Crimson Mantle

[Platinius]

What does :redcloak:'s Crimson Mantle actually do/ what powers does it give him?

[Gamerlord]

Your entire question is explained in SoD.

[Platinius]

which I don't own :smallsigh:

By reading many many posts, I learned that it confers disease immunity and the knowledge how to manipulate the riftgates. (not necessarily the power, but knowings half the battle, right? :smallwink:) What else can it do?

[Moriarty]

we don't know exactly, it COULD grant the ability to smite once a day, because RC used it to one shot a paladin as a lv 1 cleric

[Kid Dynamo]

I believe it also makes RC immune to the effects of aging (immortal?).

[SoC175]

Immunity to aging and disease
Use of each domain power of the Dark One's domains (assumed, only the use of the destructions domain's power is confirmed)
Information about the true plan of the Dark One

[the_tick_rules]

Like the others said. Immunity or at least heavy resistance to aging, disease immunity (apparently it's more than normal disease immunity as it shielded him against a spell that normal disease curing spells couldn't hack). Some as of yet uncodified clerical buffing, and the knowledge of the goblin god. Maybe some other stuff we don't yet know.

[Nerdanel]

We know something of the powers of the Crimson Mantle but not their full extent.

Slow aging and immunity to disease are from SoD, as well as knowledge of the Plan. I think it also gives Destruction as a spell-like ability.

SoD spoilers:
When Redcloak poofs the paladins horse he is far too low-level to have done it on his own. I think he probably had gained his first class level some tens of minutes earlier and had not had the time to prepare any spells yet, but even if you think he was higher than that powerful spells Destruction and Disintegrate would definitely have been out of his grasp at the time.


Smite 1/day comes from Redcloak's Destruction domain and therefore the Crimson Mantle does not need to be involved.

I've read speculation that the Crimson Mantle could allow its wielder to automatically pass all saving throws, explaining why Redcloak gambled in such a way as to have a spell duel with the High Priest of the Twelve Gods. After all, normally there is a 5% chance of rolling a natural one, but Redcloak didn't seem to care about that. He didn't even have to ask questions like if 21 saved.

[Draz74]

I think the main effect, though it wasn't explicitly spelled out, was basically just giving him several free Cleric levels, without having to earn XP at the normal rate. IMHO, he already had the Destruction domain and thus the ability to Smite 1/day as a Level 1 Cleric; the Mantle just made his Smite much more effective by making him higher-level.

It's also not clear if he's immune to all diseases, or just that particular virus.

Incidentally, the title of this thread should probably get a [SoD spoilers] tag added.

[David Argall]

What does :redcloak:'s Crimson Mantle actually do/ what powers does it give him?

It gives him whatever powers are plot convenient. That is not ever going to be enough to dominate the situation, but it is enough to make him a factor.

[alegollama]

I don't have SoD, but does is it passed down by the High priest of the dark one to their successors? It seems like everyone who sees him automatically knows he's extremely powerful and evil...

[Morquard]

I don't have SoD, but does is it passed down by the High priest of the dark one to their successors? It seems like everyone who sees him automatically knows he's extremely powerful and evil...
Yes. The Dark One created the Mantle when he learned about the gates. Its been passed on from High priest to high priest ever since. They usually had a very short life expectancy due to the Azurites hunting them.
Redcloak got it about 30 years ago.

[Zevox]

Use of each domain power of the Dark One's domains (assumed, only the use of the destructions domain's power is confirmed)
Er, no. He'd gain that simply from having the domains to begin with, not from the Mantle. (Incidentally, his other domain is Law - he cast Hold Monster in SoD, which he could only do with that domain. Which only gives +1 CL to law spells. So we'll never see that effect explicitly.)

As others have said, the only confirmed effects are immunity to diseases and resistance to aging (or an increased lifespan, if you prefer). Plus instant knowledge of the creation of the world, the Snarl, and The Plan when it is first put on. Anything else is complete speculation and/or BS.

Zevox

[fwiffo]

It gives him whatever powers are plot convenient. That is not ever going to be enough to dominate the situation, but it is enough to make him a factor.

Absolutably. It gives our favorite goblin a 1d4+5 plot armor bonus.

[derfenrirwolv]

Known:

immunity to aging

Immunity to diseases (including magical ones)

Knowledge of the dark ones plan for the gates and how to do it.




In SoD redcloak was shown to have slowly gained his cleric levels over time, so it probably doesn't grant automatic levels, or if it does its not an automatic 18 of them.

[Draz74]

In SoD redcloak was shown to have slowly gained his cleric levels over time, so it probably doesn't grant automatic levels, or if it does its not an automatic 18 of them.

Oh, definitely not 18 of them. (In fact, I don't think he's level 18, even at the latest point in the comic. 16 or maybe 17.) My guess is 4 or 5 free levels. He certainly gained many of his levels the old-fashioned gradual way.

