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View Full Version : My Necromancer PrC, would like your opinions.



Jergmo
2009-07-07, 09:04 PM
I couldn't figure out how to do that fancy stat block for PrC stuff, so I'm copy/pasting a wordpad. Please bear with me.

Master Necromancer
Necromancers are spellcasters whose magics manipulate the power of death. In calling upon this power, necromancers risk being consumed by it--until eventually they join the ranks of the undead.
Hit Die: d4

Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Necromancy cannot be a forbidden school.

Class Skills
The necromancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Wis), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Hide(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Move Silently(Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points: 3 + Int Modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the necromancer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Necromancers gain no proficiency with weapons or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new necromancer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained al evel in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a necromancer, he must decide which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

The Master Necromancer
Class Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Control Undead +1 level
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Animate Dead +1 level
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Touch of Death +1 level
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Imp. Ghoul Touch +1 level
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Skeletal Minion +1 level
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Create undead +1 level
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level
8th +4 +2 +2 +5 Undying +1 level
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Create undead 2/day +1 level
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Create greater undead +1 level

Control Undead: A necromancer may rebuke or command undead as if she were a cleric of the same level.
Animate Dead (Sp): This is a spell-like ability that functions like the spell of the same name. The necromancer may use this ability a number of times per day to his necromancer levels divided by two. He casts animate dead as a sorcerer equal to his necromancer class level.
Touch of Death (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level, a necromancer can channel negative energy directly by burning a spell slot. Using this power channels damaging energies through the caster into a melee touch attack, inflicting 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot. Thus, a 3rd-level spell slot can be converted into a 3d8 touch of death. This is a supernatural ability.
Create Undead (Sp): At 6th level, the necromancer can create more powerful undead minions.
It is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. At 6th level, a necromancer can use this ability once per day, and upon reaching 9th level he may use it twice per day.
Improved Ghoul Touch (Su): Starting at 4th level, a necromancer may paralyze an opponent with a melee touch attack unless a successful Fortitude save is made (DC is equal to 15 plus the necromancer's Charisma modifier, if any). The paralysis lasts 3d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability and can be used three times per day.
Skeletal Minion: A 5th-level Necromancer can acquire an undead minion (a human warrior skeleton). Obtaining this minion takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. This creature is a loyal servant that follows the necromancer's commands and accompanies him on adventures if desired. If the skeletal minion is destroyed, the necromancer suffers no ill effects and may replace it by performing a ceremony identical to the one that allowed him to obtain his first servant. The minion gains power as the necromancer gains levels. The skeleton has a number of Hit Dice equal to the necromancer's class level. Add one-half the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's natural armor bonus. Add one-third of the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's Strength and Dexterity scores. A necromancer with a skeletal minion permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.
Undying (Ex): At 8th level, the necromancer gains the traits of the undead type. He no longer ages or needs to sleep (though he must spend time meditation to regain spells, heal lost hit points and so forth.) He also gains immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromantic effects; and he ignored mind-affecting effects. He is not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain or energy drain. He has no Constitution score and is therefore immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless it affects objects). From that point forward, he uses his Charisma modifier when making Concentration checks. He is not at risk of death from msasive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, he is immediately destroyed. Finally, once becoming undead, the necromancer cannot be effected by raise dead or reincarnate spells or abilities, though ressurection and true ressurection can affect him.
Create Greater Undead (Sp): Upon reaching 10th level, the necromancer can create truly powerful undead creatures such as shadows and wraiths. This ability functions like the spell of the same name and is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. It can be used once per day.

AstralFire
2009-07-07, 09:34 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313

Nhoj
2009-07-07, 09:42 PM
Maybe if you changed some of the abilities to enhance undead minions it could work better. Your repeating quite a few of the necromancy spells. Also at first level I think you should skip adding the additional spell level at first.

Dante & Vergil
2010-02-10, 02:28 PM
The formating of the class should look something like this.


Master Necromancer
Necromancers are spellcasters whose magics manipulate the power of death. In calling upon this power, necromancers risk being consumed by it--until eventually they join the ranks of the undead.
Hit Die: d4

Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Necromancy cannot be a forbidden school.

Class Skills
The necromancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Wis), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Hide(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Move Silently(Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points: 3 + Int Modifier.

