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Snow
2009-06-30, 09:24 PM
I'm creating a campaing for some friends, they will create characters with 200.000 assigned xp (for those who don't know before the age of 3rd edition same level didn't mean same xp, so I decide how much xp to give).

They are aloud to choose characters from the following seetings:

Forgotten Realms
Greyhawk
Planescape
Dragonlance
Spelljammer

And the campaing will be held on Ravenloft.

A few players are still deciding what to create.

A few chose

A githzerai (still creating it)
A cleric/psionic drow from Menzoberrazan box
A half-efl spellsinger (from mages of forgotten realms)
A ninja from Kara-Tur

Now my questions, it has been long since I mastered this editions:


I could not found in any book rules for money when you don't start in level 1, the are any?
A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abbilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is acctually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.
What rules should I use to keep a crossover like this in a stable level and not getting any character to overwhelming for the rest.
Is there any way of letting characters from dark sun get into the party and keeping it balanced
What happend in second ed. AD&D to all the races you could find in 1st ed. For example all the races from Kara-Tur I can't find them in second edition at all, is like for 2nd ed they only kept the really basic ones.
For the drow character from Forgotten (Menzoberrezan) I found three different sets of rules, and I saw in that setting cleric / psionic 9 /15 how can that be possible within the rules


Thank you very much in advance, I will keep posting more questions If I see that there are knowledge about 1st and 2nd edition AD&D here. Is really difficult getting help for this editions on this days.

erikun
2009-06-30, 09:53 PM
A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abbilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is acctually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.
There is also a Monk in Complete Priest, if I recall correctly, which casts from a limited number of priest spheres.

AD&D 1st/2nd edition were really more about giving you the tools to make a game, rather than a hardline "this is how you make a monk" guidelines. Pick the one you feel is most appropriate, modify it as you feel needed, and work with your player until both of you are comfortable with allowing the character into the game.


Also, I'm fairly sure there is a starting treasure by level table in the AD&D 2nd ed DMG.

Thane of Fife
2009-06-30, 10:04 PM
I could not found in any book rules for money when you don't start in level 1, the are any?
A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abbilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is acctually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.
What rules should I use to keep a crossover like this in a stable level and not getting any character to overwhelming for the rest.
Is there any way of letting characters from dark sun get into the party and keeping it balanced
What happend in second ed. AD&D to all the races you could find in 1st ed. For example all the races from Kara-Tur I can't find them in second edition at all, is like for 2nd ed they only kept the really basic ones.
For the drow character from Forgotten (Menzoberrezan) I found three different sets of rules, and I saw in that setting cleric / psionic 9 /15 how can that be possible within the rules


Thank you very much in advance, I will keep posting more questions If I see that there are knowledge about 1st and 2nd edition AD&D here. Is really difficult getting help for this editions on this days.

1. No, there are no rules for money after level 1. Not that I know of, any way. The Monstrous Manual has rules for creating NPC parties, but I doubt that they'll help.

2. Just use the one from 1st edition - you shouldn't really run into any issues. There is one in Complete Priest's Handbook, but it's not really what you're looking for.

3. Can't help you, but I doubt that you should run into any real trouble.

4. Probably not.

5. I don't think that Oriental Adventures was ever updated. Other than that, what races are you looking for?

6. I don't know. It might not be possible for PCs. Actually, it's possible that the character hit his cleric level limit at 9 and continued to level as a psion (or the opposite). But I don't have the book and can't tell for sure.

In general, you should be able to use anything from 1st edition without any real trouble.

shadzar
2009-06-30, 10:18 PM
OA, Maztica, etc were NOT updated for 2nd edition.

The odds are that 1st and 2nd for 86% of the things are the same, so it shouldn't matter just using whatever material from 1st you want to.

Everything else is pretty much as Thane of Fife said.

Also I wouldn't merge Dark Sun with any other setting because of the nature of Athas and the lack of metal use. You find strange things happening when you give metal to peoples that never made extensive use of it before. :smalleek:

Ravenloft itself should give you any other rules you need to make the crossovers. Maybe Spelljammer would have some information about travelers going to other world if Ravenloft doesn't have it, to help make these races and such work together.

Mark Hall
2009-06-30, 10:37 PM
A ninja from Kara-Tur

What's his other class? A ninja/what?

