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SigaVaHeil
2005-12-13, 11:04 AM
Some ideas for feats. Please constructively critique.

Improved Dire Charge [Epic, Fighter]
You can make a full attack as part of a charge at any time.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +23, Dire Charge
Benefit: The character can make a full attack as part of a charge.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: If it's too powerful, Superior Initiative (one of the worst epic feats) could be added as a prerequisite to tone things down. Personally, I think being required to take 3 feats, 2 of which are epic, to be able to do this isn't too unreasonable, especially considering the restrictions on when someone can charge, plus it can't be taken till level 25 at the earliest. The BAB restriction is obviously flexible, but I feel there should be some minimum so that a person couldn't just grab both Dire Charge and Improved Dire Charge immediately at 21st level.

Greater Critical [Epic, Fighter]
Choose one type of a weapon, such as a longsword or greataxe. With that weapon, you are capable of doing massive amounts of damage on a succesful critical hit.
Prerequisites: Improved Critical with weapon to be chosen, Power Critical with weapon to be chosen (Complete Warrior), Weapon Focus with weapon to be chosen
Benefit: Choose a weapon. The crit multiplier of that weapon is increased by n-1, where n is the base crit multiplier of the weapon. This feat does not stack with similar effects. Example: A longsword's multiplier is x2. With this feat it increases to x3.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different armor type for which you have learned Improved Critical.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: Quite frankly, the person who designed Overwhelming Critical was a MORON. 1) No epic character gives two coppers about getting an extra d6 on the rare occasions when they score a critical... by the time they're epic it's the BONUSES that matter... this is specifically discussed in the "Behind the Curtains" sections where it talks about how Critical Hits are designed. 2) Why the heck are melee people the only ones who should get better critical hits? With the rediculous strength requirements and the feats only applying to melee attacks, it leaves bow users high and dry... and personally I think an arrow through the eye should hurt. I don't want to just replace the effects of Overwhelming Critical so I designed this more in line with the similar feats included in its prerequisites... if some poor soul out there actually wants Overwhelming Critical, let him have it. As far as balance goes, this is an epic feat after all, and it statistically (I believe) wouldn't change the average damage of a weapon any more than Improved Critical would if it was a stand alone feat. Personally, I like giving warriors incentive to take feats that compliment each other rather than forcing them to pick and choose between abilities to use. Plus, I think this allows for warriors to feel truly EPIC when they score a crit with an Axe or Scythe, doing x5 or x7 damage respectively.

Greater Overrun [General, Fighter]
You are capable of moving through opponents quickly and effeciently.
Prerequisites: Improved Overrun
Benefit: You can attempt an overrun as a free action taken during your move. There is no limit to the Overrun attempts you can make in a round.
Normal: You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your move.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: The rules on Overrun are a bit tricky. The way I read them, you can only perform one Overrun during your turn (since it's a standard action), meaning you can only push through one person. With this feat, one could essentially keep going through as many opponents as they can succeed in their strength checks against, and they would still have a standard action remaining. Side note - The quick description of Improved Overrun differs from the written description... the quick one says you don't incur attacks of opportunity, the written one makes no mention of this, so I personally go with the ruling that you do still take attacks of opportunity. This fact helps to balance out being able to run through multiple people since you're provoking attacks from all of them.

Overrunning Charge [Epic, Fighter]
Not even enemies can obstruct your charge.
Prerequisites: Greater Overrun
Benefit: You can make an Overrun attempt as part of a charge. If you succesfully overrun an opponent, that opponent does not count as obstructing your path for purposes of the charge.
Normal: You cannot attempt an Overrun as part of a charge. Any opponents between you and the target of your charge prevent you from charging.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: Obviously you see a theme by now, one I came to enjoy in a campaign I recently played in: Charge charge charge! I was considering working minimum Tumble or Balance into the prerequisites, but I'm not certain they're entirely appropriate... honestly I think Balance would be more appropriate than Tumble. Sure, Tumble is designed for moving through other people's squares, but charging is all about a *lack* of finesse, whereas balance might be appropriate simply for being able to keep your feet while shoving through someone at full tilt.