The Master Necromancer
{table=head]Class Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Control Undead|+1 level
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Animate Dead|+1 level
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Touch of Death|+1 level
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Imp. Ghoul Touch|+1 level
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Skeletal Minion|+1 level
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Create undead|+1 level
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5||+1 level
8th|+4|+2|+2|+5|Undying|+1 level
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Create undead 2/day|+1 level
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Create greater undead|+1 level[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the necromancer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Necromancers gain no proficiency with weapons or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new necromancer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained al evel in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a necromancer, he must decide which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Control Undead: A necromancer may rebuke or command undead as if she were a cleric of the same level.
Animate Dead (Sp): This is a spell-like ability that functions like the spell of the same name. The necromancer may use this ability a number of times per day to his necromancer levels divided by two. He casts animate dead as a sorcerer equal to his necromancer class level.
Touch of Death (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level, a necromancer can channel negative energy directly by burning a spell slot. Using this power channels damaging energies through the caster into a melee touch attack, inflicting 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot. Thus, a 3rd-level spell slot can be converted into a 3d8 touch of death. This is a supernatural ability.
Create Undead (Sp): At 6th level, the necromancer can create more powerful undead minions.
It is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. At 6th level, a necromancer can use this ability once per day, and upon reaching 9th level he may use it twice per day.
Improved Ghoul Touch (Su): Starting at 4th level, a necromancer may paralyze an opponent with a melee touch attack unless a successful Fortitude save is made (DC is equal to 15 plus the necromancer's Charisma modifier, if any). The paralysis lasts 3d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability and can be used three times per day.
Skeletal Minion: A 5th-level Necromancer can acquire an undead minion (a human warrior skeleton). Obtaining this minion takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. This creature is a loyal servant that follows the necromancer's commands and accompanies him on adventures if desired. If the skeletal minion is destroyed, the necromancer suffers no ill effects and may replace it by performing a ceremony identical to the one that allowed him to obtain his first servant. The minion gains power as the necromancer gains levels. The skeleton has a number of Hit Dice equal to the necromancer's class level. Add one-half the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's natural armor bonus. Add one-third of the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's Strength and Dexterity scores. A necromancer with a skeletal minion permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.
Undying (Ex): At 8th level, the necromancer gains the traits of the undead type. He no longer ages or needs to sleep (though he must spend time meditation to regain spells, heal lost hit points and so forth.) He also gains immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromantic effects; and he ignored mind-affecting effects. He is not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain or energy drain. He has no Constitution score and is therefore immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless it affects objects). From that point forward, he uses his Charisma modifier when making Concentration checks. He is not at risk of death from msasive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, he is immediately destroyed. Finally, once becoming undead, the necromancer cannot be effected by raise dead or reincarnate spells or abilities, though ressurection and true ressurection can affect him.
Create Greater Undead (Sp): Upon reaching 10th level, the necromancer can create truly powerful undead creatures such as shadows and wraiths. This ability functions like the spell of the same name and is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. It can be used once per day.


The class abilities based on the Undead creation spells, should have the caster based on character level, instead of class level.

Hyooz
2010-02-10, 02:31 PM
It seems like all this PrC does is give access to necromancy spells are spell likes?

Dante & Vergil
2010-02-10, 02:36 PM
I think getting those spells as spell likes is good enough for me to take it.:smallwink:

Zom B
2010-02-10, 02:49 PM
(Quoting the formatted version, because it's easier on me)


Control Undead: A necromancer may rebuke or command undead as if she were a cleric of the same level.

How many rebuke attempts does he get per day? What stat is it based on?


Touch of Death (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level, a necromancer can channel negative energy directly by burning a spell slot. Using this power channels damaging energies through the caster into a melee touch attack, inflicting 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot. Thus, a 3rd-level spell slot can be converted into a 3d8 touch of death. This is a supernatural ability.

This ability burns spell slots, but not prepared spells, so it looks like a wizard cannot use this. Also, it says supernatural ability, so D&V, might want to change that.


Improved Ghoul Touch (Su): Starting at 4th level, a necromancer may paralyze an opponent with a melee touch attack unless a successful Fortitude save is made (DC is equal to 15 plus the necromancer's Charisma modifier, if any). The paralysis lasts 3d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability and can be used three times per day.

Holy crud, 3d4 rounds of helplessness? 3 times a day? And it's not limited to humanoids, like the spell? Also, this is based on Charisma, so that's another indicator that this PrC is made more for sorcerers. Nothing wrong with that, it just seems odd flavor-wise.


Skeletal Minion: [...]The skeleton has a number of Hit Dice equal to the necromancer's class level.

Cool, a whole extra party member.


A necromancer with a skeletal minion permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.

So what do you do if you already had one?


Undying (Ex): At 8th level, the necromancer gains the traits of the undead type.

Ah, so you're not really an undead, you just have the traits.


Finally, once becoming undead, the necromancer cannot be effected by raise dead or reincarnate spells or abilities, though ressurection and true ressurection can affect him.

Okay, now I'm confused.

Lin Bayaseda
2010-02-10, 02:51 PM
Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Necromancy cannot be a forbidden school.
As written, a Bard can take this prestige class, but a Cleric cannot. It's strange that a happy-go-lucky bard can dabble in death, but a somber High Priest of Vecna cannot. I'd change the requirements into:

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast at least two Necromancy spells of level 3 or higher.
Feats: Spell Focus (Necromancy)


Holy crud, 3d4 rounds of helplessness?It's no big deal, 90% of the time it'll be just a Hold Monster that requires a touch attack; at that level, he should be able to just cast Hold Monster normally anyway.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-10, 02:56 PM
Also, I think Master Necromancer is sort-of taken by the Master Specialist in Necromancy...

JoshuaZ
2010-02-10, 04:37 PM
Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Necromancy cannot be a forbidden school.

