What kind of RP system to use?

[Frosty]

I may be looking to create a futuristic world with giant Mecha a la Super Robot Wars and I'm looking for a system that would fit that well. The rules would need to allow the PCs to function both in and out of their mechs/battleships/carriers. The system would also need a fairly robust system for social interactions.

It'd be a nice bonus is the system isn't extremely complex. For example Fallout's SPECIAL system rocks, but there's way too much book-keeping.

[mikeejimbo]

There is a Battletech RPG, but I know little about it. My DM converted stuff to GURPS for our giant robot RPG. It worked rather well, except for me being relatively clueless about the whole universe. I think it was some sort of crossover between two animes?

[Jayabalard]

Palladium has a couple of games with powered armor: RIFTS, and Robotech, and I vaguely remember that there's a 3rd (very militaristic, and it's referenced in the rifts conversion book). They all use fairly compatible rules. Rifts is post-apocalyptic with magic, and while it can get ridiculously unbalanced pretty quickly, it can be pretty fun.

Battletech (if you mean the FASA game) is anything but simple; I don't remember much about this system but there were drawings of the mechs with dots for armor (lots of hit locations iirc) and place to note custom weapon locations and such.

GURPS could certainly be used, but I'm not entirely sure what would be necessary to pull that off well.

There's an anime specific system that supposedly does this genre well, but I can't remember it at the moment.

[mikeejimbo]

Oh that's right, there IS a Robotech game. I'm not sure which my GM actually used for inspiration, now.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm currently a player in a Super Robot Wars game based on Mutants and Masterminds. Works very well - your mech is simply a very high-rank Device, with higher caps than your character.

[The Rose Dragon]

Actually, it's post-apocalyptic rather than merely futuristic, Exalted would work great for this. Just refluff magic as highly advanced technology and use heroic mortals as mech drivers and you'd be fine.

Barring that, I second the suggestion for M&M.

[Frosty]

I'm actuallythinking of swiping the L5R roll and keep mechanics. It already has the non-piloting mechanics set (I'd just need to draw up a skill lit to match the universe) and I'll come up with something for mech piloting.

For example, for calculations on mech combat, each attack roll is actually an opposed roll instead of a roll vs a set AC. The attacking pilot might make a [Agility_trait+Mech_Accuracy_skill/Keep Agility_trait] roll vs the defending pilot's [Reflexes_trait+Mech_Piloting_skill/Keep Reflexes_trait] roll with the defense roll capped by a mech's mobility (so if Ace Hotshot is piloting a Battleship, his ship can still only dodge so well). The attack roll may also have a flat modifier based on the accuracy of a weapon. Like, 75mm automatic multi-barrel CIWS or Head-mounted short-range Vulcans will have massive accuracy bonuses while a non-guided missile weapon may have penalties to the final attack roll.

[Knaight]

Mecha Aces (http://www.seraphimguard.com/seraphim-guard-mecha.php), by Seraphim Guard. Its a very lightweight system, based off of Fudge, which works with giant mechs, pilots, etc. And everything Seraphim Guard makes is highly focused on social interactions, these are the same people who made Heart Quest, which is basically intended as a role playing game for people interested in Shojo anime. The description doesn't live up to the game.

[Garian]

Serenity RPG, for sure. Great social interactions, builds for armed space ships (could easly be converted into mechas) and they can move in and out of their mechas. The only problem is I have something against their method making skill checks/attacks. It is slightly broken in that way.

D20 Modern should be considered. Its nothing special but it gets the job done.

[Ninetail]

I may be looking to create a futuristic world with giant Mecha a la Super Robot Wars and I'm looking for a system that would fit that well. The rules would need to allow the PCs to function both in and out of their mechs/battleships/carriers. The system would also need a fairly robust system for social interactions.

It'd be a nice bonus is the system isn't extremely complex. For example Fallout's SPECIAL system rocks, but there's way too much book-keeping.

