"I left home to defeat a lich..." - OtOotPCs spoilers within

[The_Void]

I haven't read OtOotPCs, but from what I've gathered, Roy recruited Durkon to fight Xykon, and that was the first Durkon knew of him, but in the last strip Durkon says that he left home to fight Xykon. Could someone fill me in on what exactly happened?

[Xiander]

No.... Durkon says he did not leave his home for that reason. Read it again.

[Aris Katsaris]

I haven't read OtOotPCs, but from what I've gathered, Roy recruited Durkon to fight Xykon, and that was the first Durkon knew of him, but in the last strip Durkon says that he left home to fight Xykon. Could someone fill me in on what exactly happened?

You're misreading the comic. Durkon says that he did NOT leave home having as a goal to be fighting a lich.

[Järnblomma]

You've read wrong. He says he DIDN'T leave home to save the world.

Edit: Ninjaaaaad...

[jamroar]

I haven't read OtOotPCs, but from what I've gathered, Roy recruited Durkon to fight Xykon, and that was the first Durkon knew of him, but in the last strip Durkon says that he left home to fight Xykon. Could someone fill me in on what exactly happened?

He said he didn't leave home to fight Xykon, but ended up doing so anyway, which is what counts, as an analogue to V. accidentally saving O-Chul.

[Teddy]

You want the details? Most of it can be found scatterd across the comic (mostly concentrated to Durkon's letter to the high priest of Thor), but:

Durkon was kicked out from his dwarven homeland on a mission to liason with the humans and lear about their culture. The real reason of him getting kicked out was because a propesy from the high priest of Odin saying that the next time Durkon returnes home, death and destruction will be brought upon the dwarven people in the north.

Roy then joined an Adventurer team where Durkon was a (quite disliked) member. They then broke up and started the Order of the Stick to fight Xykon.

[Corwin Weber]

You want the details? Most of it can be found scatterd across the comic (mostly concentrated to Durkon's letter to the high priest of Thor), but:

Durkon was kicked out from his dwarven homeland on a mission to liason with the humans and lear about their culture. The real reason of him getting kicked out was because a propesy from the high priest of Odin saying that the next time Durkon returnes home, death and destruction will be brought upon the dwarven people in the north.

Roy then joined an Adventurer team where Durkon was a (quite disliked) member. They then broke up and started the Order of the Stick to fight Xykon.

Ok, I haven't read it either... (none of the game stores around here have any of the OOTS books) but....



If that was the prophecy, then weren't the dwarves kinda stupid? They ensured it would happen by throwing him out. The way to prevent it would have been to keep him home.

If he never leaves, he can never return. Hence, the prophecy doesn't work.

[Cracklord]

Ok, I haven't read it either... (none of the game stores around here have any of the OOTS books) but....



If that was the prophecy, then weren't the dwarves kinda stupid? They ensured it would happen by throwing him out. The way to prevent it would have been to keep him home.

If he never leaves, he can never return. Hence, the prophecy doesn't work.



Besides, Durkon's so honorable that if they told him why he had to leave he'd make sure never to come back to stop it from ever happening.

[Cryssandra]

Besides, Durkon's so honorable that if they told him why he had to leave he'd make sure never to come back to stop it from ever happening.

Yes, but Corwin does have a point....

[Forbiddenwar]

Ok, I haven't read it either... (none of the game stores around here have any of the OOTS books) but....



If that was the prophecy, then weren't the dwarves kinda stupid? They ensured it would happen by throwing him out. The way to prevent it would have been to keep him home.

If he never leaves, he can never return. Hence, the prophecy doesn't work.



That too is discussed in OotPc book.

One of the dwarves points this out, but the head states that someday Durkon would have left anyway, to visit family or friends, and would have then returned, bringing doom. They are a generally lawful people, life imprisonment of Durkon (never letting him leave) or execution probably wouldn't be allowed by the rest of the dwarves to avoid the prophecy. But because of D's Lawful nature, ordering him to leave and never come back until called for (in other words, never come back) then D would leave and never come back.
Now we know he will return to his lands, dead. And wackiness will ensue.

[Salty]

If that was the prophecy, then weren't the dwarves kinda stupid? They ensured it would happen by throwing him out. The way to prevent it would have been to keep him home.

If he never leaves, he can never return. Hence, the prophecy doesn't work.