So I can take this knowing zero necromancy? Given the class abilities, I could see a sorcerer or beguiler taking this with little to no necromancy and wanting to increase their effective spell options. That's especially the case given that they get full casting. Maybe require the ability to cast a 3rd level arcane spell from the necromancy school? Or require Spell Focus(necromancy)?




The necromancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Wis), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Hide(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Move Silently(Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points: 3 + Int Modifier.



Why do they get all knowledge skills? Also, the fact that the sorcerer would get more skills and would get more skill points makes this look even more inviting to the sorcerer who isn't that interested in necromancy.



Spells per Day: When a new necromancer level is gained, the character


Please decide whether this class is called the "necromancer" or the "Master Necromancer"



per day as if he had also gained al evel in an arcane spellcasting

Typo.



Control Undead: A necromancer may rebuke or command undead as if she were a cleric of the same level.

Character level or class level? One is useful (indeed useful enough to make a 1 level dip look tempting) the other is very weak.



Animate Dead (Sp): This is a spell-like ability that functions like the spell of the same name. The necromancer may use this ability a number of times per day to his necromancer levels divided by two. He casts animate dead as a sorcerer equal to his necromancer class level.

So I get to animate very weak undead? This makes sense for the sorcerer with minimal interest in necromancy or the beguiler but this doesn't make sense for anyone who cares about necromancy. If I normally cast animate dead, and I then use this, my caster level for this will b e much lower. So I'll actually lose in my total undead controlled.



Touch of Death (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level, a necromancer can channel negative energy directly by burning a spell slot. Using this power channels damaging energies through the caster into a melee touch attack, inflicting 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot. Thus, a 3rd-level spell slot can be converted into a 3d8 touch of death. This is a supernatural ability.

Is this supernatural or spell-like? I see (Sp) but the last line says supernatural. Do I sac the slot when I make the melee attack, as I do, or only after the attack is successful? Needs specifying.



Create Undead (Sp): At 6th level, the necromancer can create more powerful undead minions.
It is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. At 6th level, a necromancer can use this ability once per day, and upon reaching 9th level he may use it twice per day.


Need's wording work. Be explicit that this duplicates the spell of that name.
Well, I suppose this will save a dedicated necromancer small amounts of time and gp, but that's it. I can't actually use this to create anything other than ghouls since Create Undead is tied to the caster level for what I can create. Even after 10 levels in the class, I still just can great ghouls.



Improved Ghoul Touch (Su): Starting at 4th level, a necromancer may paralyze an opponent with a melee touch attack unless a successful Fortitude save is made (DC is equal to 15 plus the necromancer's Charisma modifier, if any). The paralysis lasts 3d4 rounds. This is a supernatural ability and can be used three times per day.

Ok. Out of order abilities aren't fun to read. Also, why is this "Improved Ghoul Touch" if there's no Ghoul Touch ability? I'm also worried that this ability and the negative energy channeling ability could potentially not go well with the fact that I'd be a squishy magic guy using these abilities up close to enemies. I suppose I could use the negative energy ability to heal my undead also but...



Skeletal Minion: A 5th-level Necromancer can acquire an undead minion (a human warrior skeleton). Obtaining this minion takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. This creature is a loyal servant that follows the necromancer's commands and accompanies him on adventures if desired. If the skeletal minion is destroyed, the necromancer suffers no ill effects and may replace it by performing a ceremony identical to the one that allowed him to obtain his first servant. The minion gains power as the necromancer gains levels. The skeleton has a number of Hit Dice equal to the necromancer's class level. Add one-half the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's natural armor bonus. Add one-third of the necromancer's class level to the skeleton's Strength and Dexterity scores. A necromancer with a skeletal minion permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.

This is well written and edited if a bit weak. That's because it is almost identical (except for some minor wording changes) to one of the variant necromancer options from Unearthed Arcana. Unfortunately, this is already a weak option for that. It also seems like you copied and pasted it without thinking through what it was intended to do. This was constructed as a way of replacing the familiar with a more necromancery option. There's no need to have this sort of thing as a high level thing and force you to give up your familiar.



Undying (Ex): At 8th level, the necromancer gains the traits of the undead type.

He becomes that type or gains its traits? Very different. Also, note that for reasons of tradition, fluff, and balance, type changes and the like are usually
at the end of a prestige class not in the middle.



Create Greater Undead (Sp): Upon reaching 10th level, the necromancer can create truly powerful undead creatures such as shadows and wraiths. This ability functions like the spell of the same name and is cast as a sorcerer equal to the necromancer's class level. It can be used once per day.

Same issues as with Create Undead. Maybe make Animate Dead, Create Undead and Create Greater Under all work off character level rather than class level?

Overall, this necromancer is very generic, with little fluff. Even with the modified class abilities, it still seems more tempting to someone who doesn't normally do necromancy than someone who does, which makes it hard to see as a "Master Necromancer"

Milskidasith
2010-02-10, 05:03 PM
Basically, the only benefit of this is that you get necropolitan. Otherwise, all it gives you is SLA necromancy spells later than you normally get them as spells known.

As far as spellcasting PrCs go, it's not bad (since it's free to enter and gives class features and one more skill point) but not as useful as, say, master specialist, or even archmage or something with useful class features.