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paladin_carvin
2009-06-30, 04:14 PM
I want to create an edit of 3.5 made just for those who know nothing about RPGs. I've made some progress, but I'm wondering about the things you've come up with to make things simpler than the rule books say.

Who this is for those who have never played a table-top RPG. For this reason, simplifications that might make things exploitable are ok. Part of my plan is to make 'cheat sheets' that cover all of the rules applying to a person available on one piece of paper.

I'll have what I've completed posted soon, but please begin to discuss.

FMArthur
2009-06-30, 04:22 PM
My first group's early days consisted of us simply misunderstanding the rules in simpler ways, which worked fine. The biggest thing I think was that there was much less magic and much fewer magic items.

SilveryCord
2009-06-30, 04:26 PM
The Player's Handbook really isn't too hard. The only rewrite I would do to be 'easier' would be using the generic classes from UA. if your helping players in person, its easy to use miniatures and already set up maps from modules. it would probably be really good to collect a lot of examples of how to play through a round, visually, in different combat situations, and different examples of actually using skill checks.

Captain Alien
2009-06-30, 04:26 PM
Those wizard spellcasting rules are annoying. They have a lot of things to consider. What about simplifying them?

kc0bbq
2009-06-30, 04:34 PM
Those wizard spellcasting rules are annoying. They have a lot of things to consider. What about simplifying them?All spells are at-will, but drop metamagic. Sure would make it simple.

EDIT: Only said mostly as a joke. Some campaigns could deal with it.

AslanCross
2009-06-30, 04:41 PM
My players and I learned from the SRD from scratch. While I was a gamer and some of my players were, others were able to do just fine without any prior gaming exposure.

I think the simplest way is to start with Core only. That way they can get accustomed to the simpler feats. Then throw in everything else. I was only able to introduce ToB about halfway through my first campaign, and people picked it up really quickly (apart from the initial confusion between Initiator Level and Maneuver Level).

Actually, I think it's the level/level nomenclature that is one of the most confusing, regularly-used rules. Other confusing rules are pretty situational. You could change the term for spell levels to "tiers" or something. Or give a word for every level for players who are more language-oriented. Something like Cantrips->Initiate Spells->Apprentice Spells all the way to Supreme Spells at Lv 9.

Person_Man
2009-06-30, 04:43 PM
Although I highly prefer 3.5 for a variety of reasons, I think you might be better served by starting your players with 4E. It's a much simpler game.

Anywho, here are some ideas:

Create pre-generated characters, complete with equipment, backstory, picture, miniature, etc. Start them at 3-5th level, before anyone gets an iterative attack. Hand them out based on the personality of your players.
Stick with simple classes. I'd suggest Rogue, Barbarian, Fighter, and Sorcerer.
You are absolutely right that you should simply complicated rules. For example, instead of having Sneak Attack apply whenever your enemy is denied Dex or are flanked with the exception of undead, constructs, etc, just have it apply to all enemies who are flanked.
Put each potential action for each player on an index card. That way when they want to decide what to do in combat, it's much simpler to choose between their options. For example, the Barbarian might have 5 cards: Attack with Axe, Power Attack, Throw Axe, Rage, Trip Attack. The caster(s) should have one for each spell.
Let player's know that even if the action is not on a card, they can attempt to do it. All they have to do is describe what they want to do. You can then tell them if it's theoretically possible, have them make a few dice rolls, and describe what happens.
Avoid saying no. If your player wants to change his Orc Barbarian to a flying octopus monster, let him play a flying octopus monster. Roleplaying games, especially for first timers, should be about wish fulfillment, learning to think creatively, and learning to roleplay in a group - not learning the code of regulations that is D&D.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-30, 05:11 PM
Cut out most magic items except for simple things, like a +X weapon or armor, and give out less of it. Granted, this means the party will have to continue fighting orcs and goblins later into their career than normal, but they'll get used to the combat system.

For spells, have some cut out stencils that detail the shape of the various cones and circles a creature or character can use.

I second the opinion to have models of how flanking works. Otherwise the players might assume, "He's facing me, if I back up and circle around to his side, I'm now flanking him, because it's his turn, so he can't turn to face me" This also may be necessary if someone has gone from AD&D to 3.5 after a long break.

Simplify turning undead in some way, or just make it more effective. That way it's more rewarding to play cleric.