The easy answer is HERO system. It can do all the things you want it to do, and it tilts toward the cinematic by default (although it can definitely be used for grittier and more realistic games, too, by employing some of the optional rules). However, it is not "light." Use HERO if you're willing to accept complexity as the payoff for flexibility and power. HERO can do anything, but there's a price for that.

If minimizing bookkeeping is important to you, then you have a couple of options:

Big Eyes Small Mouth. Pros: Designed for anime games, has rules specifically for mecha. Fairly flexible while remaining fairly system-light. Can do quite a lot, with a bit of kludging. Cons: Characters can very easily become overpowered with a little experience, combats can take forever because the degree of success of an attack roll does not in any way affect the difficulty of making the defense roll.

Risus. Pros: Very system-light. Free. Probably different than anything you've played before. Cons: Very system-light. There's not a lot of bookkeeping, but there aren't a lot of defined rules, either; your GM'll need to improvise well. The system is designed with an eye toward comedy games, although it can be used for serious games.

Savage Worlds. Pros: A quick, clean system oriented toward pulp-style games (and many giant-robot anime are pulp). Not as flexible, and therefore not as potentially mind-blowing, as the previous options. You'll be on solid ground even though the rules are light. Cons: No giant-robot-oriented settings as far as I know -- so you'll need to make stuff up, again. It's possible for an unlucky hero to die to a single hit in combat, and in general combat is something to be avoided -- perhaps not the best system if you're envisioning strings of giant robot battles all over the place. Not as flexible, and therefore not as potentially mind-blowing, as the previous options.

Most superhero systems can probably be used. I'd avoid GURPS, though -- I find it very fiddly for mecha.

[Panda-s1]

There's a game made by 4chan (oh noes!) called Trigger Discipline (http://docs.google.com/View?docid=ddtpw56g_98ftqhjgf) that may or may not have gotten out of playtesting. But it certainly is interesting, and was made for over the top anime-style action roleplaying. It's also quite metafictional in that you're playing fictional characters in-game, and the GM is the director. It's also set up to be episodic. No seriously, the story is divided into episodes (which may or may not represent a single session) and a campaign is called a season, made up of 13-52 episodes.

Metafiction aside, the game is based around having an archetype and role in the group, and you're rewarded every time you play off either, and it's more based around challenges than an actual combat system. Is it silly? Yeah, but if you're willing to overlook that this might be a system to take a look at.

[Swordguy]

I may be looking to create a futuristic world with giant Mecha a la Super Robot Wars and I'm looking for a system that would fit that well. The rules would need to allow the PCs to function both in and out of their mechs/battleships/carriers. The system would also need a fairly robust system for social interactions.

It'd be a nice bonus is the system isn't extremely complex. For example Fallout's SPECIAL system rocks, but there's way too much book-keeping.

CthulhuTech (Wiki Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CthulhuTech)), and just don't use the rules for magic or elder horrors. It's that simple.

It's explicitly built for exactly what you're describing (with the addition of the aforementioned horrors), and I always recommend a purpose-built system over a generic (like GURPS) or a weird refluff that try and make the rules do what they aren't designed for (Exalted? Really?).

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to recommend the BattleTech RPG - Catalyst is coming out with the new edition, "A Time of War" at GenCon with the primary goal of making an RPG with robust out-of-Mech mechanics that blends seamlessly as possible with the BattleTech board game (which is actually QUITE simple and free to pick up with the downloadable Quick-start rules located Here (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=165)). But I can't do so with the currently-existing and overly-complicated MechWarrior 3rd Edition RPG that's currently available. "A Time of War" is specifically being designed to make things simpler, and BattleTech is THE go-to Mech game in the industry, so if you can wait till post-GenCon it may be worth looking at.

But right now, I have to recommend CthulhuTech uber alles.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Bliss Stage. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlissStage)

It has two mechanics - one is a simple way of resolving challenges while piloting. The other is pure relationship; since your mecha are powered by PASSION (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded) the outcome of your social scenes affects the strength of your mecha.

