PDA

View Full Version : [3.5]Tenser's Floating Disc



NPCMook
2009-07-06, 02:26 AM
My friend and I were thinking of wierd concepts, and he came up with the idea of a Crippled Wizard who uses Tenser's Floating Disc as something of a Wheel Chair...

I came up with the idea of applying the Living Spell Template to the Disc, would this technically be possible?

arguskos
2009-07-06, 02:29 AM
...kinda. A Living Tenser's Disk would create a Tenser's Floating Disk whenever it hit someone with it's slam attack... which would be hilarious, but really really strange.

Quote the template:

The template can be applied to any spell that creates an area or effect
Seems like it can be done. but it'd be strange.

Zaq
2009-07-06, 02:44 AM
"Huh, what's that, some kind of ooze?'

"Yeah, looks like a living spell. We better take it out."

{SEVERAL ROUNDS LATER}

"Oh gods! The disks! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE! They want to carry everything! EVERYTHING! AAAAAAAAH!"

TSED
2009-07-06, 02:50 AM
"Huh, what's that, some kind of ooze?'

"Yeah, looks like a living spell. We better take it out."

{SEVERAL ROUNDS LATER}

"Oh gods! The disks! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE! They want to carry everything! EVERYTHING! AAAAAAAAH!"

Just get two spells in on your Living Spell.

Tensor's Disk aaaand... what? Fascinate? Teleportation?


...

BALEFUL POLYMORPH. THAT TURNS YOU INTO TENSOR'S DISKS.

Zaq
2009-07-06, 02:53 AM
I dunno. I kind of think it's better when there's no other effect, just THE DISKS.

Though if I had to choose, I'd say Otto's Irresistible Dance would be the way to go.

"THE DISKS COMMAND ME TO GET DOWN AND FUNKY!"

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-06, 04:29 AM
Tenser's Floating Disk does not move independently of the caster. It follows the caster. While I don't see why a wizard could not sit on his own disk, it wouldn't go anywhere with him on it.

There is an improved version, however. I'm not sure if it is the original source, but the Spell Compendium has Floating Disk, Greater on page 96 which specifically allows the caster to move it around as a standard action by concentrating on it. It is rather slow: 20' per round. Note that since it is a standard action to make it move 20' in one round, you cannot even double move with this disk. The upside is that it can be used to grant something of a lesser 'flight' with a duration of 1 hour/level.

I realize that this is not all directly related, but I don't think that the living spell template is the way to go, which is why I mention this superior spell. You may be better off creating your own version rather than trying to make this template do something it wasn't designed to do.

Remember that wizards can perform spell research. Making a modified disk that carriers the wizard and his possessions and allows the wizard to fly with perfect maneuverabilty at a speed of 20' and a duration of 1 hour per caster level seems simple enough. This would essentially become a lesser overland flight.

To make a long answer short: Technically, I believe application of the template would be possible. You'd end up with this, though (Assuming a CL of 1):


Living Floating Disk
Medium Ooze
{table]Hit Dice:|1d10 (5hp)
Speed:|20'
Armor Class:|11 (+1 deflection)
Attacks:|+0 slam 1d4
SA:|Spell effect, engulf
SQ:|Ooze traits, DR 10/Magic, SR 11
Saves:|Fort 1, Ref 0, Will 0
Abilities:|Str 11, Dex 8, Con 11, Int --, Wis 8, Cha 11
CR:|1
Alignment:|Neutral[/table]

Spell Effect (Su):
A creature hit by a Living Floating Disk is accompanied by a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows them and carries loads. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight. (If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons.) The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany the character at a rate of no more than its normal speed each round. It maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and the character. The disk winks out of existence after 1 hour. The disk also winks out if the character move beyond 25' away from it or tries to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it.

Engulf (Ex):
A Living Floating Disk can flow around creatures that fit within its space as a standard action. It merely has to move over the opponent(s). Opponents may make attacks of opportunity but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 11) or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or to the side into a square of their choice. Engulfed creatures suffer the full normal effect of the spell each round on the Living DLoating
Disk's turn and are considered grappled and trapped within its body.