[Larkspur]

I've read speculation that the Crimson Mantle could allow its wielder to automatically pass all saving throws, explaining why Redcloak gambled in such a way as to have a spell duel with the High Priest of the Twelve Gods. After all, normally there is a 5% chance of rolling a natural one, but Redcloak didn't seem to care about that. He didn't even have to ask questions like if 21 saved.

Unlikely- he explicitly said he was risking his life by dueling. Given his crappy optimization his Will saves are probably through the roof, so I don't think we need a supernatural explanation for his survival. (Although the Mantle might auto-save you against spells that take a Fort save, since those tend to be disease-y in character; that would explain how he was able to save against Blindness).

Gods can have more than two domains, right? I wonder if the Mantle gives Redcloak access to all of the Dark One's- but we've never seen him use anything but Destruction and Law.

[hamishspence]

We know one of them is Evil- the white-cloaked cleric in strip 11 uses Unholy Blight, which can only be gotten via the Evil domain.

[Nerdanel]

I think Destruction SLA is as much as confirmed too. There's no way Redcloak could have cast a seventh level spell at the time without it having been granted by the Crimson Mantle. (Well, you might consider invisible wands/scrolls of Destruction, but I won't, given the circumstances.)

[hamishspence]

The word was "smite" not "destruction" when cloak was put on. Destruction domain grants a smite ability once per day.

Though I'm not sure what Redcloak used on the horse.

His uses of disintegration (Destruction domain spell) may come from the domain, rather than the Mantle.

[Asta Kask]

It's a chick magnet.

[Nerdanel]

Both Destruction and Disintegrate could have poofed the horse, but the SFX match Destruction and not Disintegrate. In any case, both would be 7th level for a cleric, making them equally impossible for Redcloak to cast at that point.


A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

The lack of us hearing the spell name is perfectly consistent with a SLA. (The speech bubble could have been there out of the panel, though.)

[Olorin93]

Though I'm not sure what Redcloak used on the horse.

Maybe the Cloak grants use of a specific spell like Dismissal 1/day. The special save DC for Dismissal cast from a spell trigger item would be 19 and a Heavy Warhorse only has a +2 Will save, so that's quite reasonable.

[Linkavitch]

We know one of them is Evil- the white-cloaked cleric in strip 11 uses Unholy Blight, which can only be gotten via the Evil domain.

But, um, that was that particular cleric's domain, not Reddie's.

[Alteran]

But, um, that was that particular cleric's domain, not Reddie's.

Yes, but since he's a cleric who works under Xykon and Redcloak, it's very likely they both worship the Dark One. Therefore, Evil would be one of the Dark One's domains.

[Zevox]

Yes, but since he's a cleric who works under Xykon and Redcloak, it's very likely they both worship the Dark One. Therefore, Evil would be one of the Dark One's domains.
That could also be logically deduced from the simple fact that the Dark One is evil, and every god gets the domains of their alignments anyway.

Zevox

[Forbiddenwar]

Both Destruction and Disintegrate could have poofed the horse, but the SFX match Destruction and not Disintegrate.

No. the sound effect for the spell used against the horse is poof.

The sound effect of Destruction is Zot!, not poof.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

Disintegrate has no sound effect.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html

The sound effect of Dismissal is POP, not poof.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html

In short we have no idea what redcloak used against the horse. It could be disintergrate, if disintergrate affects magical beasts (paladin's mount in 3.0)different from dragons. but it seems doubtful.

[Draz74]

[QUOTE=Nerdanel;6433033]The sound effect of Destruction is Zot!, not poof.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

That's apparently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html) only when it kills the target.

[Steward]

How long do Goblins normally live in this universe? Are they as long as humans? Elves?

[Zevox]

How long do Goblins normally live in this universe? Are they as long as humans? Elves?
Shorter than Humans. In Start of Darkness, Right-Eye once made the comment to Redcloak that "We're Goblins, 'extended lifespan' isn't on our list of racial traits. If I'm going to grow old and die by the time I reach 50, I want to be sure I don't waste one moment of that time."

Zevox

[DnDgeek13]

I believe it also makes RC immune to the effects of aging (immortal?).

It doesn't stop the effects of aging. it just slows it down incredably

[Morquard]

Ok thats nagging on me now ... what horse are you talking about?

And spell-names aren't always mentioned.

[Forbiddenwar]

Ok thats nagging on me now ... what horse are you talking about?

And spell-names aren't always mentioned.

The horse redcloak poofs in SOD, pg 14, right before he uses smite.
because the spell or effect is cast off panel, and has a Poof! sound effect when completely destroys the target (no ash even) there is some debate of what power/spell/effect that was used. it looks like a ray like destruction, and perhaps it is, and the difference in sound effect is due to the differences of the targets (paladin's mount=poof, cleric=zot!)
but we don't know for sure.
The reason for the debate here is clear. Is it a power or spell or effect granted from the red mantle?