It uses d3's or Fudge Dice and costs $13 (http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/search.php?mode=search&page=1). What more can you ask for? :smallcool:

EDIT:
If you need more Zeerust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zeerust) just advance the timeline into whatever setting you prefer; I'm currently running a Medieval Fantasy version :smalltongue:

[Tengu_temp]

Big Eyes Small Mouth. Pros: Designed for anime games, has rules specifically for mecha. Fairly flexible while remaining fairly system-light. Can do quite a lot, with a bit of kludging. Cons: Characters can very easily become overpowered with a little experience, combats can take forever because the degree of success of an attack roll does not in any way affect the difficulty of making the defense roll.


Truth to be told, I played both BESM and M&M, and there's nothing the former can do the latter is not better at - BESM requires much more DM supervision during character creation to avoid power discrepancy among players and has much duller combat. The only thing that's better about BESM is that you can buy very anime-specific advantages and disadvantages, but I bet this will become available in M&M as well once the anime splatbook comes out.

[Frosty]

Bliss Stage won't work for my setting, unfortunately. I mean, it sounds more Soap-Opera-ish than some of the Gundam Series. And like, there's only one adult in the world but everything is powered by sex? :smalleek:

[ColdSepp]

d20 modern, the future supplement, has rules for mecha.

[mikeejimbo]

Bliss Stage won't work for my setting, unfortunately. I mean, it sounds more Soap-Opera-ish than some of the Gundam Series. And like, there's only one adult in the world but everything is powered by sex? :smalleek:

That sounds exactly like any giant robot anime to me, though.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Bliss Stage won't work for my setting, unfortunately. I mean, it sounds more Soap-Opera-ish than some of the Gundam Series. And like, there's only one adult in the world but everything is powered by sex? :smalleek:
Its nickname is Neon Genesis Evangelion: The Roleplaying Game (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeonGenesisEvangelion) :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, what about it doesn't work? Also, you may want to explain what "social mechanics" you're looking for.

[Frosty]

Well specifically, I don't want my robots to be fueled by emotion. I don't want the effective of the mechs to be tied to any emotion or relationship table. So unless that's an optional mechanic then I don't see how it'd work.

When I mean social mechanics I mean the rules must be able to handle social situations better than the way DnD does. I want social interaction to be an important part of the game without it actually affecting mech-piloting.

[Hawriel]

Palladium has a couple of games with powered armor: RIFTS, and Robotech, and I vaguely remember that there's a 3rd (very militaristic, and it's referenced in the rifts conversion book). They all use fairly compatible rules. Rifts is post-apocalyptic with magic, and while it can get ridiculously unbalanced pretty quickly, it can be pretty fun.

Battletech (if you mean the FASA game) is anything but simple; I don't remember much about this system but there were drawings of the mechs with dots for armor (lots of hit locations iirc) and place to note custom weapon locations and such.


Eather of these two are good for what you want. Ive played Battletech alot as a kid. A little bit of rifts. However Battletech isnt as complicated as Jayabalard suggests. If you want to try it look for Classic Battletech for the wargame. Mechwarrior is the RPG for battletech.

[Oracle_Hunter]

When I mean social mechanics I mean the rules must be able to handle social situations better than the way DnD does. I want social interaction to be an important part of the game without it actually affecting mech-piloting.
What do you mean by "better?" And how do you make them important if they don't affect the other part of the game - piloting mecha?

I'm honestly at a loss for what you're looking for here. Do you have any examples?

EDIT:
Expansion on Bliss Stage - How Relationships Work
You call upon Relationships to provide extra dice for attempting Challenges. All Relationships have an Intimacy and a Trust value - Intimacy is the "closeness" of the Relationship while Trust is exactly what it sounds like. Through using Relationships in Challenges you erode the Trust value of that Relationship; when Trust equals 0 the Relationship is broken, leaving the two parties estranged.

In order to "level" your Relationships (and to repair damage) you have to enact freeform RP scenes with the other players (each player "owns" multiple NPCs for these sessions). A third party then judges the scene based off of a chart; this judgment has a mechanical effect on the I/T score of that Relationship. The DM largely is there to keep everyone honest.
That, for me, is an example (perhaps the example) of a Social System that has real impact on the game.

