OOTS #667 - The Discussion Thread [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Random832

2009-07-02, 03:30 PM

Initial thoughts:

44 minutes, 16 seconds, total. And the time does not appear to be measured in rounds.

Apparently Tiamat is angry about this; eliminating theories (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116897) that she knew and didn't care about the fact that the dragons would die.

New look for V (so that's where the headband went). V not coming clean about the nature of what was going on (no surprise there). It'll be interesting to see if there's a confrontation between Roy and V. If he's worried enough, he might ask one of the paladins to discreetly Detect Evil.

Nice "five kinds of dragonbreath" imagery on the phone.

Still need to see something with Elan, and maybe the conversation between the IFCC and Tiamat, then a montage (maybe a bit with the Linear Guild?) to end the book. I'll put my ten gold down on 670.

Mahalanon

2009-07-02, 03:31 PM

Tiamat on 5 lines... just hilarious!

Niezck

2009-07-02, 03:31 PM

Hmm, did V's art change?

Lycar

2009-07-02, 03:33 PM

Twilight Jack

2009-07-02, 03:33 PM

Och, Durkon, how Ah've missed ye.

mallornwood

2009-07-02, 03:33 PM

Ms. Tiamat is very cranky, if she's called in on five different lines.

Pyron

2009-07-02, 03:33 PM

Is it me, or does V's new hairstyles remind me of Kyrie?

Mr. Shiny Objec

2009-07-02, 03:34 PM

Awesome. Online, too!

trollcrap. :smalltongue:

MrPig

2009-07-02, 03:34 PM

They serve Tiamat?

Yaaaaaaaaa-

I mean Noooooooo!

No, I imagine she's just very irritated about the familicide spell.

Zanaril

2009-07-02, 03:34 PM

Gratz to those people who called Tiamat, er... calling.

Mauve Shirt

2009-07-02, 03:34 PM

Tiamat is NOT happy.
I like that look for V. :smallbiggrin:

FoE

2009-07-02, 03:35 PM

Yikes. A call from upper management. I always hate it when that happens.

At least Tiamat's heads speak in unison. Talking with Demogorgon is like getting yelled at by two different people at the same time.

Very informative strip.

Belkster11

2009-07-02, 03:35 PM

Oh my... Tiamat seem very, VERY pissed off...

It's only me or, this time, reading Durkon' speeches was a real pain?

I think it's only you. :)

I wonder if V's new hairstyle is somewhat symbolic? Maybe

Elves who are still learning spells have their hairs in ponytails, kinda like Jedi apprentices who have a ponytail off to the side of their head.

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 03:39 PM

One thing I've noticed- all the bat winged lady fiends (so far) have had plain text, (Sabine, the receptionist, the servers in SoD) as did Randy, but Qaar and the three fiends have had coloured text.

Maybe they are half-fiends, or maybe its just colour for the most monstrous ones?

RebelRogue

2009-07-02, 03:40 PM

You've gotta love the Tiamat joke. Good one, Rich :smallbiggrin:

chiasaur11

2009-07-02, 03:41 PM

Ah, about 3/4 of an hour of EEEEVVILLLL.

This does not bode well.

Skios

2009-07-02, 03:42 PM

The Tiamat panel reminded me a lot of this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5/1/) Penny Arcade comic:smalltongue:

HamHam

2009-07-02, 03:43 PM

Oh Tiamat. One of the most clever jokes in a while, actually.

DnDgeek13

2009-07-02, 03:43 PM

cool. i was online when it came out. nice comic. V owes 44 min and sixteen seconds

Irenaeus

2009-07-02, 03:46 PM

Ms. Tiamat. Fantastic.Yeah. For some reason, I found it very amusing that Tiamat was a Ms.

mikeejimbo

2009-07-02, 03:47 PM

I like how Tiamat is holding on lines that follow the Fibonacci sequence.

cyberpunK

2009-07-02, 03:48 PM

Ha, second page. Great strip like always.

Mando Knight

2009-07-02, 03:48 PM

Ms. Tiamat is very cranky, if she's called in on five different lines.

Each head has to get her say. :smalltongue:

The Bookworm

2009-07-02, 03:48 PM

IFCC always manage to be funny! It definitely seems like we're gonna get a montage, a splash page, and then the end of the arc!

HOLEkevin

2009-07-02, 03:48 PM

Elves and dwarves. Always fightin'.

Porthos

2009-07-02, 03:48 PM

While it will never be explained more than this, the fact that Durkon actually had to cast Remove Paralysis certainly points to the fact that V got paralyzed somewhere down the line, as opossed to "just" suffering under Mass Hold Person. And this certainly answers the question of why V was still frozen so long after the MHP should have elasped.

So, Yay for subtly answering questions! :smalltongue:

Double Yay for the heart-to-heart talk between Durkon and V. Very nice, in both directions. And I really can't blame V for not completley spilling his guts here. The fact that he is facing up to his own prejudices is more than enough for now.

And I also appreciated the character devlopment for Durkon as well. Such intra-party understanding is really going to be needed when the IFCC comes calling. :smallwink:

Speaking of which...

Triple Yay for the whole IFCC plot foreshadowing.

meep

2009-07-02, 03:49 PM

Hmmm, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11... Ms. Tiamat is almost Fibonacci-like there [the last would be 13 in such a case....]

Lots of stuff to mull over here. Nice to see both apologize - I think Durkon did need to apologize, and V obviously needed to.

Cleverdan22

2009-07-02, 03:49 PM

Awww. I like the way V's hair looks, of course, it won't last that long, considering he's about to be consumed by evil yet again.

Shadowbane

2009-07-02, 03:49 PM

YES. OHMYGOD. I love this. "Ms. Tiamat." AWESOME.

tigerhawkvok

2009-07-02, 03:50 PM

Epic. Love the character development, and future plot hook.

I like how Tiamat is holding on lines that follow the Fibonacci sequence.
Not quite -- the "11" should be a "13".

DnDgeek13

2009-07-02, 03:50 PM

No, I imagine she's just very irritated about the familicide spell.

cue plot line

Asta Kask

2009-07-02, 03:50 PM

Yeah. For some reason, I found it very amusing that Tiamat was a Ms.

She should really be a Mrs. She was married to Abzu, IIRC.

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 03:52 PM

She has a whole bunch of "consorts" in D&D- typically great wyrm dragons, but there are exceptions.

Haven

2009-07-02, 03:52 PM

Aw, yay! Durkon needs to have more moments like this.

I remember thinking, a little after the first fight with Miko, that V and Durkon had had literally no direct communication besides "Don't you mean Craft (Alchemy)?" "Silence." Which felt weird. Glad to see things have changed.

Yendor

2009-07-02, 03:53 PM

Yup, pretty much as expected. Someone is royally pissed that all those dragons are dead.

waterpenguin43

2009-07-02, 03:53 PM

Oh V, just be glad that Durkon didn't ivest into Sense Motive... your Bluff sure isn't a class skill for you. :smalltongue:

He, so Haley and Varsuvius now got an art change (Elan has had his for a while now).

Any bets on who gets the next art change?

Lycar

Roy also had an art change. Anyway, I am personally quite happy V and Durkon are friends again, I bet some clerics of Tiamat are going to be pissed if they see V in the western continent though.

Random832

2009-07-02, 03:55 PM

I bet some clerics of Tiamat are going to be pissed if they see V in the western continent though.
Or she doesn't blame V as much as she blames the IFCC.

She should really be a Mrs. She was married to Abzu, IIRC.
She has a whole bunch of "consorts" in D&D-
The Tiamat of OOTS appears to be a hybrid between the D&D one and the Babylonian one, so we really can't tell which, if either, is the case.

Timberboar

2009-07-02, 03:56 PM

Dun dun DUN!

:smallbiggrin:

I'm going to twenty-eighth the fondness for the new hairstyle.

Zerg Cookie

2009-07-02, 03:56 PM

Roy also had an art change.

When? :smallconfused:
The boots' art upgrade doesn't count

waterpenguin43

2009-07-02, 03:57 PM

Fri

2009-07-02, 03:57 PM

Durkon is still the only one without a life changing sidequest though.

Nameless

2009-07-02, 03:57 PM

I must say, V looks pretty darn awesome with his hair tied back. I always thought it would look weird. :smallbiggrin:

Zanaril

2009-07-02, 03:58 PM

When? :smallconfused:
The boots' art upgrade doesn't count

I initially read "boots" as having a B instead of a T.

Lissou

2009-07-02, 03:58 PM

My first thought reading this update was "Kaytara will like it".

... I spend too much time on the forums :P

(I love the update too, btw)

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 03:58 PM

I figured OOTS one was closest to the D&D one.

Faerun combined bits of both- Tiamat was an important deity to the Untheric culture, which was basically displaced Babylonians, and Bahamut went by the name Marduk- Tiamat's foe in Babylonian myth. But ruleswise, it was basically the Greyhawk deity.

veti

2009-07-02, 03:58 PM

So who's on lines 1, 4, 6, 7 etc.? Anyone like to guess how many staff work in the IFCC office?

At first I had thought they were just a bunch of wackos, along the lines of IBM Research Fellows, probably quietly ignored by most other fiends (since Qarr, at least, hadn't heard of them). But since then, we've learned they employ Sabine, and now it looks like they've got a full-time receptionist or secretary, so it's starting to look as if there might be quite a substantial office down there.

Which suggests that their superiors must be taking them quite seriously.

waterpenguin43

2009-07-02, 03:58 PM

When? :smallconfused:
The boots' art upgrade doesn't count

In comic 666, he is wearing different clothes. Though these are likely his real ones.

Badgercloak

2009-07-02, 03:59 PM

Great comic, holding on five lines hahaha.

The plot thickens, what could their purposes be?

Now cue the V is a girl based on hair style threads.

Ridureyu

2009-07-02, 03:59 PM

So basically, we have an argument that acknowledges, and in its own way verifies each side of the story, and enriches all while providing further plot points.

We're gonna fight over it, aren't we?

Kobold-Bard

2009-07-02, 04:01 PM

As :elan: would say: DUN DUN DUUUUUUN!!!! (I haven't read all the ost preceding mine, so if this has already been said I don't care :smalltongue:)

I like V's new hair. Very much like mine (which is weird because I see V as female). Meh oh well.

Airenus

2009-07-02, 04:02 PM

my guess is that one of the fiends when belkar dies will take control of v to animate him so they can have o more permanent cohort and so that we wont miss our favorite Belkar :smallsmile:

J.Gellert

2009-07-02, 04:02 PM

Tiamat's going to lecture them for the dragon-thingy, isn't she? :smallamused:

Also, I thought V's headband was... solid?

