[3.5] How do I protect an Undead from Fort dangers?

[KillianHawkeye]

So I'm planning on playing a Necropolitan Dread Necromancer in an upcoming game, and I'm kinda feat-starved. I have access to Flaws from UA, but there aren't many that I wanna take. I'm considering Meager Fortitude, since as an Undead, I'm not vulnerable to most things that require a Fort save. However, I know there are some things that will still affect me and they're not very nice, so I have a couple questions....

First, besides disintegrate, what are some other really bad Fort-targeting spells or effects that work against Undead?

And second, is there a good/easy way to protect myself from said menaces (assuming my Fortitude is going to be down in the dumps)?


Thanks.

[Pulsecode]

I'm not enough of an expert on this system to contribute much in the way of cunning tricks and obscure feats... but I will say as a DM in many other systems that I'd frown deeply on someone taking a flaw only because they've covered all the bases and they know it'll never come up.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spell Resistance is probably the best secondary defense to such attacks, though supernatural effects such as a Beholder's disintegration eye ray will ignore SR.

Personally I'd forget about Necropolitan and take the feat Tomb-Tainted Soul in Libris Mortis. Other than Versatile Spellcaster there aren't really any feats that a Dread Necromancer needs to take. I definitely wouldn't take a flaw that makes your already-weak Fortitude save even weaker, my first choices would be Noncombatant and Murky-Eyed.

[Coidzor]

Since your martial weapons proficiency should probably be in something ranged due to your more support/command role anyway... Though that might affect one's ability to use spectral hand to make touch attacks...?

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889

Most of the ways listed here seem to require a level dip or two.

[Gaiyamato]

I am sure there is an X stat to Y ability thing somewhere that lets you add Wis etc. to your Fort saves. :P

[shadow_archmagi]

What's so bad about Disintegrate, anyway? It doesn't seem to be any worse for undead than it is for anything else.

[AslanCross]

What's so bad about Disintegrate, anyway? It doesn't seem to be any worse for undead than it is for anything else.

I think by "bad" he means dangerous to him. Unlike most Fort-save spells, Disintegrate can harm objects, so undead are vulnerable to it.

[Gorbash]

What's so bad about Disintegrate, anyway? It doesn't seem to be any worse for undead than it is for anything else.

Undead have no Con score and have bad fortitude saves meaning their fort saves is worse than bad which means they'll usually pass that save only on a natural 20. Which, in turn, makes every Transmuter's eyes sparkle with glee once they spot an undead. :smallbiggrin:

Glass Strike is also a nice option against undead.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Disintegrate is 2d6 damage/level on a failed save, undead get 1d12 HP/level. Chances are a Disintegrate from a caster level equal to your character level will destroy you in one shot. Remember that it's a ranged touch attack, so effects like Displacement and just putting a lot of minions between you and the caster will certainly help. Get a few skeletons with Tower Shields to stand around you using them for cover if you're really paranoid.

If you're going to make an undead character, say he was created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ who had choice feats from the Corpsecrafter line in Libris Mortis, plus it happened in the area of a Desecrate with an evil altar. That gets you a total of:
Dread Necromancer 8+: +4 Enhancement bonus to Str and Dex, +2 HP/HD
Desecrate: +2 HP/HD
Corpsecrafter: +4 Enhancement bonus to Str (redundant), +2 HP/HD
-Bolster Resistance: +4 Turn Resistance
-Nimble Bones: +4 Initiative, +10 ft. land speed
-Hardened Flesh: +2 Natural Armor

Nimble Bones and Hardened Flesh are a bit optional, take them if you can get them but don't push it. It's almost necessary to have been created by a Dread Necormancer with Corpsecrafter and Bolster Resistance in the area of a Desecrate though. +4 Str and Dex, +4 Turn Resistance, +6 HP/HD!

[mikej]

I was once in a similiar situation. My undead character was vulnerable to Disintegrate and my DM made it clear that he knew about it. That's until I opened the SpC to find "Ray Deflection", that was a perfert fit against my greatest threat. Not familiar with the Dread Necromancer though, if it's possible for that class to obtain that spell. Ray Deflection is on page 166 of the Spell Compendium.

Another good option. Headband of Conscious Effort (MIC 109, 2000gp), make a Concentration check in place of a Fortitude save once per day.

