[4e] July Updates

[Gralamin]

We've got a new Update (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJuly2009.pdf) which hilariously nerfs some of the most broken options in the game.

We still need a replacement for Orb of Imposition though.

[Kurald Galain]

I am impressed. Those are good fixes by WOTC (and, if you believe the common clamor on the Gleemax board, necessary ones).

I'm also surprised they did nothing about the orb of imposition, and certain self-stacking extra-attack-on-a-crit effects.

[Break]

We've got a new Update (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJuly2009.pdf) which hilariously nerfs some of the most broken options in the game.

We still need a replacement for Orb of Imposition though.

About. Damn. Time. These issues have needed addressing for a long time.

Now how long have we been waiting for these mostly common-sense nerfs? Especially on Rain of Blows, as that one staying unchanged for so long is just hilariously bad. Not sure if it needed the damage nerf, though.

Guileful Switch not granting extra turns, fine.

RRoT getting the beatstick, finally. Though I'm still concerned that they haven't struck out the clause that your swordmage warding drops when you do - it's been a common houserule in pretty much every 4E game I've been in.

Dual Strike requiring separate targets is eh. At least it doesn't step on the ranger's toes.

Battlerager temp HP no longer stacks at all. Fine. Along with a couple of changes to battlerager feats that I can't be arsed to compare to the original material, and that basically rounds out the long-awaited update.

Now for them to actually fix Demigod and the Orb. I'll give it another six months before it's even on the table, let alone released.

[Shadow_Elf]

Glad to see Righteous Cheese of Tempus and Rain of Blows errata'd. Dual Strike is better now, IMHO, than it was pre-errata, as now the fighter can mark more enemies with it, doing his job instead of pretending to be a striker.

And yes, an Orb of Imposition fix would be nice.

[Gralamin]

Also something new thats nice, In the individual errata files an explanation for new changes are there. Let me dig them all out...



Rain of Blows [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 79
Replace “Primary Target” with “Target.” Delete “+ Strength modifier” from the first Hit line. Delete
the Secondary Target, Secondary Attack, and Hit lines under the Weapon line, remove the
Weapon line’s indent, and replace that line with the following:
Weapon: If you’re wielding a flail, a light blade, or a spear and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make
the attack a third time against either the target or a different creature.
Explanation: This revision updates damage to bring this power in line with other fighter powers and it
improves formatting to clarify that the power allows three attacks at most.



Righteous Rage of Tempus [Revision]
Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide, page 136
Replace the Effect line with the following:
Effect: If you hit with the next weapon attack that you make before the end of your next turn and
it isn't a critical hit, you roll the extra damage dice that you would roll if you scored a critical hit
and deal the result as extra damage. If the attack is a critical hit, its extra damage is maximized.
Explanation: This revision updates the Effect line to reflect damage expectations and baseline for
channel divinity feats. This revision limits the power of builds created to optimize critical hits.




Battlerager Vigor [Deletion/Revision]
Martial Power, page 6
Delete the first two paragraphs and replace them with the following:
Whenever you hit an enemy with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to
your Constitution modifier, plus any temporary hit points normally granted by the power.
If you use an invigorating fighter attack power and miss every target with it, you gain temporary
hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.
Explanation: The first two paragraphs of original text were removed because they allowed the
battlerager to gain excessive temporary hit points and thus ignore most standard monster attacks and
all minion attacks.

Dual Strike [Revision]
Martial Power, page 7
Replace the powerʼs Target, Attack, and Hit lines with the following:
Primary Target: One creature
Primary Attack: Strength vs. AC (main weapon)
Hit: 1[W] damage.
Effect: Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: One creature other than the primary target
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC (off-hand weapon)
Hit: 1[W] damage.
Explanation: This revision updates the power’s format for clarity, and it revises the Hit line to exclude
“Strength modifier” in damage so that the fighter is not achieving striker level damage with this attack.

Guileful Switch [Revision]
Martial Power, page 107
Replace “Minor Action” with “Free Action.” Add the following line above the Effect line:
Requirement: You must use this power during your turn before you take any other actions.
Explanation: This revision updates the action type and adds a requirement. This revision prevents a
character from using this power to gain extra actions by switching with an ally after expending a move
and a standard action during his or her turn.

Dwarf Stoneblood [Revision]
Martial Power, page 133
Replace the Benefit line with the following:
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to the number of temporary hit points you gain from using
an invigorating power. The bonus increases to 4 at 11th level and 6 at 21st level.
Explanation: This update revises the previous Benefit line to work with revised Battlerager Vigor class
feature.