Now my questions, it has been long since I mastered this editions:



I could not found in any book rules for money when you don't start in level 1, the are any?

There are none. For quick and dirty, you might simply say they have any mundane equipment within reason, and 10% of their XP in magic items.


A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abbilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is acctually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.

There are three different sources for the monk in 2nd edition, and each is different.

1) There is the Complete Priest version. Not a big fan of this one. It's a kit to put onto regular priest, and not terribly fun, IMO.

2) Spells and Magic/Faiths and Avatars. A specialty-type priest. Spellcasting and unarmed fighting. Not bad.

3) Scarlet Brotherhood, which is a reworking of the 1st edition monk into 2nd edition rules.

There is also the Sensei from Will and the Way; a psionicist kit that emphasizes physical discipline, and there may be some stuff in the Complete Ninja; never looked into that one.

For all monks, I recommend having a copy of Combat and Tactics, and using their Martial Arts system. If you have Complete Gladiator (for Dark Sun) they likewise have a good martial arts system, but it's more concrete on many things than I like.



What rules should I use to keep a crossover like this in a stable level and not getting any character to overwhelming for the rest.

At 200,000 XP, there's not a lot. That's high enough that you MAY be looking at followers with some classes (bards and thieves, especially). KEEP AN EYE ON DRUIDS. Their wonkyness starts becoming evident around that level.


Is there any way of letting characters from dark sun get into the party and keeping it balanced

A couple ways you can do this, depending on what people want to play.

1) Allow someone to make a Dark Sun character, but using regular rules for rolling up attributes (or with the understanding that they're capped at 18/19 like everyone else).
2) Let them be from a realm very much like Dark Sun, but not really it.
3) Allow them to use some rules from Dark Sun, while being an otherwise normal character (like being an Athasian bard or a gladiator).


What happend in second ed. AD&D to all the races you could find in 1st ed. For example all the races from Kara-Tur I can't find them in second edition at all, is like for 2nd ed they only kept the really basic ones.

Most weren't reproduced; a fair number of the ones from Kara Tur were shown again in the Kara-Tur Monstrous Compendium Update, however.


For the drow character from Forgotten (Menzoberrezan) I found three different sets of rules, and I saw in that setting cleric / psionic 9 /15 how can that be possible within the rules

Not sure what you're asking. If those are the level limits, that means once you hit the limit, you stop in that class... so the maximum level for a cleric is 9, and you don't go up as a cleric after that.


OA, Maztica, etc were NOT updated for 2nd edition.

Not quite. Maztica was released only in 2nd edition, never 1st. Some adventures were released in 2nd edition OA, but the core rules were not.

crimson77
2009-06-30, 10:54 PM
I could not found in any book rules for money when you don't start in level 1, the are any? It true. One rule that we played with was players got their starting money x their level.

A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is actually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.If you are playing on playing a high powered campaign then a 1st edition monk will be ok. If you are looking to play a lower powered campaign then you might want to advice the player to not use the fighter's handbook monk because it is kind of lame.

What rules should I use to keep a crossover like this in a stable level and not getting any character to overwhelming for the rest.It depends on how much xp the players have 200,000 is a lot of xp. You are looking at characters somewhere in middle levels. 2nd edition has the potential for power gaming so you might be setting yourself up for this.

Is there any way of letting characters from dark sun get into the party and keeping it balancedDarksun characters are limited by the setting. If they have access to all the normal weapons, magic, and magical equipment they will be more powerful. It also depends on which box set you are using.

What happend in second ed. AD&D to all the races you could find in 1st ed. For example all the races from Kara-Tur I can't find them in second edition at all, is like for 2nd ed they only kept the really basic ones.I have never played 2nd edition kara-tur. Do you have the box set? They might be in there.

For the drow character from Forgotten (Menzoberrezan) I found three different sets of rules, and I saw in that setting cleric / psionic 9 /15 how can that be possible within the rulesWelcome to 2nd edition. It was written by many authors over many years. There are inconsistencies with the racial maximums and minimums.

hamlet
2009-07-01, 07:28 AM
The only thing that I will add to this is to urge you to reconsider starting the campaign at 200k XP. That's nearly 20th level for a thief type character and at least 14th for pretty much most others.