[Amiel]

A couple of questions first; what level are you and what's your alignment?

With that out of the way, how adverse are you to taking magical items and spells to shore up your Fort deficiency?

You could equip cloaks of resistance of +X or at least try to get your hands on a desecrated item. Good for you, bad for everyone else.
Another way to improve your saving throws is to cast resistance and have someone make it permanent with permanency (through an intermediary or other third-party) .
Desecrate is most important to undead, try to have it active at (nearly) all times.

If you're of high enough level, try to get access to globe of invulnerability or antimagic field.

A few suggestions. Feats from Liber Mortis: Improved Toughness, Positive Energy Resistance, Profane Vigor and spells from the same supplement: protection from positive energy, sheltered vitality, consumptive field, greater consumptive field.

Also, think laterally. Since disintegrate is a ray and a ranged touch attack, you can activate an entropic shield for some breathing room (oh, the irony!).
Likewise, bear's endurance, while it won't boost your Con score since you lack any, will still give you a +X to Fort saves and it works on creatures, rather than specifying who or what can or can't be affected. Then again, your DM may disallow this spell to benefit undead. Spell resistance will also help.
Also, applications of antilife shells will cause opponents to think twice about attacking you, given that the energy field it enacts prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.

Or you could saturate the area with your own created undead and get them to bear the brunt of enemy attacks.

[Coidzor]

If you're going to make an undead character, say he was created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ who had choice feats from the Corpsecrafter line in Libris Mortis, plus it happened in the area of a Desecrate with an evil altar.

Ah... the joys of mentors/organizations!

[Gorbash]

entropic shield

Not on Dread Necromancer spell list.


protection from positive energy, sheltered vitality, consumptive field, greater consumptive field.

What do these have to do with Disintegrate? And also, not on Dread Necromancer spell list.


bear's endurance

Not on Dread Necromancer spell list.


Spell resistance

Not on Dread Necromancer spell list.


antilife shells

Not on Dread Necromancer spell list.

[Amiel]

Not on Dread Necromancer spell list et al

Note I never specified that the necropolitan should cast those spells him(it)self. All the examples used activate or applications thereof and never mentioned the physical act of casting. These divine spells and the suggested spells from Liber Mortis can be applied by friendly clerics or other arcanists.


What do these have to do with Disintegrate? And also, not on Dread Necromancer spell list.

Why won't they have anything to do with the OP's request? :smallconfused:


First, besides disintegrate, what are some other really bad Fort-targeting spells or effects that work against Undead?[...]is there a good/easy way to protect myself from said menaces

Since the character is undead, he will obviously be vulnerable to positive energy, indeed his bane will be positive energy. Hence this is a menace and should be warded against. Likewise he can protect himself with sheltered vitality against said menaces. With consumptive fields he can leech energy to benefit himself. Again, he need not cast these spells himself.

[Gorbash]

Likewise he can protect himself with sheltered vitality against said menaces

Sheltered vitality has a target of 'living creature touched', first of all, so it wouldn't work on a necropolitan. Second of all, even if it could be cast on him, why would he need it, he's already immune to ability drain and damage since he's undead?

Entropic Shield is a personal range spell.

And, to be fair, his question is how to protect himself from really bad undead targeting fort spells:


First, besides disintegrate, what are some other really bad Fort-targeting spells or effects that work against Undead?

Which are, aside from Disintegrate, to my knowledge, Glass Strike, which is even worse, since it doesn't require a ranged touch and it's a higher lvl spel, meaning I higher DC. For those of you who don't know, Glass Strike is a Flesh to Stone type of spell which also works on objects.

I ended a big fight with a vampire boss in one round with it, just the last session. :smallbiggrin: DC 28. :smallbiggrin:

[Amiel]

Sheltered vitality has a target of 'living creature touched', first of all, so it wouldn't work on a necropolitan. Second of all, even if it could be cast on him, why would he need it, he's already immune to ability drain and damage since he's undead?

For the lulz? :smallbiggrin:
I don't have source in front of me, but he can have it to throw off a detect magic or similar spell. Is the being in front of the adventurers really undead? Nothing a gentle repose can't fix; ie, lateral thinking.

While not directly conferring benefits to the necropolitan, nothing states that the necropolitan can't be devious or pursue other and subtle means to avoid being destroyed, which is the main issue at hand.


Entropic Shield is a personal range spell.

