Goths in the Playground

[neoseph7]

To my credit, I did do a search to see if this sort of thing has come up before, and was unable to find anything.

After having a discussion with some friends (the kind of friends you discuss anything with) I became curious as the the nature of those who call themselves "Goth".

So I have a few questions I'd love to see answered by the wild and zany GitP forum dwellers:

Given the following, am I a Goth:

I frequent "goth" clubs (dance clubs that play Industrial, Dark Alternative, Synth, retro, and a few other sub genres we could start a whole new thread on, all of which I love), I have purchased and fabricated my own: knee high boots, fingerless gloves (that reach to my elbow ofcourse :smallwink:), black cargo pants, and a handful of chokers that look like they belong on a dog (or in an S&M shop to say the least). I wear these articles mostly to go out clubbing (As opposed to, say, the mall, which I don't really explore very often, or to other social settings in general). And I have a thing for seeing people with weird colored hair and garments out of that same S&M shop.

Are you goth? And if so, what makes you goth?

If you are not goth, what do you percieve as goth?

Have you ever been to a goth club? Any recomendations?

Please remember we need to all be civil. I'm especially curious as to what playgrounders in other countries than the US have to say on the subject.

Edit. Before posting about clubs you've been to, let me read through the Rules on advertisements, just in case.

I think this is ok. I've been to a few places in Florida, namely Ascension in Gainesville and The Castle in Tampa (both of these places are 18 and over btw). I made a banner for Ascension a while back that I never got to show the publicity people, and I always wanted to show it off so... here (http://plaza.ufl.edu/neoseph/A%20is%20for%20Ascension.png).
I highly recomend both clubs if you are into that sort of thing, or want to try something new.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I listen to oldschool goth, dark/coldwave, post-punk, some deathrock, and so on. I sometimes look it, sometimes don't. I've been to goth clubs, but I don't think the same kind you have, from the sound of it. Mine were more akin to coffee shops/bars full of people in black smoking cloves, drinking chartreuse or black coffee. The more down-beat, less dancy kind of goth.

Mostly, I come into goth entirely from the punk side of things, not the dance side of things; I don't like New Order very much at all, but I love Joy Division. Similarly, the goth kids I hung out with have always been the stereotypically artsy, pensive types.

[Exeson]

Well I'm kinda confused as to what to class myself as but when people push me I usually say Nu-metal/Goth/Indie fusion.

Basically I wear like black and dark blues and purples and like trench coats etc, (Trad Goth), with chains (Nu-metal) and studs and other S&M stuff but I also have an affinity for trillbys, top hats, bowlers and waistcoats (Indie)

I think the thing is there are so many different variations that can be classed as 'goth' that one goth can look radically different to another goth.

[Toastkart]

I would consider myself a goth in an aesthetic sense. I like gothic/symphonic rock music. I wear primarily black, although I do add in darker colours too. I find death imagery, especially personifications of death, fascinating. This carries over to my interest in books, movies, etc.

Other than that, I don't think I come across as goth, though. I haven't dyed my hair black, I don't wear any metal of any kind (I have a hard enough time walking with arthritis in my knees and back that I don't need to carry extra weight around). I also live in Georgia, so wearing a trenchcoat, gloves, etc. without dying of dehydration between the months of April and October is pretty much impossible. I don't think they look that great anyway.

I haven't ever been to a goth club, but then, I haven't been to any other kind of club, either, and don't intend to start anytime soon. Live performances don't do much for me, and I don't drink or smoke.

I feel like I'm forgetting to mention something. Maybe it'll come to me later.

[neoseph7]

Mentioning not smoking or drinking. I've never smoked a day in my life, and I drink occasionally. I had been to a few clubs upon turning 21 (mostly to discover what kind of drinks I might like). These were standard clubs and bars in a college town. There was smoking, but not excessive (unless you are used to places with zero smoking, like classrooms or theatres and such). Then I went to a goth club. I was one of 3 individuals that didn't light up, of a total of about 30. Had I not fallen in love with the tunes, I probably wouldn't have returned.

[Nameless]

I don’t really label myself as anything. I tend to mix styles together. On some days one more then the other. Mainly Metal, Goth, a little bit of glam sometimes and I have some Visual Kei clothing. I tend to wear a lot of wrist bands, and some studded ones along with studded belts and necklaces. I also wear fish-nets or fingerless gloves. I don’t really go for the baggy jeans thing though, I usually stick with skinnies. I wear make-up, but only sometimes depending on wear I’m going but I usually have nail varnish on. I hardly ever die my hair though, I usually keep that natural though I do use hair spray on it and back-comb it sometimes. (It's kinda long though, so it doesn't stay up for long) As for music goes, I listen to quite a lot of different genres but my favourite band within the gothic scene is Deathstars. Awesome band.

[Elminster1]

If, for whatever reason, one does not like the Castlevania series, then you cannot be Goth. Sorry :smallwink:

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I'm totally a poser goth!

[Assassin89]

I'm not a goth, as a goth would be in Germany during the time of the Roman Empire, and I am neither German nor alive during that particular time period [/joke]

But to be serious, although I enjoy wearing black clothing, I am not goth in the aesthetic sense. My perception of goth is wearing dark makeup and/or clothing and having piercings, but not necessarily brooding in personality.

[Serpentine]

<.<
In high school I was friends with a wannabe goth and an ex-pretty hardcore Canberra goth. In uni I was friends with a Canberran friend-of-goths and went out with a guy who was told he "has the cheekbones" to be one.
>.>

I like the style and jewellery and stuff, but... well, most of the really nice stuff is ridonculously expensive (I was so close to getting a spiderweb lace dress, but I didn't like it quite enough to part with $200+ for it), and I don't think it suits me v.v

I think goths who take it too seriously are silly, but mostly y'all seem like very interesting, fun folks.

[oryx]

I listen to (some) goth music (industrial etc etc) but I don't really like goths...I mean that in a non offensive way. Err, actually, what Serpentine said - people who take it too seriously. Man I suck at explaining myself.

[Renegade Paladin]

Given the following, am I a Goth:

<snip>
I don't see "Participated in the sack of Rome" on the list. :smallwink:

[ghost_warlock]

In high school/college if I had grown up in a larger city, where there was a Goth subculture, I probably would've flown in those circles. As it were, the closest I came was wearing black a lot and listening to Metallica. :smalltongue:

I think I was really more of a "nature boy" than anything else.

[oryx]

Sooo what bands do y'all like?

I like KMFDM!!

[Yarram]

I've never really understood Goth Culture to be honest.
I'm not trying to be provoking, but what's the appeal behind it? I honestly want to know. (I don't fit under any particular stereotypes... Maybe just a plain old nerd, but I feel I'm too good at cutting people down to be that. Not that I do often. Just in reaction.)

[oryx]

the best thing about goth subculture is Repo! The Genetic Opera <3

I suppose it'd have the same appeal as any subculture - people who have similar interests and tastes to yourself. With added snootiniess :smalltongue:

[Verruckt]

Sooo what bands do y'all like?

I like KMFDM!!

Better than the Best, Megalomaniacal and Harder than the Rest!