Unless you're planning to go through Bloodstone, or you're playing an "end game" Dark Sun sequence, those kind of levels aren't really a good to start with range.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-01, 07:45 AM
Check out the second ed players options book. A lot more playable races in there too.

Mark Hall
2009-07-01, 09:39 AM
The only thing that I will add to this is to urge you to reconsider starting the campaign at 200k XP. That's nearly 20th level for a thief type character and at least 14th for pretty much most others.

No, it's not.

1st edition:
Cleric 8th
Druid 11th
Fighter 8th
Paladin 8th
Ranger 8th
Magic-User 9th
Illusionist 9th
Thief 10th
Assassin 9th
Monk 8th

2nd edition:
Fighter: 8th
Paladin/Ranger: 8th
Wizard: 9th
Cleric: 8th
Druid: 11th
Thief/Bard: 10th

hamlet
2009-07-01, 10:57 AM
No, it's not.



You know, you're right.

Dang, I looked too quickly at the pdf here and missed an extra row of zeroes.

Damn I need a vacation.

SimperingToad
2009-07-01, 11:15 AM
For the monk, there is also the alternate 1st Edition presentation of the class in Dragon Magazine #53, which also appears in the Best of Dragon III.

For classes starting beyond 1st level, using the 1E DMG, our group currently buys our equipment as if we were 1st level characters, then using the charts on page 226 and 227, rolls for magic equipment. Roll for all items, and if an inappropriate item is rolled, or the character doesn't use a shield (as an example), then take the GP value and the DM chooses something useful for the character from the standard Magic Items charts starting on pg. 121.

For players wanting to use characters from Dark Sun, maybe consider dropping the XP down for characters of that genre so they begin at a lower level.

ken-do-nim
2009-07-02, 10:39 AM
Thank you very much in advance, I will keep posting more questions If I see that there are knowledge about 1st and 2nd edition AD&D here. Is really difficult getting help for this editions on this days.

That's because you are posting on the wrong forum. Dragonsfoot (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/index.php) is where all the TSR-era dungeons & dragons editions are talked about. Some of the people who posted above in this thread also hang out there (myself included).

hamlet
2009-07-02, 10:50 AM
That's because you are posting on the wrong forum. Dragonsfoot (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/index.php) is where all the TSR-era dungeons & dragons editions are talked about. Some of the people who posted above in this thread also hang out there (myself included).

They do have their own foibles, though, just like this place.

SimperingToad
2009-07-02, 12:38 PM
They do have their own foibles, though, just like this place.

True enough. Nothing new really. After all, the best place to talk about MERP (for example) would be on a site that 'specializes' in MERP, not on WoTCs forum. Everyone has their peculiarities.

shadzar
2009-07-02, 01:53 PM
That's because you are posting on the wrong forum. Dragonsfoot (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/index.php) is where all the TSR-era dungeons & dragons editions are talked about. Some of the people who posted above in this thread also hang out there (myself included).

:smallconfused: Steve can kiss my....

AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with asking about AD&D here, this forum is for ALL RPGs. So Snow, don't let the 3.x and 4th edition nazis make you think you have to go somewhere else to post and ask questions about AD&D or older versions.

Snow
2009-07-03, 09:06 AM
First of all thank you all for you help, thanks a lot.

The monk from the complete priest is the one i wrote wrongly that i found in the complete warrior, and for me that one sucks. I'm looking now for the ones that Mark Hall told me an see how those are.

Also on the comments of Mark Hall, I'm not going to aloud the followers on this particular campaign. And what do you mean by the wonkyness of druids. Ohh, and the character that's ninja, is just ninja. Because in 2nd edition for what I found the ninja is not like in 1st edition, the one from the complete ninja. The ninja from oriental adventures I could never found it in second edition.

For the drow cleric / psionic, according to drow rules, cleric does not have a limit for drows, about in level 22 they are slain of make demigods depending on the way the gods looks at the cleric. Does why I do not understand the 9/15 cleric/psionic, is there that would make psionic drows level up faster in that class?

The Races I want to use from Kara Tur are Korobokuru, Hengeyokai and Spirit Folk. I don't know why on the AD&D 2nd edition they never update the oriental adventures.

shadzar
2009-07-03, 10:19 AM
I don't know why on the AD&D 2nd edition they never update the oriental adventures.