Destructive Overrun [Epic, Fighter]
Even interlying objects do not prevent your charging.
Prerequisites: Greater Overrun, Strength 25
Benefit: You can make an Overrun attempt versus inanimate objects. Use the objects break DC for its opposing Strength check; if you succeed, you destroy the object rather than knocking it down.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: Continues with the above theme, but honestly I picture this being more what an Adamantine Golem would do... just barreling through walls like they were nothing on the way to its target. In combination with Overrunning Charge and Fleet of Foot, this would allow a character to charge anywhere his Strength is strong enough to take him. It may seem overpowered, especially given Improved Dire Charge up above, but keep in mind that this is 8 feats (not counting Power Attack which is a great feat anyway), most of them otherwise useless and 4 of them Epic, devoted to one goal... a goal that STILL can't be done all the time because there is still a minimum distance one has to travel as part of a Charge, and there are most certainly going to be situations where a character won't be able to push through the stuff in the way.

I'm rather fond of Rich Burlew's OGL content, particularly the fighter feats, but I wanted to comment on some of them that I feel should be changed and ask your opinions on it. Take these notes for what they're worth, just the opinion of a rules monkey. The originals can be found at http://www.giantitp.com/Func0004.html

Armor Focus [General, Fighter]
Choose any specific type of armor, such as chain mail or full plate armor. You are more adept at moving when wearing that armor.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected armor.
Benefit: When wearing the selected armor type, the armor check penalty applied to your skills is reduced by 1. This reduction stacks with that granted by masterwork armor, but cannot reduce the total armor check penalty to less than 0. The maximum Dexterity bonus for that armor increases by 1 if the armor is medium or heavy armor. These benefits apply both to standard armor and to armors made of special materials, such as mithral or adamantine.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different armor type.

Commentary: Why should medium and heavy armors be the only ones to benefit from this feat? Since light armor users rely on Dexterity even more for their armor class, they too should be able to benefit from this. What's more, this restriction is also inconsistent with the Epic version of the feat... in the Epic version the Maximum Dexterity bonus for Light Armor goes from unmodified to non-existant (more about the Epic version discussed later). As such I think a better version would be:

Benefit: When wearing the selected armor type, the armor check penalty applied to your skills is reduced by 1. This reduction stacks with that granted by masterwork armor, but cannot reduce the total armor check penalty to less than 0. The maximum Dexterity bonus for that armor increases by 1. These benefits apply both to standard armor and to armors made of special materials, such as mithral or adamantine.

I feel the same way for the Greater version, which I think should read:

Greater Armor Focus [General, Fighter]
Choose any specific type of armor, such as chain mail or full plate armor, for which you have learned the Armor Focus feat. You excel at moving while wearing that armor.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected armor, Armor Focus with selected armor.
Benefit: When wearing the selected armor type, the armor check penalty applied to your skills is reduced by 1. This reduction stacks with that granted by masterwork armor and that granted by Armor Focus, but cannot reduce the total armor check penalty to less than 0. The maximum Dexterity bonus for that armor increases by 1. These benefits apply both to standard armor and to armors made of special materials, such as mithral or adamantine.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different armor type for which you have learned Armor Focus.

I think the Epic version of these two feats should actually be dummed down from its initial state:

Epic Armor Focus [Epic, Fighter]
Choose any specific type of armor, such as chain mail or full plate armor, for which you have learned the Greater Armor Focus feat. You are the undisputed master at moving while wearing that armor.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected armor, Armor Focus with selected armor, Greater Armor Focus with selected armor.
Benefit: When wearing the selected armor type, you suffer no armor check penalties to any skill. Your Dexterity bonus to your Armor Class is not limited by the armor at all; you may ignore the maximum Dexterity modifier for that armor. These benefits apply both to standard armor and to armors made of special materials, such as mithral or adamantine.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different armor type for which you have learned Greater Armor Focus.

