Batman

[shadow_archmagi]

How would one build him? I'm not talking about some sort of silly "metaphorically accurate" wizard, I mean like a guy that punches people and trained under karate masters but also is capable of designing amazing gadgets and researching cures to cancer on short notice.

My initial thought is a gestalt Factotum/Artificer, so that he can learn to be the best at everything but also do well in combat.

EDIT: 3.5

[The Rose Dragon]

System! System! Mention which system!

Or else I'm going to tell you to take a Costumed Detective and be done with it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Warblade//Unarmed Swordsage with Leadership. Or Warblade/USS//Artificer.

[HamHam]

Complete Adventure (or Scoundrel?) has a Vigilante PrC.

[hamishspence]

Adventurer.

Though some of the Scoundrel PRCs might fit.

[Sinfire Titan]

Warblade//Unarmed Swordsage with Leadership. Or Warblade/USS//Artificer.

Warblade//Factotum or Swordsage//Factotum would cover more bases, but the Artificer would work too.


Anyone wanting to play Batman should read this thread. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0)

[bosssmiley]

Rogue. Batman has no superpowers: he's just a guy with skills, drive and a very tactically-minded player.

(just don't ask me what class Rogue is... :smallamused: )

[Devils_Advocate]

Are we talking about a D&D representation of Batman, or a D&D analogue to Batman?

If we're just talking about modeling the character of Batman as he has appeared in comics, on TV, in film, etc., he'd probably be a Rouge/Unarmed Swordsage or something similar. On the other hand, if a guy like Batman lived in a D&D campaign setting, he might very well become an Artificer.

[Mando Knight]

Are we talking about a D&D representation of Batman, or a D&D analogue to Batman?

If we're just talking about modeling the character of Batman as he has appeared in comics, on TV, in film, etc., he'd probably be a Rouge/Unarmed Swordsage or something similar. On the other hand, if a guy like Batman lived in a D&D campaign setting, he might very well become an Artificer.

And his Intelligence is high enough that he's got maximum skill ranks in not only Move Silently, Hide, Disable Device, Open Lock, etc. but also several Craft skills and most Knowledge skills. Which brings him up to an Int of like 20 with the Rogue skill list.

Truly, he can only be represented as a Gestalt character.

[Kurald Galain]

(just don't ask me what class Rogue is... :smallamused: )

A spellthief, obviously :smallbiggrin:

[Demons_eye]

The Changeling Rogue substitution levels are very nice. No trap finds but trap sense but 10 skill points per level is very nice.
I would build him like

Changeling rouge1/factrom1/rouge18
take able learner and you got all class skills.

[Sinfire Titan]

The Changeling Rogue substitution levels are very nice. No trap finds but trap sense but 10 skill points per level is very nice.

For 3 levels. Any changes to skill points, HD, and saves lasts for only the levels you take on the Sub levels (as per RAW, which kinda sucks because 10+Int skills is really nice).

[Dhavaer]

(just don't ask me what class Rogue is... :smallamused: )

Souldrinker.

[Demons_eye]

For 3 levels. Any changes to skill points, HD, and saves lasts for only the levels you take on the Sub levels (as per RAW, which kinda sucks because 10+Int skills is really nice).

What books says that?

[Devils_Advocate]

Truly, he can only be represented as a Gestalt character.
How do you figure? Any Gestalt character's abilities can be given to a regular character by using twice as many levels.

Do you think that Batman has loads of class features relative to his BAB and hit points?

[quick_comment]

What books says that?

PHB/DMG. Its like taking rogue and fighter levels. You dont get 8+int skills on your fighter levels

[quick_comment]

Do you think that Batman has loads of class features relative to his BAB and hit points?

Yes. If there were a full BAB artificer that got a few maneuvers, that would be batman. But there isnt.

[Justin B.]

I did a build of this once. It's definately gestalt Artificer// Monk/Rogue. Maybe with some Master Thrower thrown in for kicks.

[imp_fireball]

How do you figure? Any Gestalt character's abilities can be given to a regular character by using twice as many levels.

Do you think that Batman has loads of class features relative to his BAB and hit points?

Probably just heavy armor and gadget proficiency. Also use rope is pretty important. Whatever allows him to swing. Also, he can glide with his cape as if he were flying. For an extended period of time.

As in - negate falling damage from thousands of feet. If you've seen Batman and Robin (yes, the movie).


Yes. If there were a full BAB artificer that got a few maneuvers, that would be batman. But there isnt.