Improved Vigor [Revision]
Martial Power, page 136
Replace the Benefit line with the following:
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the number of temporary hit points you gain from using
an invigorating power. The bonus increases to 2 at 11th level and 3 at 21st level.
Explanation: This update revises the previous Benefit line to work with revised Battlerager Vigor class
feature.

[Break]

I like the explanations' presence, if only because we finally get to see the devs' thought processes.

[Kurald Galain]

Let's see...

Rain of Blows changes from "must take this, and multiclass to fighter to do that" to "decent but not great". It certainly isn't worth it without the "high dex and weapon" extra, but with that it is still a dual-mark with decent damage. Plus this ends the debate on unclear wording.

Righteous Rage of Tempus was also a much-needed change. It is still one of the best Channel Divinity feats even with the nerf, but now it's on par with e.g. the rogue multiclass.

Battlerage Vigor was insane without the nerf. As it stands now it is fairly unimpressive; the two feats for it certainly are no longer worth it mechanically, and the build as a whole feels slightly behind the PHB standard +1 to hit.

Dual Strike is a reversal, because WOTC finally realized that hitting one creature twice was what rangers generally did with their power, and the fighter shouldn't step on their toes. Good. Dual Strike remains one of the best at-wills a fighter gets (and is a dual mark at-will now, feels more defender-y). I don't get why the errata says "it revises the Hit line to exclude Strength modifier", because it didn't say that to begin with :)

Guileful Switch fixes an obvious oversight in the wording that (I think) few DMs allowed anyway. Note that it still allows an ally dual turns in the first round of combat, thus still making it a very good power, but no longer the best.


Now for them to actually fix Demigod and the Orb. I'll give it another six months before it's even on the table, let alone released.
The orb, yes. I'm not convinced Demigod needs fixing, because anything that only breaks at level 30 is not going to influence the game for long (and I believe that breaking things at level 30 is design intent).

[DSCrankshaw]

Now if they would only change double sword to be heavy blade only... I hate that it's a hands-down better rogue weapon than a rapier.

[Gralamin]

Guileful Switch fixes an obvious oversight in the wording that (I think) few DMs allowed anyway. Note that it still allows an ally dual turns in the first round of combat, thus still making it a very good power, but no longer the best.


Not to mention the whole "I do Action A, B, and AP to Ready an action to do C with person X attacks. I then Guileful Switch with Person X. Once he attacks my readied action goes off, and now its my turn again." Thing. I forget exactly how it worked, but it was abusing Guileful Switch and readied actions.

[Colmarr]

Righteous Rage of Tempus [Revision]
Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide, page 136
Replace the Effect line with the following:
Effect: If you hit with the next weapon attack that you make before the end of your next turn and
it isn't a critical hit, you roll the extra damage dice that you would roll if you scored a critical hit
and deal the result as extra damage. If the attack is a critical hit, its extra damage is maximized.
Explanation: This revision updates the Effect line to reflect damage expectations and baseline for
channel divinity feats. This revision limits the power of builds created to optimize critical hits.

So let me make sure I have this right.

If you hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, you get the "critical hit" bonus dice, but your standard damage isn't maximised.

If you score a critical hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, your normal damage and the "critical hit" bonus dice are maximised.

Correct?

[Gralamin]

So let me make sure I have this right.

If you hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, you get the "critical hit" bonus dice, but your standard damage isn't maximised.

If you score a critical hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, your normal damage and the "critical hit" bonus dice are maximised.

Correct?

That is indeed correct.

[Kurald Galain]

Correct?

Yes. This is to counteract the feeling that people get bummed for rolling a crit when RROT is in effect.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't like the new dual strike (two-weapon fighters always had a distinct striker-ish feel for me, so attacking one target twice fitted them more than two targets once each) - in fact, I don't know why couldn't it work the same way as ranger's twin strike. The other changes are very good.

[pasko77]

So let me make sure I have this right.

If you hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, you get the "critical hit" bonus dice, but your standard damage isn't maximised.

If you score a critical hit with your next attack before the end of your next turn, your normal damage and the "critical hit" bonus dice are maximised.

Correct?

I don't get it.
In its original text, it changes the hit in a critical. Now, if you already land a crit, it becomes maxed.
It seems stronger than before. How was it exploitable?
Thanks.

[Gralamin]

I don't get it.
In its original text, it changes the hit in a critical. Now, if you already land a crit, it becomes maxed.
It seems stronger than before. How was it exploitable?
Thanks.

Class Features, Feats, and other such abilities that only activate when you score a critical hit, no longer apply when you hit.
Edit: Also, only damage dice are rolled. So Items with +Dex*Mod damage on a crit do nothing extra.

