Grimlocks as villains?

[Brauron]

You know, I've never seen or heard any stories of Grimlocks being used as main villains in adventures, always minions of other, more powerful baddies. Is there anything inherent in Grimlocks that makes them unsuitable for use as villains?

I'm running a reasonably low-level campaign for relatively inexperienced players. So far I've run them through some short adventures to get them used to my DMing style before I drop them into the campaign proper.

They're going to find their way into a Demi-Plane consisting of a giant castle. Massive. It's like an entire enclosed city. This castle-plane (vaguely inspired by Gormenghast in Mervyn Peake's Titus Groan novels) is occupied by two noble houses who are basically in a state of prolonged cold war with one another. Both sides distrust the other and are convinced that the other is gearing up for an overwhelming assault, and so both sides are fortifying themselves against an attack that's never really going to come (the castle is essentially divided in two, with a long central corridor as a neutral zone). The portal the PCs entered through is only open for one day each year. Beneath the Castle is a mini-Underdark in which other portals (linked to portals in the main Material Plane's Underdark) can be found.

The main threat of the campaign (as planned so far) is a Grimlock Cleric of Erythnul and his followers who have entered this plane through the Underdark and are planning to slaughter the inhabitants of the castle and convert the entire castle-plane into a shrine to Erythnul.

Is there anything about Grimlocks that would make this unfeasible? Or is there some other reason they've never been used as main villains?

[Xefas]

Well, main villains usually come in one of two broad categories.

Big, impressive, blatantly supernatural. They're evil in an awe-inspiring inhuman way. Dragons, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Demon Princes, etc.

Humanoid, more able to be related to. They could be misunderstood evil, sympathetic evil, or "The enemy is us. Mankind is the *real* monster!" evil.

Grimlocks can't really be the first. And if you're going to do the second, why not just go with Humans? Or Drow? Or Halflings that ride velociraptors? There's no reason that one *can't* be the main antagonist. Just that there's so many more popular options.

[Brauron]

Hmm. I guess I just like D&D's cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers more than most people do. C'est la vie.

[Morty]

The thing about Grimlocks that besides "Blind, live underground, eat people" we know nothing of them, really. They practically scream "just there to be mooks". Which is not to say your idea doesn't work. It's perfectly feasible, I think.

[Jair Barik]

I think being blind could be a part of it. Its a major handicap and prevents traditional writing etc. making it hard to make them more intelligent. On the subject of humanoid style Major villains though they don't have to be too humanoid. Ogre mages work great but are still relatively human, Rakshasa similarly.

IMO theres a third category etween the two mentioned which is a cross between them, where you get the humanoid yet blatantly supernatural. The things that can have human goals but are monstrous yet don't necessarily fill us with awe.

[Eldariel]

The thing about Grimlocks that besides "Blind, live underground, eat people" we know nothing of them, really. They practically scream "just there to be mooks". Which is not to say your idea doesn't work. It's perfectly feasible, I think.

They're much like Drow, Mind Flayers or any other usually evil creatures from a place other than the surface prime, really. They make just as fine villains as the more common types, or even better due to being more rarely used. You'll have to come up with some stuff though since they lack written material like Lords of Madness or Drow of the Underdark...which is merely a good thing.

[Ryuuk]

Huh, never realized that the Grimlocks are pretty much the Morlocks from H. G. Well's "The Time Machine". I kinda disagree with the above, that there are only really two categories for evil. Even then though, they could fit into the first category a more subtle way. You're would have to really play up on the Blindsight though. Besides, if their head is a Cleric to the god of slaughter, you've got your supernatural right there.

You've probably never seen them used as main villains because they lean more towards henchmen.

[hamishspence]

Big, impressive, blatantly supernatural. They're evil in an awe-inspiring inhuman way. Dragons, Beholders, Mind Flayers, Demon Princes, etc.

Humanoid, more able to be related to. They could be misunderstood evil, sympathetic evil, or "The enemy is us. Mankind is the *real* monster!" evil.



There are about a dozen more in Champions of Ruin though most of those represent motives which could be applied to either.

[Xefas]

IMO theres a third category between the two mentioned which is a cross between them, where you get the humanoid yet blatantly supernatural. The things that can have human goals but are monstrous yet don't necessarily fill us with awe.


I kinda disagree with the above, that there are only really two categories for evil. Even then though, they could fit into the first category a more subtle way.


There are about a dozen more in Champions of Ruin though most of those represent motives which could be applied to either.