Because they saw no need to just reprint the books with minor teaks. All it takes to make use of something from 1st to 2nd is just little fixes to the things that changed. Or you can just use them as is with mostly no ill effects.

ken-do-nim
2009-07-03, 10:41 AM
The monk from the complete priest is the one i wrote wrongly that i found in the complete warrior, and for me that one sucks. I'm looking now for the ones that Mark Hall told me an see how those are.


The Scarlet Brotherhood monk is pretty cool. I will caution you though that the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement doesn't come on eBay very often, so snag it when you see it. It also has a 2E assassin class in it. I also happen to like the Spells & Magic monk.

Oriental Adventures did not need to be reprinted for 2E because it is a stand-alone system, and nothing needed to change. You weren't meant to mix Oriental classes with the regular PHB classes. I've heard they are balanced well with each other but not quite balanced with the regular ones. Man I've always wanted to play in or run an Oriental Adventures game. The martial arts system is very cool.

ken-do-nim
2009-07-03, 10:45 AM
:smallconfused: Steve can kiss my....

AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with asking about AD&D here, this forum is for ALL RPGs. So Snow, don't let the 3.x and 4th edition nazis make you think you have to go somewhere else to post and ask questions about AD&D or older versions.

Let me guess, you tried to go to Dragonsfoot and talk 3rd edition, right?

But yes, by all means continue to ask questions about TSR-era D&D here; there are a few of us on the board who can answer them. What is sweet about Dragonsfoot are the threads about topics that you didn't realize you had questions about, but after reading them you realized you made one too many assumptions.

Snow
2009-07-03, 10:57 AM
I found the Scarlet monk a friend had it. It's really good, but the killing blow in second level looks like too powerfull.

I was reading the forum you were talking about, and true I made too many assumptions.

crimson77
2009-07-03, 11:48 AM
For the drow cleric / psionic, according to drow rules, cleric does not have a limit for drows, about in level 22 they are slain of make demigods depending on the way the gods looks at the cleric. Does why I do not understand the 9/15 cleric/psionic, is there that would make psionic drows level up faster in that class?

From what I remember of 2nd edition leveling, depending on your race, you could either multi-class or dual-class (I might have my terms wrong here). In one you would divide your xp between two classes. However, in the other, you would take a class for a while and then drop it (still holding the abilities) and then start over with a new class (e.g., level 1). This might have been what is occurring with that NPC.

shadzar
2009-07-03, 11:52 AM
Let me guess, you tried to go to Dragonsfoot and talk 3rd edition, right?

No TEsTSNBN* are of little concern to me, it was him thinking the forums would break if you touch them to add a script to help stop the porn bots, and I called him an idiot for thinking phpBB was so feeble, and if it was then why do they use it. I even wrote and GAVE him the script changes to prevent the porn bots from hitting up the forum and leaving anything there with a simple ereg_replace() edit to the posting form so that it would be a special filter against porn.

IIRC, Egg of Coot even agreed with me that it was a simple hack** to the forums to help stop the porn bots.

*lower case s added to denote 4th now as well as third.

**hacks are what phpBB mods are/were called during phpBB2 era

[/derail]

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-03, 12:04 PM
No TEsTSNBN*

Gazoontite.

Thane of Fife
2009-07-03, 12:56 PM
Gazoontite.

*The Editions That Shall Not Be Named*

Some of the people at Dragonsfoot have some strong feelings.

Mark Hall
2009-07-03, 02:56 PM
Also on the comments of Mark Hall, I'm not going to aloud the followers on this particular campaign. And what do you mean by the wonkyness of druids. Ohh, and the character that's ninja, is just ninja. Because in 2nd edition for what I found the ninja is not like in 1st edition, the one from the complete ninja. The ninja from oriental adventures I could never found it in second edition.

1) The Wonkyness of druids: Starting around 9th level (IIRC), druids have to start fighting for level. That ends sometime around 13th or so (I can't remember precisely, and am too lazy to go look it up).
2) Is this the Complete Ninja Ninja?



For the drow cleric / psionic, according to drow rules, cleric does not have a limit for drows, about in level 22 they are slain of make demigods depending on the way the gods looks at the cleric. Does why I do not understand the 9/15 cleric/psionic, is there that would make psionic drows level up faster in that class?