Commentary: This is too good, and it is inconsistent with other Epic [equipment] Focus feats. I feel it is too good because there is a Salient Divine ability (Divine Armor Mastery) thats sole effect is to let the deity ignore the maximum Dexterity of light and medium armor. Don't get me wrong, I think Epic feats should be powerful, but this one could have an effect greater than one of very few powers that Gods get to choose from... granted, it would only apply to one form of armor, but it could potentially be heavy armor which is better than even the gods can do. The trend among Epic [equipment] Focus and Epic [equipment] Specialization feats is that they provide double the benefit of the non-epic versions. In keeping with this trend, I think a more appropriate version of the feat would read:

Epic Armor Focus [Epic, Fighter]
Choose any specific type of armor, such as chain mail or full plate armor, for which you have learned the Greater Armor Focus feat. You are the undisputed master at moving while wearing that armor.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected armor, Armor Focus with selected armor, Greater Armor Focus with selected armor.
Benefit: When wearing the selected armor type, the armor check penalty applied to your skills is reduced by 2. This reduction stacks with that granted by masterwork armor and that granted by Armor Focus, but cannot reduce the total armor check penalty to less than 0. The maximum Dexterity bonus for that armor increases by 2 if the armor is medium or heavy armor. These benefits apply both to standard armor and to armors made of special materials, such as mithral or adamantine.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different armor type for which you have learned Greater Armor Focus.

Anyway, I appreciate any feedback you guys can offer. If you guys like any of these, by all means please feel free to use them as you see fit in any of your campaigns.

Rigeld
2005-12-13, 11:17 AM
Improved Dire Charge [Epic, Fighter]
You can make a full attack as part of a charge at any time.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +23, Dire Charge
Benefit: The character can make a full attack as part of a charge.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Notes: If it's too powerful, Superior Initiative (one of the worst epic feats) could be added as a prerequisite to tone things down. Personally, I think being required to take 3 feats, 2 of which are epic, to be able to do this isn't too unreasonable, especially considering the restrictions on when someone can charge, plus it can't be taken till level 25 at the earliest. The BAB restriction is obviously flexible, but I feel there should be some minimum so that a person couldn't just grab both Dire Charge and Improved Dire Charge immediately at 21st level.

I dont remember the name, but theres a non-epic feat that does this.

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-13, 11:28 AM
There is an ability possessed by some animals and other monsters called Pounce, which allows this. That ability reflects attacking with all of the natural attacks (1 each since you can't get multiple attacks with any given one), rather than swinging a sword 4 or 5 times.

If there's a non-epic feat that allows you to do a full attack action as part of a charge, with no special caveats or obscene restrictions, that is absurd and broken. If this is pulled from some obscure OGL book that has no accountability, I'm going to discount that for the garbage it is.

Dizlag
2005-12-13, 11:52 AM
Here's the information on Dire Charge, an epic level feat ...

Dire Charge [Epic]
Prerequisite: Improved Initiative.
Benefit: If you charge a foe during the first round of combat (or the surprise round, if you are allowed to act in it), you can make a full attack against the opponent charged.
Normal: Without this feat, you may only make a single attack as part of a charge.

Notice the bolded text ... this feat is only allowed in the first round of combat or suprise round. And, it's epic. Question is, if there IS a surprise round and the character with this feat is not allowed to act in it ... do they still get the benefit of this feat in the first full round of combat? My first thought would be no, the surprise is gone as well as a round of combat. I dunno. What say ye all?

Dizlag

NEO|Phyte
2005-12-13, 11:55 AM
The reason anyone would want overwhelming crit?
Its a prereq for devestating crit.
"Oh look, I critted you. fort or die"

I created a viscious epic monk/fighter combo.

base attack: 42/42/42/37/22/27
damage: 1d6 + 2d10 + 8 + Str crit 19-20x2
Ki Strike (Magic, Law, Adamantine, Epic)
can choose to be Keen (18-20 crit range) or Vorpal
On crit deal additional 1d6, plus Fort DC 38 or Die, and gain an additional attack on target

Sure he could have a greater crit range as a pure fighter with a magic weapon, but its harder to disarm a monk.