Actually, this was addressed in the book. Their logic was that he would eventually leave home to buy bread or visit his grandfather or whatever. Minion has a point, though.

EDIT: Ninja'd!!!

[Forbiddenwar]

Minion has a point, though. [/spoiler]


Minion's idea, though, wouldn't prevent Durkon being returned posthumously. Few things would.

[Porthos]

Ok, I haven't read it either... (none of the game stores around here have any of the OOTS books) but....



If that was the prophecy, then weren't the dwarves kinda stupid? They ensured it would happen by throwing him out. The way to prevent it would have been to keep him home.

If he never leaves, he can never return. Hence, the prophecy doesn't work.


And that, my friends, is why it is referred to as a Self Fulfilling Prophecy. :smallsmile:

If Durkon hadn't been banished, then none of the events that would lead to the Death and Destruction would have happened.

Tis risky business indeed to screw with prophecy. :smallwink:

[factotum]

I think the reasoning behind the banishment was a little off:


The High Priest clearly interpreted the prophecy to mean Durkon's own home--e.g. whatever cave he lived in within the dwarven city. Therefore it's a guarantee he would leave and come back at some point, in fact, probably several times a day. The interpretation of "home" as "the entire dwarven nation" obviously never occurred to him.

[Trizap]

I think the reasoning behind the banishment was a little off:


The High Priest clearly interpreted the prophecy to mean Durkon's own home--e.g. whatever cave he lived in within the dwarven city. Therefore it's a guarantee he would leave and come back at some point, in fact, probably several times a day. The interpretation of "home" as "the entire dwarven nation" obviously never occurred to him.


well who knows? dwarves are so literal minded and the OOTS world is so comically weird, they might have found any number of strange interpretations that would have made sense to dwarven thinking but not probably not to ours.

[Boaromir]

And that, my friends, is why it is referred to as a Self Fulfilling Prophecy. :smallsmile:

If Durkon hadn't been banished, then none of the events that would lead to the Death and Destruction would have happened.

Tis risky business indeed to screw with prophecy. :smallwink:



Well... yes and no. If Durkon never left his house, then this prophecy wouldn't have occurred. However, there's still no guarantee that the alternative would be any better. Perhaps without Durkon, the OotS wouldn't have stopped Xykon at the Dungeon of Dorukan or the Battle at Azure City. Then again, maybe not. The prophecy doesn't state that if Durkon never returned home, something bad wouldn't happen. In the end, all Hurak really did was make sure that during his own life time, death and destruction wasn't visited upon the dwarves. And, for him and everyone that died before Durkon makes it back, isn't too bad.

[Starscream]

I just assumed the High Priest was trying to be as kind as possible given the circumstances.

True, Durkon would probably have agreed to stay in his house for the rest of his life it it meant protecting the dwarves, but that would have effectively been life imprisonment for something he had no control over.

Likewise the Priest could have just told Durkon about the prophesy and he would have agreed to leave, but then he would live out the rest of his life knowing he would die away from his family, and not even be buried in their tomb. Considering how important this is to him, it would have been even worse than imprisonment.

By lying to him, Durkon can live the rest of his life in the hope that he will be called back at any moment and welcomed back home with open arms. He thinks he's the Chosen One of Thor, sent on an important mission. It gives his life meaning, while being a mere exile would leave him miserable.

[Ancalagon]

He thinks he's the Chosen One of Thor, sent on an important mission. It gives his life meaning, while being a mere exile would leave him miserable.

No, he does not think that. He hates humans and the human world. Also, he is neither very successful in his "godly task" nor does he really try to be better... the only humans he makes contact with are Roy, Elan, and Haley.
Durkon does not see his task as "being a Chosen One"... he sees it as burden and hates it.

Btw, about being a chosen one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R0pQM83v5U

[The_JJ]

I think the reasoning behind the banishment was a little off:


The High Priest clearly interpreted the prophecy to mean Durkon's own home--e.g. whatever cave he lived in within the dwarven city. Therefore it's a guarantee he would leave and come back at some point, in fact, probably several times a day. The interpretation of "home" as "the entire dwarven nation" obviously never occurred to him.


Oh, I think they figured that possiblity too, and were well aware of all the possible outcomes. But so long as Durkon remains exiled he can return to neither his bedroom and kitchen home nor his passport and taxes home. They were playing it 'safe.'