It does not preclude him from casting it from a scroll. The other spells you mentioned that are not on the Dread Necromancer's spell list likewise does not preclude him from casting them from or as scrolls (with UMD).


And, to be fair, his question is how to protect himself from really bad undead targeting fort spells:

And so is not only limited to disintegrate as you asserted it to be.
To be likewise fair, the latter part of the sentence can be inferred to be referencing 'any other effects that work against undead.' My concern is positive energy, which he should be equally worried about. A cure wounds spell of any variation would pose an equal if not more serious problem to disintegrate.

Another are the spells from the Sun domain since undead may be lacking in the area of good Reflex saves (of course this is dependent on the Dex of the undead), especially searing light, sunbeam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunbeam.htm) and sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm), equally dangerous as disintegrate but force a Reflex save rather than Fort. Both spells force immediate destruction upon undead if they fail their save.

[Gorbash]

(with UMD)

...which is not on their class skill list. It is keyed off charisma, though, but since Int is a dump stat for DN, they won't have a lot of skill points, making it less likely strategy.


Both spells force immediate destruction upon undead if they fail their save.

No, they don't. They both destroy undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fails its save. Vampires and the like, not Necropolitan. Sure it does d6/lvl, but so does a fireball and similar spells and he still has his Dex score, meaning his reflex save isn't that terrible, which is way he's afraid of Disintegrate and Glass Strike. So it's not as dangerous as Disintegrate, since it does half the damage of Disintegrate.

The only viable option in this topic so far is Headband of Conscious Effort. Add a Tunic of Steady Spellcasting to that (+5 on Concentration checks) and problem is solved, 1/day.

[Night Monkey]

Give yourself the best touch AC you can. Pumping your DEX will boost your normal and touch AC, as well as improving your reflex saves against nasty Sun domain spells as mentioned above. It'll also improve your accuracy with your own ranged touch attacks.

[Keld Denar]

Martial Study: Mind Over Body would work. Its a 3rd level maneuver, so you could nab it as your 6th level feat. Martial Study's only prereq is that you have an IL high enough for the maneuver, and that you meet all the prereqs for the maneuver. Mind Over Body doesn't require any other Diamond Mind maneuvers known, so you can cherry pick just it.

That protects you 1/encounter. If you also pick up the headband, you should be protected 1/encounter, and once per day 2/encounter. Thats pretty good protection, if you ask me!

[Dixieboy]

Undead have no Con score and have bad fortitude saves meaning their fort saves is worse than bad which means they'll usually pass that save only on a natural 20. Which, in turn, makes every Transmuter's eyes sparkle with glee once they spot an undead. :smallbiggrin:

Glass Strike is also a nice option against undead.

But wait!

Aren't undeads immune to stuff requiring a fort save? :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

But wait!

Aren't undead immune to stuff requiring a fort save? :smallconfused:

Unless it'll effect objects too, then it'll effect undead. Because while they're not alive, they do have bodies. Except for the ones which don't. Then it's about morphic fields or something.

[only1doug]

But wait!

Aren't undeads immune to stuff requiring a fort save? :smallconfused:

If you'd like to start reading the thread at the first post....


<snip> I'm considering Meager Fortitude, since as an Undead, I'm not vulnerable to most things that require a Fort save. However, I know there are some things that will still affect me and they're not very nice, so I have a couple questions....

First, besides disintegrate, what are some other really bad Fort-targeting spells or effects that work against Undead?

And second, is there a good/easy way to protect myself from said menaces (assuming my Fortitude is going to be down in the dumps)?


Thanks.

[Gorbash]

Why wouldn't Str be a dump stat for DN? And remember it is a necropolitan, so it's reasonably intelligent.

Who says they have only one dump stat? He's Dread Necromancer first, Necropolitan second, you're thinking too much in fluff terms (since Necropolitan template doesn't gain any boost to Int), and here we are discussing mechanics. Even with Int 14 that would mean 4 skill points. Concentration, Spellcraft are mandatory and UMD isn't THAT important to him, and there are better skills.


Although really, the spells should force other undead apart from vampires to save or die. Do the necropolitan feel uncomfortable within sunlight and is it unnatural to them?

That's just your opinion. It doesn't say in description of Necropolitan they are harmed by sunlight, so they aren't.


Aren't undeads immune to stuff requiring a fort save?