[pasko77]

Class Features, Feats, and other such abilities that only activate when you score a critical hit, no longer apply when you hit.
Edit: Also, only damage dice are rolled. So Items with +Dex*Mod damage on a crit do nothing extra.

I see. Thank u.

I have to add, if this is the entity of erratas, it must be heaven wrt 3.5
Just a tought. Hope it doesn't become a flame :)

[NPCMook]

So BRV was reworked, so instead of stacking Temp HP with Invigorating powers I now gain double my Con mod? Or just my Con Mod regardless?

Also I no longer gain Temp HP from being hit? Just trying to make sure here.

[shadzar]

Well they finally maee things looks like the books themselves in the special format where blocks look like the blocks they replace...IE powers....

[KIDS]

I really like the idea of WotC actually going back through old material and fixing some things that turned out less than stellar. It's a welcome change.

[Hal]

This change to BRV is awful. The only change that really needed to be made was getting the temp HP everytime the fighter was hit. The cessation of stacking temp HP means that the major benefit of playing a BRV fighter is gone. Sure, you get temp HP on your attacks, but that doesn't feel like much of a benefit anymore, especially given that ANY fighter can train in Endurance and just use Invigorating powers to get the same effect. What's the point?

[NPCMook]

BRV get Con Mod regardless plus the Temp HP you would normally get from invigorating powers. So they basically get double the Temp HP when using moves like Crushing Surge

[Colmarr]

That is indeed correct.

So what exactly does "the extra damage dice that you would roll if you scored a critical hit" mean.

Do high crit weapons still trigger?

If so, isn't the RROT/Vicious Fullblade combo almost as powerful as it was before?

[Gralamin]

So what exactly does "the extra damage dice that you would roll if you scored a critical hit" mean.

Do high crit weapons still trigger?

If so, isn't the RROT/Vicious Fullblade combo almost as powerful as it was before?

It would be any Extra damage dice you would roll because of the critical hit. RROT/Vicious Fullblade still works, but it was never really the problem anyway. Its more to stop "Crit Fishing" builds that use multiple class feature bonuses on critical hits to get the result they want.

[Decoy Lockbox]

*cradles the mangled, broken body of R.O.B.* Noooooo! My boy! What have they done to my boy!?

Eh, personal feelings aside, these are all welcome changes. I'm pissed about the change in R.O.B. because I'm playing a str-based fencer paladin (read as: suboptimal build) that was using rain of blows to be at least a vaguely passable (and very stylish) party member. Seems like the damage nerf was not necessary.

[Starbuck_II]

Dual Strike remains one of the best at-wills a fighter gets (and is a dual mark at-will now, feels more defender-y). I don't get why the errata says "it revises the Hit line to exclude Strength modifier", because it didn't say that to begin with :)


Maybe they mean include str. They meant to add Str bonus. The errata needs errata?

[Gralamin]

Maybe they mean include str. They meant to add Str bonus. The errata needs errata?

I don't think so, I think its just a plain error, or meant as clarification that you do not now add strength bonus.

[Mando Knight]

Maybe they mean include str. They meant to add Str bonus. The errata needs errata?

Gods no. Add the Strength bonus to damage to a two-attack at-will? That's crazy talk.

[skywalker]

Dual Strike is a reversal, because WOTC finally realized that hitting one creature twice was what rangers generally did with their power, and the fighter shouldn't step on their toes. Good. Dual Strike remains one of the best at-wills a fighter gets (and is a dual mark at-will now, feels more defender-y). I don't get why the errata says "it revises the Hit line to exclude Strength modifier", because it didn't say that to begin with :)

+1

I hated the "two-blade fighter" + tempest technique thing. It was like the PHB said "rangers will be the best at two-weapon fighting, that's their shtick." And then MP completely destroyed that. I like this much better.

In fact, I'm only sad about RRoT and BRV. I know RRoT was silly good, but the builds for it were so niche as to be practically unplayable at low levels. If you want to play that way, fine by me (I was the same way in 3.5, if you want to play a build that sucks for 19 levels but is glorious at 20, fine). BRV does in fact seem to have been hit a bit hard by the nerf-hammer. I don't know. My only experience with a BRV fighter was a short one: I fixed his little temp-hp wagon by chucking him off a tower.

[Kurald Galain]

I know RRoT was silly good, but the builds for it were so niche as to be practically unplayable at low levels.

I'm afraid I disagree. All it takes is a high-crit high-damage die weapon, and make it vicious the first chance you get. 28 + 3d12 damage on a crit is easy, and very devastating even at low levels.