Batman doesn't even have very many maneuvers. He just uses his wristblades, armor and cape to deflect everything and then send an enemy spinning with a flick of the arm whenever they charge (he always throws people or diverts them) - doesn't necessarily require any flashy acrobatics or even a stance sort of thing.

[Demons_eye]

PHB/DMG. Its like taking rogue and fighter levels. You dont get 8+int skills on your fighter levels

Sorry I looked in both and I can not find the rule. Your EX: does not make sense its two classes. Racial levels give and take things away depending on the race and I cant find were it would say you don't keep the higher/lower HD Skill point and etc. And does that mean when you gain a skill such as hide or what ever you lose it as a class skill when your not taking racial levels?

[Oblivious]

The Avenging Executioner from Complete Scoundrel is blatantly meant to imitate Batman. The basic idea is that you deal a gruesome blow (a sudden strike), and the person you hit as well as everyone nearby suffers a fear effect. Then anyone suffering from a fear effect is considered flat-footed for the purposes of sudden striking them (and presumably sneak attacking as well). Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately the DC to resist fear is charisma based and the class skills aren't great.

I think that if you want to make Batman without resorting to Gestalt, you'll have to abandon unarmed combat. It just isn't well supported outside of specific classes.

[Eldariel]

The Avenging Executioner from Complete Scoundrel is blatantly meant to imitate Batman. The basic idea is that you deal a gruesome blow (a sudden strike), and the person you hit as well as everyone nearby suffers a fear effect. Then anyone suffering from a fear effect is considered flat-footed for the purposes of sudden striking them (and presumably sneak attacking as well). Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately the DC to resist fear is charisma based and the class skills aren't great.

I think that if you want to make Batman without resorting to Gestalt, you'll have to abandon unarmed combat. It just isn't well supported outside of specific classes.

Eh, Superior Unarmed Strike = any class gets very decent unarmed capabilities.

[Zeta Kai]

I think that I copied this from Dicefreaks. I got from somewhere; either there or Gleemax:

Bruce Wayne, The Batman
Medium Humanoid
Wounds: 53 WP, 420 VP (30d8+180)
Initiative: +15
Speed: 40 ft.
Armor Class: 32 (+16 defense, +6 Dex), touch 32, flat footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+ 37
Attack: Unarmed strike +48 melee (2d10+18 /19-20) or batarang +40 ranged (1d4+7 /18-20)
Full Attack: Flurry of blows +48/+48/+48/+43/+38/+33 melee (2d10+18 /19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Special Attacks: Detective, frightful presence (DC 33), stun (30/day DC 32)
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/slashing or adamantine, defensive roll, evasion, fire resistance 20, hide in plain sight, light fortification, martial artist, obsession
Saves: Fort +29, Ref +29, Will +30
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 23, Con 23, Int 25, Wis 24, Cha 26
Skills: Balance +43, Bluff +46, Climb +40, Computer Use +27, Concentration +21, Craft (chemical) +27, Craft (mechanical) +27, Craft (pharmaceutical) +27, Decipher Script +27, Diplomacy +36, Disable Device +27, Disguise +46 (+50 acting), Drive +21, Escape Artist +39, Forgery +27, Gamble +27, Gather Information +50, Handle Animal +28, Hide +39, Intimidate +50, Investigate +45, Jump +48, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge (behavioral sciences) +27, Knowledge (business) +27, Knowledge (civics) +27, Knowledge (current events) +27, Knowledge (earth and life science) +27, Knowledge (history) +27, Knowledge (physical science) +27, Knowledge (streetwise) +27, Knowledge (tactics) +45, Knowledge (technology) +27, Knowledge (theology) +27, Listen +45, Move Silently +39, Navigate +27, Pilot +21, Repair +27, Research +45, Search +27, Sense Motive +45, Sleight of Hand +25, Spot +27, Survival +27, Swim +22, Treat Injury +27, Tumble +43, Use Rope +21 (+25 bindings)
Feats: Bounding Assault, Close-Quarters Fighting, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Cunning Evasion, Dodge, Endurance, Frightful Presence, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness, Improved Trip, Indomitable, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Lunging Strike, Mobility, Power Attack, Roundabout Kick, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Track, Whirlwind Attack
Epic Feats: Epic Endurance, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Will, Superior Initiative
Climate/Terrain: Gotham City
Organization: Solitary (unique) or with cohort (Robin) or with JLA.
Challenge Rating: 30
Treasure: Equipment
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Detective: Batman is a master of sizing up his opposition. He may make a Gather Information, Investigate or Research check against a DC equal to (10 + opponent's hit die + opponent's Int modifier + opponent's Wis modifier). If he is successful, he gains the following benefits.
+1 insight bonus to AC against attacks made by that opponent for every point by which he exceeds the DC.
+1 bonus to attack and damage against that opponent for every point by which he exceeds the DC.
+1 resistance bonus to saves against attacks made by that opponent for every point by which he exceeds the DC.
+1 competence bonus to initiative rolls against the opponent for every point by which he exceeds the DC.
In addition, for every 5 points by which he exceeds the DC, he may gain one of the following advantages.
Intimate knowledge of one of the opponent's special attacks, qualities, or vulnerabilities. For instance, if he made a successful check against the tarrasque, he could know of its vulnerability to wish magic.
Complete knowledge of opponent's base AC, attack bonus or max hit points. This allows Batman to "metagame", tailoring his use of Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and the like.