Saves:
+1 resistance bonus on all saves (already calculated)


The living spell template creates oozes. I don't think this is what you were aiming for.

obnoxious
sig

EleventhHour
2009-07-06, 04:32 AM
Just get two spells in on your Living Spell.

Tensor's Disk aaaand... what? Fascinate? Teleportation?


...

BALEFUL POLYMORPH. THAT TURNS YOU INTO TENSOR'S DISKS.

...is this the fabled Discworld? :smallbiggrin:

Vaynor
2009-07-06, 05:06 AM
Make a hinge with two large edges (the size of the disk). Use sovereign glue to put a portable hole on the inside of the hinge. Summon a floating disk, place it on top. Summon another, place it on top (upside down). Cast invisibility on the hinge part. Get inside the portable hole. You now have a moving invisible fortress.

TSED
2009-07-06, 05:10 AM
Make a hinge with two large edges (the size of the disk). Use sovereign glue to put a portable hole on the inside of the hinge. Summon a floating disk, place it on top. Summon another, place it on top (upside down). Cast invisibility on the hinge part. Get inside the portable hole. You now have a moving invisible fortress.

So that's how Mario does it...

NPCMook
2009-07-06, 05:16 AM
We've now come to a debate whether you would die first or just technically suffocate indefinately if you were trapped inside a Living Spell of Mass Cure Serious Wounds...

Or maybe having a nice large pool room in a Church of Pelor where they keep a pool of Mass Cure Serious Wounds for hurt people to Bathe in...

Living Spell makes for some interesting ideas...

herrhauptmann
2009-07-06, 08:20 AM
Don't the drow have a magic item like this already? Salvatore places them prominently in his books that deal with underdark drow. As well as War of the Spiderqueen.

What specifically does 'Living spell' do?

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-06, 08:26 AM
We've now come to a debate whether you would die first or just technically suffocate indefinately if you were trapped inside a Living Spell of Mass Cure Serious Wounds...

Or maybe having a nice large pool room in a Church of Pelor where they keep a pool of Mass Cure Serious Wounds for hurt people to Bathe in...

Living Spell makes for some interesting ideas...

That seems kind of unpleasant. I'd stick with cure light wounds traps.


Don't the drow have a magic item like this already? Salvatore places them prominently in his books that deal with underdark drow. As well as War of the Spiderqueen.

What specifically does 'Living spell' do?

I posted an example above. It's from the Eberron Campaign setting and was reprinted in Monster Manual III. Essentially, it creates an ooze with some statistics based on the caster level and spell level of the original spell (or spells). If that ooze succeeds at its slam attack, whatever it hits suffers the effects of the spell. It can also engulf a creature simply by moving over it. Each round a creature is engulfed, that creature suffers the effects of the spell. The template is limited to spells that have an area or an effect, I believe.

obnoxious
sig

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-06, 10:38 AM
That seems kind of unpleasant. I'd stick with cure light wounds traps.



I posted an example above. It's from the Eberron Campaign setting and was reprinted in Monster Manual III. Essentially, it creates an ooze with some statistics based on the caster level and spell level of the original spell (or spells). If that ooze succeeds at its slam attack, whatever it hits suffers the effects of the spell. It can also engulf a creature simply by moving over it. Each round a creature is engulfed, that creature suffers the effects of the spell. The template is limited to spells that have an area or an effect, I believe.

obnoxious
sig

Fact: The MM3 was printed before the ECS, so the MM3 version is the oldest one.

bosssmiley
2009-07-06, 10:50 AM
Apropos of nothing: TFG + awaken + magic mouth = small annoying hover child.

"Whatcha doing? Where we going? I'm tired! Why you always tell me to be quiet? What's that? Are we there yet?"

Callista
2009-07-06, 11:05 AM
What about Permanence?

Fitz10019
2009-07-06, 11:13 AM
The caster does not suffer the weight of anything on the disc, so it's kind of like a weight-negating, frictionless dolly (up to it's weight limit). Maybe the caster, sitting on his own disc, can have a string attached to his familiar, a bird (for the speed), and the bird can effortlessly tow the wizard. The slower possiblity, if the familiar is not a bird, is for the wizard to cast Mage Hand to push the disc.