Outside of Industrial and the odd goth metal band (Deathstars, why do I love you so?) I don't really do much that most people would identify as Goth save for wearing black t-shirts, but that's again more an effect of the bands I like and webcomics I read then any effort to belong to a niche. I do think gasmasks are awesome, and I was thinking of making a plague doctor outfit for Halloween (because they are really freaking cool) but other than a pair of black hiking boots I don't have any Goth wear.

I do love Repo: The Genetic so-gothic-it-hurts Opera, a maybe there is a dark, malignant being trying to claw its way out of my computer geek shell. I really hope not though, because that leads to LARPing V:tM and calling any group I hang out with a "coven", and I'd really have to throw myself feet first into a wood chipper if that were ever to transpire.


I've never really understood Goth Culture to be honest.
I'm not trying to be provoking, but what's the appeal behind it? I honestly want to know. (I don't fit under any particular stereotypes... Maybe just a plain old nerd, but I feel I'm too good at cutting people down to be that. Not that I do often. Just in reaction.)

You remember that scene that was in all of the matrix movies, where they'd burst into some concrete bunker lined with catwalks that had been turned into a nightclub? Everyone would be in leather and spandex or the skins of an endangered species dyed black and wearing gimp zippers and gasmasks, and some ultraheavy industrial thumping would be pumping while all of these fantastically nubile young people in outlandish outfits gyrated around. And then they'd all reveal that they were armed to the teeth with fantastically sexy black firearms of every description for no readily apparent reason?

Well, that's the appeal.

Of course under that veneer it's mostly slightly out of shape folks hanging around smoking cloves. Ah Goth culture, where the men are all creepy, the women all alternate between horrifying emotional scarring and substance abuse, and the children get stupid names like Raiden Darkthorne. (I really wish I were making that up)

Oh well, music's still good though.

Except Bauhaus.

**** Bauhaus.

[oryx]

Oh my god, okay, I changed my mind. The best thing about goth subculture is Vampire: tM Bloodlines. Mostly for the way people dance in the goth clubs. Which I can't find a video of on the 'tubes.

Anyway someone should get revolver kobold all up in here he used to be mega hardcore gothic.

I like...industrial and cyber goth??? I just looked through my iTunes and not a whole lot jumped out at me as being super goth though. I also just discovered that VNV Nation is not available in the Australian iTunes store.

Verruckt I like the cut of your jib. Unfortunately I also like Bauhaus.

[Fan]

the best thing about goth subculture is Repo! The Genetic Opera <3

I suppose it'd have the same appeal as any subculture - people who have similar interests and tastes to yourself. With added snootiniess :smalltongue:

Seconded entirely. I suggest that movie to any one who is reading this post.

The reason WHY I suggest it so avidly should be provided by a you tube search of my name.

I'm not GOTH per say, but I am of a lesser sub culture known as "Emo", although I refuse to "cut", or whine like a injured animal over nothing, I do prefer the styles, and find that kind of man (Ie. Tall, dark, and prefferably handsome), to be my type, so I just kind of fell in with it.:smallwink:

[oryx]

The reason WHY I suggest it so avidly should be provided by a you tube search of my name.


I wondered if your name was a reference! I only just saw the movie recently but man do I ever love it. I've heard a lot of people complain that it's too silly/over-the-top (everyone sings all their sentences, etc) but man, that's part of the appeal!

[Fan]

I wondered if your name was a reference! I only just saw the movie recently but man do I ever love it. I've heard a lot of people complain that it's too silly/over-the-top (everyone sings all their sentences, etc) but man, that's part of the appeal!

Indeed it is my friend, however this is terribly off topic, so I'd like to get back to the matter at hand. The Sacking of Rome, and how to go about it.:smalltongue:

[oryx]

Oh the Romans, they were well tough.

I'm totally going to take them off my LJ friends list.

[Verruckt]

These seem relevant know that I remember having them sitting in the massive bottomless pit I call my image folder:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/Jerisalem/2827175495_9096669800.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/Jerisalem/realgoths_t-shirt1.jpg

[Catch]

My girlfriend is a serious goth, to the point where she models the fashion.

I'm ambivalent to the subject, but I'll try to get her in here for the discussion.

[HellfireLover]

I was labelled as a Goth during High School (in the Nineties! :smallwink:) by my classmates because I refused to conform and wear short skirts like the rest of them - my school uniform was long black skirt, prescribed school jumper, black tights, Docs, and my black leather jacket. My friend dyed her (honey-blond) hair black and we used to sit around drinking coffee and using Ouija boards, talking about how much we liked long-haired rock boys, while burning black candles. Music played was Sisters of Mercy (although I feel obliged to say they're not Goth per se, because I don't want Andrew Eldritch to hunt me down and kill me), Marillion (again, not Goth), The Cure, My Dying Bride, and Paradise Lost. Having said that... I was also a mad Terrorvision fan at the time and listened to a ton of stuff like Therapy? and White Zombie, the Manics 'The Holy Bible' era, the Wildhearts, Smashing Pumpkins, Skunk Anansie - defo not Goth stuff, in other words.

I like the whole Goth style (all that leather and lace and corsets - what's not to love) but there's no 'scene' here, no sub-culture to join, and if I wanted to define my social image by the way I dress, I feel there's a better and more original way for me to do it.So no, I don't consider myself Goth, but there's probably still some people in this town who would label me as one given my penchant for black clothes, heavy kohl, and chunky footwear (Goth being a kind of catch-all insult. You know. :smallamused:)

[Serpentine]

The aforementioned ex-goth friend came from the thriving metropolis of Canberra* to the teensy little town of 1000 that is Tallangatta. I don't think I ever saw her gothed up, but I'm sure it was impressive. She was labelled "OMG GOTH" when she wore black nailpolish to school 9.9 (they said it was also her "black hair", but she never dyed it black, only dark brown).

[oryx]

Somewhat off-topic, but dying your hair dark brown looks SO MUCH better than dying it black, which I have never seen look anything other than incredibly unnatural.

I'm a huge fan of goths with really out-there hair, though, like neon green or pink.

[Fan]

Somewhat off-topic, but dying your hair dark brown looks SO MUCH better than dying it black, which I have never seen look anything other than incredibly unnatural.

I'm a huge fan of goths with really out-there hair, though, like neon green or pink.

:cough: It only looks unnatural if YOUR DOING IT WRONG. I have mine done professionally, and am thinking of cutting it Razor Layered here soon when I go to my stylist. <3 .

[RabbitHoleLost]

I listen to the Cure.

...That is about my extent of gothdom.
:: waddles off to bed::

[Serpentine]

You couldn't waddle if you really were a rabbit :smalltongue: You would bound elegantly on your well-proportioned hind legs, muscles bulging and springing with awe-inspiring strength...

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'm not goth, but people apparently think I am because I wear black clothes and sacked Rome....

Alright...Damnit, I admit, I sacked it two times....

I still don't see why people think I'm goth........

[neoseph7]

Is there anyplace other than rome one can sack to be a goth? It's kinda hard to get to in a Neon when you live in the states.:smalltongue:

@ Serpentine. I don't know how you would have looked in the $200+ dollar dress, so I can't really tell you if it would have been an investment, but I picked up this Vest thing with epic buckles running it's length for over $300. In the end though... it wasn't really worth it. The really expensive stuff, you become hesitant to wear out due to fear it will rip or worse, and thus loose such an expensive garment. Not that it doesn't make your closet look awesome!