I was making a very vague generalization. I could've gone into more detail, and make a few dozens different kinds of evil, but one, that seems unnecessary to make my point, two, I would've been ninja'd, and three, it would be more likely to derail the thread into a 15 page flame war about alignment and real world moral implications that ends up getting locked with sour feelings all around.

[Brauron]

The thing about Grimlocks that besides "Blind, live underground, eat people" we know nothing of them, really. They practically scream "just there to be mooks". Which is not to say your idea doesn't work. It's perfectly feasible, I think.

Personally, I appreciate the "we know nothing about them" aspect. I find it gives me more freedom to work -- I've been given headaches in the past by players upset about me deviating from published material regarding monsters' appearances, behavior, etc. Though mostly it was power-gamers who gave me these headaches by memorizing the Monster Manuals and then getting cranky when I changed monsters' appearances so that they couldn't instantly call to mind the monsters' weaknesses. Now it's become force of habit.


Even then though, they could fit into the first category a more subtle way. You're would have to really play up on the Blindsight though. Besides, if their head is a Cleric to the god of slaughter, you've got your supernatural right there.


Grimlocks first really came to my attention a couple months ago when a friend decided to run a mid-level, anything goes one-shot. I rolled up a Grimlock Barbarian and started thinking about how I would roleplay such a character so it wouldn't just be "human with cosmetic differences." I finally came to the conclusion that if I were to play this character the way I felt it should be played, it would have made some of the other players uncomfortable in-character and out. So I rolled up a human Archivist but the Grimlock stayed in the back of my head.

EDIT: Gabarak, my Grimlock Barbarian, was going to be extremely touchy-feely in the physical sense, constantly running his bare hands and feet over everything, sniffing everything and everyone intensely (familiarizing himself with the other party member's scents, so he doesn't attack them accidentally) even gnawing on things to identify them. He also wouldn't be familiar with cultures outside his own, and would make comments and such drawing from his own experiences, not understanding that they weren't commonplace among the surface races -- he would swear, for instance, that if any of the party members fell in battle he would perform the honor of eating them.

[Harperfan7]

I'd like to see a grimlock as a main villain. No reason they can't be. They get a cool feat in the faerun underdark book, Axeshield I think.

Anyways, I think the main reason you never see grimlock villains is the same as why you never see goblin villains. They were pretty much made to be slave soldier/goons. They are basically mind flayer cannon fodder.

Do it though.

[Lert, A.]

EDIT: Gabarak, my Grimlock Barbarian, was going to be extremely touchy-feely in the physical sense, constantly running his bare hands and feet over everything, sniffing everything and everyone intensely (familiarizing himself with the other party member's scents, so he doesn't attack them accidentally) even gnawing on things to identify them. He also wouldn't be familiar with cultures outside his own, and would make comments and such drawing from his own experiences, not understanding that they weren't commonplace among the surface races -- he would swear, for instance, that if any of the party members fell in battle he would perform the honor of eating them.

When the group met my Grimlock Barbarian he had no concept of names. So he always spoke of himself by race.

"Me, Grimlock, badass!"

Quite entertaining, and not in the least tiresome.

[DamnedIrishman]

Huh, never realized that the Grimlocks are pretty much the Morlocks from H. G. Well's "The Time Machine". I kinda disagree with the above, that there are only really two categories for evil. Even then though, they could fit into the first category a more subtle way. You're would have to really play up on the Blindsight though. Besides, if their head is a Cleric to the god of slaughter, you've got your supernatural right there.

You've probably never seen them used as main villains because they lean more towards henchmen.

Emphasis mine. This works perfectly: in what way is the Brain Morlock not a perfect villain? Read the book (or just watch the film) [or at least, read/watch the end] and there's your inspiration.

[Brauron]

Emphasis mine. This works perfectly: in what way is the Brain Morlock not a perfect villain? Read the book (or just watch the film) [or at least, read/watch the end] and there's your inspiration.

Shame that in the book the Morlocks have no real organization :smallwink: (I reread it about once a year) That was the one thing the 2002 film did really well, I thought -- giving the Morlocks a caste system.

Grimlocks have INT 10, per the Monster Manual, so they're not ignorant schmucks for the most part, though not geniuses either. I guess it is, as harperfan pointed out, as it is with goblin villains. They're not exceptional enough to generally stand out on their own.

I'm in the middle of rolling up my cleric baddie though. He's gonna be a tough fight.