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Karellen
2005-12-18, 11:12 PM
So, I came up with this while looking at Drunken Master and thinking how neat it would be for there to be a Swashbuckler version of the Prestige Class. So I rolled the idea in my mind for a while, and here's what came out. It's still a rough version, but since he's basically defined by one single class ability, you can pretty much say if it's a good or bad idea based on it. The math gets pretty scary especially at the withdrawal symptom rules, but in a real game the GM would use them as a sort of guideline as to how to handle the character. I suppose this may be better as an NPC, but, well, if a player could handle it... ;)

The rest is pretty much stock stuff, with a bunch of abilities I thought were absolutely necessary for the build, as well as a couple of more brawlerish barroom fighting abilities that honestly I think Swashbucklers should have had in the first place. The idea is that you can take a couple of levels to get the neat extra flavour abilities to make a drink-happy Swashbuckler before getting to Dread Pirate or something, but those who like the concept can take the whole class to become vulnerable but larger than life swordsman who toy with death in a whole new way.

Well, without further ado, I give you Threepenny Fencer.

Requirements:
+5 BAB
6 points in Knowledge: Alcohol

Alignment - any non-Lawful
Feats - Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise

Class Features:

Hit dice: d10
BAB progression: 1/1
Saving Throws: Ref and Will Good, Fort Poor

1) Drink Like a Dying Man, Elegant Strike
2) Improvised Weapons Finesse
3) Acrobatic Charge, Evasion
4) Skillful Diversion, The Devil's Fortune
5) Uncanny Dodge
6) The Devil's Fortune / 2
7) Improvised Weapons Specialization
8) Improved Uncanny Dodge
9) The Devil's Fortune / 3
10) Sudden Clarity

Drink like a Dying Man

A Threepenny Fencer's biology has, from constant alcohol abuse, started to break down from within. However, from this euphoric state a Threepenny Fencer gleans a superior virtuousity of the blade. For each bottle of wine or equivalent amount of alcohol a Threepenny Fencer consumes, his dexterity increases by 2. This DEX bonus does not increase skill checks outside the Threepenny Fencer's class skills. The maximum amount of alcohol a Threepenny Fencer can drink for this effect is his class level.

For each level of alcohol, the character's CON decreases by 2. When the character's CON decreases beneath 10, he starts to lose 1 CON for each level of alcohol, and rather than suffering the HP loss usually incurred, his max HP decreases by 2d6 - current CON modifier, to the effect that the smaller CON the character has, the less HP he loses. The character's CON can drop below 1, and he continues to lose HP as described.

The max HP loss is effective immediately. In addition, on each day the Threepenny Fencer keeps drinking with his alcohol level at maximum, he loses d4 from his max HP. He can continue this until his max HP drops to or below zero, at which the character falls into coma.

Once the Threepenny Fencer quits drinking, he begins to recover his max HP with the speed of d6 per day. Every two days, he receives a point of CON, and every five days, his alcohol level is considered to decreased by one. However, every day he doesn't drink, his DEX drops by 2. The Threepenny Fencer can resume drinking at any point, in which case his alcohol level no longer rises, but he gets 2 DEX and loses d8 HP for bottle until his DEX reaches maximum. The DEX loss continues even after the original advantage is, and continues until the Threepenny Fencer's CON returns to 10 (if lower, original level), at which point DEX starts to return 4 points per day.

Implications of this are that after otherwise recovering, the Threepenny Fencer still maintains some of the Alcohol Levels, and therefore enjoys partial advantage from it as he can still reach superior DEX while enjoying near-normal HP. This power disappears over time as described.

Elegant Strike

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer adds 1 point of CHA bonus to his damage roll for each Threepenny Fencer level he has. This power is only usable against intelligent opponents.

Improvised Weapons Finesse

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer treats small items such as bottles as light weapons. The damage and damage type depend on the item.

Acrobatic Charge

As Swashbuckler.

Evasion

As Rogue.

Skillful Diversion

With Skillful Diversion, a Threepenny Fencer can, either as a part-round action or during a move action, pull down chairs, turn over desks, throw down chandeliers or commit other diversive actions without being provoking an Attack of Opportunity. It can be used to build obstacles and covers or divert opponents. Depending on the complexity of the diversion, the player may need to make a skill or ability check. If the diversion is specifically directed towards specific opponents - such as trying to drop a table on them - they must make a reflex saving throw or suffer being made flatfooted or a specific ill effect of the GM's decision.