[oryx]

I dropped $350 on a second hand pair of boots, and I'm the opposite - I wanna make sure I get my money's worth so I want to wear them all the time (but they are not very practical)! I even bothered to bring them with me when I moved countries. They could do with a polish.

On the other hand the boots I probably wear the most only cost me $8!

[The Extinguisher]

I try for this "goth-punk" look. I do alright.

I couldn't imagine spending that amount of money on clothes. The most expensive thing I own are a $100 pair of pants that are now shorts.

[AngelSword]

It can be ventured that I can call myself a goth (listen to goth/industrial, own a lot of black clothing, would rather concern myself with the club scene than the political scene, consider myself friends with members of a Darkwave band), but on the whole, I really can't be bothered. The amount of effort that some people put in to being goth is just too much than I'm willing to put forth. And considering the amount of drama in which I seem to find myself embroiled was enough for me to avoid it.

But it seems people wish to label me as such, and I'm too lazy to correct them.

[ghost_warlock]

I listen to the Cure.

...That is about my extent of gothdom.
:: waddles off to bed::

You couldn't waddle if you really were a rabbit :smalltongue: You would bound elegantly on your well-proportioned hind legs, muscles bulging and springing with awe-inspiring strength...

Artist's* interpretation of Rabbit about to "waddle" off to bed:

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/ghost_warlock/duckrabbit.jpg

*Personally, I think the guy's a hack, but what do I know...

[Agamid]

<< very proud goth here. have been for almost half my life :smallsmile:
if i had my way (and it were colder in brisbane) i'd get around in elaborate medieval-esque gowns all day (maybe something victorian as well just so i can get the bustle and obscene amounts of lace), so i guess that makes me a romantic goth?

[Nameless]

I've never really understood Goth Culture to be honest.
I'm not trying to be provoking, but what's the appeal behind it? I honestly want to know. (I don't fit under any particular stereotypes... Maybe just a plain old nerd, but I feel I'm too good at cutting people down to be that. Not that I do often. Just in reaction.)

Because (http://dsphotographic.com/g2/16259-3/001+-+Harajuku+Goths.jpg) it's (http://i.pbase.com/o6/92/229692/1/72764481.XlagqhMh.003a.jpg) pretty (http://th08.deviantart.net/fs28/300W/i/2008/170/e/3/Cyber_Goth_by_biohazardbitch.jpg) darn (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6u2T5u0E-dM/SU7O7yl3r9I/AAAAAAAAABI/955XwxvbBmk/s320/gothic-lolita.jpg) awesome (http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs21/i/2009/040/5/3/Visual_Kei_by_Attyca.jpg) I guess. I do like Goths, they're usually cool people.

[Agamid]

Sooo what bands do y'all like?

I like KMFDM!!

see for yourself: http://www.last.fm/user/Agamid

[oryx]

My musical compatibility with Agamid is HIGH!

[Ziren]

I'd describe myselgf as a goth-firendly person. I hang out with a couple of them and those who actually bother to get to know me are usually okay with me. Sometimes I go to a local goth club with a friend of mine, but it's mostly to socialize with her and her friends there. Oh, and to ogle the girls.

Otherwise I'd actually make a decent stereotypical goth:
- wear lots of black
- writes poetry
- easily and often depressed
- aims for a pedagogic job

My relation with goths is pretty forked: There's a lot of people in the scene that I really like and a lot that I can't stand at all. Almost nobody in the middle.

[Raistlin1040]

I listen to old goth. The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees. A bit of (symphonic) goth metal too, like Within Temptation and Nightwish. We don't really *have* a Goth population here, but if we did, I think that's probably what I'd be stereotyped into most of the time. I think Goth culture is pretty cool, most of the time, but I think it's sort of gone the way of punk, to be honest. There are still goths, and little circles they walk in, but it's gotten a bit too exclusive.

Modern Goth, like Modern Punk, isn't really about like-minded people coming together because they have similar interests. It starts out like that, I think, but then it devolves into "You're too mainstream, I'm the most goth person here." "No way, I'm SOOOOO more goth than you." "Guys, quit arguing. You're both conforming posers, I'm obviously the best goth." I realize that ever subculture has a bit of that, especially the ones that are a bit more underground, but it doesn't change the fact that it's gotten bad enough that it's turned into a pissing contest.

And *this* doesn't change the fact that if I had the money, I would totally buy a lot of gothic clothing. Enough to completely fill my dresser.

[Yarram]

Because (http://dsphotographic.com/g2/16259-3/001+-+Harajuku+Goths.jpg) it's (http://i.pbase.com/o6/92/229692/1/72764481.XlagqhMh.003a.jpg) pretty (http://th08.deviantart.net/fs28/300W/i/2008/170/e/3/Cyber_Goth_by_biohazardbitch.jpg) darn (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6u2T5u0E-dM/SU7O7yl3r9I/AAAAAAAAABI/955XwxvbBmk/s320/gothic-lolita.jpg) awesome (http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs21/i/2009/040/5/3/Visual_Kei_by_Attyca.jpg) I guess. I do like Goths, they're usually cool people.

I guess it looks cool... But its not really my thing. I guess most of my confusion is at going to the effort to look a certain way. I never do it, unless it's a very... very special occasion.

[oryx]

That's why I never bother with clubs (unless going with a pack of friends) - showing up in the equivalent of jeans and a tshirt - and worst of all, no makeup! - gets you an evening of snooty looks. Man I am just there for the dancing! Less snooty more...booty?

[Toastkart]

I've never really understood Goth Culture to be honest.
I'm not trying to be provoking, but what's the appeal behind it? I honestly want to know.

To me the appeal is in the imagery and evoked feelings, even the subject matter itself. For instance, this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/Einhander/Awesome%20stuff/deathfantastic.gif) was my wallpaper for a long time because it spoke to me. I don't even know where it's from. I don't see it as that different from people who enjoy certain genres of art over others.


Modern Goth, like Modern Punk, isn't really about like-minded people coming together because they have similar interests. It starts out like that, I think, but then it devolves into "You're too mainstream, I'm the most goth person here." "No way, I'm SOOOOO more goth than you." "Guys, quit arguing. You're both conforming posers, I'm obviously the best goth." I realize that ever subculture has a bit of that, especially the ones that are a bit more underground, but it doesn't change the fact that it's gotten bad enough that it's turned into a pissing contest.

While I don't disagree, you'll see this anywhere from sports to gaming or any other kind of group culture. It's nothing more than an overinflated sense of entitlement and the mistake of defining yourself by what you oppose.


I guess it looks cool... But its not really my thing. I guess most of my confusion is at going to the effort to look a certain way. I never do it, unless it's a very... very special occasion.

As far as effort is concerned, me neither, that and the expense of maintaining a particular appearance are what keep me from joining in the fashion more than I do.


Also, this:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/Einhander/Awesome%20stuff/gothics.jpg

[onasuma]

We already did the sacking of Rome joke right? Good, just making sure.

[neoseph7]

Also, this:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/Einhander/Awesome%20stuff/gothics.jpg

If you've been to a con, you've probably seen a few of the above. In the club scene, they aren't jail bait! (I'm kidding of course. I like to get gothed up to listen to good music is a fun atmosphere with great friends. The chicks in corsets with more lace than skirt are just a plus.)