Callista
2009-07-06, 11:18 AM
A small flying animated object could also pull the disk. Again, Permanence; or you could buy one. I would use that option just for the cool factor.

I would highly suggest you also get a non-magical wheelchair or cart of some sort. If I were the DM, you can bet I would throw Antimagic or Dispels around sooner or later, and you don't want to be without a means of getting around if that happens. Getting hauled around piggyback by the party half-orc is just not dignified. You'll have to get it made specially to actually get around on relatively rough terrain; chances are even in a city big enough to have a shop that sells them specifically, you are not going to find one suited for an adventurer.

kemmotar
2009-07-06, 11:37 AM
Or you could just build a wheelchair, cast perma overland flight or fly if you've got the money/xp, awaken it...

Don't confine yourself just to tenser's floating disk when you can use alternatives...

Coidzor
2009-07-06, 11:38 AM
I wonder how many feats that flaw is worth...

rampaging-poet
2009-07-06, 02:29 PM
Tenser's Floating Disk does not move independently of the caster. It follows the caster. While I don't see why a wizard could not sit on his own disk, it wouldn't go anywhere with him on it.


Actually, I think it can go places without him moving.


If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you.

Emphasis mine. This would imply that there is, in fact, a way to tell the disk to move somewhere other than five feet behind you. If you can direct the disk, you can sit on top and have it carry you around. Given that it takes a standard action to concentrate on a spell or change the target of a Mordenkainen's/Mage's Sword spell, I would allow a wizard to direct his Floating Disc with a standard action.
The only problem with this is there is no clear definition of what happens on a round in which it doesn't receive direction from the wizard. I see two interpretations: Either it follows any order given until that order is completed, or on any round it is not specifically directed it attempts to move five feet behind the wizard. The first allows for a slightly more mobile wizard ("Follow that guy", "Stay at least ten feet from the goblins") and is also more in line with the actions of Mordenkainen's/Mage's Sword, but both could be argued for. Also, the disc might have some trouble with staying five feet behind a wizard sitting on it, possibly causing it to shoot out in some random direction in attempt to maintain a constant five-foot interval.

Ratflail
2009-07-06, 02:53 PM
Just get two spells in on your Living Spell.

Tensor's Disk aaaand... what? Fascinate? Teleportation?


...

BALEFUL POLYMORPH. THAT TURNS YOU INTO TENSOR'S DISKS.
The obvious answer would be Prestidigation.

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-06, 06:54 PM
This would imply that there is, in fact, a way to tell the disk to move somewhere other than five feet behind you. If you can direct the disk, you can sit on top and have it carry you around. Given that it takes a standard action to concentrate on a spell or change the target of a Mordenkainen's/Mage's Sword spell, I would allow a wizard to direct his Floating Disc with a standard action.
The only problem with this is there is no clear definition of what happens on a round in which it doesn't receive direction from the wizard. I see two interpretations: Either it follows any order given until that order is completed, or on any round it is not specifically directed it attempts to move five feet behind the wizard. The first allows for a slightly more mobile wizard ("Follow that guy", "Stay at least ten feet from the goblins") and is also more in line with the actions of Mordenkainen's/Mage's Sword, but both could be argued for. Also, the disc might have some trouble with staying five feet behind a wizard sitting on it, possibly causing it to shoot out in some random direction in attempt to maintain a constant five-foot interval.

I disagree with your interpretation. I think you are taking 'otherwise directed' out of context.


It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed [to maintain a constant interval of a differing amount], it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you.

Bracketed text obviously mine.

The disk floats at a distance from the wizard determined by the wizard and follows him at a rate of no more than his normal speed (accompanying him). This is what it does. It seems pretty clear that this is what it does when the wizard isn't directing it. The spell makes no mention of the disk's ability to move when the wizard is not moving. I believe that if the wizard directs the disk to follow him at a distance of 10 feet, it will remain at 5 feet until he moves further away and then will maintain a constant distance of 10 feet behind him.

Basically, the disk mindlessly follows the wizard and will delay doing so as long as the wizard tells him to, but it won't move in any way except to follow him. If the wizard is sitting on it, the disk would be quite satisfied as it would be as close to the wizard as it could get.

