PDA

View Full Version : 4e: Rules clarification re: power choice



Zaeron
2009-07-05, 02:30 AM
A minor disagreement has come up in our group, and it left me curious.

The wording we disagree over is found on pages 27-28 of the PHB. It reads "At 1st level, select one
power from the list of 1st-level encounter attack powers
in your class description. At 3rd and 7th levels, you
learn a new encounter power of your level or lower." My group has taken this to mean that you could, say, at 7th level, have 3 different 1st level encounter powers.

Is this correct? I could have SWORN I read a rule somewhere that disallowed having multiple powers of the same level. The only evidence I can cite is circumstantial, though. I saw a charop build using a strength paladin that complained about all the 9th level daily powers being CHA based, and thus sub-optimal. If it was possible, that build would obviously have been better taking a lower level STR based power. What'm I missing?

Learnedguy
2009-07-05, 02:37 AM
Why wouldn't you be able to take lower level powers:smallconfused:?

I see nothing unbalancing in that.

Quayleman
2009-07-05, 02:37 AM
I believe that, as your group has interpreted it, whenever you gain a new power, you may select a power of that type for your level or lower

Totally Guy
2009-07-05, 02:42 AM
Yeah I believe that's correct.

You can't take the same power twice. But when you have the option to take an encounter power of level 7 it really means that you can choose from you your level 7th, 3rd and 1st level encounter powers.

You might be able to find a way this is beneficial but it would probably be considered as suboptimal as generally a higher level power is better that a lower level one.

Now for my question.

If you take lower level powers in this way can you retrain them to the original array using retraining? So say you have two 1st level powers and you hit level 4, can you retrain so that you can have a 1st level power and a 3rd level power?

Quayleman
2009-07-05, 02:46 AM
As far as I know that is also allowed.

You have a slot where you learned a 1st level power, and a slot (3rd or 1st) where you have another 1st level power, so you can retrain the (3rd or 1st) slot to any 3rd or 1st level power available to you.

Kurald Galain
2009-07-05, 04:21 AM
PHB page 27, "At 3rd and 7th levels, you learn a new encounter power of your level or lower." Emphasis mine. So yes, that's allowed.

PHB page 28, "You can replace a power with another power of the same type ... of the same level or lower," So technically, once you pick a level-1 power for your level-5 slot, you can't ever retrain it to a level-5 again. But really, a DM who enforces that would be being nasty for no reason.

Ninetail
2009-07-05, 04:44 AM
A minor disagreement has come up in our group, and it left me curious.

The wording we disagree over is found on pages 27-28 of the PHB. It reads "At 1st level, select one
power from the list of 1st-level encounter attack powers
in your class description. At 3rd and 7th levels, you
learn a new encounter power of your level or lower." My group has taken this to mean that you could, say, at 7th level, have 3 different 1st level encounter powers.


Your group is correct. You can't choose the same power twice (or more), but you can choose a different power of the same level, as long as that level is lower than the level of the power you'd normally be entitled to choose.

This is basically like selecting spells known for a spontaneous caster in 3.5e: You can fill a higher-level slot with a lower-level option. You can't take the same option, and you can't fill a lower-level slot with a higher-level option.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-07-05, 11:09 AM
PHB page 28, "You can replace a power with another power of the same type ... of the same level or lower," So technically, once you pick a level-1 power for your level-5 slot, you can't ever retrain it to a level-5 again. But really, a DM who enforces that would be being nasty for no reason.I feel the repeat of the "of the same level or lower" phrase was used to indicate that you would select a power for that "slot" as if you gained that level for the first time.

You are correct on the RAW there, of course, but I chalk that up to misguided writing rather than silly rules.