Porthos

2009-07-02, 04:03 PM

My first thought reading this update way "Kaytara will like it".

I am not ashamed to admit that was one of the first things that went through my mind as well. :smalltongue:

Teatime

2009-07-02, 04:05 PM

I really doubt that the Tiamat thing is going to have any further repercussions other than that joke. For one, the IFCC will likely handle it in a bureaucratic manner if they can. And plus, if Tiamat were to come looking for Vaarsuvius with vengeance in mind, that kind of threat would seem to far outweigh Xykon and the gates plotline. Hell, after that sidequest, the main plot would be an anti-climax.

So, Ms. Tiamat was a joke (and a good one at that), but the Fiends will return. Exciting!

Milskidasith

2009-07-02, 04:06 PM

This strip made me happy. I can't really say much more. It was just a good strip overall.

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 04:07 PM

Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't quite cover it. :smallamused:

pendell

2009-07-02, 04:08 PM

"Ms. Tiamat is holding on line 3"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Comedy GOLD! I loved it.

let's see -- So V spent a total of 20 minutes , 25 seconds, of which 3 minutes, 6 seconds were in bondage to all three Evil ones, and 17 minutes 19 seconds in bondage to just the two. Do I have that right?

Lessee .. a round is six seconds. That means that lawful and chaotic gets him for 205 rounds, and neutral gets him for 31 rounds. Is that correct?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 04:09 PM

Jan Mattys

2009-07-02, 04:09 PM

I think the next page will be the end of the book. Order back together or something like that.

Also: people, stop picking on Durkon because he gets no crowning moments of awesome. His wisdom has kept the Order together more times than I can think, and he's doing his job most excellently.

I love the little bearded fella :D

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 04:12 PM

"Ms. Tiamat is holding on line 3"

You mean 2, 3, 5, 8, and 11; one line for each of her heads :smallbiggrin:

Zherog

2009-07-02, 04:12 PM

Thanks, Rich. My coworkers now think I'm crazy* because I'm sitting here in my cubicle laughing maniacally at the last frame.

* It's entirely possible they already thought I was crazy, and this is just verification.

Red XIV

2009-07-02, 04:14 PM

They serve Tiamat?

Yaaaaaaaaa-

I mean Noooooooo!
Doubtful. More likely, it's just that the IFCC (as they already indicated a while back) has arrangements with the Evil gods. I'm sure they intend to smooth things over with Tiamat, because it's all for the greater Evil. Plus, they can always promise to turn V over to her when they've completed their own plans.

Thalnawr

2009-07-02, 04:14 PM

I don't know- we have an angry deity, and the party are about to set off into the continent which is "home territory" to that deity. There is the agreement not to interfere directly out of home territory (Thor getting in trouble for it) but here, Tiamat has room to work.

She may not pin all the blame on V, but I'd be surprised if there are no repercussions at all for the Order.

They're actually probably already in that home territory. In #643, V did teleport the Azure remnants 'a few dozen kilometers from the Western continent'. Pretty sure that's inside the Western gods jurisdiction.

choie

2009-07-02, 04:16 PM

Wow, and I just blabbered on in the "who's changed the most?" thread about how Durkon hasn't changed.

Awesome installment, Rich. Very touching (I love Vaarsuvius's face during V's sad admission "Drained ... foolish...") and heartfelt conversation between two characters who I think should be getting along best. Vaarsuvius needs a good, warm-hearted counselor after all this angst. I'm relieved to see V getting some credit for the O-Chul save, but also to see V not wanting to accept it and simultaneously acknowledging how badly s/he wasted the 'gift'. And yay for Durkon for being less judgmental and acknowledging his own error, though of course his praise only serves to make V guiltier, heh!

I rather like that V didn't admit the soul splice. Adds an underlying tension that could continue to stretch V a bit thin.

And of course, the IFCC panel at the end was great, with Tiamet's multi-line call eliciting a shamefully vocal four-letter curse from me. YIPE! Poor poor Vaarsuvius. I love it.

I'll miss V's prim little shoulder-length bob if s/he keeps the ponytail, but V looks adorable here as well. And yes, it makes V look a wee bit girlier than usual (it is Haley's hairstyle, after all), but that doesn't mean anything. Indeed, doesn't Rich's own avatar use the same style?

Very very interested to see Vaarsuvius and Elan having a conversation. I suspect we may not see one, but I wish we would; Elan and V had some serious mutual anger going on before V left, not to mention a shared secret (re: Kubota). And while Durkon seems to think he's the one responsible for V leaving, it was of course V's summary execution of Kubota -- and Elan's understandably harsh reaction to it -- that pulled the trigger on V's decision.

Great work, Rich!

Tyrmatt

2009-07-02, 04:20 PM

I've always wanted to see Rich's rendition of Tiamat. She's always been at the back of my mind ever since I watched the D&D cartoon as a kid. Looks like I'll get my wish in the future.

And now the Order is back together. A little bruised, a little shaken up. But they're back together. And I can hear the guitars rising in the background.
The boys are back in town!

DSCrankshaw

2009-07-02, 04:20 PM

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 04:20 PM

They're actually probably already in that home territory. In #643, V did teleport the Azure remnants 'a few dozen kilometers from the Western continent'. Pretty sure that's inside the Western gods jurisdiction.

Possible. But once they get closer, we may see clerics of Tiamat breaking conventional rules, like Durkon did with Thor's help. Which is, I think, what got the Twelve Gods annoyed, and Thor saying "Ok, we'll stay up north and leave you alone."

Kaytara

2009-07-02, 04:20 PM

Lissou, Porthos... huh? Are you talking about the change in hairstyle, the fact that Durkon also tried to apologize, or the character growth for V?

*sigh*
Heh, I honestly don't know why everyone seems to think that I'm some sort of holy warrior for the cause of Vaarsuvius (a role for which choie probably qualifies far better than I). :smallbiggrin: V's development was just what was on the table when I first joined the forums. As soon as Redcloak gets more development I'll probably start writing lengthy posts on him as well.

Teatime, you may have a point in that Tiamat is too huge a threat to play a role in the story at this point... Besides, the comic does seem to imply that she's angry with the IFCC a lot more than with some idiotic mortal. It makes sense. If someone gives a powerful tool to a foolish child and the child wreaks havoc with it, you mostly blame the person who gave them the weapon, not the child - and a foolish child is all a mid-level mortal like V is to a powerful goddess like Tiamat.

I agree with some above posters that it won't become a major plot point but is still likely to influence events in a small but crucial way.

ScIaDrd

2009-07-02, 04:21 PM

Ooo nice to finally see come character development from V. (and of course for Durkon too) Vaarsuvius at last has some sense in hir, yay:smallbiggrin: And the art upgrade is nice too Shi somehow looks really cute with that headband-of-intellect ponytail. *cuddlecuddle*:smallbiggrin::smalleek: Wonder it it still functioning, when it´s not on the forehead:smallconfused: just kidding.
...
(/beginrant)
Wait. maybe the HoI hairclip stands for the the development of V´s character. Shi ,,put away" hir intellect and the insufferable attitude, becoming more aware of hir own failures and the shortcomings of magic and maybe embarking on the road to learning humlity.
(endrant/)
Whew, my first must-find-inner-meaning-in-everything musing, cool:smallcool:
Love the walking joke. And Tiamat/Thakisis on the phone lines was absolutely priceless.:smallsmile:
PS May I ask you avatarists around here for a Ponatail!V avatar please?
or maybe for a Pontail +Evil!TwinfacedV avatar? (as in a composite being),pretty please:smallwink:?

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 04:23 PM

*sigh*
Heh, I honestly don't know why everyone seems to think that I'm some sort of holy warrior for the cause of Vaarsuvius (a role for which choie probably qualifies far better than I).

I thought that was David Argall. :smallamused:

Porthos

2009-07-02, 04:24 PM

Lissou, Porthos... huh? Are you talking about the change in hairstyle, the fact that Durkon also tried to apologize, or the character growth for V?

The latter two in my case. :smallwink:

Heh, I honestly don't know why everyone seems to think that I'm some sort of holy warrior for the cause of Vaarsuvius

Just consider it a compliment that people think that you deliver well remembered (and well reasoned) arguments about things that interest you. :smalltongue:

Timberboar

2009-07-02, 04:25 PM

... if Tiamat were to come looking for Vaarsuvius with vengeance in mind, that kind of threat would seem to far outweigh Xykon and the gates plotline. Hell, after that sidequest, the main plot would be an anti-climax.

Really?

You think one angry goddess would outweigh the god-killing abomination that wants nothing so much as to undo all of creation?

I think I'm going to have to disagree on that one.

veti

2009-07-02, 04:26 PM

Very very interested to see Vaarsuvius and Elan having a conversation. I suspect we may not see one, but I wish we would; Elan and V had some serious mutual anger going on before V left, not to mention a shared secret (re: Kubota). And while Durkon seems to think he's the one responsible for V leaving, it was of course V's summary execution of Kubota -- and Elan's understandably harsh reaction to it -- that pulled the trigger on V's decision.

Well, this strip confirms that V is once more in the land of Sane, which she seems to have departed about the time of the Fall of Azure City (when she stopped trancing). So we could see her having heart-to-heart reconciliations with everyone (except the Belkster), but that'd get pretty dull if they take more than about a panel each.

Ted The Bug

2009-07-02, 04:30 PM

That way lies madness.
That way lies SPARTAAAAAAA!

Porthos

2009-07-02, 04:31 PM

I've always wanted to see Rich's rendition of Tiamat.

You can get a glimpse of her* in The Oracle trance scene. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) :smallsmile:

* or at least a Partial Symbolic Representation

Pronounceable

2009-07-02, 04:32 PM

What I like is the various breath weapons coming off the phone...

Lynch Bait

2009-07-02, 04:34 PM

Now, does V use her circlet as a ponytail holder? Can she do that because magic items resize to fit their owner? Or would she have to be wearing it in it's usual place on her forehead?:smallconfused:

hamishspence

2009-07-02, 04:34 PM

You can get a glimpse of her in The Oracle trance scene. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) :smallsmile:

And one in the Crayons of time strips. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html)

GypsyThorn

2009-07-02, 04:36 PM

This is the strip that should have been 666.