If you want, you can have the mecha act as normal, but the effectiveness of a given Pilot in using that mecha depends on the mental support (and hot-bloodedness) that he derives from his various Relationships. To be honest, that's what you see in a Gundam - think about how Amaro and Char fight in Gundam 0079 or Char's Counterattack for example.

[Lamech]

What do you mean by "better?" And how do you make them important if they don't affect the other part of the game - piloting mecha?

I'm honestly at a loss for what you're looking for here. Do you have any examples?
I'm guessing better than... "Okay I make a rushed diplomacy check, he's hostile you say. I rolled a negative two, so... hey he's helpful. Damnit! One short of fantic. Well, the BBEG wants to help us."

[Tengu_temp]

Exalted has rules for social combat... but seriously, I think the importance of social interactions in a game depends mostly on the plot, players and the DM, not the mechanics.



If you want, you can have the mecha act as normal, but the effectiveness of a given Pilot in using that mecha depends on the mental support (and hot-bloodedness) that he derives from his various Relationships. To be honest, that's what you see in a Gundam - think about how Amaro and Char fight in Gundam 0079 or Char's Counterattack for example.

I think Bliss Stage will simply not work here - Frosty seems to want a system that represents Real Robots here, while Bliss Stage sits firmly in the Super Robot category - or, to be more precise, Angsty Super Robot Deconstruction.

[Frosty]

I want a gundam-esque feel without Newtypes, Coordinators, SEED mode, etcx. Definitely a Real-robot feel. On rare occasions emotions may factor in, but it would be a story event.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I think Bliss Stage will simply not work here - Frosty seems to want a system that represents Real Robots here, while Bliss Stage sits firmly in the Super Robot category - or, to be more precise, Angsty Super Robot Deconstruction.
Certainly seems so. Still, I was curious to hear more of the Social System rules requirements; personally, I've never found a system which was both good and made social situations mechanically important.

4E, for example, has provided a nice way to implement social skills (Diplomacy, etc.) via the Skill Challenge and DMG 42 dynamic DCs; but, as a system, it is as sparsely detailed as the rest of the Skill System - it is not central to the gameplay.

Bliss Stage is the only game I've played where Social Skills Mechanics are central to gameplay (and work well). Unfortunately, I can't easily think of a way to graft it onto any other system, without running two systems at once.

That said - Heavy Gear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Gear) has the best "simple" mecha combat (Real Robot) that I've seem. There are rules for customizing and making your own mecha designs (complicated) but the central rules capture the sort of gritty stuff you seem to be looking for. Also, the mecha are more man-sized, allowing for more "realistic" play.

However, I cannot advocate the "social rules" (such as they are); still, I think this "social rules" requirement can probably be dispensed with by using the same fixes you made for 3E.

[Ninetail]

Truth to be told, I played both BESM and M&M, and there's nothing the former can do the latter is not better at - BESM requires much more DM supervision during character creation to avoid power discrepancy among players and has much duller combat. The only thing that's better about BESM is that you can buy very anime-specific advantages and disadvantages, but I bet this will become available in M&M as well once the anime splatbook comes out.

I'd believe that. I hear very good things about M&M, but I haven't played it myself. I'm not really a fan of BESM, but it does have mechanics built with mecha in mind, so it's pretty plug-and-play in that regard. (Personally, I'd just as soon use HERO.)

[Oslecamo]

Pick your favorite RPG system for nonmech stuff, and then just plug in the SRW game rules for mech combat. The computer game is simple enough to worck by hand, and you probably already know most of the rules for it anyway.

This is, I've seen a bunch of people who started playing Fire Emblem here in the forums by hand, and they seem to be faring quite well.

[Artanis]

I want a gundam-esque feel without Newtypes, Coordinators, SEED mode, etcx. Definitely a Real-robot feel. On rare occasions emotions may factor in, but it would be a story event.