That's basically what got me going in the first place. Then I realized all the guys looked pretty cool too (75% have the good fasion sense that seems to go with being gay. If only there were a way for us hetero's to look as hot:smallwink:)

[Ziren]

I listen to old goth. The Cure, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees. A bit of (symphonic) goth metal too, like Within Temptation and Nightwish. We don't really *have* a Goth population here, but if we did, I think that's probably what I'd be stereotyped into most of the time. I think Goth culture is pretty cool, most of the time, but I think it's sort of gone the way of punk, to be honest. There are still goths, and little circles they walk in, but it's gotten a bit too exclusive.

Modern Goth, like Modern Punk, isn't really about like-minded people coming together because they have similar interests. It starts out like that, I think, but then it devolves into "You're too mainstream, I'm the most goth person here." "No way, I'm SOOOOO more goth than you." "Guys, quit arguing. You're both conforming posers, I'm obviously the best goth." I realize that ever subculture has a bit of that, especially the ones that are a bit more underground, but it doesn't change the fact that it's gotten bad enough that it's turned into a pissing contest.

Really? My experience is pretty much the opposite. The older the genre the goth listens too, the more is he/she/it likely to call everyone who listens to a more modern sound as poser. Pretty much the same as with the Metal scene.

Also, in my area I've seen more good-looking female goths (I'm not really into goth colthes for males and, oddly enough, most goths I know seem to agree with me) than unattractive ones. But that might just be because Karlsruhe is such an awesome city :smalltongue:

[Verruckt]

I wonder if there's a cyberpunk subculture? Cybergoth seems to be approaching it but it looks more apocalypse punk than Transmet. Hmm... maybe one day there will be transhumanist night clubs, and they will be awesome.

[Nameless]

I wonder if there's a cyberpunk subculture? Cybergoth seems to be approaching it but it looks more apocalypse punk than Transmet. Hmm... maybe one day there will be transhumanist night clubs, and they will be awesome.

I see a lot of cyberpunks in Camden, and a few cybergoths, but not as many.

[john117]

I've been called Goth, but I don't consider myself Goth. I consider myself a Freak, as it is what people call me too. In other words, I'm some variation of Goth.

[Serpentine]

You mean you're, like, you or something? How absurd :smallwink:

[neoseph7]

I think everyone is simply who they are, and we can discuss genres and designations until we are blue in the face, only to say that we belong to little bits of this and that. It really is fascinating what everyone thinks on the subject. I'm also eternally grateful to those of you how listed bands, as I always feel frustrated after listening to an awesome song at a club and not being able to find it on my own (basically, you guys have helped me name favorite bands).

I'm pretty sure I've seen a few on my own, but what is a cyber goth? (and please. Not someone who sent rome malware:smallbiggrin:)

[Agamid]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a few on my own, but what is a cyber goth? (and please. Not someone who sent rome malware:smallbiggrin:)

(to my knowledge) cyber goths are what we used to call Gravers (goth ravers). So, like, fluro dread-locks, huge fluffy leg-warmers, bio-harzard t-shirt, goggles.. that kind of thing
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/2449897822_ded4453b27.jpg

[Serpentine]

Also, according to that picture, they all have bad breath, swine (or other) flu, or are afraid of coming into contact with one or the other.

[Agamid]

Also, according to that picture, they all have bad breath, swine (or other) flu, or are afraid of coming into contact with one or the other.

haha, funny you should mention that, i just spoke the the cousin i'll be moving in with in Canberra and she has swine flu. she'd better be out of quarantine by the time i move down... but when you consider the size of the goth community down in canberra, then if she has it then there is a good chance that she's given it to all of them...

but yes, i did wonder about the masks... have seen gasmasks being worn by gravers before but not weird surgical-like masks... but then, i don't go to raves.

[Serpentine]

I think quarantine's more or less scrapped now, it's too widespread. It's just a matter of treating it like any other flu...

[Nameless]

I shall creat a new gothic sub-culture... It shall be called STEAMGOTH! :smallbiggrin:

[neoseph7]

I shall creat a new gothic sub-culture... It shall be called STEAMGOTH! :smallbiggrin:

I think they already exist...

[Nameless]

I think they already exist...

Well, I jsut found this (http://community.livejournal.com/steamgoth/profile) but that doesn't count.

Steamgoth will be a lot like Steampunk, only with double the awesome.

[Agamid]

i would love to create a subculture of goths that take part in extreme sports, but seeing as how i don't enjoy extreme sports i doubt it will happen anytime soon (i just like the idea of a goth surfing or wakeboarding - like when i won the lucky seat prize at a surfing film festival i got dragged to in Sth Africa).

With all honest, and unfortunately, i've never met a streampunk who wasn't convinced they were god's gift to the world.

[Verruckt]

Well, I jsut found this (http://community.livejournal.com/steamgoth/profile) but that doesn't count.

Steamgoth will be a lot like Steampunk, only with double the awesome.

You might do well to look into Doctor Steel, there seem to be a fiar number of toy soldiers who fall into that category.

[Catch]

Since my girlfriend doesn't have an account in the Playground, I just let her use mine.


***

I have been officially Goth since I about sixteen years old, and am twenty-one now. My style over the past five years evolved radically, but I'm decidedly a Cyber Goth, as well as a developing EGL (Elegant Gothic Lolita). Before Facebook went to hell and let everyone join, there was a huge international community of Goths that frequented certain Goth-created groups there. There were many pissing contests, and I even had an argument with a guy in Sweden who claimed that Cyber Goths don't exist. Through those groups I was able to learn all the ins and outs of what it means to be Goth. The culture is very fluid and open to opinion, but there are some basic guidelines that I have found are constant:

~a majority of black wardrobe
~Boots or fancy shoes
~Very genre specific music tastes
~"I'm Goth-er than you" hierarchy
~Disdain for posers
~Ignorance is our greatest foe

A big problem I have with people who get "scene kids" and Goths mixed up is the cultural age line. Goth started in the 1980s in the US, and has a general drop off age of about 19/20 years old today in 2009. Anyone younger than that usually missed out on any of the Old Goth influence, and are generally influenced by the horrifying neon green pants that have infected Hot Topic.

It is true about Goths being snooty, I'm snooty about it. But the disdain comes from the crush between the "normies" claiming that Goths are crazy satanic kids that will slay a goat in a cemetary, and the "scene kids" claiming their raccoon eyeliner makes them the "New Goth." It's our way of defending ourselves, although a crappy way at that.

I began my modeling career last year as a Goth model, but I have not limited myself only to that area. Part of the reason why there aren't too many "alternative" models in the spotlight with Tyra is because they can't do anything besides Goth. I have found a good balance between my spikes and chains, and wearing pretty dresses.

If I had to use a metaphor, I would say Goths are very much like geisha. Appearance is very important and complicated: the hair, the ornamentation, the makeup, the clothes...I've even been told that I look like a piece of art running around.

If anyone is interested/curious, here is my full modeling page: http://www.modelmayhem.com/769749

So here are a few professional photos of me. (They're a little big.) Enjoy:

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%206-24-2009/IMG_3874.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%205-1-2009/49fbb113c0d02.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%206-24-2009/IMG_4124.jpg

[Bouregard]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%206-24-2009/IMG_3874.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%205-1-2009/49fbb113c0d02.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%206-24-2009/IMG_4124.jpg



Thats the reason I like goths, those cool costumes. Each year here in Leipzig we got a big goth-convention and thats 2-3 days where the city is filled with those blackish costumes. Its really surprising how creative some of those people are.