Teddy

2009-07-02, 04:37 PM

Ahh, I like how Vaarsuvius realizes something about... well... everything about 'self. Wielding magic like a cudgel might be effective as long as you only have to blow up goblins (or dragons, on a few occations), but it won't do good picking the locks of the road of life (some day I've got to learn how to metaphorize...). And Durkon gave V some valuable insight too.

blackfox

2009-07-02, 04:37 PM

Tiamat jokes + random numbers + multiple breath attacks emitting from phone = made my day. Thanks, Giant. :smallsmile:

KIDS

2009-07-02, 04:38 PM

I love the moral tone of this comic, but the implications... whatever the fiends are planning, it will be horrible.

TerrickTerran

2009-07-02, 04:38 PM

It was going along nicely..but oh that last panel was pure gold.

SandyCaesar

2009-07-02, 04:41 PM

Uh-oh. Suddenly we're reminded of exactly what V's actions have done. (Sidenote: new look for V, hmm? This'll be interesting.) The character development for Durkon: now it begins...

Porthos

2009-07-02, 04:42 PM

This is the strip that should have been 666.

No.

No no no no.

It really shouldn't have been.

Nononononono.

PS:

No it should not. :smalltongue:

Seeesh, will people please give this obsession with 666 a rest? If only for Forum Rules sakes?

Porthos

2009-07-02, 04:44 PM

And one in the Crayons of time strips. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html)

And, now that I think about it, she appeared in Start of Darkness as well.

Omegonthesane

2009-07-02, 04:44 PM

Really?

You think one angry goddess would outweigh the god-killing abomination that wants nothing so much as to undo all of creation?

I think I'm going to have to disagree on that one.

No, we think one angry goddess would outweigh one mere mortal sorcerer and his puny mortal army. It's Xykon the Order has to pwn - the Snarl is just a MacGuffin.

Timberboar

2009-07-02, 04:48 PM

No, we think one angry goddess would outweigh one mere mortal sorcerer and his puny mortal army. It's Xykon the Order has to pwn - the Snarl is just a MacGuffin.

When you get right down to it, Tiamat would be no less of a MacGuffin, though. People keep talking about her like she's a monster, when they should be talking about her like she's a god.

Even the Dark One can only bring Redcloak to bear on his enemies. So too is Tiamat bound by the nonintervention policy.

When looking at whose MacGuffin is "bigger" or "more threatening," one must look at the consequences of failure -- and in this case, "one mere mortal sorcerer and his puny mortal army" are far FAR more of a threat than Tiamat could ever be.

Kaytara

2009-07-02, 04:50 PM

No, we think one angry goddess would outweigh one mere mortal sorcerer and his puny mortal army. It's Xykon the Order has to pwn - the Snarl is just a MacGuffin.

So far. I agree that, as long as the Order is still "only" up against Xykon & Co., introducing the threat of a goddess going after them would pretty much be way too over their heads.
At the end of the comic, after the nature of the Snarl has been revealed and will be playing out its role? Who knows?

I just got a creepy feeling that V's chances of a happy ending went down significantly with this little revelation.

Athaniar

2009-07-02, 04:51 PM

I am glad to see that Tiamat's going to have her vengeance, in one way or another. She's always been one of my favorite D&D deities.

Raenir Salazar

2009-07-02, 04:56 PM

I knew it!

And V gets a new awesome hairstyle!

Porthos

2009-07-02, 05:02 PM

So why does V need Remove Paralysis, when O-Chul doesn't? All Xykon cast on them was Hold Person, and that doesn't last very long.

Now, I know Xykon touched them both when he went back after them to cast Meteor Swarm, but it's been traditional in the strip to say the name of the spell/power you're using, as when Xykon paralysed O-Chul the first time.

Also, Remove Paralysis wouldn't work on Paralyzing Touch, because it only works on temporary effects.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm

Paralyzing Touch (Su)
Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description).

The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Spot check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive..

Furthermore, spells aren't always announced. Nor are special abilities (SoD confirms this). If one wants, just consider the scene where Xykon paralyzies O-Chul as one where Xykon is making a self-aware and snarky remark to himself. You know, one where he is basically saying how awesome he is.

If you need more convincing, Xykon said Paralyzing Touch after O-Chul was frozen.

Really, the whole point of annoucing things is so the reader knows what is going on. In this case, we have enough evidence, after the fact, that V got hit with both a Mass Hold Person and a Paralyzing Touch. There is literally no way the comic makes sense otherwise.

So why wasn't O-Chul affected? Simple. This time he made his save versus the Paralyzing Touch. :smallwink:

Elfin

2009-07-02, 05:04 PM

Ms. Tiamat...can't wait. Awesome comic, though I'm not much for V's new look...

Totally Guy

2009-07-02, 05:05 PM

I see V got the cape back.

Linkavitch

2009-07-02, 05:07 PM

Loved the comic, Giant. The detail on Ms. Tiamat and the five lines sh was holding on...priceless!:smallbiggrin:But it begs the question: why do the IFFC have eleven phone lines?

I also like V's new hairstyle. It's cool. I know a couple people who wear their hair like that.

Sabre13

2009-07-02, 05:08 PM

What an update! lol Ms. Tiamat on lines 2, 3, 5, 8,and 11

Like the avatar, Sandyceasar

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 05:09 PM

harmonic, I've never seen a delete that fast! But I hope Porthos answered your question...

Ms. Tiamat...can't wait. Awesome comic, though I'm not much for V's new look...

Too manly? :smallwink:
(Yes I'm starting those threads again)

I thought that was David Argall. :smallamused:

How very odd that he hasn't weighed in yet to explain again how Tiamat won't care about Familicide :smallbiggrin:

Thanatosia

2009-07-02, 05:09 PM

They serve Tiamat?

Yaaaaaaaaa-

I mean Noooooooo!
Not quite.... but Tiamat is a Diety who dwells on the Lower Planes, and as Fiends, they are quite within her grasp and waaaaaaaay below her power scale. Could be quite a significant complication for the IFCC if Rich follows this thing and its not a 1-shot joke.

Hmmm, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11... Ms. Tiamat is almost Fibonacci-like there [the last would be 13 in such a case....]

Lots of stuff to mull over here. Nice to see both apologize - I think Durkon did need to apologize, and V obviously needed to.
Wow, good catch.... Wonder if there's any significance to the Fibonacci sequence with Tiamat here.

RdMarquis

2009-07-02, 05:09 PM

I wonder how Tiamat is making that call. Is she holding five phones to her heads somehow, or lacking hands, does she have people for that?

Also, it must have sucked for whoever answered that call.

"Hello, IFCC main offices- Oh my gods, I'm being frozen, burned, poisoned, etc..." Something like that. :smallsmile:

Anyway, I approve of V's new hairstyle, and her/his understanding of his/her mistakes. Durkon's pep talk also made me smile.

So, when is someone going to tell V that Roy...used her cloak?

Milskidasith

2009-07-02, 05:11 PM

You know, I'm just going to post the stupid 666 conspiracy theorists most likely defense right now. Please note, this is just my bet on what some person who said 666 will have the fiends in it will say

This strip would have been 666, but Rich added an extra strip (#644) due to a real life death, which moved the strip up a number.

That theory obviously ignores the fact Rich could have easily switched strips 666 and 667 around and not complicated anything, along with a bunch of other assumptions. But somebody is going to use that theory. I bet you 10 gold pieces.

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 05:11 PM

"Hello, IFCC main offices- Oh my gods, I'm being frozen, burned, poisoned, etc..." Something like that. :smallsmile:

"Oh my gods" probably isn't a phrase you'd hear often in the IFCC offices...

You know, I'm just going to post the stupid 666 conspiracy theorists most likely defense right now. Please note, this is just my bet on what some person who said 666 will have the fiends in it will say

This strip would have been 666, but Rich added an extra strip (#644) due to a real life death, which moved the strip up a number.

That theory obviously ignores the fact Rich could have easily switched strips 666 and 667 around and not complicated anything, along with a bunch of other assumptions. But somebody is going to use that theory. I bet you 10 gold pieces.

If you're going to count that, then it STILL wouldn't have, because Gygax's tribute strip pushed everything up too.

Generic Name #6

2009-07-02, 05:14 PM

Wow, good catch.... Wonder if there's any significance to the Fibonacci sequence with Tiamat here. I doubt it. I'll eat my d20 if it's anything more than a little "bonus" for people who recognize it.

mec

2009-07-02, 05:15 PM

I was wondering about the phones, too. Celia has a cell phone, way back in the dungeon when she was talking to her mom. So cell phones are available in the OOTS universe.

And I think cell phones + hell are a very natural fit. The service plans, the contracts, the customer service, the dead zones, and so on.

Fayd

2009-07-02, 05:27 PM

I'm going to assume then that Tiamat is not a blood relation to any dragons? Because Tiamat might be even MORE angry if she's calling from the Astral Plane...Familicide was an epic spell, after all...and Rich's interpretation of of epic here seems to be more the "tell reality to go sit in a corner for a while" than just "powerful spell with odd requirements."

Gods CAN come back, right? That's what Neverwinter Nights 2's Mask of the Betrayer lead me to believe anyway

Shadowbane

2009-07-02, 05:29 PM

I somehow doubt even Familicide could kill a goddess.

mikeejimbo

2009-07-02, 05:41 PM

Epic. Love the character development, and future plot hook.

Not quite -- the "11" should be a "13".

Oh yeah. I either glanced at it and assumed it was a 13, or I just can't add.

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 05:43 PM

I doubt it. I'll eat my d20 if it's anything more than a little "bonus" for people who recognize it.

I'm kind of glad it isn't; not every webcomic with some numbers in it needs to go XKCD.

Lord Seth

2009-07-02, 05:48 PM

I didn't get the Tiamat joke at first, but then I remembered Tiamat had multiple heads.

David Argall

2009-07-02, 05:50 PM

And ouch. Tiamat. THIS certainly qualifies as a future plot hook. Doesn't it?

Nope. In fact it confirms there isn't one.
Any reasonable response to killing all those dragons should totally destroy the party, and so can't happen. But it seems there ought to be a response. Our writer thus provides a good compromise. All of the anger is passed onto the fiends, who will deal with the matter off stage. We may see a picture or two of maybe one of the fiends who has been raked over the coals, literally, and a statement that he managed to soothe Tiamat, who will make sure the other dragons don't bother V, and maybe say that they will have to share the loot with Tiamat, but that will be it. As far as the party is concerned, nothing will happen.