Allow non clerics/paladins to 'present a holy symbol.' If the player has established himself as a religious character, and roleplays it, allow them to put forth their holy symbol and ward off undead. Doesn't destroy them or make them flee, but forces them to keep their distance.
Perhaps use the undead turning rules, but a success that frightens the creature keeps it 10 feet away. And a success that would destroy the creature, keeps it 15 feet away. Cha might no longer be a dumpstat as a result.

+1 on nomenclature changes. Some of these would actually be harder to remember than just 1st level, 2nd level, etc. But they'll help get people immersed in the game.

Wiz/sorc spells= Secrets of X circle.
Bard spells= sonnets, ballads, epics, etc. Need 6 adjectives
Divine spells= Normally I'd say 'devotions' but there's already an effect called 'devotion.' So maybe beatitudes.
Equipment= Use specific adjectives for each level of enhancement. a +1 sword becomes a 'sword of ruin' or 'ruinous sword.' +5 armor is 'armor of invulnerability'. (Yes, I stole this from Ultima Online) The difficult thing is that you need 5 adjectives for armor and weapons EACH, that aren't used to describe specific magical enhancements.

Knaight
2009-06-30, 06:11 PM
Or you could just have the Warlock be the main spell casting class.

Plus if you were to make all spell casting classes custom, essentially alternating between the casting class then commoner(while keeping Save DCs as with normal class level), it would work. Wizards and sorcerers would eventually get to the point where you could spam 5th level spells. Its not simple though, which is why I say use the Warlock.

Captain Alien
2009-06-30, 07:15 PM
Wizards of the Coast made some kind of D&D 3e basic game many years ago. Maybe it has some good ideas for your project? I do not own it, and I cannot remember the details. Does anybody know anything about this?

Also, Polymorph rules are many and hard to remember. I do not even remember every detail of the Polymorph spell. What about changing it? Changing it would affect the Druid class, so be careful.

Also, I like AslanCross's idea about renaming Spell Levels.

paladin_carvin
2009-06-30, 07:21 PM
Wow, quite a few ideas in many directions. And I think I saw a sarcastic one in there... that said, let me post first a bit more about my idea.

-While I will be using this I'd like to make something... universal. Perhaps I can make a .pdf at some point- for free of course. In it would be everything needed to make a newbiest newbs game.

-I want character creation to be maybe at current level of difficulty. It has been my experience that very very very few people who have never touched tabletop games go 'I'll be the DM'. Still, if they can be quick that would be great. Maybe premade characters would be good for each class. I want these games to start at level 1 though.

-I plan to adopt a couple 4th ed rules. Here is everything:


-I had considered doing something with changing up saves, but I've since decided against it. I do like the idea of removing touch AC and making them all reflex saves.
-I'm thinking of removing attacks of opportunity
-Passive skills are a great idea.

-I have a simplified skill list. Even with the lesser amount of skills, I think I'd keep the number of skill each class the same- or even raise some of the 2 pointers. Skill are fun and it's a shame they seem to get neglected.

-I want to make each class have a solid amount of hit points in lieu of rolling each level. First level would be double normal.

-Each class would be simplified. I haven't started this, but this mostly entails making each ability of a class simpler.

-I am constructing a list of sample things one can do in the most common situations. These situations are, currently: in town, in the wilderness, in the dungeon, when meeting something new and in battle. I'm hoping to make that two pages of simple, brief notes; one page for the first three, one page for the last two.

TheThan
2009-06-30, 07:25 PM
Take out all the complicated stuff about close combat. For instance don’t make them take AOO for tripping and charging and Etc. Let them know this is a striped down version for them to learn so they don’t go “hey how come I’m now getting hit when I do this?”

I also agree with pre-generated characters and the more simple classes. Though I think barbarian, cleric, rogue and sorcerer are best bets. however i think they should be allowed to add their own since of belonging to each character. name age, etc all will help in that regards. basically give them the crunch, let them fill in the fluff.

Also don’t allow meta-magic and stick to core for the rest. you should be fine.

Lord Loss
2009-06-30, 07:28 PM
The two core things for new players to have fun are:

A) They get to create pwngae characters

B) They have fun in the fights/roleplay. Make it quirky and memorable. Even if they don't get it.