They are immune to stuff requiring fort save unless they also work on objects. Since Glass Strike also works on objects, it works on undead just fine.

[Amiel]

...which is not on their class skill list. It is keyed off charisma, though, but since Int is a dump stat for DN, they won't have a lot of skill points, making it less likely strategy.

But does this discount acquiring it via cross-class skills.
Why wouldn't Str be a dump stat for DN? And remember it is a necropolitan, so it's reasonably intelligent.


Who says they have only one dump stat? He's Dread Necromancer first, Necropolitan second, you're thinking too much in fluff terms (since Necropolitan template doesn't gain any boost to Int), and here we are discussing mechanics. Even with Int 14 that would mean 4 skill points. Concentration, Spellcraft are mandatory and UMD isn't THAT important to him, and there are better skills.

DN doesn't suffer from MAD so it doesn't need too many dump stats. When all is considered, Int is as arguably as important to the DN as Dex or Con.
Fluff should be taken into equal consideration with mechanics.
And if thinking in mechanical terms, Con should be the dump stat since as undead it becomes absolutely unnecessary.

Like I said, UMD becomes important if he wishes the maximal chance/opportunity to survive since it cannot heal itself, which does hinge on mechanics.



No, they don't. They both destroy undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fails its save. Vampires et al and the like, not Necropolitan. Sure it does d6/lvl, but so does a fireball and similar spells and he still has his Dex score, meaning his reflex save isn't that terrible, which is way he's afraid of Disintegrate and Glass Strike. So it's not as dangerous as Disintegrate, since it does half the damage of Disintegrate.

Well, some undead, actually the majority of undead; I should have made it clearer. I blame the ungodly and having to work two shifts. Although really, the spells should force other undead apart from vampires to save or die. Do the necropolitan feel uncomfortable within sunlight and is it unnatural to them?

Actually when all is considered, despite undead possessing poor Fort saves, sunburst is arguably deadlier, most notable due to long range and capacity to deal double damage.


That's just your opinion. It doesn't say in description of Necropolitan they are harmed by sunlight, so they aren't.

I asked it as a question not as a statement, since I don't have the source in front of me. Thanks though.

Edit. Apologies for the break up, my browser has been experiencing some issues.

To the OP, please do get your hands on a globe of invulnerability or antimagic field, it'd make things a lot easier.
Oh, by the way, this link will help you a lot. Go on the spell filter to check which spells specifically ask for Fort saves (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/)

Some spells you should be wary of; some may not work on all undead
Baleful polymorph
Destruction
Sound burst
Shout
Greater shout
Shatter
Polymorph any object
Flesh to stone
Implosion

[Gorbash]

Actually when all is considered, despite undead possessing poor Fort saves, sunburst is arguably deadlier, most notable due to long range and capacity to deal double damage.

Again, double damage only works on those creatures harmed by sunlight, which Necropolitan isn't.

Sunburst has a max of 25d6, Disintegrate has 40d6. You do the math.

[Coidzor]

Another are the spells from the Sun domain since undead may be lacking in the area of good Reflex saves (of course this is dependent on the Dex of the undead), especially searing light, sunbeam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunbeam.htm) and sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm), equally dangerous as disintegrate but force a Reflex save rather than Fort. Both spells force immediate destruction upon undead if they fail their save.

Fortunately...
In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save.so, y'know, more limited subset of instantly destroyed than just undead... Unfortunately, failing the save still is unpleasant.

[Keld Denar]

To the OP, please do get your hands on a globe of invulnerability or antimagic field, it'd make things a lot easier.
Globe is stationary, and without serious shananigans, AMF is self-neutering.



Some spells you should be wary of; some may not work on all undead
Baleful polymorph
Destruction
Sound burst
Shout
Greater shout
Shatter
Polymorph any object
Flesh to stone
Implosion

Of those, all the [Sonic] ones can be excluded since they only affect Crystaline Objects. Destruction, Implosion, Flesh to Stone, and Baleful Polymorph don't affect objects at all. That leaves PAO, which is 8th level, and not really an issue till ~11th or 12th level as a PC anyway. Typically...

[Amiel]

Again, double damage only works on those creatures harmed by sunlight, which Necropolitan isn't.

Sunburst has a max of 25d6, Disintegrate has 40d6. You do the math.

