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Adumbration
2009-07-01, 10:31 AM
I just happened to stumble upon this class in Complete Psionic, and to my surprise, it actually seems pretty decent. Fewer powers known than a psion, but of higher level than psychic warrior, and you get as many power points as a psion.

You also gain Mantles, which seem to be mechanically and thematically interesting. They also appear to be quite decent gishes, with their 3/4 BaB and armor proficiencies. They might be able to tank quite nicely if you packed up the right mantles, started as Elan and picked some feats.

As a matter of fact, I'm considering making one as a back-up character for a game I'm currently in. (5th level.) Any opinions on the class, suggestions for a build?

Eldariel
2009-07-01, 11:12 AM
While I'm sure you're aware of this, Ardent Build Compendium (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-697576) might be of interest to you. And yeah, they are pretty much Psi Gishes in one class. Definitely my favourite template for casters; note that they derive their powers known from manifester level so Practiced Manifester allows you to dip 4 levels in whatever without losing out on power levels (you'll lose out on PP and powers known, of course). It's really the only caster-type class in the entire D&D that multiclasses well.

Optimystik
2009-07-01, 11:15 AM
I also love the Ardent :smallsmile: If it's ideas you want, HaikenEdge on the Gleemax CharOp boards posted some amazing Ardent builds a couple of years back. The post has been archived, but you can nevertheless read it here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-697576)

Some of the highlights:

- An Ardent/Anarchic Initiate that can deal 23d6+23 points of damage with one blast;
Mantles (they switch throughout the build): Physical Power, Pain and Suffering, Guardian, Energy, Time, Destruction

- An Ardent/Psion Uncarnate/Ectopic Adept that is able to stay almost completely out of danger while winning battles with an army of constructs;
Primary Mantles: Force, Energy
Secondary Mantles: Creation, Destruction
Feat Mantles: -

- An Ardent/Thrallherd/Crystal Master that forms its own team; a winged warrior and a psion that all communicate telepathically and are capable of shattering Antimagic/Null Psionics fields whenever they fall out of communication.
Primary Mantles: Energy, Mental Power
Secondary Mantles: Life, Magic
Feat Mantles: Pain and Suffering

Give it a read, nice stuff :smallsmile:

EDIT: Curse you, forum shinobi!!!

riddles
2009-07-01, 11:57 AM
i'm playing one at the moment. on it's own it's a pretty strong class and it multiclasses well (i went ranger 1/ardent 5/slayer 10/ardent 4)

you don't have to worry too much about power points, like you do with a psychic warrior, though you do lack a bit for feats and you get a lot of unique powers that you wouldn't get as a psywar (dimension hop is currently one of my favourite spells).

it's well worth a try, even running 1-20. though i am really interested in trying a monk2/ardent 18 with the tashalatora feat. makes hustle incredible with your really high movement and you can flurry with good buffs.

Draz74
2009-07-01, 12:46 PM
It's really everything the Cleric should have been: reasonably tough for melee (if it buffs itself), but not able to outshine the Fighter. Still Wisdom-based. Able to hold both a weapon and a heavy shield and still use its magic (unlike the Cleric, who has to use a hand for his holy symbol, unless he gets his shield or armor or something made into a holy symbol; in my experience most groups just handwave this problem away). A full caster/manifester type, but without the "knows all spells on his spell list" problem that makes Clerics automatically more powerful anytime a new splatbook is released. And whereas the Cleric's Domains only marginally affect his power, the Ardent's Mantles have a huge influence, and mean that two Ardents with different mantles can play very differently.

Basically, it's the best-designed caster-type class in the game. Even the Dragonfire Adept isn't quite as nifty, because it's hard for different DFAs to have a huge amount of variety between themselves.

erikun
2009-07-01, 07:49 PM
Once thing to note: you need the Life Mantle to provide any healing, so you may want to think twice before displacing the cleric. You actually choose powers from the Mantle lists, rather than knowing them all automatically.

Also, what Draz said. Then again, I consider most Psionic classes as improved versions of their Core counterparts, so perhaps I'm biased. :smalltongue:

Draz74
2009-07-02, 01:59 AM
Once thing to note: you need the Life Mantle to provide any healing, so you may want to think twice before displacing the cleric. You actually choose powers from the Mantle lists, rather than knowing them all automatically.

Well, and that brings up a different issue. It's not exactly hard to take the Life Mantle early.

However, the Life Mantle, and all of its powers below 6th level, are terrible. Especially the Level 1 "healing" power, Touch of Health. So in early levels, the Ardent has trouble being a real healer. Taking the Magic Mantle (to gain UMD as a class skill) and UMDing Wands of Lesser Vigor is the easy solution.

My current Ardent build uses a more creative method too: an Incarnum race (Azurin), the Shape Soulmeld (lifebond vestments) feat, the Vigor power, and eventually the Psycarnum Infusion feat. This all lets him heal the party at a very efficient rate using his PP, but also very slowly, usually not practical mid-combat.