KEEP ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY

ericgrau
2009-06-30, 08:56 PM
I want to create an edit of 3.5 made just for those who know nothing about RPGs. I've made some progress, but I'm wondering about the things you've come up with to make things simpler than the rule books say.

Who this is for those who have never played a table-top RPG. For this reason, simplifications that might make things exploitable are ok. Part of my plan is to make 'cheat sheets' that cover all of the rules applying to a person available on one piece of paper.

I'll have what I've completed posted soon, but please begin to discuss.

Cheat sheets all ready to go for you in sig. Not on one piece of paper, though, and perhaps with more options than you like. It's more like a 6 page booklet (3 pages front & back) with pairs of related pages arranged together, combat modifiers / etc. tables on front cover and out-of-combat stuff on back cover. If you want I can send you the original Word .doc and you can get all delete-happy.

AslanCross
2009-06-30, 11:08 PM
Since you mentioned a simplified skill list, you could actually do that as a general house rule and not just a "for newbies" deal. 4E and Pathfinder did this quite well. I still sometimes separate them to challenge the players more, since they invariably find ways to get tons of skill points.

That said, some changes might make it more difficult for players to move from "newbie" rules to "standard" difficulty, so be careful.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-30, 11:51 PM
My suggestions:

1) copy the class charts from the SRD and give each player the appropriate class chart.

2) Replace Clerics with Favored Souls. Having a given number of spells means you can generate a complete spell list for him on one sheet of paper, which is VASTLY easier to deal with than memorization.

3) By that same token, ban Wizard in favor of Sorcerer.

4) Grappling doesn't exist. If they want to grab something, make it a touch attack roll. Then say "Okay, you got him, now what?" and go from there.

5) Pre-generate their equipment, and hand them the already calculated stats for their equipment. Thus a guy with a Strength of 16 and wielding a Greatsword as a 1st level Fighter with Weapon Focus (Greatsword) would already have all this calculated. You tell them "Okay, you have a big, huge sword. Think Cloud or Conan or something. When you want to hit something, roll 1d20, then add 4. That number has to beat the target's armor. If you hit, you deal 2d6+3.

5a) Likewise, you write down any spell DC's and effects that they have on a "DM Cheat Sheet". Tell them "Okay, you know the spell Sleep and the spell Shocking Grasp. They might be able to resist Sleep, if they get lucky, but odds are you'll knock 'em out. Shocking Grasp does 1d8+1 lightning damage.". You handle calculating the DC's and roll the monster's saves. Or simply don't bother with saves yet, and leave that for lesson 2.

6) Do their skills for them. Unless it is a skillmonkey, it's probably going to not have many skills anyways. Ask them questions about how they want to play their character. Ask questions like "Do you want to be sneaky? How about good with picking locks and opening traps? Do you want your character to be able to tumble around combat? How about being very observant?" Find out what style of character they want to play, and you apply their skill points appropriately.

7) Place a higher focus on Roleplay and a lower focus on Game Mechanics. If they wanna try something, and you think it is cool, let 'em do try. Come up with your own damn Game Mechanics on the fly, if necessary.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-01, 12:15 AM
Captain Alien: Well, there was the 'box' that came with miniatures and a beginning quest. It was nice. They made another which was also pretty good. But if there was more, I don't know about it.

arb: I think you are the first person I've known to be passionate about AOO. Why?

Eric: That is some fab stuff! It's much too much, but I can work it down. The word .doc would be awesome. It will be more for me than for them.

AC: I now plan to never go back to the full list of skills. In addition, I don't plan on sending these players to the 'harder' rules.

Shneeky: I'll need to get back to you tomorrow.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-01, 01:14 AM
Captain Alien: Well, there was the 'box' that came with miniatures and a beginning quest. It was nice. They made another which was also pretty good. But if there was more, I don't know about it.

arb: I think you are the first person I've known to be passionate about AOO. Why?

Eric: That is some fab stuff! It's much too much, but I can work it down. The word .doc would be awesome. It will be more for me than for them.

AC: I now plan to never go back to the full list of skills. In addition, I don't plan on sending these players to the 'harder' rules.

Shneeky: I'll need to get back to you tomorrow.

One way to make the rules more simple:

Here's the skill list:

Stealth. This incorporates both Hide and move Silently
Alertness: This incorporates Spot, Search, and Listen
Concentration
Spellcraft: Which also incorporates Knowledge: Arcana (or Knowledge: Religion if divine caster)
Open Locks
Disable Device
Bluff

That's... about it. Most of the other skills can either be handled through roleplay, are almost never used, or are either too complicated or are only used for their game-breaking potential.