Obsession: Due to his never ending quest for perfection, Batman has honed his skills to an edge that no human can match. He has knack, a +5 bonus on all mental based skill checks and maximum vitality points.

Martial Artist: Batman is one of the finest trained martial artists in the world. He gains bonus fighter feats as a fighter of his hit die and unarmed damage and feats as a monk of his hit die.
Batman is never considered flanked.
Missing Batman with a melee attack provokes an attack of opportunity from him.
Batman gains a +8 bonus to attack and damage rolls when fighting unarmed.
Batman gains a +3 bonus to AC for every -1 penalty he takes to attack while using Combat Expertise.
Batman's unarmed strikes deal bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing damage, as he sees fit. It is a free action to change the type of damage he deals.

Possessions: Batman has an extraordinary amount of possessions, many of which he has designed and built himself, that function similar to magical items. The list here is not comprehensive, but includes some common equipment.
Note: The skill modifiers are not included in Batman’s skill block, above.

Batarang: +4 to attack, 1d4 damage, 18-20 critical threat. Martial weapon for Batman, exotic for others. Range increment of 30 feet. May be used to deal nonlethal damage at no penalty.

Bat rope and grapple: Similar to rope of climbing, this shoots a grapple up to 200 feet long. This grants a +10 circumstance bonus to Climb checks when used.

Boots: +5 circumstance bonus to Move Silently checks.

Body armor: Damage reduction 10/slashing or adamantine.

Cape: +5 circumstance bonus to Hide checks, fire resistance 20, +4 shield bonus to AC when fighting defensively.

Cowl: +10 circumstance bonus to Disguise checks, light fortification.

Gauntlets: Increase unarmed attack and damage by +3. Increase unarmed critical multiplier to x3.

Utility belt: As Heward’s handy haversack. Batman carries a huge variety of things in his belt, including his batarangs and grapple.

[KillianHawkeye]

Sorry I looked in both and I can not find the rule. Your EX: does not make sense its two classes. Racial levels give and take things away depending on the race and I cant find were it would say you don't keep the higher/lower HD Skill point and etc. And does that mean when you gain a skill such as hide or what ever you lose it as a class skill when your not taking racial levels?

It's not in those books because racial substitution levels didn't exist then.

How about this:


Selecting a substitution level is not the same as multiclassing--you remain within the class for which the substitution level is taken. The class features of the substitution level simply replace those of the normal level.


When you take a substitution level for your class at a given level, you give up the benefits gained at that level for the standard class and get the substitution level benefits instead.


When a substitution level changes the Hit Dice or class skill list of the base class, the change applies only to the specific substitution class level, not to any other class levels.

I hope that helps clear things up.

[Draz74]

If we're talking the Christopher Nolan movies' version of Batman, i.e. a Batman who has Fox make/invent much of his equipment rather than doing it himself, then I actually think straight Swordsage could be a pretty decent representation. Keep things simple.

[Xyk]

I agree with whoever said Avenging Executioner. The base class would probably be Artificer and maybe Ninja from Cad, because in the movies and cartoons, he tends to pop up everywhere and disappear whenever he needs to. I think he's magic.

[quick_comment]

If we're talking the Christopher Nolan movies' version of Batman, i.e. a Batman who has Fox make/invent much of his equipment rather than doing it himself, then I actually think straight Swordsage could be a pretty decent representation. Keep things simple.

Good point.

Im thinking Swordsage 10/Avenging Executioner 10//Factotum 20. Artificer Cohort