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Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 12:58 AM
Just curious if there are any bludgeoning weapons that have reach. I'm sure there's got to be. I'm also wondering if there is a bludgeoning equivalent to the Spiked Chain, that can hit adjacent and the next square?

Teron
2009-07-02, 01:07 AM
I suppose you could use a plain old spikeless chain to deal bludgeoning damage, though it might warrant a reduction in damage. Come to think of it, it's kind of odd that the spiked chain doesn't deal both types of damage like a morningstar. Beyond that, there might be something in the issue of Dragon that had stats for a bunch of polearms. I think there was some kind of long staff...

EDIT: It's issue #331.

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 01:09 AM
Well that makes sense. Does anyone know if there are stats somewhere for just a chain?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-02, 01:11 AM
In OA there's a basic 'chain' weapon, described as having weighted ends. It deals 1d6 bludgeoning base damage as a two-handed exotic weapon. You can choose to use it as a double weapon, or as a reach weapon with which you can also strike adjacent foes. It has the same tripping and disarming qualities of a spiked chain, and may as well be identical except for dealing bludgeoning damage and lower base damage.

arguskos
2009-07-02, 01:31 AM
Ramhammer, from the Planar Handbook. Exotic weapon, does d10 damage with a x2 crit. It does bludgeoning and has reach. Can be used to make bull rush attacks from reach.

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 01:34 AM
Can the ramhammer also attack adjacent creatures?

arguskos
2009-07-02, 01:39 AM
No, it's a traditional reach weapon, such as the ranseur. However, 5-foot steps are quite useful for this.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-02, 01:49 AM
Armor spikes can threaten adjacent squares, and is an easy way to get around the drawback of using a reach weapon.

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 02:00 AM
I think I like the idea of the basic chain more than. I'm a fan of Shapechanging into the form of a Titan lately, and with Greater Mighty Wallop on the chain and Heroics myself some decent weapon feats, much fun shall ensue with the reach craziness! I'm hearing: Knockdown, Improved Trip, Cleave, and Great Cleave. I never gave much thought to the Cleave feats before, but now that I can pound out over 250 damage/hit it just sounds like fun.

BraveSirKevin
2009-07-02, 02:01 AM
AD&D had a much more comprehensive list of pole-arms, including the real-word Lucerne Hammer

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~ssbohe/Pole/sword_pole_lucerne.JPG

Stats would be
Prof: +2
Damage: 2d4
Range: -
Price:25gp
Weight 12lbs
Group: Hammer, Polearm
Properties: Reach

Naturally, like the halberd, it was designed for use in formations and it's primary purpose was for unhorsing cavalry, and not really ideal for bashing up goblins in a claustrophobic dungeon.

Coidzor
2009-07-02, 02:06 AM
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php The equipment index has a section on polearms if you're involving DnD 3.5.

Lucerne Hammer: B or P. 2d4 20/x4 crit. 10' reach.

Ankus: B 2d4 20/x2 crit. 10' reach. Tripping. Exotic.

Goad: B or P. B is subdual. P is lethal 2d4. 10' reach. Exotic.

Longstaff: B 1d6/1d6. Can't be flanked while wielding. 20/x2 crit. I think has reach if not used as a double weapon. Exotic.

Sasumata: 1d4 B 20/x2. Grapple, Reach 10', Subdual. Exotic.

Pincer Staff: 1d10. Exotic. Grapple. Reach 10' Bashing.

Dragon Chain: As spiked chain but 19-20/x2 crit. 1d6 Bashing. Can grapple and if a creature is grappled can constrict for 1d8 +1.5 str damage. Tripping. Exotic.

Chain: 1d6 bashing. exotic. Reach 10' and adjacent or double weapon.

Duom: Martial. Reach 10' and threaten adjacent. 1d8 Piercing, 20/x3 crit.

arguskos
2009-07-02, 02:11 AM
AD&D had a much more comprehensive list of pole-arms, including the real-word Lucerne Hammer
Do note that 3.X also has stats for the Lucerne Hammer, but it's not a bludgeoning weapon, as was requested.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-02, 02:17 AM
Lucerne Hammer is in Dragon Magazine Compendium, too.

There is a 2d4, crit x4, Bludgeoning or Piercing. I use that.

Where is elsewhere described?

BraveSirKevin
2009-07-02, 02:23 AM
I just updated the stats from the 2nd ed AD&D Player's Handbook. It lists it as a piercing/bludgeoning weapon in there. I agree it's not a blunt weapon though... pretty likely to draw some blood with that :smallsmile:

arguskos
2009-07-02, 02:25 AM
Lucerne Hammer is in Dragon Magazine Compendium, too.

There is a 2d4, crit x4, Bludgeoning or Piercing. I use that.

Where is elsewhere described?
It was originally printed in Arms and Equipment Guide. Dragon Compendium is newer though, and should be used. I didn't recall it was printed there. It's pretty much the best non-chain reach weapon out there then. I'd use that one, Brock Samson.