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-13, 12:51 PM
The reason anyone would want overwhelming crit?
Its a prereq for devestating crit.
"Oh look, I critted you. fort or die"

I created a viscious epic monk/fighter combo.

base attack: 42/42/42/37/22/27
damage: 1d6 + 2d10 + 8 + Str crit 19-20x2
Ki Strike (Magic, Law, Adamantine, Epic)
can choose to be Keen (18-20 crit range) or Vorpal
On crit deal additional 1d6, plus Fort DC 38 or Die, and gain an additional attack on target

Sure he could have a greater crit range as a pure fighter with a magic weapon, but its harder to disarm a monk.
Devestating crit really isn't that good, and is also decidely unbalanced. Why?
1) More likely than not, anything actually WORTH killing in one shot is going to make the saving throw... in the epic game this is a common problem among just about every "save or no effect" ability.
2) You're devoting two entire feats to something that doesn't happen often and has a very good chance of not working.
3) There's still the limitation on melee only attacks... what makes a melee critical inherently more deadly than a missile attack?
4) This feat is unbalanced in favor of high threat range weapons... granted, I thorougly enjoy abusing high threat range weapons with my characters, but this sort of feat (as well as the +1d6 damage garbage feat) unduly favor a rapier or scimitar over an axe or mace, as well as favoring multiple weaker attacks over fewer stronger attacks.

Given the theme they were clearly going with with that feat ("durrrrr.... me hit hard so you must die!!!") as reflected in it being melee weapons only and requiring a high strength, the notion of dual wielding kukris being MUCH MUCH more likely to instantly kill someone during one round than a greataxe is patently absurd. Want a more balanced version? Make the DC something to the effect of 10+ 1/2 damage dealt... this way the high threat range weapons are balanced against the high crit modifier weapons, because while you're scoring crits more often, you're not doing as much damage so the chance of actually instantly killing something are less significant. It would also make the feat DECENT since you can affect the DC in fashions other than simply leveling up.

But anyway, I can pick apart garbage feats all day, what I'd really appreciate is folks sounding out about what's unbalanced/wrong/needs to be tweaked in the feats proposed above.

Dizlag
2005-12-13, 01:43 PM
Sorry about not commenting specifically on those feats you listed above. Here are my comments on them:

[hr]
Improved Dire Charge: Actually, making Superior Initiative a prereq is a nice way to tone it down. Although, you could raise the BAB of +23 to +25 instead giving the epic character time to use Dire Charge for a bit.

Greater Critical: If you change the prereq of Power Critical to Epic Weapon Focus, then you can open this up to bowmen as well. Power Critical wouldn't be picked up by archers, Epic Weapon Focus will to get to this feat.

[hr]

Hmmm, all I can get to right now ... on my lunch break. =) I'll comment more later!

Dizlag

Rigeld
2005-12-13, 01:44 PM
There is an ability possessed by some animals and other monsters called Pounce, which allows this. That ability reflects attacking with all of the natural attacks (1 each since you can't get multiple attacks with any given one), rather than swinging a sword 4 or 5 times.

If there's a non-epic feat that allows you to do a full attack action as part of a charge, with no special caveats or obscene restrictions, that is absurd and broken. If this is pulled from some obscure OGL book that has no accountability, I'm going to discount that for the garbage it is.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm
Theres a feat in UE that allows it with light weapons only.
Theres a feat in CD that lets you spend a wildshape to do it.
5th Level of Lion of Talisid can do it all day for free.

So I cant find a feat that does it (I could swear there was) but theres a spell (Lion's Charge) a Psionic power, a limited feat, a "charged" feat, and a class feature. All pre-epic. I think you can get the class feature by lvl 11.

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-13, 02:45 PM
[hr]
Improved Dire Charge: Actually, making Superior Initiative a prereq is a nice way to tone it down. Although, you could raise the BAB of +23 to +25 instead giving the epic character time to use Dire Charge for a bit.
Yea, Superior Initiative certainly would tone it down a bit, I just personally despise that feat. Improved Initiative is garbage to begin with since the only thing it has any impact on is the first round of combat, but Superiror Initiative breaks just about every convention of Epic Feats. Just about every epic feat out there is at least twice as effective as its non-epic counterparts, but Superior Initiative just gives the same bonus.



Greater Critical: If you change the prereq of Power Critical to Epic Weapon Focus, then you can open this up to bowmen as well. Power Critical wouldn't be picked up by archers, Epic Weapon Focus will to get to this feat.

I had thought about doing that, the problem is that Epic Weapon Focus is restricted by your class, whereas nothing having to do with criticals has ever been restricted by your class. If this prereq were put in there only those with a significant number of fighter levels could ever take this, whereas with the Power Critical prereq it would at least be available to, say, ranger archers, or rogues. For the record, I really don't like the Power Critical feat, but it's something pertaining to the critical process which might make a suitably undesirable prereq for a feat this good.

To Rigeld: What book is UE? I'm racking my brain for what those initials could stand for and am coming up at a loss. Also, what book is the Lion of Talisid prestige class from?

Anyway, I appreciate the input folks.

Dizlag
2005-12-13, 03:01 PM
Ok ... I've got some time here, so I'll continue:

[hr]
Greater Overrun/Overrunning Charge/Destructive Overrun: Very nice suite of feats. I love the concept of them! Greater Overrun should be epic though, not general. I suggest adding the Strength 25 to the prerequisite for Greater Overrun and remove the Strength 25 prerequisite from the Destructive Overrun description, since Greater Overrun is a prerequisite. Another comment about Greater Overrun would be after every overran opponent, the next should be harder because of the momentum lost after hitting an opponent. So, I submit that this penalty should be a -2 on the next overrun check after the first, and -2 more thereafter. Think of it as an Overrun Range Increment ... =)

Glug, a half-orc barbarian has 5 opponents between him and his target ... a skinny mage. He begins overrunning his opponents, getting a -2 penalty when trying to overrun the 2nd, -4 on the 3rd, -6 on the 4th, and finally a -8 on the 5th. Until finally, after moving 40 feet knocking 5 fighters to the ground, he can cleave the mage in two with his greataxe!

I like Overrunning Charge being limited to one opponent. Very nice. And like Greater Overrun, the Destructive Overrun should have a "Range Increment" as well.

Armor Focus/Greater Armor Focus: I agree with what you said about including light armor as well. The new description looks good.

Epic Armor Focus: Again, nothing more to add here ... I agree with the increase of 2 for max Dex and check penalty reduced by 2.

[hr]

So, what do you think?

Dizlag

EDIT: Sorry, just saw your reply regarding Epic Weapon Focus being restricted by class, ie Weapon Specialization. I forgot about that ... ummm ... *checking d20 SRD* Epic Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicWeaponFocus) only lists Weapon Focus as a prerequisite, the way it should be IMHO. Hoody hoo!

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-13, 03:20 PM
First of all, I really appreciate the input.

The cumulative -2 penalties for additional targets makes a lot of sense, and serves to balance it with the tumble penalties so one isn't preferable to the other necessarily for getting through multiple targets.

As far as Greater Overrun being Epic rather than General, in the scale of things I really don't think its that good (at least without the corresponding Epic Feats). First of all, you're devoting two feats simply to the ability to move through things squares... something that can be accomplished readily enough with Tumble skill. Second, there's no guarantee at all that you're actually going to *get* through... at least with Tumble checks you can look at the numbers and known exactly whether or not you'll make it (or at least what your chances are). With the added penalties per target, as per your suggestion, this seems quite balanced for a non-epic feat.

Regarding Epic Weapon Focus... the Complete Warrior updated the feat to 3.5 rules, making the prerequisites Weapon Focus AND Greater Weapon Focus, meaning you'd need at least 8 level of Fighter before being able to take Epic Weapon Focus. They also say in there that "The version of a feat described here supersedes any previously published version of that feat." The previously published version being, in this case, Epic Weapon Focus as presented in the Epic Level Handbook (a 3.0 book) and referenced in the SRD. So not-so hoody-hoo :-/

Dizlag
2005-12-13, 03:57 PM
You're very welcome for the input. These boards are giving me SO many ideas I think my head will explode. :D

Hmm, bummer about Epic Weapon Focus. I remember looking at Greater Weapon Focus and such in Complete Warrior thinking the Fighter level requirement sucks on those feats. On Weapon Specialization feats, ok ... I'll give them that one. Putting the fighter level requirement on Weapon Focus feats, just doesn't sit right with me. Taking the Fighter level requirement away from Greater Weapon Focus isn't unbalancing, in my opinion. In that case, with what I submitted, Greater Critical would be open to any class. Any class that would spend 4 feats (WF, GWF, EWF, and Improved Critical) to get this epic feat, isn't out of balance. However, that's assuming you make a house rule to change a published feat from Complete Warrior. Shrugs. Oh well, no much of a hoody hoo then.

I just had a thought ... rewrite Greater Critical to improve the range increment of a chosen weapon by 1 and create a feat called Epic Critical increasing the multiplier by 1, like so ...

[hr]
Greater Critical [General, Fighter]
Choose one type of weapon, such as a longsword or longbow. With that weapon, you are capable of getting a critical more frequently.
Prerequisites: Improved Critical with a chosen weapon, Weapon Focus with a chosen weapon, Base Attack Bonus +12
Benefit: The critical range of your chosen weapon increases by 1. Example: A longsword's critical range is 19-20, with improved critical this range doubles becoming 17-20. With this feat it increases by 1 to 16-20.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different weapon for which you have learned Improved Critical.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.


Epic Critical [Epic, Fighter]
Choose one type of weapon, such as a longsword or longbow. With that weapon, you are capable of doing massive amounts of damage on a succesful critical hit.
Prerequisites: Improved Critical with weapon to be chosen, Weapon Focus with weapon to be chosen, Greater Critical with weapon to be chosen.
Benefit: Choose a weapon. The crit multiplier of that weapon is increased by n-1, where n is the base crit multiplier of the weapon. This feat does not stack with similar effects. Example: A longsword's multiplier is x2. With this feat it increases to x3.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different weapon for which you have learned Greater Critical and Improved Critical.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

[hr]

Now, I realize improving the crit range is different than the modifier, so in this case the epic feat doesn't quite match the non-epic ones. However, having to spend the feat to increase that crit range a little bit more opens up the ability to put a little more behind your critical doing massive damage. That's one way to look at it.

Regarding your comments about Greater Overrun not being epic. I see your point and the -2 cummulative penalty could balance it as a general feat. Maybe a minimum BAB is in order though ... say +8 or +12? Just a thought!

Dizlag

Rigeld
2005-12-13, 05:45 PM
To Rigeld: What book is UE? I'm racking my brain for what those initials could stand for and am coming up at a loss. Also, what book is the Lion of Talisid prestige class from?

Anyway, I appreciate the input folks.

Unapproachable East, and BoExalted Deeds.

Don Beegles
2005-12-13, 06:34 PM
I just wanted to point out that after level 20 you no longer gain bonuses to your BaB, after that it is just an epic attack bonus which you gain every other level. I don't know how you would word it to tae tha into effect.

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-14, 12:53 AM
I just wanted to point out that after level 20 you no longer gain bonuses to your BaB, after that it is just an epic attack bonus which you gain every other level. I don't know how you would word it to tae tha into effect.
This is addressed in the Epic Level Handbook. For purposes of BAB requirements (but not for attacks per round), the EAB stacks with the BAB, hence why they have BAB requirements over 20 in it.


Greater Critical [General, Fighter]
Choose one type of weapon, such as a longsword or longbow. With that weapon, you are capable of getting a critical more frequently.
Prerequisites: Improved Critical with a chosen weapon, Weapon Focus with a chosen weapon, Base Attack Bonus +12
Benefit: The critical range of your chosen weapon increases by 1. Example: A longsword's critical range is 19-20, with improved critical this range doubles becoming 17-20. With this feat it increases by 1 to 16-20.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, this feat applies to a different weapon for which you have learned Improved Critical.
A fighter can select this as one of his bonus feats.

Regarding your comments about Greater Overrun not being epic. I see your point and the -2 cummulative penalty could balance it as a general feat. Maybe a minimum BAB is in order though ... say +8 or +12? Just a thought!

Not to try to shoot the Greater Critical thing down, but as presented it's unbalanced. It unevenly favors weapons with a high crit modifier but small threat range, and what's more, for those weapons would essentially be like being able to take Improved Critical
twice, and in 3.5 they specifically made it so you can't stack effects that increase threat ranges.

I think that idea of the minimum BAB on Greater Overrun is just what it needs though, a +8 minimum BAB would put it in line with things like Greater Weapon Focus and Improved Critical, thus forcing some fighters to make some decisions whenever they hit +8 if they want to do EVERYTHING.