Jovian Chronicles (http://www.dp9.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=58) by Dreampod 9 (http://www.dp9.com/) is exactly what you're looking for. The setting itself provides plenty of mecha action, combat, intrigue, etc., AND a potential MacGuffin that can give you exactly the emotion stuff you want. It uses the same dice system as Heavy Gear and, like d20, is applied to everything you'll need dice for: plug your mech-piloting stats into the formula when doing mecha combat, plug your social stats into the formula for doing social stuff, and so forth. Unlike d20, however, the base system includes a system for building your own vehicles - and doing a pretty good job of balancing them as an inherent part of the process - for pretty much any vehicle you can think of

The main downside to its dice system (called Silhouette) is that it can sometimes be a ***** to work with. The basic process is easy to grasp, it's using it that can get troublesome at times because absolutely nothing in the entire system is linear.


Edit: aaaaaand I only now notice that OH beat me to Silhouette. I still think my post is worthwhile for mentioning Jovian Chronicles though :smallredface:

[Frosty]

Pick your favorite RPG system for nonmech stuff, and then just plug in the SRW game rules for mech combat. The computer game is simple enough to worck by hand, and you probably already know most of the rules for it anyway.

This is, I've seen a bunch of people who started playing Fire Emblem here in the forums by hand, and they seem to be faring quite well.

I know the basic stats for SRW games, but I don't know how the formulas and equations are done.

[Oslecamo]

I know the basic stats for SRW games, but I don't know how the formulas and equations are done.

Google finds it all.
http://wiki.livedoor.jp/srw_ap/d/%b3%c6%bc%ef%b7%d7%bb%bb%bc%b0

It seems to be a basic percentile system. A quick rough translation:

Hit bonus: (acuraccy/2+140)*terrain affinity*weapon hit rate+special ability

Dodge bonus = (pilot dodge/2 + robot dodge)*terrain affinity+special ability

Hit= (hit bonus - dodge bonus)×defending robot size + range penalty-terrain defensive bonus+special relevant ability.

Each square of distance imposes a -3% penalty to hit.

Roll a 1d100 and if it's under the hit or miss chance, then you hited.

Base damage = gunfight or infight/200* weapon attack bonus*weapon terrain afinity

Base defense = defense / 200 *robot defense bonus*robot terrain bonus


Damage=(base damage - Base defense)*special effect.

If it's a crit then 1.25 damage. Minimum 10 damage.

Crit chance =Attacker skill+weapon crit - Defender skill+ special ability.

To calculate terrain affinity of a robot use the following table:
(table got it's stuff doubled, too lazy to clean it up, just ignore the second rows)
Pilot Robot Final Modifier
S(4) S (4) + + S(4) S (4) = = S(8) S (8) 1.1 1,1
S(4) S (4) + + A(3) A (3) = = S(7) S (7) 1.1 1,1
A(3) A (3) + + S(4) S (4) = = S(7) S (7) 1.1 1,1
A(3) A (3) + + A(3) A (3) = = A(6) A (6) 1.0 1,0
S(4) S (4) + + B(2) B (2) = = A(6) A (6) 1.0 1,0
B(2) B (2) + + S(4) S (4) = = A(6) A (6) 1.0 1,0
S(4) S (4) + + C(1) C (1) = = B(5) B (5) 0.9 0,9
C(1) C (1) + + S(4) S (4) = = B(5) B (5) 0.9 0,9
B(2) B (2) + + A(3) A (3) = = B(5) B (5) 0.9 0,9
A(3) A (3) + + B(2) B (2) = = B(5) B (5) 0.9 0,9
D(0) D (0) + + S(4) S (4) = = B(4) B (4) 0.9 0,9
S(4) S (4) + + D(0) D (0) = = B(4) B (4) 0.9 0,9
C(1) C (1) + + A(3) A (3) = = B(4) B (4) 0.9 0,9
A(3) A (3) + + C(1) C (1) = = B(4) B (4) 0.9 0,9
B(2) B (2) + + B(2) B (2) = = B(4) B (4) 0.9 0,9
A(3) A (3) + + D(0) D (0) = = C(3) C (3) 0.8 0,8
D(0) D (0) + + A(3) A (3) = = C(3) C (3) 0.8 0,8
B(2) B (2) + + C(1) C (1) = = C(3) C (3) 0.8 0,8
C(1) C (1) + + B(2) B (2) = = C(3) C (3) 0.8 0,8
B(2) B (2) + + D(0) D (0) = = C(2) C (2) 0.8 0,8
D(0) D (0) + + B(2) B (2) = = C(2) C (2) 0.8 0,8
C(1) C (1) + + C(1) C (1) = = C(2) C (2) 0.8 0,8
C(1) C (1) + + D(0) D (0) = = D(1) D (1) 0.4 0,4
D(0) D (0) + + C(1) C (1) = = D(1) D (1) 0.4 0,4
D(0) D (0) + + D(0) D (0) = = D(0) D (0) 0.4 0,4