Hazkali
2009-07-02, 02:39 AM
If you want to use a feat, there is the Short Haft feat from (I think) Complete Warrior. This allows you to attack adjacent squares with a reach weapon, so if you did go along the Lucerne or Ram hammer route, that would cover threatening.

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 02:43 AM
Doesn't Short Haft require you to use a swift action???

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-02, 02:45 AM
Doesn't Short Haft require you to use a swift action???

Yes, it does.

olentu
2009-07-02, 03:11 AM
Well assuming that you do not want to use armor spikes or some other hands free weapon I think the feat that would work if I am remembering it correctly is Shorten Grip.

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 03:24 AM
Crystal Keep says you are correct. But it is a feat from a Dragon Magazine, depending on DMs that may not fly.

SilverSheriff
2009-07-02, 03:41 AM
Over-sized Q-tip.:smallamused:

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-02, 04:34 AM
Yeah, if you have enough to-hit, shorten grip rocks without be OP. It transform any polearm in a Duom.

Coidzor
2009-07-02, 04:52 AM
What's it do mechanically other than the reach and threaten adjacent? -2 to adjacent or on reach or both?

Brock Samson
2009-07-02, 04:59 AM
I think it's only a -2 on adjacent.

Ravens_cry
2009-07-02, 12:03 PM
Over-sized Q-tip.:smallamused:
Also good for cleaning out giant monkey head ears, eh?:smallbiggrin:

Hat-Trick
2009-07-02, 12:08 PM
Short Haft is from PHII. And using a swift action to switch doesn't sound all that bad, really.

Keld Denar
2009-07-02, 12:34 PM
It does when you consider 3 things. A) While "choaked" up on a weapon, you don't threaten at reach. B) If you are using ToB or are a gish, your swift actions are extremely useful for boosts or swift/quickened spells. C) Requires Weapon Focus

Plus, if you are spending a feat on Short Haft, you might as well spend a feat one EWP: Chain, Spiked Chain, or Drow Scorpion Chain (B, P, and S respectively).

Short Haft is BAD.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-02, 12:36 PM
Just curious if there are any bludgeoning weapons that have reach.

Longstaff?

snoopy13a
2009-07-02, 12:38 PM
You could also get the Quick Draw feat and simply drop your reach weapon in favor of a greatsword (two free actions).

Twilight Jack
2009-07-02, 12:41 PM
Short Haft is from PHII. And using a swift action to switch doesn't sound all that bad, really.

The problem is that you only get one swift action a round, on your own turn. So you have to decide whether you're using the polearm as a reach weapon or not during your own turn, and are stuck there until your next one.

So, by way of example, you're fighting with a glaive and have Combat Reflexes and a decent Dex. A wave of baddies charges you, and you use your reach to make three AoOs as they come in. All three of them survive though, so you're using your swift action to shorten the haft and full attack them, finishing all but one off. Two more baddies charge in to replace the dead ones. No AoO for you, since your weapon is currently without reach. And you won't have reach next round either, unless you manage to kill all three of your opponents with your attacks this round.

Alternately, you don't bother with Short Haft. Same situation crops up and in most circumstances you can just take a 5-foot step back every round to reestablish your ability to attack any opponent who's closed the gap with you.

So Short Haft really only has any worthwhile application in situations where it would be impossible or disadvantageous to take a 5-foot step. Situationally, it might be worth taking if your DM is a huge fan of difficult terrain, but it's usually not worth the feat.

Darrin
2009-07-02, 02:49 PM
It does when you consider 3 things. A) While "choaked" up on a weapon, you don't threaten at reach. B) If you are using ToB or are a gish, your swift actions are extremely useful for boosts or swift/quickened spells. C) Requires Weapon Focus


If you're using the Dragon Compendium version of the Lucerne Hammer, then you might as well use the non-lousy version of Short Haft: Shorten Grip.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Shorten_Grip,DC1

Used by hengeyokai glaivelocks everywhere.

Blackjackg
2009-07-02, 02:55 PM
There's also the Meteor Hammer from Dragon #319. It's only 1d4/x2, but it's got a 15' reach and can hit adjacent foes as well (like an extra-long, blunt, spiked chain).

Keld Denar
2009-07-02, 03:19 PM
You think its tough to find a bludgeoning reach weapon, try finding a weapon that is both B and S. None exist. I was trying to design a character that could use both Whirling Blade and Greater Mighty Wallop. About the only think I came up with was the Monk's Spade in Secrets of Sarlona, which is B or S being something akin to the weapons Kirk and Spock dueled with on Vulcan in that old Star Trek episode with a weighted ball on one end and a sharp blade on the other. I don't think it would fly to use the bludgeoning end (augemented by GMW) as part of a Whirling Blade attack (which requires a type S weapon).