V's new hairstyle looks so odd on him... I hope he keeps it, though. :)
This is the first time I have looked at V and thought "young elf". In earlier pictures, I would have had no trouble believing V was middle-aged at least. Since V is supposed to be young, it would thus count as an improvement.

David Argall.
How very odd that he hasn't weighed in yet to explain again how Tiamat won't care about Familicide
Well, the strip has only been posted for a couple hours. However, we only need to explain why Tiamat would not care if there is no response to the spell. Since we now have a response, we have no need to explain why there is not one.

Lissou

2009-07-02, 05:57 PM

Lissou, Porthos... huh? Are you talking about the change in hairstyle, the fact that Durkon also tried to apologize, or the character growth for V?

Hum... all of it?
I don't know, your posts are eloquent and well thought-through and marked me the most, I guess. And you did draw V and V's family a lot. I guess I assumed (s)he was your favourite character (or one of your fav at least). Character development for V + recognition from Durkon sounds pretty good to me.
Plus it allows you to tell everyone and their sister "I told you so".

That doesn't mean I believe you don't have interesting thoughts to share about other characters of course.

SoC175

2009-07-02, 05:58 PM

So far. I agree that, as long as the Order is still "only" up against Xykon & Co., introducing the threat of a goddess going after them would pretty much be way too over their heads.
They're already up against the Dark One.

Lamech

2009-07-02, 05:58 PM

Nice... I think that everyone has a partial picture of stuff here. Its kind of funny. Durkon thinks that V aquired the power to go toe to toe with Xykon. Haley thinks Roy has a master 7 week plan. Belkar thinks he has everyone fooled.

infiniteviking

2009-07-02, 05:59 PM

Tiamat's black-dragon head is still alive -- otherwise she'd only have been calling on four lines.

Is it me, or does V's new hairstyles remind me of Kyrie?

Oh, ouch. Good catch there.

Very touching (I love Vaarsuvius's face during V's sad admission "Drained ... foolish...") and heartfelt conversation between two characters who I think should be getting along best. Vaarsuvius needs a good, warm-hearted counselor after all this angst. I'm relieved to see V getting some credit for the O-Chul save, but also to see V not wanting to accept it and simultaneously acknowledging how badly s/he wasted the 'gift'.

(...)Very very interested to see Vaarsuvius and Elan having a conversation. I suspect we may not see one, but I wish we would; Elan and V had some serious mutual anger going on before V left, not to mention a shared secret (re: Kubota). And while Durkon seems to think he's the one responsible for V leaving, it was of course V's summary execution of Kubota -- and Elan's understandably harsh reaction to it -- that pulled the trigger on V's decision.

Seconding all that. Yep.

headband-of-intellect ponytail

Wait, it was a Headband of Intellect? Neat! And he must've had it in his pocket the whole time. XD I'd also thought it was a metal headband, but maybe it was some kind of finely segmented chain.

Anyway, great comic -- it's everything I was waiting for after V started thinking rationally again. It's great to see him back to normal, acknowledging everything he did and being aware of exactly where he went wrong. Durkon's encouragement would be just what he needed if there had been no long-term repercussions. Unfortunately, there's Kyrie and the kids, whose legs were still broken when V left them there. There's no quick way for him to confront that situation, even if he wanted to, is there? That's going to haunt him for a long time.

Also, the cloak thing still confuses me. So they rezzed Roy, he used V's cloak for a while, he got dressed, everyone dispersed, and then someone put the cloak back on V before dispelling the paralysis? Erm.

ArcadiaGM

2009-07-02, 06:04 PM

All I can say is LOL at the "Oy".

I'd post "Ditto", but that message is too short. :smallsmile:

SoC175

2009-07-02, 06:04 PM

I somehow doubt even Familicide could kill a goddess.

However it would be funny if a flashback reveals Tiamat becoming aware of the Familicide by being hit by the spell and just casually shrugging it off before taking a look at the material plane to see what the f*** that was only to discover what happened to all the mortal black dragons.

Rakim Avishot

2009-07-02, 06:06 PM

He, so Haley and Varsuvius now got an art change (Elan has had his for a while now).

Any bets on who gets the next art change?

Lycar

Roy. Definitely. All the previous art upgrades were for people who were away for a really long time*, and Roy's been gone the longest. V even got two art upgrades recently, both times s/he returned from a trip.
*May I refer you to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)...

Optimystik

2009-07-02, 06:08 PM

Nope. In fact it confirms there isn't one.
Any reasonable response to killing all those dragons should totally destroy the party, and so can't happen. But it seems there ought to be a response. Our writer thus provides a good compromise. All of the anger is passed onto the fiends, who will deal with the matter off stage. We may see a picture or two of maybe one of the fiends who has been raked over the coals, literally, and a statement that he managed to soothe Tiamat, who will make sure the other dragons don't bother V, and maybe say that they will have to share the loot with Tiamat, but that will be it. As far as the party is concerned, nothing will happen.

Hai2u!

Let's wager 10gp on that, shall we?

RdMarquis

2009-07-02, 06:22 PM

"Oh my gods" probably isn't a phrase you'd hear often in the IFCC offices...

Well, "Oh my (Whoever I worship)", then. You know what, since the IFCC are pretty big movers and shakers at the cosmic level, "Oh my Bosses".

Shian Tieus

2009-07-02, 06:23 PM

wasn't V cloak been used for cover roy? Why s/he have it on his shoulders?

Kaytara

2009-07-02, 06:36 PM

David, saying that something is a plot hook is not the same as saying that it must be a HUGE plot hook. I agreed in a later post that direct meddling by Tiamat would upset the power balance of the story. I still think it's likely to play out in some way.

They're already up against the Dark One.
True, but, well... Tiamat is the mother of chromatic dragons, and we've all seen how dragon mothers react. And a great number of her children were just snuffed out. She has every reason to take this personally. The only reason not to is that she may consider V a worm and not worth the effort or the attention.

That aside, I'm going to chime in on the Durkon praise. People often refer to him as the dullest, blandest character, but I think his moments of glory are simply usually more subtle, as far as characterisation goes. Most notably, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0205.html), here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0264.html), here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0444.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html) are great examples of him staying true to his role of the high-WIS party cleric. He usually stays quietly in the background, but when he's needed, he jumps to the front and says what needs to be said. He's also consistent with the idea of low Charisma: in the case of V during the fleet arc, he's wise enough to see where the problem lies but can't get V to listen to him. In the recent arc I had a slight issue with him because he criticised V for obsessing with Haley but couldn't really come up with a better idea, either, and yet the comic seemed to paint him as in the right and V in the wrong. But now that that little bit of dissonance has been addressed and used to showcase both V's character growth and Durkon's great wisdom and capacity for acknowledging his own mistakes, I'm happy. They both came out the better for it.

And you did draw V and V's family a lot. I guess I assumed (s)he was your favourite character (or one of your fav at least).
Hm, that's certainly true, isn't it? It's mostly V's design, though, really. I'm happy with how I've envisioned Haley and Elan and the rest, but V is the hardest to figure out, so I tend to make the most attempts at him. Not to mention the whole androgyny issue, and the fact that I'm terrible at drawing folds so this gives me lots of chances to practice. And the hair. I LOVE drawing long hair. ^^
I suppose V IS one of my favourite characters, but I honestly couldn't say that I enjoy reading about him more than about Belkar or Elan or Haley... He just recently got a huge boost in my eyes because I like realistically shown psychology. (And I like haughty elves in general, I loved Sand from NWN2 as well... :P)

R. Shackleford

2009-07-02, 06:47 PM

The "Oy" panel made me think of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law.

Estelindis

2009-07-02, 06:59 PM

Very touching (and, yet, slightly worrying) reconciliation between V and Durkon. :)

Don't like the ponytail, though. I think V's hair looked better loose.

And Tiamat taking an interest (to put it mildly)... I wonder who she'll think is the bigger culprit: the IFCC, or V?

Tobimaro

2009-07-02, 07:06 PM

Glad to see that, even with some arguing, that V and Durkon can both admit that they were a bit wrong in their actions. V needed to stop and think about hir's actions, and Durkon needed a kick to the butt and do a bit more.

No harm? Well... :smallamused:

Jagos

2009-07-02, 07:08 PM

I like the fact that V isn't really off the hook.

But why do I feel Tiamat MAY come back after her complaint to the IFCC is done?

Kaytara

2009-07-02, 07:09 PM

Don't like the ponytail, though. I think V's hair looked better loose.

A pain for Craft Alchemy checks, though. XD Don't you remember your safety guidelines for chemistry class? :)

...Although baggy robes with huge, long, loose sleeves should be even worse in that regard... I mean, you wouldn't be able to reach over your desk without knocking something over with your long sleeves.

Forget the Impractical Female Armour! Let's protest against the Impractical Alchemist Sleeves, instead! :D

Menas

2009-07-02, 07:16 PM

But why do I feel Tiamat MAY come back after her complaint to the IFCC is done?

The IFCC will need to be really creative regarding whatever they're going to tell her.

I'm thinking 'so we can gain control over a god-killing monster' isn't a reason that's going to put Tiamat at ease.

Morgan Wick

2009-07-02, 07:18 PM

Poor fiend.. first he gets short-changed AND he has to be the one to deal with Tiamat :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Erm... Haer(t)a was Purple's, right? And why would Purple respond to Orange if Orange was talking to Yellow, especially when Purple was facing him and Yellow wasn't?

The book isn't going to end before Celia's taken care of, and I'd like to see the OOTS at least form the beginnings of a plan, as well as a Linear Guild interlude if they're going to have a critical role in the next book. A look-in at the Sapphire Guard would be useful as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the call from Tiamat is relegated to the end of book montage to prevent spoilage, which I wouldn't be surprised if we were less than ten (or even five) strips from.

alegollama

2009-07-02, 07:18 PM

The IFCC will need to be really creative regarding whatever they're going to tell her.

Yeah.... I bet Tiamat has a bunch of ranks in "Detect BS"

"It was an accident?"

zql

2009-07-02, 07:20 PM

i like the ponytail, but it isn't suitable for a wiz
it reminds me J. Scoudrel

Mike_the_Mystic

2009-07-02, 07:23 PM

Ooh, Tiamat's pissed. I'm scared for the Order now.:smalleek:

Indeed I'm glad that Durkon got some good character development, V as well!:smallbiggrin:

veti

2009-07-02, 07:31 PM

Wait, it was a Headband of Intellect? Neat! And he must've had it in his pocket the whole time. XD I'd also thought it was a metal headband, but maybe it was some kind of finely segmented chain.