Personally I love black clothing, not because its cool. I wear it because its never really uncool or unfitting. With my usuall outfit I can attend a meeting, a funeral and a party without changing :)

[Jalor]

I've wondered for a while now whether I count as Goth. Almost every bit of my identity is somewhere on the fence between Goth and not-Goth, according to most of the people I know. Can anyone help with my unimportant personal crisis?

-I listen to a variety of music, including every single metal subgenre preceded by "progressive", "melodic", or "symphonic", as well as some thrash metal, some industrial metal, and most death metal. I also enjoy jazz fusion, some classic rock, some ambient, some experimental, and a whole lot of other stuff. I generally tend toward darker/minor key music as opposed to upbeat/cheerful music.

-I wear mostly black. Usually a concert t-shirt of a genre listed above with black jeans or cargo pants. Nothing over-the-top, no chains or leather. I make sure to spend as little on my clothing as possible, except for the aforementioned concert shirts. I'd wear a trench coat if I didn't live in Florida.

-I enjoy books/TV shows/movies of various sorts, but am an elitist in regards to quality. Genre-wise I like sci-fi and fantasy. As with my music, the darker the tone, the better. My favorite book is Idlewild, by Nick Sagan (American Gods is a very close second). My favorite TV show is Firefly, and I have yet to decide on a favorite movie, although The Road Warrior and Serenity are contenders.

-In regards to my philosophy on life, I'm probably the most cheerful nihilist in existence (whatever "existence" may be). I think life is meaningless and an illusion of the conscious mind, but I enjoy it anyway simply because you can do anything you want (within reason, that is). I also think "true love" is wishful thinking at best and a mental illness at worst, but that's a story for another time.

-That being said, I still can't stand 95% of the people I meet. Anyone who accepts what they hear without questioning/verifying it is out, as is anyone who makes a judgment before they understand the person or situation. I despise any kind of poser, anyone whose identity relies on the approval of others, and self-righteous people. I have what some people call a "villain morality".

-My sense of humor is dark and cynical. I have a bad habit of forgetting that most people would find my jokes more shocking than funny. People's reactions themselves are also pretty funny.

-I can't give a detailed description of my political or religious views, but on both counts most people think I'm joking when I tell them.

So, can anyone tell me for sure? Do I have to consider myself Goth to be so?

[Nameless]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/Claudia0406/Vinyl%20Photo%206-24-2009/IMG_4124.jpg

This is my favourite costume. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Not a goth.

Goth = Universal preference for dark clothing, preference against but not total ban on hints of color here and there as either highlights or... other things. Usually against solid colors that aren't black, universal band on pastels, brightest color allowed is either a sort of hot pink or red and only as a highlight to accentuate either the bust, another article of clothing or accessory, or the black.

Exhibit a preference for studs, occasionally for chains as well, but to a lesser extent than emos and metalheads.

Dyed hair is all but universal amongst the female population, with natural hair being the rarer exception rather than the rule. Favored colors are red, black, black with X streaks/highlights, X with black streaks/highlights.

Mildly-to-moderately antisocial as the norm and usually non-responsive to attempts by outsiders to engage with them.

Usually associated with average to slightly above average intellectual capabilities. Views held are generally cynical and humor is usually darker when present. Slightly higher prevalence of humorlessness than amongst the general population. Moderately higher prevalence of sexually deviant behavior. Much higher prevalence of homosexual/homoerotic expression, moderately higher acceptance of such, slightly higher prevalence of bisexuality though to a lesser extent than other perceptibly related subcultures.

Slight arrogance about superiority of its members to those of other subcultures in terms of caliber of person and general sexual appetites that feeds into a mild-to-moderate trend of viewing those who claim bisexuality with derision and scorn.

Strong tendency towards misanthropy and even those who are not overt or admitted misanthropes will admit to tendencies of at least viewing human beings with loathing or seeing others as lesser creatures than themselves, whether to the group or to the individual goth making such value judgments.

Unknown, but presumed strong, attraction/tendency towards holding post-modern belief systems or rejecting all belief systems as invalid or pointless.

Strong tendency towards self-esteem issues that lead to rejection of others and their values. Moderate tendency towards developing a tendency of arrogance as a protective shell against the world/others. Believe gender plays a role in either switching these or exacerbating them between the sexes.

[Catch]

Not a goth.

Goth = Universal preference for dark clothing, preference against but not total ban on hints of color here and there as either highlights or... other things. Usually against solid colors that aren't black, universal band on pastels, brightest color allowed is either a sort of hot pink or red and only as a highlight to accentuate either the bust, another article of clothing or accessory, or the black.

Exhibit a preference for studs, occasionally for chains as well, but to a lesser extent than emos and metalheads.

Dyed hair is all but universal amongst the female population, with natural hair being the rarer exception rather than the rule. Favored colors are red, black, black with X streaks/highlights, X with black streaks/highlights.

Mildly-to-moderately antisocial as the norm and usually non-responsive to attempts by outsiders to engage with them.

Usually associated with average to slightly above average intellectual capabilities. Views held are generally cynical and humor is usually darker when present. Slightly higher prevalence of humorlessness than amongst the general population. Moderately higher prevalence of sexually deviant behavior. Much higher prevalence of homosexual/homoerotic expression, moderately higher acceptance of such, slightly higher prevalence of bisexuality though to a lesser extent than other perceptibly related subcultures.

Slight arrogance about superiority of its members to those of other subcultures in terms of caliber of person and general sexual appetites that feeds into a mild-to-moderate trend of viewing those who claim bisexuality with derision and scorn.

Strong tendency towards misanthropy and even those who are not overt or admitted misanthropes will admit to tendencies of at least viewing human beings with loathing or seeing others as lesser creatures than themselves, whether to the group or to the individual goth making such value judgments.

Unknown, but presumed strong, attraction/tendency towards holding post-modern belief systems or rejecting all belief systems as invalid or pointless.

Strong tendency towards self-esteem issues that lead to rejection of others and their values. Moderate tendency towards developing a tendency of arrogance as a protective shell against the world/others. Believe gender plays a role in either switching these or exacerbating them between the sexes.

Screw the rules, I have clothes!

You've essentially compiled a list of stereotypes, most of which are wrong.

[oryx]

Man I thought that proper goths would never be caught dead calling themselves goths. :smalltongue: I kid, I kid.

Also I'm pretty sure being from Leipzig gets you a free pass Bouregard. :smallsmile:

All the goths in Australia are cyber goths. I love generalisations! But seriously I'm yet to see one NOT wearing massive dread falls leading to later neck and back problems.

[Verruckt]

All the goths in Australia are cyber goths. I love generalisations! But seriously I'm yet to see one NOT wearing massive dread falls leading to later neck and back problems.

Can you blame them? From what I've seen of Cybergoth it sounds like someone basically had a bright idea and said "Dude, what if we take something like Mad Max, but made it black?" and then the dude sitting next to him's head exploded and it was really metal, er, goth...