I'd have to look at the respective XP tables; Clerics slow way the heck down at some point, and I don't know how psionicists go. Plus, NPCs sometimes break the rules.



The Races I want to use from Kara Tur are Korobokuru, Hengeyokai and Spirit Folk. I don't know why on the AD&D 2nd edition they never update the oriental adventures.

Those should be usable without much modification in 2e. If you really want to, take a look at the Kara-Tur supplement for the Monster Manual, which contains rules for them.

Snow
2010-01-02, 03:18 PM
Thank you very much for all your help to everyone. And you were right about the xp 200.000 was maybe to much allowing powergaming. I finally reduce to 70.000.

On the original I was presented with a:

Gond Priest 6 with Kit "Gond Holy Builder
Wizard 6
Engineer 6
Bard 9

With the following stats:
Str 3
Dex 18
Con 3
Int 18
Wis 15
Car 18
Total 75

Mark Hall
2010-01-03, 03:17 AM
I could not found in any book rules for money when you don't start in level 1, the are any?

None of widespread canon. Dark Sun started every at 3rd, and gave you 3 times the starting gold, but ten times the starting gold isn't going to be nearly enough. I would, instead, give them X experience worth of magical items, and let them choose some reasonable mundane equipment.


A guy wants a monk, in AD&D first edition books the monk has a lot of abbilities, but in second edition AD&D books the only monk I could found was from the complete warrior, and it doesn't have almost none of the skills, is there any other monk in any other book similar to the one 1st ed AD&D, that is acctually really similar to the one in 3rd ed D&D.

There a number of sources for monks in a 1e/2e hybrid.

1) 1st edition AD&D
2) Oriental Adventures, which has a different type of monk available.
3) Complete Fighter and Complete Priest, both of which have a kit-based monk.
4) Spells and Magic/Faiths and Avatars both have a monk as a type of specialty priest. They're spellcasters on top of being hand-to-hand combatants.
5) Scarlett Brotherhood, a late 2e supplement that contains a conversion of the 1e monk to 2e rules.


What rules should I use to keep a crossover like this in a stable level and not getting any character to overwhelming for the rest.

Difficult to manage, really; at the really high XP levels, few D&D-based games balance well.


Is there any way of letting characters from dark sun get into the party and keeping it balanced

Main thing I would do is allow DS characters, but force them to roll stats like everyone else... instead of the DS-standard 5d4 arranged to taste, make them use 3d6 or 4d6-l or what have you. They're going to be a little bit tougher, but the curve goes WAY down.


What happend in second ed. AD&D to all the races you could find in 1st ed. For example all the races from Kara-Tur I can't find them in second edition at all, is like for 2nd ed they only kept the really basic ones.

Karatur wasn't reprinted for 2e. You can use them straight, however, if you like. For more races, however, you'll want Complete Book of Humanoids or Skills and Powers.


For the drow character from Forgotten (Menzoberrezan) I found three different sets of rules, and I saw in that setting cleric / psionic 9 /15 how can that be possible within the rules

NPCs don't always follow PC rules.

Ruinix
2010-01-03, 10:51 AM
hello guys. im a player for snow campaing.

and i dont know really what to play.

i was wanting something like warlock of 3.5. most precisely i was thinking in a eldrich knight.

now i know there isnt nothing like the warlock in 2.0 ed. there is any way to build something like that with a mix of warrior / psionic /something else (if needed) ?????

Mark Hall
2010-01-04, 10:15 AM
hello guys. im a player for snow campaing.

and i dont know really what to play.

i was wanting something like warlock of 3.5. most precisely i was thinking in a eldrich knight.

now i know there isnt nothing like the warlock in 2.0 ed. there is any way to build something like that with a mix of warrior / psionic /something else (if needed) ?????

Psionic could work, but most of the kits and the like for that class are more ninja/martial artist. As I suggested above, look at the book "Spells and Magic", specifically the builds for priests. You can give your character spell-like abilities, even delay them by level. If you completely ditch spell-casting abilities (i.e. take no spheres), improve your ThAC0 and the like, you may still have enough to get a decent number of spell-likes. Since you're wanting a knight-ish character, cleric further mixes in since you're assumed to have the ability to wear any armor and use most blunt weapons at the outset.