Have you never heard of the Scrunchie of Concentration?

Xorbon

2009-07-02, 07:36 PM

However it would be funny if a flashback reveals Tiamat becoming aware of the Familicide by being hit by the spell and just casually shrugging it off before taking a look at the material plane to see what the f*** that was only to discover what happened to all the mortal black dragons.

Did you miss this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html) comic? (Hint: Look closely at what V says in the 3rd panel.)

Anyway, I'm with those who believe the Fiends will handle Tiamat. I don't think we will see her getting in the way of the heroes. (I could be wrong though. :smallwink:)

i6uuaq

2009-07-02, 07:37 PM

The yellow fiend wasn't reacting to the amount of time he had - he had a 20min block. He was reacting to the "sound and fury" coming over phone lines 2, 3, 5, 8 and 11. :smallbiggrin:

V clearly isn't going to tell the OotS about the IFCC. In the 2nd-last frame, V says, "No harm done" with the look of someone who is too piss-scared to say otherwise. I would probably have done the same though... V obviously treasures the respect that he has from the others, and doesn't want to destroy even more of it. But Roy knows, of course... if this isn't dealt with, the last panel implies that the IFCC have plans for V...

Thankfully, it appears that the rage of the 5-headed dragon goddess is being directed at the IFCC, not the OotS. Although I have no doubts about their ability to pin the blame on V, I doubt they would want their agent on the mortal plane to be curb-stomped by 5 heads of angry dragon goddess.

Axl_Rose

2009-07-02, 07:45 PM

I laughed my ass off at the last panel haha. Good stuff!

But Roy knows, of course... if this isn't dealt with, the last panel implies that the IFCC have plans for V...

Roy doesn't know. That's what the angel thing told Eugene to tell Roy.

JessiTsuki

2009-07-02, 07:48 PM

With everything I could focus on in this comic, my opinion right now is just "YES! V is keeping the long hair!" Atleast I hope so =D

blalien

2009-07-02, 07:49 PM

Why are the fiends so happy about having a mid-level wizard for 45 minutes, when they apparently have epic-level spellcasters in their possession?

Estelindis

2009-07-02, 07:50 PM

A pain for Craft Alchemy checks, though. XD Don't you remember your safety guidelines for chemistry class? :)
Practiality? What's that? :smallwink: :smalltongue:

Forget the Impractical Female Armour! Let's protest against the Impractical Alchemist Sleeves, instead! :D
Heh - I'm good with impractical female armour as long as 1) it's appropriate to the campaign setting, and 2) it's classy. :smallsmile:

Pyron

2009-07-02, 07:54 PM

Heh - I'm good with impractical female armour as long as 1) it's appropriate to the campaign setting, and 2) it's classy. :smallsmile:

Why am I picturing V in bikini chain mail?

Porthos

2009-07-02, 07:54 PM

Why are the fiends so happy about having a mid-level wizard for 45 minutes, when they apparently have epic-level spellcasters in their possession?

Because all of those spellcasters are currently dead, and thus can't directly affect the world of the living?

blalien

2009-07-02, 07:58 PM

Because all of those spellcasters are currently dead, and thus can't affect the world of the living?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html

I think it's implied that Vaarsuvius doesn't pay his debt until after he dies.

stumpoman

2009-07-02, 07:59 PM

In regards to Xykon not being a bigger problem than Tiamat, if Xykon gains control of the god-killing Snarl like he wants he quickly becomes a bigger problem. Might even be able to control the gods.

Porthos

2009-07-02, 08:00 PM

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html

I think it's implied that Vaarsuvius doesn't pay his debt until after he dies.

V certainly presumes that, yes.

Curiously enuf, the IFCC doesn't seem to want him dead right now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html)

And it's even more curious that every time V said he would need to be dead for the IFCC to get his soul, the IFCC hurridly changed the subject.

It's almost as if they had plans for V right now, or summthin'. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) :smalltongue:

blalien

2009-07-02, 08:09 PM

Porthos

2009-07-02, 08:14 PM

The IFCC didn't want him losing to Xykon because it would be terrible PR. "Shop IFCC, we have a 100% failure rate!" does not a billboard make.

You might be right on that other detail. It is possible the IFCC either knows or believes that V will become much more powerful before he bites the dust.

Actually... I am of the firm belief that this is all tied into the Gate business (exact details to be figured out later). They will somehow use (a very much alive) V as part of a gambit to gain access to a Gate.

And I think having control over a God Killing Abomination is worth a tad more than a couple of piddling epic spellcasters. :smallyuk:

I don't know how long this comic is going to last, but I doubt we will see another dead PC for a very long time.

Well, Belkar* will be releaved to hear that, I suppose. :smallwink:

You think V is going to teleport back to Other Parent and try to sort things out?

V can't teleport anymore, so no. :smallsmile:

* and Durkon, for that matter

Cestrian

2009-07-02, 08:14 PM

The IFCC didn't want him losing to Xykon because it would be terrible PR. "Shop IFCC, we have a 100% failure rate!" does not a billboard make.

You might be right on that other detail. It is possible the IFCC either knows or believes that V will become much more powerful before he bites the dust. I don't know how long this comic is going to last, but I doubt we will see another dead PC for a very long time.

I don't think it matters how powerful V is. If they can take V's soul at any time than they might be able to stick one of their epic souls in V's empty body once they've done so. Which wouldn't be obedient to V's decisions and so would give tham an agent on the mortal plane in a position to really change things.

That's my bet, anyway.

LuisDantas

2009-07-02, 08:21 PM

Is it me, or does V's new hairstyles remind me of Kyrie?

I believe that to be the point, yes.

I hope so, anyway.

blalien

2009-07-02, 08:39 PM

Well, Belkar* will be relieved to hear that, I suppose. :smallwink:

Belkar will draw his last breath, ever? That's a big flashing neon sign that says, "Vampire."

Porthos

2009-07-02, 08:54 PM

Belkar will draw his last breath, ever? That's a big flashing neon sign that says, "Vampire."

You need to be dead before you can become a vampire. :smalltongue:

And, besides, even vampires can make use of IRA's. :smallwink:

More seriously, there's the whole "not long for this world" and everything else The Oracle said in regards to Belkar dying.

Also (and if you don't have access to Origins I'll spoiler this)....

Durkon is fated "to bring death and destruction" to the Dwarven Homeland.

Now combine that with with the fact that he will return to the Dwarven Homeland "posthumously"....

Well, if you want a Blinking Neon Sign that says Undead PC, there you have one. :smallwink:

Be a waste to have two undead PC's, wouldn't you say? :smallbiggrin:

Zevox

2009-07-02, 08:55 PM

Nice new hairstyle on V. And an unexpected development from Durkon - that's new.

Also, pissed-off Tiamat calling the IFCC amuses me. Much nicer way to deal with the inevitable divine anger than having her suddenly out for revenge on V.

Zevox

blalien

2009-07-02, 09:04 PM

Durkon is fated "to bring death and destruction" to the Dwarven Homeland.

I kind of got the impression that was a Biblical-style prophecy. In other words, it was a warning, not a prediction. I could be wrong, though.

Yiuel

2009-07-02, 09:12 PM

I really liked V. S/he was my favorite.

Until s/he made that deal. Somehow, it was cool, but it wasn't V anymore. Hir madness had gone too far for my taste. Reading this new comic just sorted all this out, and made clear the reason why I didn't like V anymore (at least, s/he isn't my favorite. It's Roy now.)

I hope V'll get better and sort all the problems s/he has.

Zevox

2009-07-02, 09:15 PM

"Oh my gods" probably isn't a phrase you'd hear often in the IFCC offices...
Why not? Fiends frequently work with or serve evil gods, and sometimes work with neutral ones, last I checked.

Zevox

Porthos

2009-07-02, 09:17 PM

I kind of got the impression that was a Biblical-style prophecy. In other words, it was a warning, not a prediction. I could be wrong, though.

Considering that they immediately worry about how "risky business it is to screw with prophecy" I am sure that they are aware of all of the possibilities.

However, they are unaware of one salient fact. Well, two. The first is that there is a very high likelihood that Kragar's Gate is somewhere in the Dwarven Homeland. And it's probably more likely than not that the OotS will eventually have to go to that gate for a Final Stand.

And if Xykon is also going to that Gate for a Final Confrontation... Well there is your "death and destruction". The fact that Xykon leads hordes of undead plus the fact that Durkon will be arriving back home "posthumously" is what is leading some people to speculate that Durkon becomes undead at some point.

It's certainly not a given. But it's got decent odds at the moment. :smallwink:

There is another salient fact that the Dwarven High Priests are unaware of. And that's the fact that the prior High Priest never bothered to tell his underlings about WHY Durkon needs to stay away from the Dwarven Homeland. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html). Thus there might not be anyone around to warn Durkon away.

BTW: The exact wording of Odin's High Priest's Prophecy is:

"You have a young cleric named Durkon Thundershield in your temple. When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all."

So, yes, if he never returns home, then there is no death and destruction. Which was the whole reason for the High Priest's gambit. He figured if he banished Durkon and he never returned, then there would be no problem. However The Oracle of the Sunken Valley has also prophesied that Durkon will return home one day. He'll just be dead when he does it.

Is that enuf to skirt the first prophecy? Well since it's "risky business to screw with prophecy", I tend to doubt it. :smallwink:

Siosilvar

2009-07-02, 09:37 PM

Durkon is fated "to bring death and destruction" to the Dwarven Homeland.

Now combine that with with the fact that he will return to the Dwarven Homeland "posthumously"....

Of course he's going to bring death. He'll be dead when he gets back. Posthumously doesn't mean after something funny, after all. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html)

As for destruction... decomposition?

Y'nokhs

2009-07-02, 09:41 PM

Love V's new hair style - when Haley lost the pigtail, it's spirit must have been passed on.

And if Tiamat's ticked off enough to spewing breath weapons through the phone, then the IFCC has some pretty big damage control on their hands.

Warren Dew

2009-07-02, 09:47 PM

This is the first time I have looked at V and thought "young elf". In earlier pictures, I would have had no trouble believing V was middle-aged at least. Since V is supposed to be young, it would thus count as an improvement.

Haven't you heard? Only old guys wear pony tails these days.

Well, and six year old girls, but that's not the impression I think Vaarsuvius is trying to give.

Porthos

2009-07-02, 09:49 PM

Of course he's going to bring death. He'll be dead when he gets back. Posthumously doesn't mean after something funny, after all. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html)

As for destruction... decomposition?