[neoseph7]

I think there may be a misconception, specifically with the higher tendency towards "Sexual Deviation" with the goth community. First off, those who are open minded about life in general are more inclinded to experiment with: Substances, Sex, Wardrobe, etc. Many view societary norms and dislike the fact that options in general are cut off from them, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea (See forbidden fruit syndrome). I think there may be a confusion with the cause and effect (Being goth didn't make you gay. Being open can make you both). Further, many who are open about life in general are more inclined to express it.

Sexual Deviation is where sexual activity has become a maladaptive behavior, and can result from a number of things, many of which can also lead to being anti social, goth, etc. Once again, cause and effect seem to have been confused (the cause(s) is(are) rarely obvious, so it's a common mistake).

The fact is, people are people, everyone is different, and it can be hard to accuratly pin down behavior for someone simply because they belong to a group. I do like how this discussion is showing everones idea on the subject. Fascinating really.

[Agamid]

that's like bisexuals. not only is it thought that all, or at least most, goths are bi, but also that being bisexual makes you a slut.
Or like being in an open relationship, which actually does seem to be more common in goth couples than in mainstream couples (at least in my experience). To my mind, an open relationship means you are having a relationship with someone (or several someones) but leaving yourself open to have more with other people. It's not just sleeping around.

[Serpentine]

There does seem to be some confusion between an "open relationship" and a "polygamous" or "polyamorous relationship"...

[Agamid]

ha! my brother just linked me this photo he took of me over xmas... maybe this should be a new subculture of goth; rural australian goth.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v647/76/72/644341973/n644341973_1899728_7920.jpg

[Coidzor]

Screw the rules, I have clothes!

You've essentially compiled a list of stereotypes, most of which are wrong.

Yeah. Pretty much, I'll give no comment as to the factual correctness. Otherwise they're no different from other people and we can't have that. Perhaps I should have worded things as association rather than causation, but, eh. He asked what "goth" meant to people, so I answered.

Oh yeah. Derision and contempt for claims of morality-based or influenced decision making.


To my mind, an open relationship means you are having a relationship with someone (or several someones) but leaving yourself open to have more with other people. It's not just sleeping around.

I thought it was viewed as having a relationship but also keeping the option/ability to go out and find a casual sexual partner(the sleeping around) or even an additional lover (which would lead to either consensual/non-consensual polyamory or dissolution of the old relationship in favor of the new one)

[Jalor]

Okay, but now I'm vaguely confused. Your verdict was "not Goth" and then you proceeded to list a bunch of things I mentioned. The only thing I said that wasn't in line with Coidzor's opinion was my opinion on wearing studs and chains and such. Was I unclear in my first post?

Oh, I'm polyamorous. Didn't think that was important to mention, but judging by the last few posts I guess it is.

[Serpentine]

I thought it was viewed as having a relationship but also keeping the option/ability to go out and find a casual sexual partner(the sleeping around) or even an additional lover (which would lead to either consensual/non-consensual polyamory or dissolution of the old relationship in favor of the new one)An open relationship is one in which you have one single partner/boyfriend/girlfriend, but are able to have fun, mess around, and/or just flirt and the like with other people.

[potatocubed]

Personally I love black clothing, not because its cool. I wear it because its never really uncool or unfitting. With my usuall outfit I can attend a meeting, a funeral and a party without changing :)

Whereas with my usual outfit I will attend a meeting, a funeral and a party without changing - and be woefully ill-attired for all three! :smallcool:

I used to be a goth, but now I lean more towards 'homeless lumberjack'.

[Coidzor]

An open relationship is one in which you have one single partner/boyfriend/girlfriend, but are able to have fun, mess around, and/or just flirt and the like with other people.

So how's that different from what I said? :smallconfused:

Cubed Potatos Man: And there's nothing wrong with that. Aside from the obvious question of what kind of self-respecting lumberjack doesn't build himself a home.

[oryx]

Coidzor, I think it's cause you included a lover/committed partner - I think that's starting to move more into polyamory rather than an open relationship. That's my understanding anyway, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :3

[Serpentine]

Pretty much. An open relationship is one single, committed relationship, with occasional, casual fun on the side. Taking "a lover" is not in keeping with an open relationship. Like my sister said: "Once is fun, twice is a mistake, three times is a relationship."

[Nameless]

An open relationship is one in which you have one single partner/boyfriend/girlfriend, but are able to have fun, mess around, and/or just flirt and the like with other people.

It's a lot like having a normal relationship but without the horrible nagging feeling that you shouldn't be socialising with other people. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

It's a lot like having a normal relationship but without the horrible nagging feeling that you shouldn't be socialising having sex with with other people. :smalltongue:

Fixed it for ya. Well, unless you're saying all non-open relationships are unhealthy ones. :smalltongue:

... Well, unless we've had a humorous series of miscommunications.

[Serpentine]

Nah, there is non-sex too. Flirting is fine, and one is more able to be more open about perving.

[oryx]

Yeah I wouldn't say that a monogamous relationship gives you the 'nagging feeling you shouldn't be socialising' but that's just me :smalltongue:

[SDF]

A big problem I have with people who get "scene kids" and Goths mixed up is the cultural age line. Goth started in the 1980s in the US, and has a general drop off age of about 19/20 years old today in 2009. Anyone younger than that usually missed out on any of the Old Goth influence, and are generally influenced by the horrifying neon green pants that have infected Hot Topic.

It seems to me that anyone younger than their early 30's couldn't have direct influence from the Bauhaus/Cure era. I couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 when most of that stuff was popular, and I don't remember much of it, less take away any real influence from it. Anyone can take indirect influence from a scene. People less than 19 are either still in, or just got out of high school. Any clique in that setting is going to have a, "Me too!" group mentality. (independent of individuals that are rare exceptions) Five years ago people in their early twenties were probably making the same claims.


ha! my brother just linked me this photo he took of me over xmas... maybe this should be a new subculture of goth; rural australian goth.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v647/76/72/644341973/n644341973_1899728_7920.jpg


OMG, Agamid is a post-apocalyptic messiah!
http://www.themadhousewife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mad-max.jpg

I'm not remotely goth. Never been accused of it either. I love some of the music, but never got into the scene. I prefer to wear bright colors, and don't like to wear black that much. The only boots I own are a beat up pair of redwings that I use for outdoorsy stuff. I mostly have an indie/nerd style of dress.

[SilverSheriff]

I regard myself as a Goth, I find other fashions to be tacky and tasteless.

[Serpentine]

I just did a (truly terrible) Facebook quiz called "What Kind Of Girl Are You?" I got Goth :smallconfused: Worth mentioning, it had a question, "Are you in a serious relationship right now?" There was no "yes" or "in a relationship but not serious" option :smallconfused:

[oryx]

I regard myself as a Goth, I find other fashions to be tacky and tasteless.

Goth can be pretty tasteless too. :smallwink:

What other fashion are you thinking of specifically? I kinda like mainstream fashion when it tends towards military themed (and on the rare occasions that stripes are 'in'). I also like FRUiTS/harajuku and indie/scene sorta clothing (not necessarily on me but when drawing, scoping for cute girls/guys :smalltongue: etc).

[Nameless]

I just did a (truly terrible) Facebook quiz called "What Kind Of Girl Are You?" I got Goth :smallconfused: Worth mentioning, it had a question, "Are you in a serious relationship right now?" There was no "yes" or "in a relationship but not serious" option :smallconfused:

What were the options? :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

What were the options? :smallconfused:

I'm guessing no (lonely) and no (hobag) were options...