The Devil's Fortune

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer can retry a throw that the player considers critical. The reroll is in effect even if it's worse than the original. As levels are gained, can be used up to three times a day.

Uncanny Dodge

As Rogue.

Improvised Weapons Specialization

A Threepenny Fencer can use an improvised weapon as though he were specialized with using it.

Sudden Clarity

With this ability, no matter how deep in the depths of alcoholic breakdown or ravaging withdrawal symptoms the Threepenny Fencer is, in a moment of great danger, the Threepenny Fencer can summon skill beyond him. He is treated as having the power of the highest Alcohol Level he held before his current downwards spiral started and loses all DEX penalties. The length of the effect is at the GM's dramatic discretion. This ability can be used only once for each adventure.

Sciurusaurus
2005-12-18, 11:35 PM
First off... I like the concept. Criticism should be read with that in mind. If I skip commenting some abilities, then interpret that as me thinking they are fine, needing no comments ;)



Requirements:
+5 BAB
6 points in Knowledge: Alcohol
Alignment - any non-Lawful
Feats - Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise

Looks good except for the Knowledge : Alcohol bit. That's a pretty restrictive skill with little actual uses, compared to the standard Knowledge skills.

Perhaps add something like this instead?:

Special : Must have been thrown out of bars for excessive drinking at least three times



Class Features:

Hit dice: d10
BAB progression: 1/1
Saving Throws: Ref and Will Good, Fort Poor


Class skills and skill points per level?



Drink like a Dying Man

A Threepenny Fencer's biology has, from constant alcohol abuse, started to break down from within. However, from this euphoric state a Threepenny Fencer gleans a superior virtuousity of the blade. For each bottle of wine or equivalent amount of alcohol a Threepenny Fencer consumes, his dexterity increases by 2. This DEX bonus does not increase skill checks outside the Threepenny Fencer's class skills. The maximum amount of alcohol a Threepenny Fencer can drink for this effect is his class level.

For each level of alcohol, the character's CON decreases by 2. When the character's CON decreases beneath 10, he starts to lose 1 CON for each level of alcohol, and rather than suffering the HP loss usually incurred, his max HP decreases by 2d6 - current CON modifier, to the effect that the smaller CON the character has, the less HP he loses. The character's CON can drop below 1, and he continues to lose HP as described.

The max HP loss is effective immediately. In addition, on each day the Threepenny Fencer keeps drinking with his alcohol level at maximum, he loses d4 from his max HP. He can continue this until his max HP drops to or below zero, at which the character falls into coma.

Once the Threepenny Fencer quits drinking, he begins to recover his max HP with the speed of d6 per day. Every two days, he receives a point of CON, and every five days, his alcohol level is considered to decreased by one. However, every day he doesn't drink, his DEX drops by 2. The Threepenny Fencer can resume drinking at any point, in which case his alcohol level no longer rises, but he gets 2 DEX and loses d8 HP for bottle until his DEX reaches maximum. The DEX loss continues even after the original advantage is, and continues until the Threepenny Fencer's CON returns to 10 (if lower, original level), at which point DEX starts to return 4 points per day.

Implications of this are that after otherwise recovering, the Threepenny Fencer still maintains some of the Alcohol Levels, and therefore enjoys partial advantage from it as he can still reach superior DEX while enjoying near-normal HP. This power disappears over time as described.

The fact that the Threepenny fencer can drink himself into death is intentional, right?

The rules also seems fairly complex, but that's a matter of taste. A bit too much math for me to check out right now, so I'm not in a position to comment on specific figures, but apart from what I perceive as unnecessary complexity, I like the idea.



Elegant Strike

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer adds 1 point of CHA bonus to his damage roll for each Threepenny Fencer level he has. This power is only usable against intelligent opponents.

Not sure if I understand the reasoning here. It looks so good that it hurts more if you understand what happens?



Improvised Weapons Finesse

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer treats small items such as bottles as light weapons. The damage and damage type depend on the item.

Cool ability. Though might be useful with more specific guidelines. Items weighing less than 1 lbs do 1d4 damage and items weighing up to 2 lbs do 1d6?