"... to us all".

So, what, Durkon's gonna bring a contagious disease when he's dead? :smalltongue:

BadAndyMk3

2009-07-02, 10:14 PM

When i first read the comic, I had assumed that the fiends didn't work for Tiamat; they were contacting her to make a sale. Imagine what they could do with a favor from a god.

aarondirebear

2009-07-02, 10:28 PM

Yeah. For some reason, I found it very amusing that Tiamat was a Ms.

Surprised that Tiamat is FEMALE or that she's an UNMARRIED one?

harami2000

2009-07-02, 10:51 PM

It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

And Durkon bought that; without even the explanation of time-limited "wishes" or equivalent? Yes, indeed... (So much for clerical wisdom :smallwink:).

Hmmm, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11... Ms. Tiamat is almost Fibonacci-like there [the last would be 13 in such a case....]
Dante doesn't borrow from Fibonacci: 13 for Purgatory, 11 for Inferno, anyhow. *jk*

Neat last panel. Did T dial call collect, or will she pick up the bill? :smalltongue:

Cryssandra

2009-07-02, 10:54 PM

In regards to Xykon not being a bigger problem than Tiamat, if Xykon gains control of the god-killing Snarl like he wants he quickly becomes a bigger problem. Might even be able to control the gods.

Yeah....
But If Xykon Gains control of the God-Killing Snarl.... He will be an UNDEFEATABLE problem....
At least too big for The Order of the Stick.... and the Gods

Zevox

2009-07-02, 10:59 PM

When i first read the comic, I had assumed that the fiends didn't work for Tiamat; they were contacting her to make a sale. Imagine what they could do with a favor from a god.
Er, why on earth would you assume either of those? It seems obvious to me that Tiamat is calling because she's pissed about V wiping out a full quarter of the Black Dragons on the Prime. What on earth in the comic would lead you to believe the IFCC contacted her? Or even more ridiculously, that they work for her?

Zevox

Hacktor

2009-07-02, 11:01 PM

Great comic.. I an still rolling on the floor from thar tiamat joke at the end. :smallbiggrin:

Blaznak

2009-07-02, 11:25 PM

Ok, it wasn't much, but my favorite line was "Oy"

NakedCelt

2009-07-02, 11:25 PM

Haley and Roy, Vaarsuvius and Durkon... so #668 is going to be some kind of wrap-up conversation between Elan and Belkar? Well, that should be amusing.

Sijo

2009-07-02, 11:41 PM

This strip was a nice surprise. I was expecting V to be interrogated about what happened, and either condemned by the rest, or keeping important facts for himself. (Well, he IS keeping the fact his soul is, umm, on a lease, but I didn't expect him to reveal that now anyway.)

The important thing is, the conversation with Durkon proves that he and V are true friends, and they both have learned from the recent events. In particular, V seems over the guilt for having failed to help the Azurites. I'm glad about that.

So the IFCC are splitting the minutes of control over V among themselves? That means they are likely going to take control in separate moments. Since (presumably) they intend to do it when V is close to a Gate, I wonder how they'll decide who gets control when? Maybe they'll throw dice. :P Of course, being EVIL, they *will* betray each other at some point. Evil unity never lasts, that's why good always wins in the end. :smallwink:

Scarlet Knight

2009-07-02, 11:46 PM

Durkon is still the only one without a life changing sidequest though.

Durkon had his moment in the sun with Hilgya. We understood Miko's misguided lawful goodness later because of how it contrasted with Durkon's.

It is right that he remains as unchanging as the stone that formed the first dwarves. He remains wise & kindly, like an old Scottish uncle.

Ultimate Dragon

2009-07-02, 11:58 PM

um mallornwood it doesn't show how angry tiamat is by there being 5 lines used. the tiamat has 5 heads each a different element. heh i was bored and read through an old monster manual the other day

Selene

2009-07-03, 12:06 AM

By the gods, I do so love Durkon. :smallsmile:

In comic 666, he is wearing different clothes. Though these are likely his real ones.

That's the same outfit Roy's had all along. He wore it on his date w/ Celia.

HZ514

2009-07-03, 12:06 AM

Yeah....
But If Xykon Gains control of the God-Killing Snarl.... He will be an UNDEFEATABLE problem....
At least too big for The Order of the Stick.... and the Gods

But not for O-Chul. Hehe.

Bookworm702

2009-07-03, 12:26 AM

Great comic, holding on five lines hahaha.

The plot thickens, what could their purposes be?

Now cue the V is a girl based on hair style threads.

Actually, maybe it was just me, but i think that he doesn't look like a girl. When I saw kyrie's ponytail, I thought "chick ponytail" and when I saw V I thought " guy ponytail". I guess there's just a subtle nuance that distinguishes it... or maybe im just crazy.:smallwink:

DaegorDude

2009-07-03, 12:44 AM

brionl

2009-07-03, 12:53 AM

Have you never heard of the Scrunchie of Concentration?

Like in Nodwick?
"It's a Ring of Protection +3"
"Dibs"
"...nipple ring of protection"
"Pass"

theboredone

2009-07-03, 01:00 AM

44 minutes, 16 seconds, total. And the time does not appear to be measured in rounds.

Your math is off.
the 3 min 6 seconds is how long the necromancer remained tied to V for the splice. The 20 min 35 sec is how long the other 2 stayed spliced to V.

44min and 16 seconds is how long total V has to be in service to the demons.
3 min 6 seconds for the one who spliced the necromancer.
20min and 6 seconds for the 2 who spliced the other 2.

20 min and 35 seconds is the maximum time that V spent with any of the splices. Please correct me if my math is off to.

Reechlard

2009-07-03, 01:15 AM

Kinda makes me wonder who's on line 1,4,6,7,9, and 10.:smallconfused:

NakedCelt

2009-07-03, 01:17 AM

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Whoa.

Everything that happened was amazing and all, but according to 650 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html) and now, that whole thing lasted about 53 seconds?

Define "that whole thing". The splices ended at 653 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html); I'm guessing the clock stopped then. Talking is a free action, as we know, so yeah, nine rounds seems about right.

baerdith

2009-07-03, 01:18 AM

gmatht

2009-07-03, 01:27 AM

Hmmm, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11... Ms. Tiamat is almost Fibonacci-like there [the last would be 13 in such a case....]

I think that this *is* from the Fibonacci sequence: 112358 -> 11,2,3,5,8 -> 2,3,5,8,11. It wouldn't be correct to say that Ms. Tiamat was on lines 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, even if line 1 was a conference call with multiple heads. :smallbiggrin:

Kairamek

2009-07-03, 01:33 AM

factotum

2009-07-03, 01:40 AM

Unlike David Argall, I don't think that the IFCC are going to be able to smooth over Tiamat's anger that easily. Tiamat can't intervene directly on the mortal plane, but she can certainly tell her clerics to look out for an elf wizard in a purple robe and deal with him appropriately when they find him!

Hrairoo

2009-07-03, 01:55 AM

yay! welcome back v, we missed you! and we love your new hairstyle!

oh, and btw, hilarious how ms tiamat can keep the operater busy all by her lonesome... hehe :smallamused:

SoC175

2009-07-03, 02:07 AM

Yeah....
But If Xykon Gains control of the God-Killing Snarl.... He will be an UNDEFEATABLE problem....
At least too big for The Order of the Stick.... and the Gods
SoD spoiler: Xykon can't get controll of the Snarl. No one, including the gods, can controll the Snarl. Redcloak lied to Xykon about the true plan

Omegonthesane

2009-07-03, 02:10 AM

Yeah....
But If Xykon Gains control of the God-Killing Snarl.... He will be an UNDEFEATABLE problem....
At least too big for The Order of the Stick.... and the Gods

Not unbeatable for the gods. They will probably just have to unweave the prison, let the Snarl free, and make World 3.0. But I agree, we don't want it to come to that.

motub

2009-07-03, 02:13 AM

Also, I thought V's headband was... solid?
I just got this, actually (since I thought that too)--- V is an elf.

Remember the qualities of Elven rope? Well, naturally they'd make Elven string as well..... I guess that's what V ties around hir head, or now uses to tie back hir hair. I like the new hairdo; hope shi keeps it. It kinda symbolizes V being just as dedicated/focussed, but not so danged fussy about it (prioritizing).

Plus, thinking that it was probably Elven string.... quite possible that it was physically uncomfortable while under the effects of the Splice.... evil creatures don't like the touch of Elven rope, and even though V wasn't evil as such hirself, having 3 out of the 4 souls occupying your body be evil must count for something, and the distraction of an itchy/stingy Elven string around one's forehead couldn't be helpful in maintaining the needed concentration to hold the splices.

Huh.

I really doubt that the Tiamat thing is going to have any further repercussions other than that joke.
Hey, don't go dissin' Tiamat! She is after all, a God!

Pissing off a God is not "just a joke". But I am really glad that Tiamat is not going to be a "loose cannon" and take her own revenge (that was the problem that the ABD had, so good that the ABD's God is not going to make the same mistake), but is "going through channels" appropriately, which suggests, actually, that Tiamat will in fact be appearing in the next book for a significant arc, if her revenge/punishment is coordinated with the Fiends' plan. "Obviously" the Fiends are going to have to cut her a deal, or include her in the plan in some way (if she wasn't already included, and the Familicide was a violation in excess of the sacrifice she had originally agreed to permit, which is also possible), and it could happen that (if the story winds up not supporting it, or goes another way), that the Fiends just "pay her off" so that she doesn't appear. But it's also possible (and possibly more likely) that the contents of the call will be to negotiate how Tiamat can get her "just due" from V without borking the Fiends' rights and privileges to V's soul.... or indeed to negotiate a "perk" from the Fiends (since she deserves one, having overpaid for whatever reward she has been promised when the Fiends accomplish whatever it is they're doing) so that she can, for example, decimate 1/4 of the Elf population, as V decimated 1/4 of the Black Dragon population. That would be a heck of an arc, which would have a lot of benefits, story-wise.

But.... just a joke? Ha, Tiamat is an ancient God, and is "spitting mad", literally (and hilariously). That is so not "nothing but a joke".

Well, it seems like the "cooldown" comics are "one-on-ones", we've got just Elan and Belkar left, though I can't imagine what they might have to say to each other. In fact, I don't know who Belkar has to say anything to (since Haley-- who does have something to say to him, but has already had her "turn" with Roy-- can't say anything to hm, since that would reveal that she knows his character development is fake). Elan has some things to say to V (and probably vice-versa), but even though V deserves a "double turn" (or even a triple one, given that shi has a conversation with Roy coming as well, but that can wait and be used as exposition in the start of the next book), I think we are all relieved enough that the V-centric arc has reached a resting place, that we wouldn't so much want to see another "wall o' text" featuring V and now Elan in place of Durkon.