[Milskidasith]

It could have been planeshift, couldn't it?

[Forbiddenwar]

Planeshift is a touch spell, and this was not.
However, if the cloak allows the ability to cast touch spells as ranged touch rays, which is possible, then it could be planeshift.

[Milskidasith]

Ah. I don't have SoD, so I'm not exactly familiar with the dxact details of every scene.

[Morquard]

It might just have been the houseruled "make the horse go poof" ray.

[MrPig]

The horse redcloak poofs in SOD, pg 14, right before he uses smite.
because the spell or effect is cast off panel, and has a Poof! sound effect when completely destroys the target (no ash even) there is some debate of what power/spell/effect that was used. it looks like a ray like destruction, and perhaps it is, and the difference in sound effect is due to the differences of the targets (paladin's mount=poof, cleric=zot!)
but we don't know for sure.
The reason for the debate here is clear. Is it a power or spell or effect granted from the red mantle?

Isn't "Poof" the sound effect made by outsiders returning to their plain when they are "destroyed" or banished? I mean, Paladin horses reside on the Celestial Plain and are shown to "poof" when they appear and disappear.

Demon Roach: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0654.html
V's Familiar: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0660.html

I couldn't find the comic (mostly because I'm very lazy), but when Argent was poisoned, he also "poofed" in order to heal in the Celestial Realm.

[Nerdanel]

I was talking about the visual SFX. Disintegrate is a ray, Destruction isn't. The two spells are very similar in some respects but have a number of differences.

Though now that I think of it, I suppose the horse could have died to something like Slay Living and disappeared because it was a special paladin mount. On the other hand, the paladin riding it didn't seem to be high level at all, pointing to a normal horse or the Crimson Mantle improving Smite damage or the wimpiest level 5 paladin ever. But since we have never since seen Redcloak use his daily Smite ability, it probably isn't much more powerful than a normal Destruction-domain cleric's.

By the way, I just noticed that the cleric duel page has an error in it, which was probably deliberate in order to facilitate the stepping into cleric joke. Disintegrate is the spell that leaves a trace of fine dust behind, while Destruction doesn't.

[Elfey]

The Crimson Mantle is an Artifact of the Dark One, and the holiest artifact of Goblinkind. It also seemed to make Redcloak a meat puppet when he first put it on, he had beams coming out of his eyes while he was told the plan.

Like other said, it's retarded his aging process, given him several levels and abilities (he started at maybe level 1 cleric right before he put it on), he's immune to disease, and he's got a conduit directly to The Dark One.

The aging is especially noticeable because his Younger Brother Right Eye was, at about 6 months before Strip 001, very visibly old with children approaching their teens.

Any Cleric of the Dark One can use the mantle, but everytime it has switched, 'Good' characters killed the mantle wearer.

[hamishspence]

That could also be logically deduced from the simple fact that the Dark One is evil, and every god gets the domains of their alignments anyway.

Zevox

Usually, but there are exceptions- Evil gods that don't have Evil domain, or gods with an alignment domain that doesn't match their actual alignment (Maglubiyet- NE, grants the Chaos domain)

[Zevox]

Usually, but there are exceptions- Evil gods that don't have Evil domain, or gods with an alignment domain that doesn't match their actual alignment (Maglubiyet- NE, grants the Chaos domain)
There aren't any exceptions that I'm aware of - though I'm really only aware of the Forgotten Realms gods and the PHB ones. Perhaps you're thinking of some setting-specific exceptions? Is the god you named from Eberron or something, for instance?

Zevox

[Kish]

He's the god of goblins in Greyhawk and, to my knowledge, also Forgotten Realms and...most campaign settings, by default.

[hamishspence]

Dig through the Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons, or Complete Divine, and you will probably find a few deities without a relevant alignment domain.

You will also find (especially in Faiths and Pantheons) exceptions to the One Step rule- NE deities which allow LN and CN clerics, such as Auril, and Velsharoon.

(Having seen Maglubiyet's list, I wondered if The Dark One was his Lawful counterpart- an NE deity with Law domain, allowing CE bugbears to worship him, but being a little more Lawful than most NE deities)

[Teddy]

By the way, I just noticed that the cleric duel page has an error in it, which was probably deliberate in order to facilitate the stepping into cleric joke. Disintegrate is the spell that leaves a trace of fine dust behind, while Destruction doesn't.

Actually, in the OotS-verse, Disintegration leaves quite a heap of ash (see dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) and Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html). Destruction compleatly destroys the body, and here it leaves but a smoking mark on the ground (poor cleric actually got a 22 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html))

[awibs]

Actually, in the OotS-verse, Disintegration leaves quite a heap of ash (see dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) and Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html). Destruction compleatly destroys the body, and here it leaves but a smoking mark on the ground (poor cleric actually got a 22 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html))

Can you show me where the strip in which destruction is actually used is? I have a hazy memory of a jokingly easy to illustrate cleric duel, (which I am assuming is the referenced cleric who got a 22) but I don't remember where in the storyline it happened.

