[3.5] Sun-Themed Arcane PrC (Need Help)

[Mr.Moron]

I had the idea recently for a sun-themed arcane spellcaster that draws on divine inspiration, without strictly gaining any divine casting abilties. It doesn't have a name yet as I'm horrible with names and usually save them for last. However, the lack of a name isn't the real problem. I'm just plain stuck on how to implement it.

I'm really only looking for mechanical help here, as I know what I want to do with the fluff.

The entry requirements keep feeling off and I just can't find the right mix of abilties vs Caster Level loss. I certainly don't want to go over 1 CL loss with this so keeping it trim is better than trying to load it up and then offsetting it with CL loss. Ideally I'd like no CL loss while keeping the themes intact but I realize that might not be possible.

Below is my most recent attempt at getting this to work. Currently I'm only happy with the "Sun Specialist" feature.I like the idea of daily powers that modify spells but I'm not satisfied with the way I've done it here.

So I'm looking for any suggestions on what to add, subtract and how to change what's already there. I'm open to anything that makes it work as a 0-1 CL loss class, that maintains the Light/Fire theme even if it's totally different from what I have already.

Requirements:
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd-Level Arcane Spells
Alignment: Any Good
Skills: Diplomacy 4 Ranks, Knowledge[Religion] 8 Ranks, Knowledge[The Planes] 8 Ranks, Knowledge[Arcana] 8 Ranks
Feats: Consecrate Spell, Energy Substitution[Fire]
Special: Cannot have Evocation as a Barred School
Special: Must be able to cast at least 2 Spells with the [Fire] descriptor and 2 with the [Light] descriptor.
Special: Must worship a deity that grants Access to the Sun Domain.


Needs a Name
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Dedicated Casting, Sun Specialist, Radiant Flames 1/Day|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Solar Study|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Radiant Power +1|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Solar Study|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

5th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+4|Radiant Flames 2/Day|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Solar Study|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Radiant Power +2|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

8th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Solar Study|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Radiant Flames 3/Day|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Sun's Blessing|+1 level of existing Arcane spellcasting class [/table]

Dedicated Casting(Ex)
Starting at 1st level you lose the ability to cast or learn any spells with the [Darkness] or [Evil] descriptors.

Additionally, you may no longer cast spells with energy descriptors other than [Fire], ([Acid],[Cold],[Electricity],[Sonic]). Though you may still learn them and cast them as [Fire] spells with the energy substitution feat.

Sun Specialist(Ex)
If you normally prepare spells, you can prepare and cast one fewer spell per spell level per day. You gain the ability to prepare and cast two additional spells per day that must have the [Fire],[Light] or [Good] descriptors.

If you don't need to prepare spells, you choose two spells with the [Fire], [Light] or [Good] descriptors as additional spells known each time you attain a new level of spells. This does not count against your normal limit of spells known, however your limited of spells known per level is 1 lower than usual.

Solar Study(Ex)
At 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th level your ability to cast [Fire],[Light] & [Good] spells expands.

You may select two spells with the [Light], [Fire] or [Good] descriptors from any class list, and add them to your class list. You may use spell trigger & spell completion items of these spells so long as they are of the correct type. You don't automatically gain knowledge of the spells, however you may select them as spells known or add them any time you would normally be able to do so (including the level at which you add them to your class list with this feature).

NOTE: In the case where a spell can be cast with multiple descriptors (such as a Summon Monster spell) you may add it to your class list but are only able to cast the versions with the [Good],[Light] or [Fire] descriptors.

Radiant Power(Ex)
Starting at the 3rd level your caster level for all spells with the [Fire], [Light] or [Good] descriptors is increased by 1, at 7th level it increases to 2 higher.

Radiant Flames(Ex)
Starting at 1st level once per day you may convert a spell with the [Fire] descriptor to which you have applied the Consecrated Spell feat into a Radiant Flame spell. Casting a Radiant Flame spell requires you to have your deity's holy symbol as an additional Arcane Focus.

It gains the [Light] descriptor and any target damaged by it must make a will save (same DC as the spell) or be blinded for 1 round per spell level. Additionally, the spell deals all Divine Damage and thus is not subject to energy resistance or immunity. Radiant Flames never harm good creatures, or any non-evil creatures that you consider an ally.

You may use Radiant Flames once more per day at the 5th and 9th levels.

Sun's Blessing(Ex)
Starting at 10th level, you may now apply the Consecrate Spell feat to your spells with the [Fire],[Light] or [Good] descriptors with no adjustment to the spell's level or casting time.

[Cieyrin]

Forsake the Shadows seems overly restrictive for what it does. I'd just give the additional spells to your spell list. Sun Specialist is a specialized version of the PHB 2 or Complete Mage's (don't recall which and I can't check atm ~_~) Focused Specialist alternate class ability, so it's not so bad, at least for the prepared caster. For a spontaneous caster, extra spell slots may be too much, since they tend to have plenty, anyways. Solar Power seems especially powerful, particularly Flaming Spell. The table and the description don't correspond on when you get the abilities, however.

For the requirements, requiring Energy Substitution(Fire) instead of Spell Focus(Good), given how few [Fire] and [Light] spells also necessarily have the [Good] descriptor, especially for Arcane casters.

Finally, for a capstone, continuing Solar Power to allow for a full power Consecrated Spell, where all damage is divine, or possibly even an Energy Admixture(Divine), in which you get full divine power on top of normal damage. The second version would probably require 2 uses of Solar Power. Now that I think about it, maybe requiring the spell to have either the [Fire] or [Light] descriptor.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[Mr.Moron]

The table and the description don't correspond on when you get the abilities, however.


I'll withhold commenting on the rest, simply because I'm tired and will need to time digest. This however is likely a result of me not keeping up with all the numerous changes I've been making to it over the past few days. For now, assume that table trumps text in terms when gains come. As I generally update that first, before fixing my text.