Skillful Diversion

With Skillful Diversion, a Threepenny Fencer can, either as a part-round action or during a move action, pull down chairs, turn over desks, throw down chandeliers or commit other diversive actions without being provoking an Attack of Opportunity. It can be used to build obstacles and covers or divert opponents. Depending on the complexity of the diversion, the player may need to make a skill or ability check. If the diversion is specifically directed towards specific opponents - such as trying to drop a table on them - they must make a reflex saving throw or suffer being made flatfooted or a specific ill effect of the GM's decision.

Again, cool ability, but maybe a bit undefined. And I'm not sure I like the part about making opponent(s) flatfooted.



The Devil's Fortune

With this ability, a Threepenny Fencer can retry a throw that the player considers critical. The reroll is in effect even if it's worse than the original. As levels are gained, can be used up to three times a day.

Maybe just say that the Threepenny Fencer gets to reroll one roll per day, with more rerolls later? After all, with limited uses, most players would not expend it on an unimportant roll.



Improvised Weapons Specialization

A Threepenny Fencer can use an improvised weapon as though he were specialized with using it.

Still limited to small items? Does this include the +1 from Weapon Focus (a prereq for normal specialization)? If not, why not simply state that the Fencer gets a +2 damage with improvised weapons.



Sudden Clarity

With this ability, no matter how deep in the depths of alcoholic breakdown or ravaging withdrawal symptoms the Threepenny Fencer is, in a moment of great danger, the Threepenny Fencer can summon skill beyond him. He is treated as having the power of the highest Alcohol Level he held before his current downwards spiral started and loses all DEX penalties. The length of the effect is at the GM's dramatic discretion. This ability can be used only once for each adventure.

Not sure if I understood this ability. Could you clarify by an example?

Karellen
2005-12-19, 12:34 AM
Thanks for the comments! I was getting a little lazy there (and tired, heh), so I managed to miss including the skill list. Realistically, the character would probably get 4 skill points per level and pretty much the same class skills that Swashbucklers have, with a couple of Dex skills like Escape Artist and Tumble that get crazy while the character has his DEX bonuses. A lot of the wording in the text is a bit poor too - I'll have to revise it to be more in tune.

I left a lot of the abilities a little vague, because I didn't really do enough research. Most Improvised Weapons would be around 1d4 or 1d6, but sometimes you might find an oil lamp, hit somebody with it and set him on fire. Red-hot pincers would be really mean too, so what do you know? In this case, I think giving general guidelines is probably better. It's the same thing with Skillful Diversion, which is one of the skills I thought Swashbucklers just should have, so I put it here. I just couldn't think of how to cover all the angles, because possible uses depend on what you have to work with - on open ground, it would be completely useless. As examples of use, you could down chairs to slow down opponents while you escape, or turn over a table on a couple of enemies ganging up on another PC. If they fail a check, they'd be disoriented or have to move out of the way, and the character you helped could get an Attacks of Opportunity. In a different situation, you could use it as a kind of Feint too and make somebody lose their Dex-based AC for a round. I deliberately meant it as a "DM decides" skills, mainly it's supposed to inspire creative thinking in battle and cause small advantages to you and minor nuisances to the enemy, but nothing fixed or very drastic.


Looks good except for the Knowledge : Alcohol bit. That's a pretty restrictive skill with little actual uses, compared to the standard Knowledge skills.

Perhaps add something like this instead?:

Special : Must have been thrown out of bars for excessive drinking at least three times

Sounds reasonable to me. Any class who took this would probably have some skill points to waste, but it's not really a reason to force one into wasting them. Having a suitably vague, but interesting special requirement would be more to the point, though.


The rules also seems fairly complex, but that's a matter of taste. A bit too much math for me to check out right now, so I'm not in a position to comment on specific figures, but apart from what I perceive as unnecessary complexity, I like the idea.

Complex? You could say that, yeah. =D I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make the numbers work. The results of the numbers are meant to be that a hypothetical level 20, CON 10 character who has 10 alcohol levels has about half of the HP he'd usually have, dropping him from around 100 to 50. A character with high CON would lose almost a third of their HP. In exchange, you get +20 to DEX, which gives you crazy AC and crazy to hit with weapon finesse, and fireballs do nothing. This, of course, so long as the character maintains it by drinking which makes his HP decrease even further, so eventually, he'll have even less HP and skirt even closer to death.