Ruinix
2010-01-04, 12:06 PM
Psionic could work, but most of the kits and the like for that class are more ninja/martial artist. As I suggested above, look at the book "Spells and Magic", specifically the builds for priests. You can give your character spell-like abilities, even delay them by level. If you completely ditch spell-casting abilities (i.e. take no spheres), improve your ThAC0 and the like, you may still have enough to get a decent number of spell-likes. Since you're wanting a knight-ish character, cleric further mixes in since you're assumed to have the ability to wear any armor and use most blunt weapons at the outset.

great add.

so the idea would be a psionic like divine caster more like a a form of divine enhanced char

Jayabalard
2010-01-04, 03:29 PM
1) The Wonkyness of druids: Starting around 9th level (IIRC), druids have to start fighting for level. That ends sometime around 13th or so (I can't remember precisely, and am too lazy to go look it up).In 1e I seem to recall that it continues until the druid class runs out of levels.

Mark Hall
2010-01-04, 03:49 PM
In 1e I seem to recall that it continues until the druid class runs out of levels.

In PH, yes. In UA, they don't need to both once they're heirophants.

Jayabalard
2010-01-04, 03:52 PM
In PH, yes. In UA, they don't need to both once they're heirophants.hmm... I could have sworn that UA continued the battles up to another maximum. It's been a while and I might be mixing it up with something else.

hamlet
2010-01-04, 04:37 PM
hmm... I could have sworn that UA continued the battles up to another maximum. It's been a while and I might be mixing it up with something else.

I believe the battles/contests continued until one managed to become Grand Druid (i.e., the boss of all druids below 15th level throughout the entire world) and afterward the Grand Druid could step down to become a Heirophant, resetting his experience and venturing into the realms of true wonkiness.

Matthew
2010-01-05, 03:49 PM
So the idea would be a psionic like divine caster more like a a form of divine enhanced character

That seems to be about the size of it. Thinking about it, though, is Snow not open to a wholesale conversion of the D20/3e class to AD&D/2e?

Snow
2010-01-05, 04:54 PM
hello guys. im a player for snow campaing.

and i dont know really what to play.

i was wanting something like warlock of 3.5. most precisely i was thinking in a eldrich knight.

now i know there isnt nothing like the warlock in 2.0 ed. there is any way to build something like that with a mix of warrior / psionic /something else (if needed) ?????

Ruinix check the complete forum, I had already created a post regarding this. They gave a few good ideas there:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136987

Xar Draxus
2016-05-24, 04:59 PM
To answer your questions, albeit very late in the game...

First of all, I would discourage allowing any Dark Sun characters in your Ravenloft campaign for several very solid reasons, NONE of which involve game "balance".

The first, and most prominent reason is the crystal sphere surrounding Athas. Even greater deities like Ao and Paladine can't get through it. There are no longer God's on Athas, it's people have been forsaken. So even Ravenloft isn't stealing Athasian bad guys from the desert planet. Otherwise, several Dragon Kings would have ended up ransacking Ravenloft by now, and decorated their floors and walls with Straud carpets and Lord Soth tapestries, respectively...

Secondly, atmosphere. Dark Sun is desperate, gruelling, and hard. Its inhabitants are, therefore, hard. That's why the increased attributes. Additionally, the magic there has a vastly different flavor that needs to be preserved, no pun intended.

Thirdly, psionics. Other than Githyanki and Mind Flayers, I actively avoid poisoning a fantasy game with psionics. Psionics can right quick muddle things up in a hurry. And Athasian characters can be spectacularly powerful psionicists.

Forth, and last, no Dark Sun character should ever suffer being neutered by Faerun for the sake of balance! If my characters showed up on Faerun, they would kick some backside, and their opponents would just have to step up their "A" game to contend, thank you very much...

Ok, next point...

Monks. I never played the old 1st edition version, but heard cheesy things about the quivering palm death punch. That said, the only version I ever saw in game play utilized our favorite setup, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition, utilizing Skills & Powers, Combat & Tactics, Spells & Magic and High Level Campaigns. You'll find the bulk of the necessary information in Spells & Magic, but will need a firm grasp on the rules in Skills & Powers. Combat & Tactics gives the class it's teeth, and High Level Campaigns rounds them out beautifully, should they reach 10th level or higher.