Rogues get Stealth, Alertness, Open Locks, Disable Device, and Bluff. Consider them to be capped at all levels.
Casters get Concentration and Spellcraft.
Barbarians and Fighters don't get any
Rangers track works on a 'hidden' skill which is kept capped at every level, but they also get Alertness and Stealth
Bards get Alertness, Concentration, Spellcraft, and Bluff. They also get Bardic Knowledge, which lets them figure out whatever it is they are looking at.

Yora
2009-07-01, 01:47 AM
There are lot's of simplifications mentioned here, but I think many of them are really not necessary if you stick to simple classes and start at 1st level. Advance in a level only every couple of games, and the player will slowly get introduced into more and more rules.
Even a wizard isn't that complicated, if you have to worry only about level 0 and 1 spells for the first 10 or so game sessions. I think the most complicated parts are skills and feats. For skills, you could have the players just pick a number equal to the skill points per level, and have these skills maxed out at every level.
One of my new players plays a fighter, and he said I should just pick some feats which he thinks will work for that character. Which I think is probably the best for beginning players with an experienced gm.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-01, 10:41 AM
Here is my simplified skill list. I created one called 'Brute Force' which I've always thought would be needed, especially in a simple game.

Animal Handling wis

Athletics str

Awareness wis

Brute Force str

Composure con

Crafts dex

Deceit cha

Diplomacy cha

Knowledge Int

Mercantile Int

Nimble Dex

Observation int

Perform cha

Sleight of Hand dex

Stealth dex

Survival wis

Use Magic Device Int

Str=Ath, BrF
Dex=Nim,SoH,Stl
Con=Cmp
Int=Knw,Mer,Obs,Cft,UMD
Wis=AnH,Awr,Srv
Cha=Dec,Dip,Prf

Many good suggestions about classes. I think Wizard is possible, but it needs to be simplified. Most of the classes won't need to though. I do like the changes in Unearthed Arcana. For instance, the Barbarian fix is great.

Eldrys
2009-07-01, 10:54 AM
When I first played, We didn't deal with time or grids, there were no wizards (yet there were sorcerers), no weight limit, and only magic items with static enchantment(+1, +2,+3, etc.). It made the game incredibly easy.

Morty
2009-07-01, 10:59 AM
Wizards of the Coast made some kind of D&D 3e basic game many years ago. Maybe it has some good ideas for your project? I do not own it, and I cannot remember the details. Does anybody know anything about this?

That they did. I still have it, in fact, although I only use the grid and the tokens of course. The game contained pre-generated characters and adventurers. Feat, spell and skill choices were already made for the characters. Everything was calculated beforehand, including the saving throw DCs for spells. The game didn't use some of the rules, like critical hits, and the skill list was shorter. To be frank, I think they went a bit over the top with the simplfications.

Random832
2009-07-01, 11:02 AM
Here is my simplified skill list. I created one called 'Brute Force' which I've always thought would be needed, especially in a simple game.

Um - that's called a strength check.

Anyway, on simplifying skill lists - in college my group simplified spot, search, and listen into one "observation" skill. I think it used Wis, though, not Int.

There was also a modified magic system, but I don't remember it much - I do know it used something like MP instead of spell slots.

Telonius
2009-07-01, 11:11 AM
- Limit classes - Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, Sorcerer, Barbarian. No multiclassing.
- No dividing up skill points. Pick x+Int skills at first level; those are always maxed.
- Ignore encumbrance. Everybody gets a Handy Haversack to start.
- Pregen a standard adventurer's starting gear for each class, and give them a little bit of money to spend afterwards (say 20gp each).
- Ignore grapple rules.

Ashes
2009-07-01, 11:27 AM
I think it sounds like you're underestimating these people greatly. And sorta insulting their intelligence. People don't need idiot-proof numbers ready for using. They just need you, as the DM, to take the time to sit down with them, and help make their character.

"So, to see how well you hit, you need to add your Strength bonus. Remember how we rolled you Strength before? And I showed you how much that 16 was worth as a bonus? Yeah, that's the number we need."

It's more fun, feels less like being emasculated by a friend trying to act like your mom, and makes you actually learn how things work, instead of just thinking that everybody adds +3 to their damage.