Again, I mean


Well, some undead, actually the majority of undead. Actually when all is considered, despite undead possessing poor Fort saves, sunburst is arguably deadlier, most notable due to long range and capacity to deal double damage.

Continued below.

Fortunately...so, y'know, more limited subset of instantly destroyed than just undead... Unfortunately, failing the save still is unpleasant.

Dreadfully unpleasant. All the more so since the undead cannot heal themselves, unless of course it somehow manages to avail itself of negative energy.

[raitalin]

You won't be able to take it right out of the box, but there's "Proof against transmuation", a +5 armor ability that makes you immune to just about every Fort save that an undead isn't already immune to.

EDIT: Its in Magic of Faerun and Complete Arcane. The cheapest route would be padded armor +1 of Proof against Transmutation and just risking the 5% ASF. The best way would be applying it to Bracers of Armor by the A&EG rules, which is crazy expensive.

EDIT2: I don't see any reason Polymorph Any Object wouldn't affect undead, as its creature or nonmagical object (is that why, 'cause undead are magical?). I'd certainly allow it, considering how many immunities they have already.

[Irreverent Fool]

First of all, I think that trying to negate the penalty of a flaw like you're doing is in poor taste and I would not fault your DM if s/he disallows it. Fortunately, I burned my tongue today and don't have much of a sense of taste.


First, besides disintegrate, what are some other really bad Fort-targeting spells or effects that work against Undead?
Polymorph any object comes to mind. You may find yourself becoming a chair for extended periods should you have to face this. Against more evil spellcasters (and DMs), a pile of dust or puddle of water that is quickly sent to the four corners of the Earth or poured into the ocean.

EDIT: Apparently PAO was mentioned multiple times. It definitely affects undead.


And second, is there a good/easy way to protect myself from said menaces (assuming my Fortitude is going to be down in the dumps)?

Buy a tower shield or two.


Dreadfully unpleasant. All the more so since the undead cannot heal themselves, unless of course it somehow manages to avail itself of negative energy.

Healing isn't a problem for an undead Dread Necromancer unless he stops being able to touch himself.

obnoxious
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[Keld Denar]

Dreadfully unpleasant. All the more so since the undead cannot heal themselves, unless of course it somehow manages to avail itself of negative energy.

Um...you do know what a Dread Necromancer is, right? Its a class with a feature called Charnal Tough. Its an AT WILL ability that does a handful of damage on touch. So...a Necropolitan DN could just...you know...touch himself in that good way we all like, healing himself infinitely out of combat as long as time isn't hugely pressing, and even if it is, it only takes about 1-2 minutes for a mid level DN to heal himself to full TOPS.

Could you at least please reread the OP and understand the class and features before giving advice that isn't applicable, or start a new thread if you want to discuss things. Its generally poor netiquite to hijack threads, intentionally or otherwise.

[Amiel]

Globe is stationary, and without serious shananigans, AMF is self-neutering.

He can remain stationary. And his undead can still remain while he is within an AMF.


Of those, all the [Sonic] ones can be excluded since they only affect Crystaline Objects. Destruction, Implosion, Flesh to Stone, and Baleful Polymorph don't affect objects at all. That leaves PAO, which is 8th level, and not really an issue till ~11th or 12th level as a PC anyway. Typically...

Actually, you're wrong about the [Sonic] spells; please go reread the descriptions and state exactly where it says they only affect crystalline objects.

Implosion should arguably be within the same bracket and makes for great descriptive flavor to boot :smallsmile:, but the others are out, yes.


Um...you do know what a Dread Necromancer is, right? Its a class with a feature called Charnal Tough. Its an AT WILL ability that does a handful of damage on touch. So...a Necropolitan DN could just...you know...touch himself in that good way we all like, healing himself infinitely out of combat as long as time isn't hugely pressing, and even if it is, it only takes about 1-2 minutes for a mid level DN to heal himself to full TOPS.

Could you at least please reread the OP and understand the class and features before giving advice that isn't applicable, or start a new thread if you want to discuss things. Its generally poor netiquite to hijack threads, intentionally or otherwise.

Just so you know and please don't jump to any conclusions, I was replying to this.


Fortunately...so, y'know, more limited subset of instantly destroyed than just undead... Unfortunately, failing the save still is unpleasant.