So maybe everybody will just come sit on the hill with Haley and Roy, and enjoy being together while the sun sets (again signifying the end of a book), and giving us a nice opportunity for a cast shot, and we're out of here till "tomorrow" (when various forms of crap hit the rotating ventilator) :smallsmile:.

Love how the Giant always manages to pull complete even-handedness out of the events, even when one (I) thinks it's not remotely possible. It never occurred to me that Durkon might be impressed by V's accomplishments.... but then it never occurred to me that possibly he knows as little about the potential of arcane magic as V knows about the potential of divine magic.

Really enjoyed this comic, much more than I was expecting to, in fact :smallsmile:.

Pandabear

2009-07-03, 03:19 AM

I lolled at the multiple lines for Tiamat.. :smallbiggrin:

warmachine

2009-07-03, 04:03 AM

Vaarsuvius's new hairstyle still doesn't give us any clues about his/her/its gender. Damn you, Rich Burlew! Damn you!

The Pilgrim

2009-07-03, 04:04 AM

So, definitely, Tiamat is pissed... :smallbiggrin:

But that was sort of a gag, though. I dunno it's gonna play a significant role in the plot.

Puschkin

2009-07-03, 04:55 AM

I wonder why V is refreshed all of the sudden. by the time she got the soul splice she hadn't "slept" for weeks or months even, big red eyes, dark under-eye circles, confused and all ... nothing of that is left. I thought he/she would just say a few words and then instantly rest for a week or two as soon as (s)he is back and knows that everybody is in safety.

Azukar

2009-07-03, 05:01 AM

Vaarsuvius's new hairstyle still doesn't give us any clues about his/her/its gender. Damn you, Rich Burlew! Damn you!

I've always steered clear of the ridiculous gender debate. That said, the first time I looked at V's new look, he somehow seemed to lean more on the male side of things. This might just be because the ear reminds me of Pompey.

Mannryu

2009-07-03, 05:05 AM

Vaarsuvius with a ponytail? NICE!! I hope it stays that way :smallbiggrin:
So Tiamat is pissed off huh... This can be bad.

Jimorian

2009-07-03, 05:12 AM

One factor RE: Tiamat. The fiends gave V the soul splice knowing that it was going to be used against at least one black dragon. Assuming they knew the spell lists of the souls, familicide was a distinct possible outcome as well.

It could be that Tiamat is more angry at them than V, but that's usually not how grudges between higher powers like this works, so I'm still guessing V is still going to be the actual target of any godly venting.

Majutsukai

2009-07-03, 05:17 AM

Morquard

2009-07-03, 05:38 AM

Your math is off.
the 3 min 6 seconds is how long the necromancer remained tied to V for the splice. The 20 min 35 sec is how long the other 2 stayed spliced to V.

44min and 16 seconds is how long total V has to be in service to the demons.
3 min 6 seconds for the one who spliced the necromancer.
20min and 6 seconds for the 2 who spliced the other 2.

20 min and 35 seconds is the maximum time that V spent with any of the splices. Please correct me if my math is off to.
The point is, a round is 6 seconds in DnD. AKA 1 minute is 10 rounds exactly.
3 minutes and 6 seconds is therefore exactly 31 rounds.
but 20 minutes and 35 secs doesn't work. (36 sec would be a full round)

So either its a typo from the Giant, or an indication that the splices where knocked out of V before the round was over. He was about to cast Teleport and got hit by a Smash of Opportunity. Or... the Giant simply didn't pay attention to it, and just picked some numbers.

JustRain

2009-07-03, 06:41 AM

AWESOME! A great strip.

GaaSaku-rules

2009-07-03, 06:43 AM

Very nice little strip with a good ominous ending.

Hopefully V will soon contact Kyrie to let him/her know that he/she is ok and/or apologise.

factotum

2009-07-03, 06:51 AM

I wonder why V is refreshed all of the sudden. by the time she got the soul splice she hadn't "slept" for weeks or months even, big red eyes, dark under-eye circles, confused and all ... nothing of that is left.

The fiends specifically stated that the splice would rejuvenate V (including allowing him to replenish his spell slots without having to trance)...I guess the rejuvenating effect remained even though the splices are all gone.

Shatteredtower

2009-07-03, 07:02 AM

Aw, V. After a moment like that, I just want to...

...kick the thrice-damned moron in the head.

It hasn't once crossed the elf's mind that actions committed within the last hour (let me emphasize "within" before anyone comments on 20 minutes and 35 seconds) might possibly have drastic consequences for the rest of the team, hmm? Even if there's only a remote chance of this going south for everyone, this is not the sort of thing one should keep private.

Earning a kick in the rear now would have been better than what's going to happen when someone comes looking to kick in teeth, even if there's no way to avoid the latter.

prufock

2009-07-03, 07:04 AM

Durkon is always fantastically written.

Sotris

2009-07-03, 07:26 AM

GreatWyrmGold

2009-07-03, 08:01 AM

Why did Tiamat take up 5 lines instead of 5 phones on the same line?
Oh, yeah, for the punchline.
Also, the breath weapons were a nice touch.

warmachine

2009-07-03, 08:37 AM

As Tiamat is clearly angry, it is interesting that the director's secretary didn't first ask the directors whether they'd take the call. Secretaries routinely lie to unimportant people about someone not being available. This suggests Tiamat has the political or social power to make the fiend's lives uncomfortable if she wanted to.

Gamerlord

2009-07-03, 08:46 AM

HILARIOUS!

When I first saw this comic I thought that Timat was angry because she wanted some time with the Elf, but then I Remembered all those black dragons....

Oracles not gonna be happy next time he sees the OOTS.

Azura

2009-07-03, 08:48 AM

Eric O'Really

2009-07-03, 08:59 AM

ouch, v should really tell them allready. ^^
and nice art upgrade for him. is that yellow thing his headband of intellect? was it ever a headband of intellect or just a regular headband?

also we know how much time he owns to the fiends. i would say, 27 minutes are not that bad, but i think we all know better than that. :smallamused:

Mr. Scaly

2009-07-03, 09:05 AM

The word 'boned' does not BEGIN to describe V's current situation. :smallsmile: Depending on just how vengeful Miss T is, or if the IFCC can placate her...

Shatteredtower

2009-07-03, 09:28 AM

It's possible that V fell for the fiends' bluff, and actually believes that the dominion on his soul by them will be posthumously- so he thinks it's just a personal problem.

Sure, that's quite likely. The problem is that V has also managed to stir up two other hornet's nests with Xykon and Tiamat.

I can even understand how V is oblivious to all three of these events. It's well within character. Nevertheless, it's annoying.

Granted, some of the bitterness I'm feeling is because...

...this strip might touch on the means by which Durkon will fulfill two prophecies. We already know the kind of death and destruction V, with the right backers, is capable of delivering.

Sijo

2009-07-03, 09:48 AM

Something just occurred to me: Tiamat might not be calling the IFCC to complain about the familicide.

She might be working with them!

Remember, Tiamat grants the Oracle's ability to see the future, in an apparently perfect way. Now, why would she give such an ability to an underling unless she had (or could give to herself) the same thing?

This means, TIAMAT KNOWS EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN! (That had to include the dragon genocide.)

While I'm sure she's pissed over losing so many dragons, being evil, she probably cares more about getting control over the Snarl.

I do *not* like this idea. I hate unchangeable futures or all-knowing characters. Plus, no version of Tiamat I've ever seen had such perfect foresight. I'd prefer to think that the Oracle gift *somehow* only works for him though Tiamat grants it.

...Though that still would allow her to question him as needed, no?

Let's see if Rick addresses this...

Shatteredtower

2009-07-03, 09:52 AM

I'm also a bit confused about how some readers don't understand that the point of "Ms" is that a woman's marital status is generally none of your business. Those who use the term use neither Mrs nor Miss to describe themselves.

Stanfield22

2009-07-03, 09:59 AM

I'm not about to surge into a winded debate about this, but I'm of the belief that Tiamat only has CERTAIN aspects of control over seeing the future. The Oracle's messages to the heroes are generally pretty cryptic (which we all know led Belkar to kill that mangy little Kobold), but I wouldn't be led to believe that Tiamat's not dispensing everything she has to the Oracle; after all the Oracle itself (herself?) is a gift to the draconic races, and therefore, little more than a servant, one could presume.

I could further this by believing that Tiamat's powers have certain extension over the draconic races; hence the Lizardmen popping up at the opportune time to resurrect the Oracle, followed by receiving info on when next to return.

Knowing everything = a form of omnipotence. I don't think any of the gods have that kind of power.

Rhuna_Coppermane

2009-07-03, 10:00 AM

*applause*

Analysis will wait until I have time to read through the thread.

The Shadow

2009-07-03, 10:01 AM

Takhisis... I mean Tiamat on five lines. BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHA*snort*HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAAHAHA

As a fan of Dragonlance I am naturally a fan of Takhisis and that extends to the OGL remake of her in Tiamat (nicely adapted to OotS). That's awesome stuff right there.

...

OGL remake?

Huh? Tiamat (the D&D dragon goddess, not the Babylonian one) dates back to the AD&D Monster Manual. The Dragonlance reworking of her as Takhisis came well after.

ednarimal

2009-07-03, 10:07 AM

The point is, a round is 6 seconds in DnD. AKA 1 minute is 10 rounds exactly.
3 minutes and 6 seconds is therefore exactly 31 rounds.
but 20 minutes and 35 secs doesn't work. (36 sec would be a full round)

So either its a typo from the Giant, or an indication that the splices where knocked out of V before the round was over. He was about to cast Teleport and got hit by a Smash of Opportunity. Or... the Giant simply didn't pay attention to it, and just picked some numbers.

actually, 20 minutes 35 seconds is exactly 9 rounds after 19 minutes 41 seconds(the time the splices quoted before V teleported to Xykon), so the important time was measured in rounds, but somewhere between killing the dragon and teleporting to Xykon, V's initiative changed, simple as that

Wanderer

2009-07-03, 10:12 AM

Dear me, Tiamat is mighty unhappy. Apparently she was immune to the familicide (which is probably the only reason any dragons are still alive at all anywhere in the world(s)) but I'd say she is still quite displeased at what just happened to a whole bunch of her children. V really didn't think of that, did he? From what I've read about Tiamat, she probably isn't going to care much about the fiends' long-term plans for evil. She could easily choose to just obliterate V, his family, and probably the entire hemisphere they're in just for good measure.