Our monk didn't like the meager choices for a deity in the standard Faiths & Avatars of Faerun, so the DM referenced Kara-Tur and it's "Immortals" to get the monks source of power established. But there are several deities in Faiths & Avatars that specifically accomodate monks. Ilmater, Azuth and Oghma have detailed descriptions.

I hope that helps. I also hope this even gets read, lol. This is an old thread, but I wanted to answer it anyway :-)

Xar Draxus
2016-05-24, 05:32 PM
Oh! I forgot to address the level limit issues.

In whatever campaign you might be running, go to the most appropriate book for racial level limits. All the Skills & Powers lineup addressed this issue well. They offered raising the limit on a given class based on that class's lowest prime requisite ability score, OR, doubling or tripling the required experience to continue to advance. They specifically recommended not using both methods, which we specifically ignored.

So, in our Birthright game, an Elven (Sidhelien) Fighter/Mage (War Wizard kit) has a base level limit of 12 for the Fighter class, and 15 in his Mage class according to that specific campaign setting.

The Fighter class has a prime requisite of strength (minimum of 9), and the Mage class has a prime requisite of intelligence (minimum of 9). My character has a strength of 17, and an intelligence of 19. According to the chart in the Skills & Powers book, he would be able to advance his Fighter class to 15th level unhindered, having received a level limit modifier of +3 from his 17 strength. His mage class, however, would advance unhindered to 19th level, as a 19 Intelligence grants a modifier of +4.

After reaching these levels in those classes, my character would have to earn twice the experience required to level.

Level limit modifiers apply only to the actual ability of the character, not the modified ability of any magical items, such as ioun stones or girdles of giant strength. For example, my character wears a Girdle of Frost Giant Strength (Strength 21), but still only receives the +3 level limit modifier, not a +5 for the "temporary" 21 strength.

Additionally, age modifiers apply. As my character gets older, he would gain an intelligence of 20, but then lose a point of strength, falling to 16. That would change his limits to +5 and +2, respectively.

Lord Torath
2016-05-25, 07:21 AM
To answer your questions, albeit very late in the game...

First of all, I would discourage allowing any Dark Sun characters in your Ravenloft campaign for several very solid reasons, NONE of which involve game "balance".

The first, and most prominent reason is the crystal sphere surrounding Athas. Even greater deities like Ao and Paladine can't get through it. There are no longer God's on Athas, it's people have been forsaken. So even Ravenloft isn't stealing Athasian bad guys from the desert planet. Otherwise, several Dragon Kings would have ended up ransacking Ravenloft by now, and decorated their floors and walls with Straud carpets and Lord Soth tapestries, respectively...One of the dragon kings already has his/her own domain in Ravenloft. Kalidnay is its own little Island or Terror ruled by Kalid-Ma and his/her high priestess Thakok-An (his/her because there's some ambiguity about whether Kalid-Ma is male or female. In one source he's male, but in an earlier source, she's female). Getting to Ravenloft is easy. It's getting out that's the tricky part...

Thrudd
2016-05-25, 08:21 AM
One bit of advice: I would iron out exactly what ruleset you'll be using and make sure all the characters conform to that. 1e and 2e are very similar, but there are significant differences, too. Whether you go with one, the other, or a homebrew combination of both, everyone playing needs to know what the rules are when they make their characters. For instance, the race restrictions on classes and level limits and multiclass options are different in both editions, people will need to know those things. The way thief skills are earned is different in both editions. Non weapon proficiencies are different. How clerics and druids choose spells is different. If someone is picking a 1e class and you are using 2e rules, you need to make adjustments, and vice versa.

Thrudd
2016-05-25, 08:27 AM
hello guys. im a player for snow campaing.

and i dont know really what to play.

i was wanting something like warlock of 3.5. most precisely i was thinking in a eldrich knight.

now i know there isnt nothing like the warlock in 2.0 ed. there is any way to build something like that with a mix of warrior / psionic /something else (if needed) ?????

Eldritch knight would be an elf or half elf fighter/magic-user

Mark Hall
2016-05-25, 12:17 PM
The Mod Wonder: Closed for Necromancy. Check those dates, children!