Nearly every weapon with 2 types is P and S, or P and B. Almost nothing is S and B.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-02, 10:48 PM
You think its tough to find a bludgeoning reach weapon, try finding a weapon that is both B and S. None exist. I was trying to design a character that could use both Whirling Blade and Greater Mighty Wallop. About the only think I came up with was the Monk's Spade in Secrets of Sarlona, which is B or S being something akin to the weapons Kirk and Spock dueled with on Vulcan in that old Star Trek episode with a weighted ball on one end and a sharp blade on the other. I don't think it would fly to use the bludgeoning end (augemented by GMW) as part of a Whirling Blade attack (which requires a type S weapon).

Nearly every weapon with 2 types is P and S, or P and B. Almost nothing is S and B.Executioner's Mace, Dungeon 135. Martial, 2d6, x3, Bludgeoning and Piercing or Bludgeoning and Slashing. Yeah, martial. Good luck getting a DM to approve it, but it's the only one that came to mind.

Coidzor
2009-07-03, 12:42 AM
Executioner's Mace, Dungeon 135. Martial, 2d6, x3, Bludgeoning and Piercing or Bludgeoning and Slashing. Yeah, martial. Good luck getting a DM to approve it, but it's the only one that came to mind.

Best of all, it's Kyuss approved! :smallbiggrin:

that meteor hammer though... that does sound interesting. Now does it trip too?

Blackjackg
2009-07-03, 08:57 AM
that meteor hammer though... that does sound interesting. Now does it trip too?

Yes. You get the trip thing, a +2 to disarm checks and it counts as a special monk weapon for the purposes of flurry of blows (monks still have to drop an EWP on it, though).

Here's a youtube clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8) explaining and demonstrating the use of the meteor hammer and the rope dart (same rules, but piercing damage instead of bludgeoning).

arguskos
2009-07-03, 04:05 PM
You think its tough to find a bludgeoning reach weapon, try finding a weapon that is both B and S. None exist. I was trying to design a character that could use both Whirling Blade and Greater Mighty Wallop. About the only think I came up with was the Monk's Spade in Secrets of Sarlona, which is B or S being something akin to the weapons Kirk and Spock dueled with on Vulcan in that old Star Trek episode with a weighted ball on one end and a sharp blade on the other. I don't think it would fly to use the bludgeoning end (augemented by GMW) as part of a Whirling Blade attack (which requires a type S weapon).

Nearly every weapon with 2 types is P and S, or P and B. Almost nothing is S and B.
I just found two more exotic S/B weapons for you, from Oriental Adventures. The Kawanaga (1d3/1d3, x2 crit, S/B; reach or double, chosen each round; can use Weap. Finess with it) and the Kusari-Gama (1d6/1d4, x2 crit, S/B; reach or double, chosen each round; can use Weap. Finess with it).

Congratulations Keld, you've got four options for Slashing and Bludgeoning weapons. :smallbiggrin:

hamishspence
2009-07-03, 04:12 PM
Dungeon Magazine 135: Dawn of a New Age; Executioner's Mace

Martial two handed weapon
Cost
75 GP

Dmg (S)
1d10

Dmg (M)
2d6

Critical
x3

Weight
12 lb

Type
Bludgeoning & Piercing Or Bludgeoning & Slashing


Its a very nice weapon, but doesn't have reach.

Blackjackg
2009-07-03, 04:14 PM
Edit: Rescinded. Didn't mean to undercut anyone.

hamishspence
2009-07-03, 04:16 PM
and this one does.

Kyuss uses it, as do his high level minions.

Martial rather than Exotic is a bonus.

EDIT:

I just found two more exotic S/B weapons for you, from Oriental Adventures. The Kawanaga (1d3/1d3, x2 crit, S/B; reach or double, chosen each round; can use Weap. Finess with it) and the Kusari-Gama (1d6/1d4, x2 crit, S/B; reach or double, chosen each round; can use Weap. Finess with it).

Congratulations Keld, you've got four options for Slashing and Bludgeoning weapons. :smallbiggrin:

The DMG version of the Kusuri-gama is plain slashing (1d6, X2 crit, reach, usable like spiked chain (trip, disarm, in close, etc) Plus, its light.

I can just imagine a two-weapon fighting character with two of these- looks a bit like Kratos.

arguskos
2009-07-03, 04:55 PM
I think some of those, particularly those from OA are Slashing or Bludgeoning weapons, not Slashing and Bludgeoning. The executioner's mace seems to be and. If I'm understanding correctly, the point is to be able to deal both slashing and bludgeoning damage with a single swipe.

Edit ('cuz it's not worth a whole other post): I'm saying the Ex's Mace does do what the fellow asked for, but the OA weapons do not.
Meh. I figured I'd post it. Now I wonder why I never post stuff here anymore... :smallannoyed:

hamishspence
2009-07-03, 04:58 PM
I don't have oriental adventures, so the stats were new to me. Always woth seeing something new.

Coidzor
2009-07-04, 01:24 AM
Meh. I figured I'd post it. Now I wonder why I never post stuff here anymore... :smallannoyed:

Well, y'know, they are reach, and they do have a bludgeoning component. There was only the one guy who wanted to mix greater mighty whallop with... whirling blade or something which required the executioner's mace. The OP just wanted reach and bludgeoning.