[Serpentine]

From memory...

meh
What's a serious relationship?
...

Actually, bugger that, I'm looking it up again.

meh.
what's a serious relationship?
I wish
well, its sorta complicated
No, to busy to be in a "relationship"

They don't think much of their audience, hey. Incidentally...

How many friends do you have on facebook?
200-275
50-100
100-150
275-400...or more
0-50

There's no option for 150-200. I have 172. Oh, and also:

What Kind of Candy do you like?
Candy Makes You Fat! oh, wait or is that chocolate?
Candy isnt very healthy for you...
I cant eat candy... have to stay on a balanced diet
I like the most expensive Candies
meh....black licorice?

3 of them are "I don't cuz it's unhealthy". And finally, the last question:

What Do You Think Your Result Is Going To Be?
i dont know...something Smart or something
something FABULOUS
I dont know?
hopefully, FASHIONISTA or something expensive like that
meh, i couldnt care less

And to... I went away at this point, and now I can't remember what I was going to say. Oh yeah, to be more on-topic, this is what they say about Goths:
"You are very seldom and dont like to talk much...you have so many emotions that would like to be expressed but you dont know how to...you have an inner beauty that is covered by too much eye-liner and dark hair over your face =)"

...I'm very seldom? :smallconfused:

[Nameless]

Seldom isn't a personality, it's an adverb. :smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Ahh, faulty quiz construction. A universal constant.

[Nameless]

Ahh, faulty quiz construction. A universal constant.

To quizilla!

EDIT:

Wow, this is the worst question ever:

What religion are you?
Christian
Pagan/Wiccan
Satanism
Athesist
None of these

Yes, what a large selection.
Everybody knows that Pagan and Wicca are one thing.
That's like saying "Abrahamic/Judaism", what the Hell is wrong with this person? :smalltongue:

EDIT II: Oh dear God! These quizzes get worse as you scroll down! *Panics*

[Thanatos 51-50]

What religion are you?
Christian
Pagan/Wiccan
Satanism
Athesist
None of these

Well, to be absolutely technical, Wicca is a Pagan religion.
In the same sense the Christianity is a Catholic relgion or that a square is a rectangle.

[Nameless]

Well, to be absolutely technical, Wicca is a Pagan religion.
In the same sense the Christianity is a Catholic relgion or that a square is a rectangle.

Well yes, Wicca is a Pagan religion, but you can't say Wicca/pagan because that's like saying Christianity/Abrahamic. Pagan is any religion which doesn't follow the Abrahamic God. There's like, thousands, if not millions of these.

[Coidzor]

Yes, what a large selection.
Everybody knows that Pagan and Wicca are one thing.
That's like saying "Abrahamic/Judaism", what the Hell is wrong with this person? :smalltongue:

More like saying Judeo-christian, except there's usually more difference between Judaism and Christianity than between the mix-and-match of Paganism and Wicca, since they're drawing heavily from the same sources without even having had periods of killing one another.

But what do I know, I'm relatively ignorant of the specifics of each are since I view both as an insult and desecration of my heritage and ancestors. And, y'know, not actually knowing anyone who follows either of these, so there's less onus on me to know specifics, whereas I've known Jews, Christians, Muslims and what we would refer to as Hindus.

I imagine the quiz-maker's problem was that not only was he or she ignorant, but they were ignorant of their ignorance.


Well yes, Wicca is a Pagan religion, but you can't say Wicca/pagan because that's like saying Christianity/Abrahamic. Pagan is any religion which doesn't follow the Abrahamic God. There's like, thousands, if not millions of these.

Indeed, BUT. Paganism usually refers to a specific subset of these, since we generally do not refer to, say, Shintoism or Hinduism as Pagan.

Also, skirting skirting skirting. :smalleek:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Well yes, Wicca is a Pagan religion, but you can't say Wicca/pagan because that's like saying Christianity/Abrahamic. Pagan is any religion which doesn't follow the Abrahamic God. There's like, thousands, if not millions of these.

These quizzes are also likely created by people whos only exposure to a non-Christian relgion is Wicca (and only then, whiny kids who say they are to piss off their parents), which unfortunatly does tend to become interchangably known with Paganisim stateside.

[Jalor]

These quizzes are also likely created by people whos only exposure to a non-Christian relgion is Wicca (and only then, whiny kids who say they are to piss off their parents), which unfortunatly does tend to become interchangably known with Paganisim stateside.

Considering the other two choices are Satanism and Atheism, you are probably correct.

[Nameless]

More like saying Judeo-christian, except there's usually more difference between Judaism and Christianity than between the mix-and-match of Paganism and Wicca, since they're drawing heavily from the same sources without even having had periods of killing one another.

But what do I know, I'm relatively ignorant of the specifics of each are since I view both as an insult and desecration of my heritage and ancestors.

I imagine the quiz-maker's problem was that not only was he or she ignorant, but they were ignorant of their ignorance.

Pagan isn't a religion in itself, it's a term used to describe a religion. Wicca is Pagan, but so were the Egyptians and they have nothing in common with Wicca. In fact, the Egyptians have more in common with Christianity then Wicca.


These quizzes are also likely created by people whos only exposure to a non-Christian relgion is Wicca (and only then, whiny kids who say they are to piss off their parents), which unfortunatly does tend to become interchangably known with Paganisim stateside.

What annoys me more is that they probably know nothing about Wicca... Or Satanism for that matter.
...
Or Christianity... Or Atheism. (Which isn't even a religion)

[Thanatos 51-50]

Respectfully Request a change of immediate subject so as to not flaunt the "No discussion of Real-World religion" rule too much, as I fear we're rather dangerously close.

[Coidzor]

Pagan isn't a religion in itself, it's a term used to describe a religion. Wicca is Pagan, but so were the Egyptians and they have nothing in common with Wicca. In fact, the Egyptians have more in common with Christianity then Wicca.

Except there are people who proclaim themselves Pagan. or followers of/believers in Paganism. Thusly, that makes the name of their religion, in lieu of them supplying one (which is the assumption here), Paganism and them Pagans.

Difference between little p and big P. :/ It's kinda annoying actually, and I wish people didn't do it, but they do. I don't know how common it is, but it seems to be common enough that people that both follow it and those that don't refer to it as such. At least here in the U.S.

So. Goths. How big is the emphasis on artifice in one's appearance usually?

[Serpentine]

More like saying Judeo-christian, except there's usually more difference between Judaism and Christianity than between the mix-and-match of Paganism and Wicca, since they're drawing heavily from the same sources without even having had periods of killing one another.No, he's right, more or less. "Abrahamic" is any religion (well, the three, I think) that is according to its teaching descended from Abraham. Pagans are everyone else.

A lot, I think. But that doesn't mean they all look the same.

[oryx]

Man I love this thread.

[SilverSheriff]

Facebook Quizes Suck.

anyway: Back on topic people: Goths in the Playground.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Right: Goths.

I've been called Goth quite a few times, and actually have leaned a little bit towards calling myself a "Broke Goth" or "Wal-Mart Goth".

I guess the question is, where is the line drawn between Goth|Not-Goth?

[SilverSheriff]

Who knows these days? so many assumptions thrown around that it is funny...because people are stupid.