Dreadfully unpleasant. All the more so since the undead (note general) cannot heal themselves, unless of course it somehow manages to avail itself of negative energy.
Emphasis mine.

[Keld Denar]

Shout (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shout.htm)


Shout
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Reflex negates (object); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

You emit an ear-splitting yell that deafens and damages creatures in its path. Any creature within the area is deafened for 2d6 rounds and takes 5d6 points of sonic damage. A successful save negates the deafness and reduces the damage by half. Any exposed brittle or crystalline object or crystalline creature takes 1d6 points of sonic damage per caster level (maximum 15d6). An affected creature is allowed a Fortitude save to reduce the damage by half, and a creature holding fragile objects can negate damage to them with a successful Reflex save.

A shout spell cannot penetrate a silence spell

So, the first part, the 2d6 rounds of deafen and the 5d6 sonic damage is only for creatures, which undead are not. The 2nd part, the part I bolded about objects, only references crystaline creatures, which undead are also not.

Thusly, no part of the spell affects a necropolitan.
Sound Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm)


Sound Burst
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

You blast an area with a tremendous cacophony. Every creature in the area takes 1d8 points of sonic damage and must succeed on a Fortitude save to avoid being stunned for 1 round.

Creatures that cannot hear are not stunned but are still damaged.

Arcane Focus
A musical instrument.

Does not affect objects. Undead are immune.

As far as the rest of it, it wasn't relevant to the topic of the thread. If you want to discuss it further, starting a new thread or asking the OPs permission to derail is general common courtesy.

[Amiel]

Shout (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shout.htm)

Thusly, no part of the spell affects a necropolitan.
Sound Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm)

Does not affect objects. Undead are immune.

Wait, undead aren't creatures?

However you would want to look at it in order to twist it, crystalline objects are still objects foremost. You're right about sound burst; I should really head off to the sleep :(.


As far as the rest of it, it wasn't relevant to the topic of the thread. If you want to discuss it further, starting a new thread or asking the OPs permission to derail is general common courtesy.

Apologies to the OP, but it was relevant since prior before that it discussed harmful effects from spells of the Sun domain.

[Keld Denar]

Wait, undead aren't creatures?

Not with respect to Fort saves. If it has a fort save, and doesn't explicitly affect objects, then it doesn't affect undead. Its right there in the creature type.

Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)


Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless


The damage from a Sound Burst WOULD affect an undead, since there is no save. Its just damage. The stunning part it the only part with a save. That doesn't matter though, since undead are immune to stunning anyway...

[Gorbash]

Dreadfully unpleasant. All the more so since the undead (note general) cannot heal themselves, unless of course it somehow manages to avail itself of negative energy.

Unless that particular Undead is say, Necropolitan, which heal damage as living creatures do.


Could you at least please reread the OP and understand the class and features before giving advice that isn't applicable, or start a new thread if you want to discuss things. Its generally poor netiquite to hijack threads, intentionally or otherwise.

I second this. You're just suggesting protection against some stuff that this particular undead doesn't worry about (undead that casts sheltered vitality that doesn't affect him etc), and it wasn't in the OP's question. He asked for protection from Disintegrate and the other fortitude object-affecting spells, which are none of those you suggested, so we're just disproving everything you say and not helping the OP at all.

[Moriato]

Likewise, bear's endurance, while it won't boost your Con score since you lack any, will still give you a +X to Fort saves

All bear's endurance does is give you +4 con. It doesn't improve your fort save directly, that's just a side effect of the +4 con.

[KillianHawkeye]

Thanks for all the replies!

After reading this and thinking about it for a while, I think I will instead take the Feeble flaw (gives a -2 penalty to all Str-, Dex-, and Con-based ability checks and skill checks) instead of Meager Fortitude. It feels less cheesy than dumping my almost-unimportant Fort save since they may come up more often, but since I will already be pretty bad at those things I may as well be horrible. :smallamused:

[Irreverent Fool]

Thanks for all the replies!

After reading this and thinking about it for a while, I think I will instead take the Feeble flaw (gives a -2 penalty to all Str-, Dex-, and Con-based ability checks and skill checks) instead of Meager Fortitude. It feels less cheesy than dumping my almost-unimportant Fort save since they may come up more often, but since I will already be pretty bad at those things I may as well be horrible. :smallamused:

I commend your decision to make your flaw an actual flaw.

obnoxious
sig