Size modifier in evasion:
LL 1.4
L 1.2
M 1.0
S 0.8
SS 0.1

Weapon terrain affinity, counts only the terrain of the target:
S 1.1
A 1.0
B 0.9
C 0.8
D 0.4

Here. Now just need to create a system of character creation. Point buy should worck smoothly, using the units and weapons prices of the game as a guideline.

[Cainen]

Truth to be told, I played both BESM and M&M, and there's nothing the former can do the latter is not better at

M&M is a far heavier game - as a result, character creation is usually much slower. Whether it's more detailed or not is irrelevant in terms of being better or not - it's something M&M won't cover without tweaking, and character creation between the two is a far different affair.

I'm not disagreeing with the intent, just the point.

[Frosty]

Google finds it all.
http://wiki.livedoor.jp/srw_ap/d/%b3%c6%bc%ef%b7%d7%bb%bb%bc%b0

Here. Now just need to create a system of character creation. Point buy should worck smoothly, using the units and weapons prices of the game as a guideline.

Yeah. combat will probably slow to a CRAWL. I can't do all these calculations for eveyr single shot. This will NOT be for a forum game. We gotta be able to do this on the fly.

[Artanis]

Attacking in Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear:

1) Opposed roll between attacker and defender
2a) If defender wins or it's a tie, the attack misses and nothing happens
2b) If attacker wins, multiply the margin of success by the weapon's power
3) Compare the result to the target's armor. If it's bigger, apply damage appropriately.
4) Next person's turn!

Really, the slowest part of the system is keeping track of modifiers to your roll. Keeping track of those modifiers, in fact, also takes care of "health": there's no HP, instead when you take a hit your armor degrades and you lose effectiveness (often in the form of a penalty to rolls). So if you can keep track of that, then you're golden.

[9mm]

I'd second the motion to wait past gen-con for Cytalist to put out the new Battletech RPG, as the currant one, while feasible, has some quirks that can drive you nuts during character creation; though the upside is there is no need for alot of back story. Plus Battletech is the best system for mech on mech combat, espestially if you decide to go more detailed then just mechs.

[Frosty]

No, I definitely want there to be lots of backstory to encourage RP. So newer battletech system will be simpler you think?

[Tengu_temp]

M&M is a far heavier game - as a result, character creation is usually much slower.

I agree that character creation is slower in M&M - the actual gameplay, however, is much faster, mostly because there's less counting.

[9mm]

No, I definitely want there to be lots of backstory to encourage RP. So newer battletech system will be simpler you think?

from everything i've seen they've pulled back when you start character building from your characters birth to far more broad strokes. instead of the old system that involves: "where were you born?" -> "who were your parents?" -> "where did you go to school?" -> "What did you study?" -> "what was your first job?" -> "roll to see what happened at that job" -> ect, and can leave your character with, say, two serious war wounds, to the biggest, baddest mech ever manufactured, or both.

[The Rose Dragon]

I agree that character creation is slower in M&M - the actual gameplay, however, is much faster, mostly because there's less counting.

It's really not that slower once you start creating characters frequently - at my zenith, I could create about five characters an hour, before I got drawn away by AFMBE and Exalted.

I'm still waiting for Mecha & Manga to come out and bring me back into the fold.