The point is that at some point, of course, you have to stop drinking or you'll die. When you do that, what will happen is that at high alcohol levels, you'll keep having less and less HP, and once you stop drinking, your DEX just keeps dropping until eventually drop down to near-zero DEX for a week or so, after which you'll eventually get back to normal again. But the whole point of the character is that he has these really bad periods, which last particularily long if the character doesn't just completely stop drinking, which probably wouldn't.

Sudden Clarity comes to play when the character is in really poor condition because of the DEX penalties from not drinking, and he's suddenly needed for something important. So if, say, the party is thrown into jail and they're going to be executed by the BBEG, the Threepenny Fencer, who is otherwise all but useless at the moment, could use Sudden Clarity, get back his near-40 DEX, use Escape Artist, knock out the jailers with a sharp stick. After he's done, the DM decrees that the ability fades, and he'd be back to being sickly and useless. It should be a pretty rare occurance and be based on roleplaying, but it could be used rather well as a dramatic effect and it prevents the class from being too over-the-top in its weaknesses.


Not sure if I understand the reasoning here. It looks so good that it hurts more if you understand what happens?

You got me there. Having Elegant Strike was purely a mechanical decision; I came up with this mostly because I think whoever took this class should have a reason to have a high CHA in favour of, say, high CON. Since it's mainly for Swashbucklers who get nothing from CHA, I thought it was necessary. And since Drink like a Dying Man already gives the character lots to AC and to hit, a CHA damage bonus seemed the sensible solution, but realistic, it ain't. It's only against intelligent beings because making it work perfectly against everything was too much. The idea is that it's a feint of sorts which enables you to cause more damage, but it's so sophisticated, you can't use it against unintelligent creatures.

Silivren
2005-12-19, 01:09 AM
The idea is that it's a feint of sorts which enables you to cause more damage, but it's so sophisticated, you can't use it against unintelligent creatures.

Yeah, I read it as the movement being so fluid/graceful that the attacker gets a little hypnotized/distracted watching it and doesn't defend themselves properly against the attack.

Dang it! Now you made me want to go rent a Jackie Chan movie! :)

bosssmiley
2005-12-19, 04:57 PM
A drunken swashbuckler prestige class! :D

Take this, the Drunken Master monk PrC, add a Booze-mage (Wild Mage variant) and a Cleric of Dionysus and I will have the perfect mad-cap swashbuckling adventure party.

Karellen for creating this you instantly ascend to my pantheon of household gaming gods! *kow-tow*

I cannot reasonably fault the character build until I've played one of these. My DM is *so* gonna hate my newest character idea ;D ;D ;D

Maryring
2005-12-20, 05:28 AM
Just a question. What if the threepenny fencer is subjected to Heal? Heal removes poisons and alcohol is a kind of poison.

bosssmiley
2005-12-20, 08:09 AM
Just a question. What if the threepenny fencer is subjected to Heal? Heal removes poisons and alcohol is a kind of poison.

Blasphemer! Alcohol - like any drug - is only a poison to those who don't use it correctly. ;D

As a knee-jerk houserule I'd say the poor devil instantly sobers up and his stats and statuses revert to normal when exposed to restoration or heal.

SpiderBrigade
2005-12-20, 02:43 PM
As a knee-jerk houserule I'd say the poor devil instantly sobers up and his stats and statuses revert to normal when exposed to restoration or heal.
Hmm, from a logical perspective that makes sense, and I think most players/DMs would agree...however: part of the flavor of this class is the fact that he's totally gimped for long periods of time as he recovers from drinking himself nearly to death. Make this kind of workaround available, and players will use/abuse it.

Karellen
2005-12-20, 09:29 PM
Arguably, the Threepenny Fencer should be mostly outside the bounds of magical healing. At least, it shouldn't be used as a quick method to bypass the Threepenny Fencer's character flaws; that would be pointless. If anything, they could be used as an uncertain way to momentarily either raise his HP or remove a part of his DEX penalties. I see it as a kind of "GM decides" thing - if the party really needs him and the storyline calls for it, then magical healing could help, but it should be unreliable, 'cause the Threepenny Fencer is never reliable.