Just take your time, and do some actual explaining, rather than saying "This is how it is!" Don't get angry if they can't remember what you told them, just say it again. And be nice, above all.
It's worked every time I tried to teach someone to play.

Toliudar
2009-07-01, 11:38 AM
I'll add a +1 to all of Shneeky's recommendations - although rather than using favoured souls, I'd recommend using clerics and druids but giving them sorcerer lists of spells available to them (keeps everything available in the core rulebooks).

I'd also simply eliminate the AoO rules. It makes for slightly weird in-combat movement, but AoO's seem to be the area my players continue to have the most trouble wrapping their brains around.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-01, 11:45 AM
Random- I don't know... it just seemed to me that some people can hit things just right and bam. Like the Fonz. I have two skills; awareness and observation. Awareness is spot and listen; it's wisdom because it's all about attention. Observation is int, because it's search and other 'detective' skills.

Telonius- I like to include ranger and druid. I know they are a bit more complicated but I have my characters out in nature a lot... so it's hard for me to just let them go.

Ashes- Many of the people I'm thinking of are 'family members'. For me, it is just that. These are people who don't play games often, even 'common' ones like Monopoly. I'm patient, but it's mutual that the fewer rules the better.

Random832
2009-07-01, 12:15 PM
Random- I don't know... it just seemed to me that some people can hit things just right and bam.

"Hitting things" is an attack roll. "just right and bam" is a critical hit. - I'd assumed "brute force" meant stuff like bending iron bars.

Fitz10019
2009-07-01, 12:30 PM
-Each class would be simplified.

Not necessary. Don't change any rules at all. My suggestion requires no creativity or balancing, just lots of copying and deleting.

Take an electronic verson of the rules and cut out all the rules and feats that don't apply beyond 5th level. No full attacks, no feats that require 3 other feats or a BAB of +4 or beyond, no 4th level spells or beyond. Save.

Then make 6 versions, one for each chosen class. Cut all the *(^##@ that does not apply to the specific class, in that class's version of the rules. The rogue and fighter versions doesn't have spells; the cleric version doesn't have arcane spells; etc. Save. Save. Save. Done.

I once wasted a precious convention hour while a DM explained the whole game to a newb. The newb was very cute, and it's fun to be the expert around a cutie, but please don't waste my time explaining Arcane Spell Failure to a newb playing a barbarian.

Person_Man
2009-07-01, 12:34 PM
Here's my simplified Skill list, which I've used to some good effect. Basically an amalgam of 3.5, 4E, Pathfinder, and SWSE:


Acrobatics (Dex): Balance, Tumble.

Arcana (Int): Spellcraft, Psicraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Psionics), Martial Lore (ToB Blade Magic), Knowledge (Religion).

Athletics (Str): Climb, Jump.

Craft (Int): Taken individually. Can be used in place of Streetwise to Appraise items in your craft field. If you invest heavily in a particular Craft, I also give you extra perks related to it. For example, if you always max out Craft (armorsmiting), you will always negotiate the best price on armor, will have high end armor suppliers, will know and get favors from all the local smiths, etc.

Diplomacy (Cha): Same as 3.5. Also, when buying a big ticket hard to find magic item, I allow a single Diplomacy check to lower the cost of the item (if you botch it, then the cost of the item might go up, or the seller might refuse to sell to you, etc).

Deception (Cha): Bluff, Disguise.

Disable Device (Dex): Disable Device, Open Locks.

Dungeneering (Int): Knowledge (Dungeneering), Knowledge (Architecture), Survival/Tracking underground. This is also covers general knowledge of breaking and entering into any fortified/protected structure, such as dungeons, castles, fortifications, banks, etc).

Endurance (Con): Concentration, Hold Breath, Run/Swim long distances.

Escape Artist (Dex): Escape Artist, Use Rope.

Heal (Wis): Heal, Knowledge (Alchemy), Can be used as a non-magical Cure Light Wounds once per person per combat. Can be used to identify how someone was killed. Can be used to identify diseases, poisons, herbs, potion components, etc.

History (Int): Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Knowledge (Geography). Since every Bard I know tends to trade Bardic Knowledge away for an alternate class feature, I also let people use this as a generalized Bardic Knowledge. For example, although you may not know a lot about dragons (Arcana), you might know something about the history of dragons.