A character could certainly write a scroll and have the another character cast it, and then ride on the other character's disk, but having a hovering platform a character can ride and direct for an hour per level seems out of line for a level one spell.

I find this reinforced by the fact that the greater version of floating disk specifically mentions its ability to be ridden and directed by the wizard as well as a speed independent of the wizard's.

obnoxious
sig

Callista
2009-07-06, 09:00 PM
I wonder how many feats that flaw is worth...One, no more--if that. Wizards have enough magical ways to get around that they practically don't need their legs anyway.

Darrin
2009-07-06, 10:51 PM
I find this reinforced by the fact that the greater version of floating disk specifically mentions its ability to be ridden and directed by the wizard as well as a speed independent of the wizard's.


The whole "can I ride the disk" thing is a source of debate that is not easily resolved via RAW. I believe the 2nd edition version of Tenser's Disk was not ridable, but we're not sure if the 3.x author intended it that way. And whoever wrote the greater version may have assumed the original version was not ridable when in fact it was intended to be. It boils down to DM's call. On one hand, it has a short range and the 3' surface limitation isn't exactly broken or overpowered. On the other hand, it's obviously better than some other higher level spells (I'm looking at you, levitate). If your DM rules against you, however, there may be a work-around:

Use imbue/share spells, wand + UMD, or buy a Talisman of the Disk (MIC p. 188, 500 GP) so that your familiar can cast the disk. The familiar can't ride it, but you can, and the familiar can either command the disk to go wherever you want (saving you an action to direct it), or just float alongside wherever it goes. If your familiar has a good flight speed... well, so long as it stays within 3' of the ground, you can both avoid a lot of nasty terrain.

rampaging-poet
2009-07-07, 10:17 PM
...but having a hovering platform a character can ride and direct for an hour per level seems out of line for a level one spell.

I don't really think that allowing the wizard to ride his disk would be out of line for a first level spell. It's movement speed is thirty feet and it cannot make a double move, so it's actually slower than simply walking. Sure, you can float over caltrops, pressure plates, and the like, but that's about it. That doesn't seem too unbalancing to me, especially if it takes a standard action to re-direct the disk and even more so if you had to use your standard action to do so every round you wish to move.


I believe the 2nd edition version of Tenser's Disk was not ridable, but we're not sure if the 3.x author intended it that way.

I just cracked open my dad's old Second Edition Player's Handbook. It's equally vague. There's certainly room to argue in both directions in both editions.

PrismaticPIA
2009-07-07, 10:54 PM
Tensor's Floating Tank:

Permanency Disc. Build a study wooden platform extending 2-3 feet from the edge of the Tensor's Disk. Be sure to encapsulate the disc inside the platform. Apply sovereign glue. Next, build a 'shack' (wood, stone, iron, Adamantine, etc.) on the platform. Be sure to include arrow slits (and a way to enter the shack). You now have a tank.

To move the tank, sit yourself on the far end on the platform in the direction you want to go.

Tank blocks line of effect for your foes, stone/metal have hardness, and you can shoot/cast spells with immunity. Works in an Anti-magic field due to the 'cardboard box' theory.

Alejandro
2009-07-07, 10:54 PM
What about access issues? Is the campaign world ADA (Adventurers with Disabilities Act) compliant? Are tavern doorways wide enough for the floating disc to fit through? Do dungeons have elevators, or ramps?

Ravens_cry
2009-07-07, 11:05 PM
Tank blocks line of effect for your foes, stone/metal have hardness, and you can shoot/cast spells with immunity. Works in an Anti-magic field due to the 'cardboard box' theory.
Bonus points if it looks like this (http://innovationnation.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/da-vinci-invention-tank1.jpg)
What exactly is the 'cardboard box' theory?

rampaging-poet
2009-07-08, 12:05 AM
I believe the "cardboard box" theory is the idea that anything blocking line of effect (such as a cardboard box) will block an anti-magic field. By RAW, this is correct. By the same reasoning, it is quite difficult to actually fight from the inside of one's cardboard box.

Lycanthromancer
2009-07-08, 12:24 AM
Also a useful thing to know when using shrink item when making dome- or cone-shaped headware. :smalltongue: