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View Full Version : Ability Checks? (d20)



Otogi
2009-07-07, 09:00 AM
I've been looking through the 3.5 DMG, and I saw this little table on ability checks. The problem with it, though, is that it wasn't very clear cut and didn't give enough examples (wisdom gave someone about remembering someone).

I was wondering if someone over would give me an example of what would need an ability check.

The Rose Dragon
2009-07-07, 09:06 AM
If it doesn't fit anything else in the game, it's an ability check.

Mostly, you're looking for a non-decreasing difficulty over the career of the character. Doesn't matter if you're level 1 or level 20, that rock is going to be as heavy and as hard to carry if you didn't increase your Strength.

kamikasei
2009-07-07, 09:08 AM
Essentially, it's anything where you do want to roll (rather than just say as a DM judgment call whether it works or not), and where an ability does make a difference (rather than it being pure chance), but where there's not a specific skill that covers it. For example, a Dexterity check to catch the priceless vase the merchant drops before it hits the ground and breaks would be reasonable. Strength checks are called for all the time to, say, force open a door, flip over furniture during a fight, etc. You might make an Int check to get a clue to help you figure out a puzzle, the DM might call for a Wis check if you're about do so something seriously against in-character common sense, etc.

Kurald Galain
2009-07-07, 09:09 AM
I was wondering if someone over would give me an example of what would need an ability check.

In D&D, I very rarely use them, because they end up being mostly random and are apt to fail even on easy DCs. I recommend using skill checks instead.

That said,

Strength: lifting heavy objects, and clasically, bend bars / lift gates. Although this gets really ridiculous under 3E/4E rules, because there are very good odds that the scrawny rogue will out-lift the bulky fighter purely at random.

Dexterity: sprinting is about the only thing I can think of that isn't covered by skills.

Constitution: resistance to a variety of minor toxins, including alcohol (although it would make more sense to ask for a fort save)

Intelligence: deciphering a puzzle, or playing any of a variety of mental games such as chess. I tend to allow skill ranks in either, if players want. Also, remembering someone should obviously fall under intelligence, not wisdom. After all, int = learning and reasoning, and knowledge checks are strongly about remembrance as well, and are all based on intelligence. Wisdom = willpower & common sense, and has nothing to do with remembering.

Wisdom: "sixth sense", as well as clue rolls: if one of the PCs is about to do something really stupid, the DM might ask for a wis check to realize how stupid it really is. I'm not saying this is such a great rule, but it is a relatively common example of wis checks. Another possibility is courage checks to avoid running away from something (although a will save might be more appropriate). Also, in some of my campaigns, activating and controlling artifacts requires willpower (i.e. wisdom) checks.

Charisma: I can't really think of anything not covered under skills.

John Campbell
2009-07-07, 10:14 AM
The 3.x ability check is a terrible mechanic, because the random factor is so large compared to the modifier or the DC. (Skill checks have the same problem at low levels, but eventually get better, until they break again at the other extreme.) Don't use them if you can possibly avoid it.

AD&D style ability checks, where you want to roll under your ability score on 1d20, possibly plus or minus some modifier, are much better. You could convert that to 3.x style by rolling 1d20 + ability score (not modifier!) vs. an appropriate DC (21 will be 50/50 success for someone with an average stat).

Talon Sky
2009-07-07, 10:21 AM
Charisma: I can't really think of anything not covered under skills.

I will have each player, when they encounter a plot-important NPC, roll a charisma check just to gauge the 'first impression' the NPC gets from them....given bonuses or negatives depending on how the PC's actually act.

That, however, is just me. That way, the NPC's don't say, "I like this group!" or "They're all heathens!" Instead, you get a multi-leveled NPC that might say something like, "I don't trust that wizard as far as I can throw him....but the ranger seemed like an alright fellow." It just mixes it up a little, and makes different members of the party RP each social encounter differently.

Blackfang108
2009-07-07, 10:28 AM
AD&D style ability checks, where you want to roll under your ability score on 1d20, possibly plus or minus some modifier, are much better. You could convert that to 3.x style by rolling 1d20 + ability score (not modifier!) vs. an appropriate DC (21 will be 50/50 success for someone with an average stat).

My group uses these for 3.5 (Unless an effect calls for a specific DC check, such as MAZE's INT check.) and they work well.

Heck, We use them in 4e as well.

ericgrau
2009-07-07, 10:29 AM
There are some actual examples of these in the rules:

Strength: Breaking open doors, breaking down walls, breaking out of bonds and just breaking in general.
Dexterity: Escaping in a short distance chase.
Constitution: Escaping a long distance chase, holding your breath, avoiding damage from starvation or thirst, just plain enduring in general
Intelligence: Common sense.
Wisdom: Figuring out how to change the direction of gravity on a new plane. Getting your bearings in general.
Charisma: Convice a charmed person to do something he wouldn't ordinarily do (opposed cha check). Turn checks. Persuasion in general, I think.

DCs are typically around 10 or 10+X, except for opposed checks and strength. i.e., if you're worried about players failing low DCs then just make them lower of course.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-07, 11:11 AM
I will have each player, when they encounter a plot-important NPC, roll a charisma check just to gauge the 'first impression' the NPC gets from them....given bonuses or negatives depending on how the PC's actually act.

That, however, is just me. That way, the NPC's don't say, "I like this group!" or "They're all heathens!" Instead, you get a multi-leveled NPC that might say something like, "I don't trust that wizard as far as I can throw him....but the ranger seemed like an alright fellow." It just mixes it up a little, and makes different members of the party RP each social encounter differently.

I use the Giant's variant (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html)of the Diplomacy skill, so I use Charisma checks in almost the exact same manner as you've described to make social encounters more interesting & varied. I think of it as a social Initiative roll, where better rollers have the advantage over those who rolled lower.

Draz74
2009-07-07, 11:26 AM
I will have each player, when they encounter a plot-important NPC, roll a charisma check just to gauge the 'first impression' the NPC gets from them....given bonuses or negatives depending on how the PC's actually act.

That, however, is just me. That way, the NPC's don't say, "I like this group!" or "They're all heathens!" Instead, you get a multi-leveled NPC that might say something like, "I don't trust that wizard as far as I can throw him....but the ranger seemed like an alright fellow." It just mixes it up a little, and makes different members of the party RP each social encounter differently.

That's the exact example I was going to give of non-skill Charisma checks.

Talon Sky
2009-07-07, 11:28 AM
That's the exact example I was going to give of non-skill Charisma checks.

I play bards. I know mah Charisma's uses ;p