Intimidate (Higher of Cha or Str): Same as 3.5. You can also use Intimidate to attempt to force some enemies to surrender.

Legerdemain: Pick Pockets, Sleight of Hand.

Nature (Wis): Knowledge (Nature), Handle Animal, Survival/Tracking (outdoors).

Perception (Wis): Spot, Listen, Search.

Profession (Wis): Taken individually. Like Craft, if you invest heavily in a particular Profession, I also give you extra perks related to it. For example, if you always max out Profession (Sailor), you will probably get your own boat as treasure in the near future, and will have sailing related adventures. I also let you use Profession to specialize in some sub-task of another Skill. For example, if you wanted to be excellent at Use Rope without taking ranks in Escape Artist (because it doesn’t fit with your character concept), then you could use Perform (Sailor) to Use Ropes.

Religion (Int): Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Planes). Anything related to cosmology, the gods, undead, elementals, etc.

Ride (Dex): Same as 3.5.

Sense Motive (Wis): Same as 3.5. You can also use Sense Motive in place of a Will Save to disbelieve an Illusion.

Stealth: Hide and Move Silently.

Streetwise (Int): Appraise, Knowledge (Local), Gather Information, and Common Sense (if a player isn't sure what to do or is about to do something colossally stupid, I let them roll this in an attempt to get advice).

Use Device (Cha): Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device.

Autohypnosis, Truespeech, Iajutsu Focus, and Perform are abolished. If you have a class feature that requires a Perform check (Bard), you pick another Skill to approximate what you want to do (Profession, Legerdemain, Diplomacy, etc).

Random832
2009-07-01, 12:55 PM
Is there a "one big file" version of the SRD out there somewhere in HTML or RTF? Or the "PHB Parts" and "DMG Parts" of the SRD all in one file each? This could make it easier to do the "cut out the parts that don't apply to X" ideas here.

Optimystik
2009-07-01, 02:02 PM
Neverwinter Nights has gotten tons of us into D&D, easily clearing hurdles like skill checks, saving throws and Vancian casting. I'd just play a brief multiplayer campaign with your friends using that. NWN1 is pretty cheap now.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-01, 03:27 PM
Hmm... well, honestly, this project started with the whole 'cut and paste all rules'. And as I did it I found that simplifying was something worth doing for the players I had. My players (as I mentioned, though it's kinda hidden in there) are family members. Actually, my immediate family is one game and my wife's family is the other game. So I want easy so everyone is accessible. In addition, I can't really get everyone to play NWN. But good ideas.

Siosilvar
2009-07-01, 04:00 PM
Is there a "one big file" version of the SRD out there somewhere in HTML or RTF? Or the "PHB Parts" and "DMG Parts" of the SRD all in one file each? This could make it easier to do the "cut out the parts that don't apply to X" ideas here.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

Each section (or the whole thing) in zipped RTF format.

ken-do-nim
2009-07-01, 06:17 PM
Just play Castles & Crusades.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-02, 12:02 PM
Here is 'page 1' of the cheat sheet of things to do. Please, if you have things to add or subtract, please let me know : ).

------------------------------
Here are the important things you can do in town:

Shop: Most places will have shops. Ask the DM what shops are in town. Most of the time you can just enter and the DM will tell you what they have in stock. Some shops may have a story to them though. You can also sell items to shops, though they may not have enough money to give you a fair price. Sometimes a trade is most practical. If you make a Mercantile roll, you may be able to convince the shop owner to give you a better deal.

Work: Finding work is needed every now and then. You can work a craft you know by working with a local craftsman. Finding a better gig may require visiting the local pub, adventurer's guild or town hall. These jobs will usually have you solve large problems for the town. A sneaky character of less scrupples can find money by grifting, stealing and working for the thieves' guild. You can also make a perform roll to make some money by performing a talent (music, dance, singing), usually on the street or in a pub. Larger cities may have tournaments and gladiatorial competitions.

Learn: If the town has a library or similar house of learning, you can attempt to learn there. If you gain access you can make a knowledge roll to learn information. For a more esoteric method of learning, you can make a Diplomacy roll to gather information from many people at once. This information usually is along the lines of what is happening in the town. You can specify a group of people (exp. those in the pub, children, clergy) to get better information. If you feel you need to be a detective, make an Observation roll; this will let you do things like notice details, recognize flaws and remember oddities. If you need to tail someone you can use a stealth roll- this is rolled secretly for you- if you fail, you may be lead into an ambush.