'Course, Threepenny Fencer's skills aren't just that he's drunk, but rather, by drinking himself to the point of near-death, he gains some kind of unnatural zen-like insight to swordfighting that enables him to perform incredible feats. The way I set the math up, a Threepenny Fencer would retain about half of his ability after going through his downward spiral, and it would take weeks before his skills completely desert him. That's how he is - He goes through a period of hard drinking, is forced by his friends to sobers up, spends a week or two in bed feeling like he's dying, and then he returns as a great swordsman. But if he stays sober, no matter what he does, slowly but surely he loses the magic and ultimately, he gives into drinking again.

The way I imagine it, getting the character back to shape in faster time should be possible, but it couldn't be done in any easy, well-known way, but rather, would take a lot of work virtually every time. Imagine that the party needs to have someone fight with the city's best Duelist in a week's time, and the Threepenny Fencer is the one with the skills to do it, only he's sloshed and can barely lift a sword. So naturally, the idea would be for the GM to arrange a mini-quest that will put him back into business. The party's warrior will fight practice battles with him until he pukes blood, while the mage looks for some rare medicine that can help him snap out of it, and the hot female cleric gives him back rubs... and so on. On the day of the duel he feels a little shaky, but when he goes to the ring, and just maybe he's got the magic again.

Arguably, the math doesn't matter so much, so long as the spirit of his problem remains. So long as he remembers that, the GM can use any way he wants to improvize the way the Threepenny Fencer falls and rises. He's Kikuchiyo and Jack Sparrow. He's Doc Holliday. He's Rocky Balboa. And he's Dude, the Borachón. You never know for sure if he's awesome or just a drunk, whether he has a plan or he's just making it up as he goes. At his sharpest he looks like he has one leg in the grave, but he never misses. When you need him the most he's at his worst, but he can get back up again... with help. And just when he looks like he's ready to give up, something clicks together, and he has the magic again. Pretentious drama? Yes, but damn if it isn't fun. ;D

SpiderBrigade
2005-12-21, 01:38 AM
What a great description, Karellen. It also makes me think that there's a place for an arcane variant on this class, that gets CHA instead of DEX bonuses. It'd be whatever class John Constantine is.

Hzurr
2005-12-21, 01:53 AM
The one problem that I have with this, is that as the Threepenny Fencer drinks, he gets more dexterity?

I have never been a drinker, however, after watching many amusing scenarios with a drunk roommate, I assure you that drinking never, ever improves your dex. Ever. Then doubling that with a Con penalty? Again, slightly off, because the more alcohol a person has in him/her, the less they "feel" pain.

*note: a side leson to everyone. This is why you don't fight with drunk people, because they'll keep going long after a normal person would fall, simply because they don't feel pain. end note*

Yeah, I realize that this is a bit nit-picky, and aside from that, I really like the class (I'd definately have fun times playing something like this), but if I was a DM, things like this would make me scratch my head a bit.

Maryring
2005-12-22, 07:52 AM
Alcohol destroys your internal organs when you've gotten yourself drunk. Hence the Con drain.

Hermes
2005-12-22, 09:05 PM
Alcohol destroys your internal organs when you've gotten yourself drunk. Hence the Con drain.

If I read Karellen's original post correctly, the CON penalties actually are a compensation for the awesome armor class that the Threepenny Fencer gets from his DEX bonuses from drinking. Of course, from a realistic and practical standpoint, I can see where you're coming from Maryring.

Personally, I love this class. I think that its a great idea. Of course, maybe it just appleals to the boozer within me... I dunno. But I say great work Karellen!

The_Werebear
2005-12-22, 11:19 PM
What a great description, Karellen. It also makes me think that there's a place for an arcane variant on this class, that gets CHA instead of DEX bonuses. It'd be whatever class John Constantine is.


Except he gets his powers from smoking 15 packs of cigarettes a day.

Back on topic, I love this class.

If I was playing one, I would use broken bottles exclusively.

Dr._Weird
2005-12-23, 12:07 AM
Karellen said, he the Threepenny Fencer reaches sort of a zen-like state when it comes to swordfighting when he drinks so much. Hence the Dex. bonus