Final Fight...Too Tough?(3.5)

[evil-frosty]

Well my group has decided to have me make a one shot adventure, and i said i would. I know what i want to do for it and stuff. I am just worried that the final fight is too tough. Here is what will be in it 4 black dragons who are brothers with class levels and varying age categories. Vampire twins one is a warlock the other a rogue. And some greater boneguards, CR 12 undead i made up. In the room there is a chasm with a bridge across it, going right thru the middle. The dimensions of the room are 160 feet wide and 120 feet length wise.

None of this is set in stone and can be changed. The party is made up of the following: 11 level fighter, 11 lvl ftr/pal, 11 clr/ftr, 11 clr/wiz, 10 lvl ranger, 10 lvl ftr (bow specialist), 10 lvl clr/wiz/mt(this guy only has 26 hits, but a lot of magic items). Also i have decided to give them an item that will heal them up to full and restore spells, but i could take this away.

Any suggestions? Advice? Things i should change? Any help would be a appreciated.

[erikun]

So you're throwing a level 11 party up against at least two CR 12 creatures, and another four CR 13+ creatures? I hope they're resourceful.

[Vaynor]

Just three of the CR 12 boneguards would be too much, anything else is just mean. Tone it down a bit.

Use this (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) to gauge encounter levels.

[chiasaur11]

Well, I figure that the bit with the final boss having a gun is a bit irritating, but if you have unlimited continues, Haggar can...

Oh, right. Not that Final Fight.

Well,exact class levels of the baddies and optimization levels of your party would be nice.

[herrhauptmann]

Not knowing the abilities of the characters, OR the NPCs (especially the dragons) I'd say that even with the free recovery item, I'd avoid that fight.

Or get creative and draw some of the enemies out so the party can fight the vampires and boneguard separately from the dragons.

How high is the room, how deep the chasm? Is the ranger 2WF? or Archery?
Unless the Theurge's magic items activate automatically (like healing armor when you go between 0 and -9) all those items won't help him if he dies in the first hit.

[Night Monkey]

Hrm, depends on how you define too tough. I mean, I reckon that at least one of the party members would be able to retreat from that fight with his/her last remaning hp, leaving all the rest for dead, so its not as if it's a guaranteed TPK no matter what the party does.

Seriously, unless the party is enormously optimised, throw the parts of this encounter at the PCs one by one and give them some chance to recover between each.

[evil-frosty]

@herrhauptmann- ranger is 2WF, and the mystic theurge is good at staying away from battle, boots of spider climbing help.

@chiasaur11- Havent decided on class levels for the baddies. And we use mostly core with very few off shoots.

@Vaynor and erikun- The paladin has a sunblade, so average damage for him a round if he hits with all of his attacks is something like 136. Taking out boneguards rather quickly.

None of this is set in stone. This really is my first time DMing and wanted help as I was thinking this might be too tough. And i might be off with the CR of the boneguards, as they are also the first monsters i have created.

[erikun]

Well, I agree with Night Monkey - throw stuff at them in waves. Just dumping everything onto the board in one shot is rather boring, and slow to run through. Having them come out one after another, or boneguards > two dragons > two stronger dragons, will probably keep the tension and excitement in the fight longer.

[Alejandro]

The mystic theurge may have boots of spider climbing, but they will not help him/her get away from 4(!) black dragons who want to kill him/her quickly, thus eliminating a major source of incoming hostile magic. In the dimensions of the room you gave, there is nowhere the mystic theurge can go to get entirely away from four dragons, much less four breath weapons.

Does the chasm occupy most of the room? If so, will the enemies simply let most of the party get out onto the bridge, and then collapse it? After all, four dragons and two vampires (with spells to boot) can tear down or collapse just about any bridge, and all of them can probably fly to avoid falling.

[evil-frosty]

No chasm takes up very little room. And i am getting the vibe to get rid of a few dragons. I can do that. No of this is set in stone, it all can be changed. I really didnt know if this was going to be too tough. We have faced very tough challenges before and came thru relatively fine. So really i just need to practice at DMing

[Alejandro]

Why not try this: since there are 7 PCs, do something to force them into two or even three seperate groups. Then throw a dragon at one group, a vampire at another, and the boneguards at the third.

They may be used to having a large team with large group tactics, and this will challenge them to improvise and form new tactics in short order.

[evil-frosty]

That sounds like fun. But do you know of any good easy ways to get them into separate groups?

[Alejandro]

Falling rocks, walls of force, illusions, doorways that are warded to only allow certain races to pass, charm/dominate spells, come to mind off the top of my head.

[Dark Herald]

Three runes that need to be touched simultaneously.

Yeah, that's pretty high CR.

[Myrmex]

The lack of any full casters makes me say that this fight will probably be too tough. Enervate spam could probably soak a Dragon, while liberal use of solid fogs could keep the undead back. That way, only a few opponents would be exposed at a time while they get whittled down by the melee/damage dealers.

Unless the party has a good idea of what they're going to be up against, and how to handle it, it'll likely be a wipe. 26 HP is going down after the dragons breathe.

[Kaiyanwang]

Split the encounters.

Just an idea: split them but have them very near in time. Insert in the plot an ally, such some good spirit or fey.

Then have the fey appear between the two encounters, buff/heal and then go away (of course, it should be managed to have sense plot wise).

Some players are annoyed by allies NPCs, but it generally happens if the NPC smash enemies in place of them. If the NPC helps them indirectly without world shattering powers, you are generally fine.

[Korivan]

Just three of the CR 12 boneguards would be too much, anything else is just mean. Tone it down a bit.

Use this (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) to gauge encounter levels.

is there a downloadable version of that somewhere?

[Anxe]

Your players are gonna get murdered, but it looks like a fun encounter.

[evil-frosty]

So how bout this one dragon without class levels and then the 2 vampires. Also just some minions, because you need to have minions. What would be a good age category for the dragon? I know what i am going to do with the vamps.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

One fun way to split a party is a Teleport Trap. Party walks thorough a square. You roll 1d6/2 to determine where they end up.

[Darkfire]

is there a downloadable version of that somewhere?
You were looking at it.

If you're using Firefox 3.5, just save it as Web Page, Complete so you snag all the .js (for actual functions) and .css files (for the layout) plus images and it'll run fine as a standalone.

Alternatively, you only really need to save the following files to the same directory:
http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm
http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/scripts/encounterCalculator.js

With this second method, you will probably need to alter the following line (#12) in the .htm file

<script type="text/javascript" src="/scripts/encounterCalculator.js"></script>

to

<script type="text/javascript" src="/encounterCalculator.js"></script>

Edit: It's under the Creative Commons by-nc-sa License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/) so you're okay to do this as long as you stick to the conditions.

[Anxe]

I'd make the Dragon Juvenile. That'd probably work.