason to suspect that wormholes exist anymore than we suspect invisible pink unicorns and fairies exist.Reminds me of a quote from an interesting video on YouTube. I'm not going to get this right, but it was something along the lines of "science can no more prove that aliens don't exist than biologists can prove there aren't pink unicorns somewhere in the world".

[Pyrian]

We have no reason to suspect that wormholes exist anymore than we suspect invisible pink unicorns and fairies exist.I think that's an overstatement. We have space/time models that make highly correlated predictions for gravitational effects - and are not otherwise definitively proven false - which allow for the existence of wormholes. They probably don't exist, but that's still a fair sight more likely than things which are inherently contradictory ("invisible pink"?).

[ghost_warlock]

I take a rather pessimistic view of the Drake equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation), so to me it seems unlikely, bordering on absurd, that we've actually been visited by intelligent life that originated on another planet.

[JeffreyToTheMax]

I don't think I'm particularly qualified to post a reply to this thread (which is an issue I come across rather frequently on these boards), so I'm going to echo a point that has already been expressed.

We know for a fact that the human mind can come up with all manner of bizarre hallucinations under the right conditions, including those which closely match the claims of some that they have witnessed alien activity. While this doesn't completely rule out the possibility that genuine extraterrestrial interaction is occurring, the existence of a much simpler and more mundane explanation would most likely supersede the supposition that aliens have mastered interstellar travel, and are using their incredible technological advancements for the sole purpose of abducting crazy people.

Side note: curse your inherently (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination) distracting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_Dream) nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakenings), Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality)! I did learn that exploding head syndrome isn't nearly as horrifying as it sounds.

[Trog]

While there likely is other life out there in the universe... and quite possibly life that is more scientifically advanced than our own... there is no solid evidence of this as of yet.

While there has been a considerable amount of UFO sightings around the world and even, possibly, in such highly alarming places as NASA footage that does not mean those unidentified flying objects are manned (or whatever verb you would use here :smalltongue:) by aliens. Much more likely that at least some of the objects were made on earth by the usual culprit of government-funded aviation and/or space research. Also, given the way many of them are reported to move it is likely that whatever they are they are unmanned. Also long distance space travel seems more likely to be done by unmanned vehicles. Look at our own satellite and Mars missions, for example.

As for people claiming to be abductees I find it much more probable that they have a screw loose.

[The_JJ]

While the universe is extremely large, and light speed isn't fast enough for people to travel to other galaxy such as people travel to other countries, I still disagree. The closer you get to light speed, the slow time becomes, allowing you to age slower. Also, there could be worm holes (how knows how far advance these lifeforms are). Let's also not forget about cryogenic freezing, using robot life, or equipping a spaceship with equipment to produce food and oxygen - a planet is just a vehicle traveling through space must like a ship.

Probably already been addressed... whatever.

Wrong, unfortunately. If we assume acceleration/decceleration speeds on 'not killing the squishies' just getting up to ~c and then down at the other end of the trip would take ages. Then there are things like dust hitting you head on when you're moving at 99.999% c.

And let's not talk about where you'd get the energy to pull that kind of stunt off.

More or less, my position on FTL/interstellar travel is that it is not possible with our current understanding of the universe. There some stuff with quantum phyisics that totally blows the lightspeed barrier out of control, but that's because we're talking about particles with so little/no mass that they're more probabilities than real things.

FTL/intersteller travel in SF exists only as a framing device on which to tell a story/make a statment, not as a vision of the future.

Edit: I guess I better get on topic as well.

Yeah, ahllucinations make more sense. Really, if the government hushes it all up, why are people still talking about it?

Hypothetical UFO Guy on TV special: "The government hushes it up man."
Hypothetical Sane Journalist: "Really? And you're not afraid to talk to me? Wait- should I be afraid that I talked to you? Oh god, what have you done!"
Hypothetical UFO Guy on TV special: "Err..."

[Suzuro]

I really must insist that you read They're Made of Meat (http://baetzler.de/humor/meat_beings.html). A humorous story, certainly, but it does deal with some issues that people have discussed.


-Suzuro

[chiasaur11]

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More seriously, I doubt for most of the above mentioned reasons. Besides, most times humans have met societies of complete strangers, even with the best of intentions there's been massive death, cultural change, and generally the whole deal's been incredibly obvious. And the visitors we get barely appear in the tabloids?

[zillion ninjas]

"I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life out there in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
.............- Calvin, Calvin & Hobbes

That sums up my opinion on the matter. There is probably life elsewhere in the universe, but I doubt that it would bother to deal with a bunch of half-crazed hairless apes like us, even if it could.


I really must insist that you read They're Made of Meat (http://baetzler.de/humor/meat_beings.html). A humorous story, certainly, but it does deal with some issues that people have discussed.

That's a great little story - I came across it a few years ago. Thanks for the reminder.