Relax: After an adventure there is much to be enjoyed. The first concern is usually rest. After a night in the a good inn you will be fully healed and even do better all day long. You can always rest for free outside of town, but the rest won't be as good. You can also go to a pub (sometimes inside the inn) to eat and drink. Each time you drink you must make a fort check roll to see how inebriated you are becoming. Depending on the time, there may be parades, fireworks, festivals and many other events.


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Here are the important things you can do in The Wilderness

Travel: Most of the time the wilderness is merely a means to an end. In the best conditions you can travel 2 miles an hour on foot without tiring. This is slowed down if the weather is bad, the roads are harsh or someone is carrying excessive weight. In addition, some characters are slower, either because they are smaller or that their armor restricts their movement. If everyone is riding an animal (horse, pony, riding dog) then you can move 3 miles an hour without tiring the animal. If you need to run somewhere you make an athletics roll to attempt it. This roll must be made every quarter mile in good conditions. If you fail you move at a normal rate and must make a fort save (which is higher the longer you've run). If you fail the fort save you become winded and sickened. You can 'push' an animal in the same way. To make the animal run you must succeed at a animal handling roll, then the animal must make the same rolls as if it was a human.

Sneak: Sometimes you must travel in hiding. In these cases you must make a stealth roll. In addition to the roll you will travel at one quarter your normal speed.

Hunt: Sometimes you need hunt for things. Any time you hunt it is a survival roll. If you are hunting for some type of vegetation success leads you to edible plants or the type of plant you want (ie, berries, vegetables). If you fail terribly you may unwittingly find poisoned plants. You can also hunt for clean water, with similar consequences. Of course, sometimes you must hunt game. If you succeed you find yourself in combat with a suitable game. If you fail, you may find yourself the hunted rather than the hunter.

Track: Certain characters can track other creatures, such as enemies or specific beasts. Tracking is a survival skill roll, but only those who know how to track can make this roll. Tracking slows your speed in half, and can be done at the same time as sneaking at one eighth normal speed.

Finding your way: If you remember where you have been you can retrace your steps with an awareness roll. If you for some reason don't know how you got where you are it requires a survival roll to see if you can find civilization again.
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In The Dungeon

Finding your way: Sometimes drawing a map outside the game is the best way to find your way but if the dungeon is simple enough your DM may allow you to have your characters keep track of the map. In that case, remembering where you have been is an awareness roll. You can use knowledge to postulate what rooms and hallways are for.

Sneak: Many times you want to sneak around in a dungeon. At these times you make a stealth roll. You move at one quarter your normal speed while sneaking. If, for some reason, you are trying to find something else that is sneaking, you need to roll an awareness roll.

Doors: In dungeons you'll find yourself at many doors. If you worry that it may be trapped, you can roll observation to check for traps. If you'd like to listen through it, you can roll awareness to hear what is on the other side. If the door is locked you unlock it with a Nimble roll, though it requires tolls. If all else fails you can bust down the door with a brute force roll.

Treasure: Treasure is found in different forms. No matter the form you may want to start with an observation roll to check for traps. If you find a pile of debris you can use observation to check it for anything of use. In a pile of obvious treasure you can spend some time to count up what is there. If you want to know what some treasure is worth, or if you wish to count it fast, make a Mercantile roll. Always be cautious around treasure on display; such as on bookshelves, pedastals and on tables. A chest may, in addition to traps, be locked. To unlock a chest is the same as a door: make a nimble roll.

paladin_carvin
2009-07-03, 04:10 PM
I think I killed my own thread...

ericgrau
2009-07-05, 04:50 AM
Cheat sheet Word .docs PM'ed. I think there are already existing skill rules for the things you listed above. Might as well stick with those rather than reinventing them (or maybe that's what you did but with new names?). Just cut out the skills you don't use, I suppose.

Since you've been given multiple different consolidated skill systems to choose from, I'll try to explain the logic behind my groupings. With most of mine I grouped what is similar in terms of rules text. For example dungeoneering joins nature since dungeoneering rules are basically "cave nature", though the name confuses people. As it so happened most (but not all) groupings tend to fit the class skills of various classes; i.e. classes that have 1 skill in a group tend to have the rest.