SilverElf4
2005-12-16, 12:34 PM
Devestating crit really isn't that good, and is also decidely unbalanced. Why?
1) More likely than not, anything actually WORTH killing in one shot is going to make the saving throw... in the epic game this is a common problem among just about every "save or no effect" ability.
2) You're devoting two entire feats to something that doesn't happen often and has a very good chance of not working.


I'm afraid I just don't agree with this at all. Since rolling a 1 is automatic failure, all it takes is stacking up the number of criticals so the opppnent has to make enough saves to where that 1 inevitably shows up. Given the ways epic fighters have connived to get ridiculous numbers of attacks at epic level (in one thread I was in recently, 17+ per round, and that was with a very strict rules interpretation on my part), then I would think any fighter worth his salt will force a failed fort save within 5 rounds or so. The enemy will die even quicker if he's packing vorpal weapons...

As far as your greater critical is concerned, epic characters are powerful enough without giving them 5x or x7 multipliers on their weapons, particularly given what I have said about attacks above.

SilverElf4
2005-12-16, 12:35 PM
Regarding Epic Weapon Focus...The previously published version being, in this case, Epic Weapon Focus as presented in the Epic Level Handbook (a 3.0 book) and referenced in the SRD. So not-so hoody-hoo

Actually, the SRD is 3.5 and reflects the update to Greater and Epic Weapon Focus, d20srd.org is just behind in its updating, that's all.

SigaVaHeil
2005-12-17, 09:15 AM
I'm afraid I just don't agree with this at all. Since rolling a 1 is automatic failure, all it takes is stacking up the number of criticals so the opppnent has to make enough saves to where that 1 inevitably shows up. Given the ways epic fighters have connived to get ridiculous numbers of attacks at epic level (in one thread I was in recently, 17+ per round, and that was with a very strict rules interpretation on my part), then I would think any fighter worth his salt will force a failed fort save within 5 rounds or so. The enemy will die even quicker if he's packing vorpal weapons...

As far as your greater critical is concerned, epic characters are powerful enough without giving them 5x or x7 multipliers on their weapons, particularly given what I have said about attacks above.

This is, of course, up to the DM, but in my opinion every epic level campaign should be played with the 1 = -10 and 20 = 30 optional rule. If your PCs are fighting anything even remotely interesting, or remotely challenging for that matter, 1 or more of them would be dying every other session in which combat is involved due to the sheer number of things that create save or die effects, or for that matter save or kill the rest of your party effects. If nothing else, the massive damage rules will get your people killed all the time, even though the save DC is a measily 15.

As far as whether or not these feats are balanced, I'd ask you to look more at whether they are balanced against comparable feats and for different situations, rather than what people should or should not be allowed to do. As far as "balanced" things go, I've got an ECL 27 character (level 25) template that can do 1400 damage with one attack (granted, the attack takes a full round). I've also got some simple meta-magic enhanced spells castable around or before level 30 that do in excess of 1000 damage. If you really want to get into epic stuff, utilizing the absolutely broken rules for Epic Spells, with the right combination of 4 or so carefully thought out epic spells cast in a ritual, it doesn't matter how many attacks a fighter gets in a round because he's gonna miss every one of them, and if he hits, they're gonna do no damage.

When it comes down to it, with the plain ol' rules WotC has given us, a person can munchkin out some OBSCENE combinations, but I'd still like to offer warriors the opportunity to do more of what they already like to do, rather than forcing them to diversify, or encouraging them to break the rules system as is so easily done.

SilverElf4
2005-12-17, 03:12 PM
This is, of course, up to the DM, but in my opinion every epic level campaign should be played with the 1 = -10 and 20 = 30 optional rule.

I think this illustrates why this is so hard a thread to respond too. Every DM, particularly at Epic level, has their own house rules and mods to deal with. Unfortunately, its impossible to take all those into account when commenting on something like this.

That's not so say I disagree with anything you have said above, I agree with most, if not all of it. In the end commentary gives way to playtesting with whatever particular rules set the DM is using. Good luck with your own particular balancing act! :)