[neoseph7]

I actually do think the discussion of religion is relatively pertinent towards the discussion of social groups and the perceptions there-of, but true enough, let's toss the discussion on real world religion. If we look at religions considered "conventional" vs "non conventional", we would see more goths in the non conventional bin (though qualitating and quantifying religion probably doesn't get you much further than logic circles).

Also, how one practices their religion can also be seperated into conventional and non conventional, and once again the goth is likely to practice non conventionally (This all leading towards the "I am what I chose to be, not what others say" attitude that so many of us are expressing).

On the subject of clear lines and definitions... there are non. This is all symantics and nuance and hand waving. If you try to analytically study any social force or meme, you wind up with normalized data that's only right or accurate because the first step was assuming it was right to begin with (for those of you going "wtc? that makes no sense", yeah. Tell me about it:smallsigh:) Basically, you fit it all to a bell curve, with axis titles like #of piercings, # of hours spent with friends, %time of day spent arguing with legitimate authority figures, #of posts describing social science redunancy and logic, etc. But such data invariably leaves out the big image that so many of us want to express.

[Yarram]

This is sorta off topic, but if I listen to Jazz, Classical, Romantic, Baroque, Gypsy, Bigband and Choral music, wear whatever appears to be the best quality/most comfortable on first glance in the cupboard (mostly natural coloured clothing. Blues, greens, blacks and a few reds), whether or not it clashes with anything else, and read poorly written stories just so I can scorn them for fun, what does that make me?

[SilverSheriff]

This is sorta off topic, but if I listen to Jazz, Classical, Romantic, Baroque, Gypsy, Bigband and Choral music, wear whatever appears to be the best quality/most comfortable on first glance in the cupboard (mostly natural coloured clothing. Blues, greens, blacks and a few reds), whether or not it clashes with anything else, and read poorly written stories just so I can scorn them for fun, what does that make me?

A Black Pants Guy.:smallbiggrin:

[SilverSheriff]

I find it odd that I am the last poster to this awesome thread, the last post being yesterday.

[Lorn]

Wouldn't personally consider myself a goth, but others have called me a goth. Don't really know what - if anything - I am these days.

Description:
Clothing wise, I usually go for black jeans/grey combats (moving over to combats steadily - they're comfier) tucked into military patrol boots. Black tshirt, tucked into combats. Just easier, warmer and a bit more practical :p Also makes me look a bit older, for some reason I look a lot younger with it hanging around... I have weird body proportions.

From this, I might sometimes be wearing a hoody, sometimes a military assault vest with the belt removed and a Combichrist patch on, though only recently got this.

Usually have a backpack filled with anything I might need that day. Hoody/assault vest, water, paper, pen, anything.

Musically, I listen to a lot of Industrial/EBM - bands including but not limited to Angelspit, Ayria, Aesthetic Perfection, Grendel, Combichrist, Uberbyte, VNV Nation and so on. Seen AP, CC and UB live ;) They were epic. Also listen to some rock/metal. Less than I used to.

Hair is usually fairly short these days, used to be halfway down my back. Got this cut around the end of the school year in 07. Got it cut from midlength to short end of school year 09. Usually have a very short beard going all the way round the chin.

Based on that, I wouldn't have said I dress goth - or anything, really.


Oh my god, okay, I changed my mind. The best thing about goth subculture is Vampire: tM Bloodlines. Mostly for the way people dance in the goth clubs. Which I can't find a video of on the 'tubes.
Search "industrial dance." Probably the closest you'll get, I just searched Vampire Bloodlines Dance and it seems pretty similar. You'll also get introduced to a lot of good music ;) The first video is... pretty damn good, don't get put off by the music, you WILL get into it eventually :p Also worth taking a look at the Faderhead video TZDV - the lyrics are crap and mostly cheesy, but the beat's great and there's a lot of dancing in there.


Hmm... maybe one day there will be transhumanist night clubs, and they will be awesome.
I have a link for you. It is a link for a local Industrial/EBM night at Legends in Newcastle, Northeast England. Haven't been yet, but fully intend to at next available chance.

Club Tech Noir (http://www.clubtechnoir.com/main/)

Look at the pics. Also, look at the date for the next - just be announced and I'm ecstatic, I can actually make it! YAY! *puts on Combichrist and dances* May be missing the second day and Saturday night of a re-enactment but seriously? Worth it, I reckon.

[Agamid]

let me introduce you to my babies... they cost AUS$50 and still had their $600 price tag on them... sure the platforms needed complete re-construction, but that's why we make friends with cobblers :smallsmile:

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/231/f/2/The_boots_by_Armenius.jpg

[Nameless]

let me introduce you to my babies... they cost AUS$50 and still had their $600 price tag on them... sure the platforms needed complete re-construction, but that's why we make friends with cobblers :smallsmile:

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/231/f/2/The_boots_by_Armenius.jpg


I want those. :smalleek:

[Serpentine]

Hey, they look nearly exactly the same as those worn by a guy (4th in 2 years) who asked me whether my car's for sale! Except his had... not flat heels, but more platformy ones, and the buckles were silver.

[neoseph7]

I nearly had to change pants when I saw those boots. I should post the ones I made at some point.

[SDF]

I'll be honest, I don't understand those boots at all. $600?! I could get every kind of shoe I've ever wanted or needed for that!

[Ziren]

let me introduce you to my babies... they cost AUS$50 and still had their $600 price tag on them... sure the platforms needed complete re-construction, but that's why we make friends with cobblers :smallsmile:

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/231/f/2/The_boots_by_Armenius.jpg


I'm not much into high-heel boots (or high-heel footwear in general). But other than that, I like them.

[Agamid]

SDF: i completely agree with you objecting to the $600 price tag, i would never in a million years pay that much for any item of clothing, but i'm a serial op-shopper i get sickened by having to pay more that $15 for any item of clothing - except very cool stuff, like vintage fur, boots, formal dresses and leather. But $50 for ANY pair of boots is a good deal, at least in australia.
Ziren: i know that no one believes me until they try my babies on, but these are INCREDIBLY comfortable, like, almost as comfy as my docs. I have really bad joints and can't wear heals for more than a few hours and then am often in pain for the next day, but these i can wear all night without a problem (and being a shorty the platforms are really fun).

[Coidzor]

The fact that they're heels and platforms at that partially counteracts the coolness of everything above the sole by having a "clown shoe" moment on the toes...

[zeratul]

I'm into a good amount of goth/darkwave music, and I guess my clothing style is sort of goth although I'd say now it;s more metal. I'm sort of a combination of goth and metalhead. I wear lots of leather, spikes, wallet chains, trench coats, band Ts, black jeans, jeans, camo, that kind of thing, and love corpsepaint and black nail polish. Look wise it;s sort of a goth /biker/metal fusion depending on the day.

EDIT: OH and I have a deep loathing of mallgoths, although they do make trips to the mall more interesting as they give me something to laugh about.

[Ziren]

Ziren: i know that no one believes me until they try my babies on, but these are INCREDIBLY comfortable, like, almost as comfy as my docs. I have really bad joints and can't wear heals for more than a few hours and then am often in pain for the next day, but these i can wear all night without a problem (and being a shorty the platforms are really fun).

I meant "visually unappealing" rather than "uncomfortable" (which I can't assess).