[Haven]

It's very weird. For some reason the high priest says he considered imprisoning him but rejected on the grounds that "he'd eventually escape", which, the only way I can even fanwank that into making sense is if they already knew he was a PC. Which doesn't make much sense, but whatever.

[Teln]

Or, he'd one day get a raging case of cabin fever and have to either break out or start making Will saves against insanity.

BTW, this is a spoiler thread. No need to spoiler link everything dealing with OotPCs.

[FoE]

The smart thing to do would have been to kill Durkon on the spot. But that wouldn't have been Good or Lawful.

[LuisDantas]

Killing Durkon is no safeguard against the prophecy. For one thing, his mortal remains could eventually leave and return. For another, he can be ressurrected.

Durkon does not seem to hate humans, or anyway he leaves precious little evidence pointing so. Nor are the Order the only humans he interacts with; in fact, he was probably among Miko's best friends, and is also under at the very least decent speaking terms with the Katos, Hinjo, O-Chul and Lien.

[Haven]

He originally wasn't too fond of em, but knowing Roy turned him around.

[Kish]

Nor are the Order the only humans he interacts with; in fact, he was probably among Miko's best friends, and is also under at the very least decent speaking terms with the Katos, Hinjo, O-Chul and Lien.
Somewhat amusingly, all those people seem to be very dwarven humans in some ways--specifically, the "do your duty especially if it makes you miserable" ways.

[Forbiddenwar]

Killing Durkon is no safeguard against the prophecy. For one thing, his mortal remains could eventually leave and return. For another, he can be ressurrected.


And true resurection can occur away from his remains and home, leading him to return.

This is classic prophecy storytelling. By attempting to avoid the prophecied fate, person or people take actions than ensure it occurs. Just like Oedipus Rex. The idea in ancient greece is that the future is immutable and one's fate, either known or not known, cannot be avoided. Only the Gods have free will. To think you have contol of your own fate is Hubris at its worst.

[NerfTW]

It's very weird. For some reason the high priest says he considered imprisoning him but rejected on the grounds that "he'd eventually escape", which, the only way I can even fanwank that into making sense is if they already knew he was a PC. Which doesn't make much sense, but whatever.

How so? We've already seen other adventurer PCs, like the group he hooked up with. We know he must have already had cleric class levels, and we've seen non PC clerics around. And we know that being falsely imprisoned would give him a damn good reason to try to escape.

They wanted to give him a reason for not being able to return home. Simply imprisoning him would have resulted in him trying to escape and possibly succeed. Gving him a quest from Thor means he wouldn't disobey the orders.

[badam104172]

does anyone find it strange that three people responded to this thread with almost exactly the same response, at exactly the same time? AT 4:32 AM???

[Porthos]

does anyone find it strange that three people responded to this thread with almost exactly the same response, at exactly the same time? AT 4:32 AM???

Considering they were all correcting a fairly huge piece of misunderstanding by the OP.....

No, I don't find it strange at all. If I had been online at the time, it would have been four identical messages. :smallwink:

Also, as for time, it would have been 7:30 on the East coast and 12:30pm in the UK (never mind anywhere else in continental Europe/Asia/Australia/South-North America/etc). Lots of people from all sorts of different timezones read this comic, ya know. :smalltongue:

[Draz74]

The smart thing to do would have been to kill Durkon on the spot. But that wouldn't have been Good or Lawful.

Murder isn't "smart" just because it's pragmatic.

In classic prophecy-storytelling terms, the "smart" thing to do in a situation like this is to completely ignore the prophecy (thank you Dumbledore).

Or a really "smart," clever, creative thing to do would have been to set up a situation where a harmless "disaster" would be obviously caused by Durkon coming home, and get it over with as quickly as possible. ("Oh no! The local grocery store is out of beer! What a disaster!")

[NerfTW]

That, and killing him wouldn't have worked.

People tend to have trouble with pre-destination when dealing with prophecies. The prophecy assumes that all the actions you take are taken. If you try to circumvent the prophecy or prove it wrong, it's ALREADY taken that into account. What happens always happens and always did happen.

So a prophecy about Durkon bringing destruction the next time he returns home can't be averted by killing him, because you simply won't succeed. You'll fail, someone will help him out, he'll just happen to pick that moment to go for a stroll outside, etc.

Not to mention they'd much rather allow Durkon to live out his life in exile than to cruelly murder him and risk him escaping and returning later.