[Azura]

Can you show me where the strip in which destruction is actually used is? I have a hazy memory of a jokingly easy to illustrate cleric duel, (which I am assuming is the referenced cleric who got a 22) but I don't remember where in the storyline it happened.

Here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html)

[Forbiddenwar]

I was reading SOD again and realized, whatever the crimson mantle does, it did not grant spells higher than 4th level.
Because when they were trapped in lirian's prison redcloak states he can't cast Heal, a 5th lvl spell, because he wasn't a high enough level.
So whatever he casted on the horse, it wasn't disintergrate nor destruction. Maybe it was dismissal, level 4. Or maybe the cloak allowed redcloak to cast any domain spell of any level. Dismissal seems like a good guess, which would mean, if redcloak was 1st level before putting it on, then it automatically allowed redcloak to prepare spells, with additional spell levels, as a cleric with 3 levels higher. hmm, that doesn't seem likely either.
I guess it had to be something else.

[Draz74]

Heal's actually 6th level.

But yeah, you're still probably correct, because Redcloak had many years between donning the Mantle and being imprisoned by Lirian, during which he no doubt leveled.

The impression I got was that the Mantle bumped him up to maybe Level 6, and then after that he had to earn levels normally.

[Olorin93]

So whatever he casted on the horse, it wasn't disintergrate nor destruction. Maybe it was dismissal, level 4. Or maybe the cloak allowed redcloak to cast any domain spell of any level. Dismissal seems like a good guess, which would mean, if redcloak was 1st level before putting it on, then it automatically allowed redcloak to prepare spells, with additional spell levels, as a cleric with 3 levels higher. hmm, that doesn't seem likely either.
I guess it had to be something else.

There's a difference between allowing him to prepare extra spells (which would have requried rest and prayer anyway) and acting as a spell trigger item for specific spells (like a wand). Since Redcloak was able to cast whichever spell it was against the horse pretty much immediately after putting on the cloak, I believe it was a spell trigger for that specific spell. That's a much simpler effect than granting the wearer levels and such.

I still believe it was Dismissal, since that would be very useful for clerics of the Dark One, since they often need to fight off good clerics (who like to summon archons or celestial animals) and paladins (whose mounts are outsiders). If we really think the Giant is being consistent about the distinction between "poof" and "pop", that can be explained as the difference between voluntarily changing planes and being involuntarily dismissed.

[SadisticFishing]

It gives you knowledge of the Plan, slows aging, and protects from disease.

Those are the only things we have even a shred of evidence for.

[Optimystik]

It doesn't stop the effects of aging. it just slows it down incredably

Or it allows him to ignore them right up until the moment he dies, like the Monk and Druid ability Timeless Body. (Not the psionic one.) In that case, it would stop the penalties of aging.

Scratch that: I think it slows his aging.

As for the horse, it was not dismissed, plane shifted or anything transportative like that. X's are clearly visible in its eyes after the spell hits but before it disappears. Compare this to the Titanium Elementals that Vaarsuvius Dismisses - they get the "eek" expression before disappearing, but they don't die. (And we know elementals can get X's in their eyes thanks to Tsukiko and the Chlorine Elemental.

[Forbiddenwar]

if that's the case then redcloak could die from old age at any moment:smalleek:
in 34 years his younger brother went from a child to a wizened white haired bald goblin. by my math, redcloak could be pushing fifty.

[Olorin93]

As for the horse, it was not dismissed, plane shifted or anything transportative like that. X's are clearly visible in its eyes after the spell hits but before it disappears.

You're right - I had completely missed the X's! OK, Dismissal withdrawn. ;-)

[Optimystik]

if that's the case then redcloak could die from old age at any moment:smalleek:
in 34 years his younger brother went from a child to a wizened white haired bald goblin. by my math, redcloak could be pushing fifty.

Actually, I retract my previous statement. The cloak seems to slow his aging.

Redcloak refers to the process at least twice:

1) In Lirian's prison: "My master told me that the cloak slows the aging process of its wearer..."

2) Upon meeting Right-Eye's family after Xykon's disappearance: "The Dark One has blessed me with extended youth."


So it seems to be slow aging rather than immortality or hidden aging.

[Asta Kask]

The Crimson Mantle is an Artifact of the Dark One, and the holiest artifact of Goblinkind. It also seemed to make Redcloak a meat puppet when he first put it on, he had beams coming out of his eyes while he was told the plan.

Interestingly, the hobgoblins (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html) didn't recognize it. But we're probably not supposed to think about that. :)