[DracoDei]

If "Forsake the Shadows does more harm than good, then couldn't that be seen as just a balancing factor to allow the class to have 9/10 caster progression?

[Mr.Moron]

not really relevant anymore. Spoiler'd to save space in the therad


Sun Specialist is a specialized version of the PHB 2 or Complete Mage's (don't recall which and I can't check atm ~_~) Focused Specialist alternate class ability, so it's not so bad, at least for the prepared caster. For a spontaneous caster, extra spell slots may be too much, since they tend to have plenty, anyways.


You're right, Complete Mage. I was actually intentionally basing it off that ability. I figured [Fire] & [Light] spells are a more narrow focus than a whole school. Since focused specialist is generally thought of as a pretty even break for everything except is conjuration. I was hoping this feature was sort of power-neutral .

That said, it is a bit funny on spontaneous casters. Perhaps giving them a another spell known per level, but only if it's [Fire] or [Light], without alerting their spells/day?



Solar Power seems especially powerful, particularly Flaming Spell. The table and the description don't correspond on when you get the abilities, however.

Really? I figured Flaming Spell for the weakest of them all, I'm far from attached to it so I'll probably remove it.



For the requirements, requiring Energy Substitution(Fire) instead of Spell Focus(Good), given how few [Fire] and [Light] spells also necessarily have the [Good] descriptor, especially for Arcane casters.

Agreed.



Finally, for a capstone, continuing Solar Power to allow for a full power Consecrated Spell, where all damage is divine, or possibly even an Energy Admixture(Divine), in which you get full divine power on top of normal damage. The second version would probably require 2 uses of Solar Power. Now that I think about it, maybe requiring the spell to have either the [Fire] or [Light] descriptor.




If "Forsake the Shadows does more harm than good, then couldn't that be seen as just a balancing factor to allow the class to have 9/10 caster progression?

This was the intent. Not specifically to allow it to be 9/10, but to just allow room for more features at any CL loss. Ideally I want to get this to a full-progression class. So I'm currently looking at removing flaming spell, and increasing the drawbacks on Forsake the Shadows.

EDIT: I removed on advancement of Radiant Power, and Increased the Limitations granted by forsake the shadows. I've moved the additional spells off to the side for now, until I figure how to reincorporate them.

I've decided I really want to aim for the no CL loss. The question is, from it's current form what does it need to achieve that?


EDIT(Again): If only so I can use the name, I've decided I want to capstone to be a relatively strong (Sp) ability, called Solar Flare. Something that functions in vein Sunbeam in that it's particular strong against undead (maybe outsiders too?)

Nevermind that. It's silly. try to get this to a point where everything but the capstone is done and see how what it feels like it needs.

[deuxhero]

Odd, a PRC that is otherwise perfect for a follower of Pelor is barred from it by the any good and no evil spells requirements...

[Mr.Moron]

Odd, a PRC that is otherwise perfect for a follower of Pelor is barred from it by the any good and no evil spells requirements...

Heh. Oh well.

Pelor being evil aside...


Major changes. I'm feeling much better about this version. But I'm not entirely sure it's "there". Anyone have any thoughts?

[DracoDei]

There must be some sort of inside joke here I am missing... Pelor is Neutral Good by RAW, and I haven't HEARD of any campaigns that change that (then again I almost never leave Homebrew).

[Mr.Moron]

There must be some sort of inside joke here I am missing... Pelor is Neutral Good by RAW, and I haven't HEARD of any campaigns that change that (then again I almost never leave Homebrew).

It's a joke from some thread over at the wizards board or something. I recall hearing it there or so some some such. Has nothing to do with this class though.

[Cieyrin]

Sun Specialist is definitely improved for spontaneous casters. More spells known is always good, even with the focused. It works, I think. I worry that perhaps combined with Sun Study that they may run out of spells of the appropriate type, as that is 25 spells known of those types. The 5 from Sun Study may not be an issue, on second thought, as you can take 'em off of the Druid or Cleric lists. I guess I'm just not familiar enough with the current dearth of Fire and Light arcane spells.

Radiant Flames seems balanced. Irresistable damage plus blinding is pretty bad ass.

All your spells Consencrated at no additional cost in spell slots or casting time as a capstone is actually halfway decent. Half irresistable damage is definitely a plus in my book, especially for spontaneous casters, who don't take longer to modify their spells.

All in all, it seems to have much improved from its last incarnation. Good work! :smallbiggrin:

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[Mr.Moron]

Sun Specialist is definitely improved for spontaneous casters. More spells known is always good, even with the focused. It works, I think. I worry that perhaps combined with Sun Study that they may run out of spells of the appropriate type, as that is 25 spells known of those types. The 5 from Sun Study may not be an issue, on second thought, as you can take 'em off of the Druid or Cleric lists. I guess I'm just not familiar enough with the current dearth of Fire and Light arcane spells.

Sun Study doesn't strictly make them spells known. It only puts them on your class list so you can use wands/scrolls and take them as spells known when you'd otherwise be entitled. I'll have to clarify that.

Does that change your opinion?

Also, i've also expanded it to [Good] spells as to emphasize the alignment aim. This opens up a few interesting choices on other class lists for example, some Paladin Spells, and the Planar Ally Line.




All in all, it seems to have much improved from its last incarnation. Good work! :smallbiggrin:


I'm getting happier with it. I'm not sure it's "There", yet however I'm getting pretty happy with it.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

It's a joke from some thread over at the wizards board or something. I recall hearing it there or so some some such. Has nothing to do with this class though.

The thread Pelor, the Burning Hate (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=846926) uses Pelorian fluff in the rulebooks and novels to "prove" that Pelor is actually evil.