Really, irritating a chaotic evil goddess is just begging for it.

Vargtass

2009-07-03, 10:26 AM

Dear me, Tiamat is mighty unhappy. Apparently she was immune to the familicide (which is probably the only reason any dragons are still alive at all anywhere in the world(s)) but I'd say she is still quite displeased at what just happened to a whole bunch of her children.

Familicide had a limited range of targets, killing an estimated fourth of the Black Dragon population. Nowhere were V near targeting all dragons, or Tiamat herself (not being a black dragon, but rather, you know, a goddess...)

Mariel Dragon

2009-07-03, 10:59 AM

Hmm, reading the first page, I wonder why you'd think the yellow field would be the one with 3 minutes time only.
I read from the gestures that the violet fiend is the one with the least time. And looking through the archives, he was the one who provided Haerta, so that would make sense.

DBear

2009-07-03, 11:29 AM

Well, it seems like the "cooldown" comics are "one-on-ones", we've got just Elan and Belkar left, though I can't imagine what they might have to say to each other. In fact, I don't know who Belkar has to say anything to (since Haley-- who does have something to say to him, but has already had her "turn" with Roy-- can't say anything to hm, since that would reveal that she knows his character development is fake). :.

Back in the early days of the comic, Elan and Belkar seemed to have a Beavis and Butthead relationship (the strip where they drew on Roy comes to mind). Or Elan could thank Belkar for not abandoning Haley.

hollywoodb1

2009-07-03, 11:41 AM

I do not like the ponytail on V.

M84

2009-07-03, 11:54 AM

Heyall,

Just curious - How would a typical Good-aligned cleric react to the news that one of his teammates made a deal with a triumvirate of infernal beings in order to add the power of three very evil spellcasters to his/her own, and the fact that he/she owes each of those beings favors?

M84

Yoyoyo

2009-07-03, 12:54 PM

Great comic. I missed :durkon: too.

Not to spoil anyone's theories, but isn't it possible that the Tiamat line is just a last panel joke and not the start of some uber problem for V? Aren't the fiends enough for her to deal with and isn't Xykon (and the Linear Guild, for that matter) and the Snarl enough for the Order to deal with? They hardly need a new big bad.

HandofShadows

2009-07-03, 12:55 PM

Familicide had a limited range of targets, killing an estimated fourth of the Black Dragon population. Nowhere were V near targeting all dragons, or Tiamat herself (not being a black dragon, but rather, you know, a goddess...)

Actually the spell tatgeted the FAMILY of the Black Dragon. After all we see half dragons getting killed as well. It was teh relationships to mama dragon that decided if you where effected. That's also why V had to undead the mama dragon as she needed a "taget" for the spell to work.

Kish

2009-07-03, 01:08 PM

That's also why V had to undead the mama dragon as she needed a "taget" for the spell to work.
There is no indication in the comic that the spell required the ancient black dragon to be undead (or required anything but a corpse). Casting the spell on a corpse would, however, have been as pointless as if Redcloak had killed O-Chul and then waterboarded his inanimate corpse. Torture requires a victim who can suffer.

Not to spoil anyone's theories, but isn't it possible that the Tiamat line is just a last panel joke and not the start of some uber problem for V?
See, now, posts like this are why I thought theburningfield was completely serious about the whistle being Elan's happy ending.

Rich doesn't sabotage his own drama and logic the way you're proposing. He never has.

Ceannaideach

2009-07-03, 01:53 PM

And if Xykon is also going to that Gate for a Final Confrontation... Well there is your "death and destruction". The fact that Xykon leads hordes of undead plus the fact that Durkon will be arriving back home "posthumously" is what is leading some people to speculate that Durkon becomes undead at some point.

It's certainly not a given. But it's got decent odds at the moment. :smallwink:

There is another salient fact that the Dwarven High Priests are unaware of. And that's the fact that the prior High Priest never bothered to tell his underlings about WHY Durkon needs to stay away from the Dwarven Homeland. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html). Thus there might not be anyone around to warn Durkon away.

BTW: The exact wording of Odin's High Priest's Prophecy is:

"You have a young cleric named Durkon Thundershield in your temple. When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all."

So, yes, if he never returns home, then there is no death and destruction. Which was the whole reason for the High Priest's gambit. He figured if he banished Durkon and he never returned, then there would be no problem. However The Oracle of the Sunken Valley has also prophesied that Durkon will return home one day. He'll just be dead when he does it.

Is that enuf to skirt the first prophecy? Well since it's "risky business to screw with prophecy", I tend to doubt it. :smallwink:

And the wording of Durkon's question was how will I Finally be returning to the Dwarven homelands. Given the Oracle's pedantic nature (Where's Xykon? In his Throne room.) when it comes to word games and asking the right question. I think that there's plenty of opportunity for Durkon to bring death and destruction to the Dwarven Homelands before he dies and then finally returns to the Dwarven Homeland for a true Dwarven funeral.

Kish

2009-07-03, 01:58 PM

And also--unlike for Belkar, who is prophesied to take his last breath ever and then not be in the world--plenty of room for Durkon to die, return to the dwarven homeland, and then be resurrected.

derfenrirwolv

2009-07-03, 02:04 PM

As a fan of Dragonlance I am naturally a fan of Takhisis and that extends to the OGL remake of her in Tiamat (nicely adapted to OotS). That's awesome stuff right there.

Somewhere, a geek who lived through the 80's and a mythology teacher are crying. Or is crying, since they could be the same person.

First of all, Tiamat is an ancient goddess. She's in some of our earliest surviving literature, so she predates dragonlance by more than a few years.

Also, this is a picture of her from the Dungeons and dragons cartoon circa 1983. a year before dragonlance was published.

http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/2599/tiamat.gif

Which I'm sure got some inspiration from a deities and demigods

David Argall

2009-07-03, 02:09 PM

Oracles not gonna be happy next time he sees the OOTS.
The Oracle is not likely to see the party again. In fact he is very unlikely to appear in the story again.
The Oracle said Roy would forget things he has not forgotten. The Oracle, by his nature is not going to be wrong on such a point. The easiest way to resolve such an inconsistency is for Oracle and Roy to never meet again, meaning the Oracle would never become aware that Roy would remember, and would have no reason to look into the future to be sure, instead just assuming the same thing would happen to Roy as to every other visitor.
We can add that the Oracle is on another continent, and the plot seems to not be coming back to the South. So don't expect to see the Oracle again except maybe as a cutaway joke.

The problem is that V has also managed to stir up two other hornet's nests with Xykon and Tiamat.

The party will be well aware of the fuss with Xykon, but nobody is aware of how soon Xykon is going to be on the move, including Xykon. So it is indefinite if V speeded up or slowed down his activity.
As for the dragons, V assumes she has killed all the dragons who might take an interest in him, and so there will be no response because all who might be interested are dead. In essence, V is assuming a clan of dragons with little connection to other clans of dragons. If all of the clan dies, the other clans may be shocked, but they have no strong reason to go to war over the subject, just as few nations actually intervene because of mass slaughters inside a country or in a war between countries. Most of the critics are assuming the dragons are largely one big mixture and the killing of 1/4 of them means that just about every dragon will know a dragon who has been killed. The picture of the spell going everywhere in the world tends to support this. However much of mankind lives in a clan structure with distinctly limited contact with other clans, and V's idea is not to be ruled out.
In any case, V is assuming there will be no response, and is quite likely right, tho not necessarily for the reasons she thinks.

There is no indication in the comic that the spell required the ancient black dragon to be undead (or required anything but a corpse).
There is also no indication in the comic that the spell didn't. We see two spells being cast. We are not told why both were cast. Given the spell is grossly overpowered, a limit requiring a spell focus of "living" dragon is entirely reasonable. The idea that V just wanted an audience for his spell seems a bit of a waste. The dragon was dead and harmless either way.

Rich doesn't sabotage his own drama and logic the way you're proposing. He never has.
How is this being a one-panel joke any sort of sabotage? The panel works fine in eliminating a plot problem from the dragon-killing being too big for the story. And any revenge by Tiamat or the dragons seems way too likely to derail the plot.

Acacia OnnaStik

2009-07-03, 02:11 PM

Great page. I wasn't looking forward to seeing V lectured some more; he knows he did wrong, and now he needs encouragement. Durkon is love. :smallbiggrin:

But, alas, he's not off the hook yet. The theory that the IFCC plan to use their debt to control him while he's still alive is looking likelier all the time... :smalleek:

Majutsukai

2009-07-03, 02:17 PM

Torture requires a victim who can suffer.

Whoa, whoa, hold up. Who said anything about torture?

The express purpose of V using Familicide was to prevent retaliation and protect his family, not to inflict anything more than incidental suffering on the dragon herself. (Said incidental suffering, though, I can totally see V not caring about.) I didn't see anything suggesting otherwise, and V seemed pretty clear about his motives.

The way I understood it was, a dead dragon head is a dead dragon head. Nothing more than an inanimate pile of meat. But with a soul present--i.e., if the head is reanimated-- the dragon could act as a focus for the spell, so it knows what to target. And a reanimated dragon head is significantly less likely to rip you in two while you cast the spell than a living Black Dragon.

Kish

2009-07-03, 02:20 PM

Whoa, whoa, hold up. Who said anything about torture?
Vaarsuvius and his/her splices, since you ask.

"The pain ended too soon."
"We have only begun to bring misery."
"There is still so much we can do."
"I concur. Create Greater Undead!"
"Now no one will come to avenge your defeat. No one will lament your passing. Think about the fate you have brought upon your family as you suffer in the afterlife. This--and no less--is the price of threatening my family."

The focus of Vaarsuvius' actions is not ambiguous at all. Some people on this board grabbed onto a very feeble excuse I doubt Vaarsuvius himself/herself believes, and are treating it as an authoritative statement of motive powerful enough to negate all Vaarsuvius' clear assertions of sadism and egomania. (Setting aside, for the moment, the fact that, as a glance at the last panel of strip #667 should tell anyone, for the purpose of "protecting family from revenge," what Vaarsuvius did was about as good as throwing rocket fuel on a fire to put it out.) Some of those people have also moved on to asserting as an established fact that Vaarsuvius could not have cast Familicide without first animating the head.