D&D 3.5 - Dual wield + rapid shot stacking?

[toddex]

If you were to specialize in throwing weapons, would dual wield and rapid shot stack for throwing attacks in a round?

[AslanCross]

Yes, they would. The Master Thrower's Palm Throw plus those two can generate some insane spam attacks.

[toddex]

Yes, they would. The Master Thrower's Palm Throw plus those two can generate some insane spam attacks.

Or a brutal throwing javelin beast ala diablo 2 barbarian style? Hehehehe

[Yuki Akuma]

It would cost you three feats for two extra attacks per round. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

(Alternatively, be a monk, buy a bunch of sais, and Two Weapon Fighting Rapid Shot Flurry of Blows with them. You might even get lucky and hit with one of your four -6 attack penalty attacks!)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

TWF grants you an additional attack with your offhand, more if you take Improved or Greater. Rapid Shot grants one additional ranged attack, regardless of whether or not you're using TWF, but note that it would still only be one extra attack and not one extra attack with each hand.

For a TWF ranged attacker, I think that a (Nonpsionic) Thri-Kreen (2 HD, +1 LA) Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), focusing on Wisdom with Zen Archery and (Improved, Greater) Multiweapon Fighting would be the strongest choice damage-wise. That can even get a decent benefit from VoP, though a spellcaster in the party would need to cast Fly on it sometimes, or maybe take Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) for a Dire Eagle companion (RoS) that you can use as a mount.

I once threw a Dragonkin (Draconomicon) Fighter 4 focused on javelin throwing at a party who didn't have any decent ranged attacks or spellcasting, or even tanglefoot bags or a net. Rather than seeing the error in their choice of characters, they got mad at me for throwing a monster at them that they couldn't defeat by standing still and full attacking. Luckily a few of them are now interested in playing more diverse characters.

[ericgrau]

If you were to specialize in throwing weapons, would dual wield and rapid shot stack for throwing attacks in a round?

FWIW the FAQ also confirms that this is okay. But you do face a -4 penalty to all attacks. At lower levels with full BAB that's still worth it, but once you have 4+ attacks getting a -4 penalty to every single one isn't worth it against high AC opponents. Not to mention that your javelins are weaker since you only have so much money to spend on so many. In that case you'd hit more with 1 or 2 less attacks and a higher AB.

BF's tactic is very nice at level 4 though. Though I hope it was made to be an elite opponent if he had 4 fighter levels. That's not a random soldier.

[Signmaker]

Things get interesting when you're an invisible thri-keen rogue with the Multiweapon-Fighting tree, alchemical splash weapons, and something along the lines of Luck Devotion.

Brownie points if you can tuck in Power Throw.

That is to say, if you're interested in thrown weapon spam, it's generally a good idea to have a 'twist' to them, which generally comes in the form of splash spam (touch attacks) or Master Thrower tricks, to fix the issue of the constant -4.

[Gnaeus]

For a TWF ranged attacker, I think that a (Nonpsionic) Thri-Kreen (2 HD, +1 LA) Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), focusing on Wisdom with Zen Archery and (Improved, Greater) Multiweapon Fighting would be the strongest choice damage-wise. That can even get a decent benefit from VoP, though a spellcaster in the party would need to cast Fly on it sometimes, or maybe take Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) for a Dire Eagle companion (RoS) that you can use as a mount.

Thri Kreen isn't bad, but I think damage wise you are better replacing most of those classes with things that give sneak attack, like rogue3/Swashbuckler 15 with daring outlaw. If you are throwing a dozen items per turn, they should be alchemists fire or flasks of acid with +9d6 sneak damage per attack. VoP still isn't worth it.

[Keld Denar]

A Bard/Warblade with Dragonfire Inspiration can do fair bit of damage with TWFing and Rapid Shot. Be a Halfling for the +3 bonus to ranged attacks over a human and you offset most of the penalty to hit from the tactic. Your base weapon damage doesn't matter, since most of your damage comes from your 6-10d6 elemental damage from DFI. Its the whole premise of my Flick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140212&postcount=11) build.

[Signmaker]

A Bard/Warblade with Dragonfire Inspiration can do fair bit of damage with TWFing and Rapid Shot. Be a Halfling for the +3 bonus to ranged attacks over a human and you offset most of the penalty to hit from the tactic. Your base weapon damage doesn't matter, since most of your damage comes from your 6-10d6 elemental damage from DFI. Its the whole premise of my Flick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140212&postcount=11) build.

It's pretty amazing how many threads in the last week have given you the pretext to flaunt Flick. :smallsmile:

But yeah, Keld's build is a perfect example.

[Keld Denar]

Its what the people want!

Its not a particularly amazing build, but it is a great example of a build that utilizes a high number of attacks while maintaining usefulness, as opposed to the standard POWER ATTACK MOAR! style builds. It has a certain finesse to it, and is a GREAT team player. May make the DM cry though, since his monsters won't have nearly enough HP when everyone at the table is tossing around an extra 6d6 or more per attack at level 10, but thats a fault of DFI, not Flick.

[Darrin]

FWIW the FAQ also confirms that this is okay. But you do face a -4 penalty to all attacks. At lower levels with full BAB that's still worth it, but once you have 4+ attacks getting a -4 penalty to every single one isn't worth it against high AC opponents.


Improved Rapid Shot (CompWar) eliminates the -2 penalty from Rapid Shot. Bloodclaw Master (ToB) can get rid of the -2 penalty from TWF, if you're using the correct weapon (daggers work well). Add another two levels of Bloodstorm Blade, and you can full attack TWF + rapid shot + power attack with greataxes.



Not to mention that your javelins are weaker since you only have so much money to spend on so many. In that case you'd hit more with 1 or 2 less attacks and a higher AB.


Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC p. 194, 7000 GP). I was noodling around with a Mystic Ranger/Stormlord build a few weeks ago, and it just wasn't quite coming together. Still, an infinite number of +3 thundering shocking burst force javelins is nothing to sneeze at.

[ericgrau]

I should've known that there's always a char op way to remove every downside :smalltongue:.