10 Gold Pieces

[Optimystik]

With all the speculation on Belkar's fate, it took a while to occur to me that Roy made a 10 gold pieces bet with Haley before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0187.html)

This is a good sign! The odds may not be in Roy's favor, but his track record is. :smallbiggrin:

I wonder if she paid him?

[Andore Mordre]

Here too. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html)

And here, not really. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html)

[y2kyle89]

Lost in this one though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html)

[veti]

The 10 g.p. bet is an old running joke, and not just between Roy and Haley.

Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html) another one (although nobody can understand it...).

[Andore Mordre]

The 10 g.p. bet is an old running joke, and not just between Roy and Haley.

Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html) another one (although nobody can understand it...).

She lost that one, though.

[Bibliomancer]

Given what she says here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html), I doubt Haley ever pays up in those bets with Roy.

[Deepkicker]

That's totally an old running joke. And I got beautiful butterflies of nostalgia in my stomach when I read it in this strip.

[David Argall]

DCF Roy has to pay up on p. 23a

[The Extinguisher]

Don't forget with the treasure (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0187.html)

[Berserk Monk]

The 10 g.p. bet is an old running joke, and not just between Roy and Haley.

Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html) another one (although nobody can understand it...).

This kind of reminds me of a running joke used in one of my old D&D campaigns. Whenever there was a dangerous task that need to be done - scouting ahead, opening a potentially trapped door - someone would ask "Who wants to make a copper piece?"

[Lupy]

I too felt a stir of nostalgia at this strip. I sure hope Roy wins this one though. :smalltongue:

[Berserk Monk]

I too felt a stir of nostalgia at this strip. I sure hope Roy wins this one though. :smalltongue:

I agree with the nostalgia feeling, but why would you want it over in only 7 in-comic weeks?

[Ancalagon]

I agree with the nostalgia feeling, but why would you want it over in only 7 in-comic weeks?

Because a good story needs an ending.

Apart from that: What difference does it make if like 2 or 3 (or whatever) RL years with x comics span over 7 ingame weeks or 7 ingame years? None, as far I can tell...

[abishur]

Because a good story needs an ending.


To be fair, I'm fairly confident that Rich already has the ending of the comic set up (as much as he sets up any upcoming story line at least :smallbiggrin:). The seven week time line is most likely revolving around a confrontation at the next gate (foreshadowed to be Girard's (or however it's spelled) but I could see Xy's phylactery passing within a thousand feet of it and that somehow fulfilling this prophecy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html), while his real body went off to Kraagor's).

All of which is to say, Belkar will, in all probability, die well before the strip is over, but that doesn't mean Rich doesn't already have an ending in store for the Sticks :smalltongue:

[Ancalagon]

To be fair, I'm fairly confident that Rich already has the ending of the comic set up

You do not have to be "fairly" confident. You can "know". Since he stated several times he has the story and the key-points already planned. And I think "seven ingame weeks" actually means the actual end of the story...

Belkar will die, that's not even a question to me.

[Andore Mordre]

To be fair, I'm fairly confident that Rich already has the ending of the comic set up (as much as he sets up any upcoming story line at least :smallbiggrin:).

He's said before in the commentaries of the printed books, he's had the whole story "set up" since early in the comic...first appearance of the MitD, I think.

EDIT? Dangit, didn't read carefully enough, I guess this counts as a Ninja'd?

Personally, I think Belkar will be "unmade" by the Snarl at Girard's, then everyone races to the final gate.

[abishur]

He's said before in the commentaries of the printed books, he's had the whole story "set up" since early in the comic...first appearance of the MitD, I think.

EDIT? Dangit, didn't read carefully enough, I guess this counts as a Ninja'd?

Personally, I think Belkar will be "unmade" by the Snarl at Girard's, then everyone races to the final gate.

Yes, I know he said it, I was just trying to say so politely and without any commentary spoilers :smallbiggrin:

My bet for Belkar's death


V get's taken over by the fiends. V tries to kill Roy. Belkar makes a saving throw and takes the hit for Roy. V's spell (perhaps one he doesn't usually have thanks to the influence of the fiends) causes Belkar's soul to be lost/trapped such that he can't be rezzed


But as for it being 7 weeks to the end (comic weeks, of course) it's unlikely. Roy is doing an estimate based on confronting Xy at the next gate. You don't write a story with 5 gates and have only 4 show up in the story. Moreover, you don't mention that the snarl is more deadly to a god than to a mortal of the same level without having the PCs eventually fight him. I bet you 10 GP that 7 weeks is just the max amount of life Belkar has left :smallwink:

[Kaytara]

Wow. I hadn't realised the ten gold jokes were actually quite that numerous. Awesome. :)

[Xapi]

Yes, I know he said it, I was just trying to say so politely and without any commentary spoilers :smallbiggrin:

My bet for Belkar's death


V get's taken over by the fiends. V tries to kill Roy. Belkar makes a saving throw and takes the hit for Roy. V's spell (perhaps one he doesn't usually have thanks to the influence of the fiends) causes Belkar's soul to be lost/trapped such that he can't be rezzed



Given the tone in Roy's comments in the last strip (666, if you're reading this in the future), I think if Belkar were to die at this point, they wouldn't make the effort of raising him back.

[veti]

Re-reading, the bet is actually pretty ambiguous.

"Do you think we can really end this whole thing - beat Xykon and the goblins in just seven weeks?"

But who's to say that merely "beating Xykon and the goblins" will actually "end this whole thing"? After all, they've already "beaten" him once without ending anything. More:

How many stories are there where the guy you thought was the Big Boss, turns out to be just an underling or pawn for someone else? Maybe Redcloak is manipulating Xykon much more subtly than we've so far given him credit for. Or maybe the Snarl itself will somehow take centre stage as an enemy.

[Mauve Shirt]

Yeah, even if they stop Xykon and Redcloak from seizing the gates, are they going to try to stop the snarl too, like the Order of the Scribble before them?

[Andore Mordre]

Re-reading, the bet is actually pretty ambiguous.

"Do you think we can really end this whole thing - beat Xykon and the goblins in just seven weeks?"

But who's to say that merely "beating Xykon and the goblins" will actually "end this whole thing"? After all, they've already "beaten" him once without ending anything. More:

How many stories are there where the guy you thought was the Big Boss, turns out to be just an underling or pawn for someone else? Maybe Redcloak is manipulating Xykon much more subtly than we've so far given him credit for. Or maybe the Snarl itself will somehow take centre stage as an enemy.

THANK YOU.
But let's not forget the Linear Guild as well, since Nale wants to control the gates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html). They may already be on their way to do that now... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html)


Yeah, even if they stop Xykon and Redcloak from seizing the gates, are they going to try to stop the snarl too, like the Order of the Scribble before them?

Again, THANK YOU.
I've been thinking about posting a theory that maybe they will go inside the snarl's prison and maybe try to untangle it or something. Maybe.

[abishur]

Given the tone in Roy's comments in the last strip (666, if you're reading this in the future), I think if Belkar were to die at this point, they wouldn't make the effort of raising him back.

Oh, I agree at that statement. I was attempting to imply that the manner in which I suspect Belkar will die would change their minds. But now that I think about it, Roy's gone down the road of abandoning a teammate and we have seen him stick up for Belkar in the past. I really get the feeling that Roy is more convinced in the absolutism of the Oracle's prediction. "Belkar will draw his last breath - ever." And even if for some... strangely out of character reason Roy choose not to rez ANY member of the Stick (even the Belkster) Elan would definitely choose to rez him, V seems like he would rez him (Belkar seems to be the annoying little brother to V), and Durkon would do it simply out of dwarven duty. The only one who I suspect *MIGHT* choose not to rez him is Haley.

[Xapi]

Oh, I agree at that statement. I was attempting to imply that the manner in which I suspect Belkar will die would change their minds. But now that I think about it, Roy's gone down the road of abandoning a teammate and we have seen him stick up for Belkar in the past. I really get the feeling that Roy is more convinced in the absolutism of the Oracle's prediction. "Belkar will draw his last breath - ever." And even if for some... strangely out of character reason Roy choose not to rez ANY member of the Stick (even the Belkster) Elan would definitely choose to rez him, V seems like he would rez him (Belkar seems to be the annoying little brother to V), and Durkon would do it simply out of dwarven duty. The only one who I suspect *MIGHT* choose not to rez him is Haley.

Not resurrecting a fallen is not the same as abandoning, and Roy is the one calling the shots (mostly).

I do agree that it might generate some friction.

[Ancalagon]

strangely out of character reason Roy choose not to rez ANY member of the Stick (even the Belkster)

Roy does not know what to do with Belkar. He knows that Belkar is evil as hell and utterly irredeemable, but he cannot jail him since Belkar would break out again and cause havoc and murder (he says so to the deva in his heavenly judgement) and he also does not want to become Balkar's judge and executioner.
As long as Belkar lives, he'll try to use his violence to defeat an even bigger evil. Should Belkar die, Roy will say "He deserved this" and let him rot. He'll probably bury him when the time and circumstances allow it.


Elan would definitely choose to rez him

No. Elan also knows that Balkar is evil. He'd say "Awww, a member of the order died... but it's probably better for anyone else that way".


V seems like he would rez him (Belkar seems to be the annoying little brother to V)

Do you read the same comic as I do? I doubt Vaarsuvius would even blink should Belkar die.


and Durkon would do it simply out of dwarven duty.

No, since Durkon is very Lawful Good, not lawful neutral or whatever. He'd nod about the well deserved ending for Belkar, then he'd speak a prayer over Belkar's grave. Companion, long travelled together blabla, but also that "hopefully, you stay dead".
The point were Durkon would resurrect Belkar has been passed, imo.


The only one who I suspect *MIGHT* choose not to rez him is Haley.

Yeah. Just replace the "I suspect *MIGHT* chose" with "will" and cut the "to" after your "not". If we suspect things: I suspect Haley might not even attend the funeral rites done by Roy and Durkon out of a sense of duty and lawfulness (should those happen).

[abishur]

No. Elan also knows that Balkar is evil. He'd say "Awww, a member of the order died... but it's probably better for anyone else that way".

Do you read the same comic as I do? I doubt Vaarsuvius would even blink should Belkar die.

No, since Durkon is very Lawful Good, not lawful neutral or whatever. He'd nod about the well deserved ending for Belkar, then he'd speak a prayer over Belkar's grave. Companion, long travelled together blabla, but also that "hopefully, you stay dead".
The point were Durkon would resurrect Belkar has been passed, imo.

Yeah. Just replace the "I suspect *MIGHT* chose" with "will" and cut the "to" after your "not". If we suspect things: I suspect Haley might not even attend the funeral rites done by Roy and Durkon out of a sense of duty and lawfulness (should those happen).

That's a very odd view of the OotS (though I'm sure you think the same about me :smallwink:), especially in light of all the character development they've gone through recently.

Not rezzing IS the same as abandonment. Or so the reactions by the OotS to Roy's death would seem to indicate. And yes, I realize there's a difference between your LG leader, and your albatross CE halfing, ranger, barbarian, but at the time of the trial there is a clear sign by all involved that they would rez Belkar in the event that he died. Since that time only Roy and Haley have had any indication that Belkar has become more trouble than he's worth, and Haley doesn't even know the full truth of the matter (she didn't exactly seem to be picking up on the subtext Roy was throwing out there).

Elan would never be that glib about anyone's death, EVER. Therkla was a secondary character who he spent all of 10 minutes with over the entire course of knowing her. Yet he wept for her all the same. Belkar and Elan have a pretty nice friendship (maybe it's cause they're both chaotic? I dunno). How could Elan possibly be so glib about the death of Belkar?

V not caring would negate all that hardcore character development she just went through. In a world where you have the ability to bring a character back and choose not to, it's the same as being in a world where you have a friend stuck behind enemy lines and choose not to go get him.

Why would Durkon have any different feelings about Belkar than he did at the trial (which I assume is before "the point were Durkon would resurrect Belkar has been passed") Durkon spent no time with Belkar that would change his opinion of him. He wasn't in Azure, he didn't deal with sick Belkar. If anything, now that Belkar is playing the game, Durkon will find him more agreeable.

"and cut the "to" after your "not"" ... "choose not rez him is Haley. " that sentence makes no sense... I'm not sure where you were trying to go with that.

[Ancalagon]

That's a very odd view of the OotS especially in light of all the character development they've gone through recently.

I fail to see what that has to do with Belkar... in fact, I think the "development" they went through made them all stronger, more determined in knowing "who they are".
That would prevent them from bringing Belkar back out of a crude and wrong sense of comradeship or "duty" that does not really exist for an egomaniac, psychic murderer as Belkar is.


And yes, I realize there's a difference between your LG leader, and your albatross CE halfing, ranger, barbarian, but at the time of the trial there is a clear sign by all involved that they would rez Belkar in the event that he died.

We only have Belkar's opinion on that, we do not know what "actually would have happend". And this was the moment I meant, that has passed.
"Back then" they would, I think, have resurrected him and I doubt they'd still do it.


Elan would never be that glib about anyone's death, EVER. Therkla was a secondary character who he spent all of 10 minutes with over the entire course of knowing her. Yet he wept for her all the same. Belkar and Elan have a pretty nice friendship (maybe it's cause they're both chaotic? I dunno). How could Elan possibly be so glib about the death of Belkar?

The "Awww..." would probably include some crying, but in the end, he'd come to the conclusion Belkar is better left where he is. I'd also not overestimate their "friendship". So far I have seen not many clues of a "real friendship". Elan relates to Belkar as he does to everyone: In an innocent, friendly way. But, sorry to shoot your theory down, check Elans reaction in this comic:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html
Friendship, you say? Wrong, I say. Elan is very, very aware what a nasty, evil creature Belkar is.


V not caring would negate all that hardcore character development she just went through.

What character development? So far we have seen the beginning of the lectures Vaarsuvius got. But I fail to see how that relates to "bringing back Belkar". In regard to the "good relationship" from Vaarsuvius to Belkar, I need to remind you about "the incident" and that Vaarsuvius rather wanted to be "hated" than "loved". The elf did a few nasty things to Belkar to accomplish that.
I fear you cannot really expect "Helping Belkar to come back to this plane" in this regard.


In a world where you have the ability to bring a character back and choose not to, it's the same as being in a world where you have a friend stuck behind enemy lines and choose not to go get him.

The point here is the word "friend". I doubt anyone in the order is a "friend" of Belkar (in both directions, in fact, most even know that he's a horrid, little monster.


Why would Durkon have any different feelings about Belkar than he did at the trial (which I assume is before "the point were Durkon would resurrect Belkar has been passed") Durkon spent no time with Belkar that would change his opinion of him. He wasn't in Azure, he didn't deal with sick Belkar. If anything, now that Belkar is playing the game, Durkon will find him more agreeable.

As I said, I am not sure if they actually would have brought him back on that occasion. But IF they would have decided for that back then, they surely will not do that now. Once Roy tells Durkon what he knows about Belkar, the issue will be off the table for a good, lawful cleric as our favourite dwarf.

[Kish]

And yes, I realize there's a difference between your LG leader, and your albatross CE halfing, ranger, barbarian, but at the time of the trial there is a clear sign by all involved that they would rez Belkar in the event that he died.
No, there wasn't. There was a clear sign by Belkar that he assumed Durkon would resurrect him if he died; it's not the same thing (and he forgot all about the diamonds). That's like saying that (OtOoPCs spoiler)
Belkar's indignant insistence that he didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't have been locked up meant he was actually innocent when he was imprisoned.

Now, all the Order did rally to defend him from Miko. How much that had to do with Belkar, and how much it had to do with Miko, perhaps we'll never know. What we do know, if that Roy is apparently happy at the prospect of Belkar dying and has no plans to ever resurrect him, now. I agree with you that this is a change with a limited amount of reason for there to be a change, but since it always irked me some that the ostensibly good members of the Order didn't take more steps to prevent Belkar's murders, I consider it a change from wrong to right rather than vice versa.

[Teddy]

Perhaps this comic can add some perspective to things: #165 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html)

Their reactions could be a bit artificial, but they shouldn't be that artificial.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Lost in this one though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html)

Every time Roy made a bet on-screen, and Haley accepted it, Roy won.

[abishur]

I fail to see what that has to do with Belkar... in fact, I think the "development" they went through made them all stronger, more determined in knowing "who they are".
That would prevent them from bringing Belkar back out of a crude and wrong sense of comradeship or "duty" that does not really exist for an egomaniac, psychic murderer as Belkar is.



We only have Belkar's opinion on that, we do not know what "actually would have happend". And this was the moment I meant, that has passed.
"Back then" they would, I think, have resurrected him and I doubt they'd still do it.



The "Awww..." would probably include some crying, but in the end, he'd come to the conclusion Belkar is better left where he is. I'd also not overestimate their "friendship". So far I have seen not many clues of a "real friendship". Elan relates to Belkar as he does to everyone: In an innocent, friendly way. But, sorry to shoot your theory down, check Elans reaction in this comic:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html
Friendship, you say? Wrong, I say. Elan is very, very aware what a nasty, evil creature Belkar is.



What character development? So far we have seen the beginning of the lectures Vaarsuvius got. But I fail to see how that relates to "bringing back Belkar". In regard to the "good relationship" from Vaarsuvius to Belkar, I need to remind you about "the incident" and that Vaarsuvius rather wanted to be "hated" than "loved". The elf did a few nasty things to Belkar to accomplish that.
I fear you cannot really expect "Helping Belkar to come back to this plane" in this regard.



The point here is the word "friend". I doubt anyone in the order is a "friend" of Belkar (in both directions, in fact, most even know that he's a horrid, little monster.



As I said, I am not sure if they actually would have brought him back on that occasion. But IF they would have decided for that back then, they surely will not do that now. Once Roy tells Durkon what he knows about Belkar, the issue will be off the table for a good, lawful cleric as our favourite dwarf.

Rich may have had Elan react in a comedic fashion, but that hardly implies that they're not friends. And we've seen for a fact that Belkar likes Elan's company (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html).

And no, we don't just see Belkar's belief that they will raise him. We see V making a clear declaration that he prefers Belkar over Miko (not a big thing, I know) to the point that she's ready to fight Miko off with ever bit of her powers. You really expect me to believe that someone would fight to protect someone else from death and then go, "eh, they're dead so whatever"? I'm well aware of "the incident" and V's attempt to get back to being "hated" but how does V describe it latter? As juvenile pranks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html). That's a far cry from acts of hatred. It is, as I said before, more like an older sister dealing with an annoying younger brother.

And what do you mean "what character development?" The development that had him go back for O-Chul rather than safely escaping by herself. The decision to place others over her own welfare when she has no more magic left at her disposal. The development displayed by her conversation with Durkon in the most recent (667) comic. That Character development that would be negated by leaving ANY member of the party behind to death.

Durkon is a loyal guy to those around him. Loyal to the point where

otOoPC spoiler

he would go into a suicide mission to protect those he was with lest he risk them being overrun and killed


Now, let's be honest, I admit that if Roy were to slam down the rest of them (minus Haley who most likely is already on that side of the argument) then Durkon, and the rest, would follow his decision but it would create some pretty tense friction (much like the Order of the Scribble had after their barbarian died). However, for Roy to just abandon Belkar like that would kinda undo the very first bit of Character development (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html) that was done in this comic. You don't abandon someone just because they annoy you or you don't like them.

Besides, look at 666 again, we're given no indication that Roy's statement implies that he wouldn't rez him if possible. All we're shown is that Roy is giving a countdown to the last breath ever prophecy.

Belkar would have to turn on the Stick in order for them to not rez him after he died.

It doesn't matter what you may or may not believe about the personalities of the individual characters, the fact of the matter is you don't kill of one of the PCs and not have them rezzed unless they pull a Judas, or create a situation in which the Party is simply unable to rez him.


Perhaps this comic can add some perspective to things: #165 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0165.html)

Their reactions could be a bit artificial, but they shouldn't be that artificial.

Very nice catch Teddy!

[Kish]

It doesn't matter what you may or may not believe about the personalities of the individual characters, the fact of the matter is you don't kill of one of the PCs and not have them rezzed unless they pull a Judas, or create a situation in which the Party is simply unable to rez him.
That is not "the fact of the matter"; that is your opinion.

Does Roy say "I wouldn't want to resurrect Belkar" in those words? No. Does Roy act generally pleased about Belkar's impending demise (and the fact that, regardless of his wishes in the matter, it will not be reversed)? Yes. Anything we could say beyond that is speculation.