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View Full Version : Question about the positive energy plane (3.5)



Harperfan7
2009-07-08, 02:01 AM
Does it heal you or give you temporary hp? Either way, how much?

Kylarra
2009-07-08, 02:09 AM
Both at 5.


Positive Energy Plane

The Positive Energy Plane has no surface and is akin to the Elemental Plane of Air with its wide-open nature. However, every bit of this plane glows brightly with innate power. This power is dangerous to mortal forms, which are not made to handle it. Despite the beneficial effects of the plane, it is one of the most hostile of the Inner Planes. An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as positive energy is force-fed into her. Then, her mortal frame unable to contain that power, she immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova. Visits to the Positive Energy Plane are brief, and even then travelers must be heavily protected.

The Positive Energy Plane has the following traits.

* Subjective directional gravity.
* Major positive-dominant. Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited.
* Enhanced magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are maximized (as if the Maximize Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don’t require higher-level slots). Spells and spell-like abilities that are already maximized are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use positive energy, such as turning and destroying undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. (Undead are almost impossible to find on this plane, however.)
* Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy (including inflict spells) are impeded.



Positive-Dominant

An abundance of life characterizes planes with this trait. The two kinds of positive-dominant traits are minor positive-dominant and major positive-dominant. A minor positive-dominant plane is a riotous explosion of life in all its forms. Colors are brighter, fires are hotter, noises are louder, and sensations are more intense as a result of the positive energy swirling through the plane. All individuals in a positive-dominant plane gain fast healing 2 as an extraordinary ability.

Major positive-dominant planes go even further. A creature on a major positive-dominant plane must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being blinded for 10 rounds by the brilliance of the surroundings. Simply being on the plane grants fast healing 5 as an extraordinary ability. In addition, those at full hit points gain 5 additional temporary hit points per round. These temporary hit points fade 1d20 rounds after the creature leaves the major positive-dominant plane. However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.

Belobog
2009-07-08, 02:10 AM
As I understand it, the Positive Energy Plane has big clumps of positive energy that are constantly reforming and exploding. Think like a model of outer space. When these clumps explode, they shed positive energy all over everything in their path, granting temporary hp based on the explosion (should be a chart somewhere in the DMG).

The big danger here is taking too much temporary hp at once; if a character has twice the hp total in temp hp, they explode. Since stars seem to be going off all the time, it's a big problem.

Edit: Ninja'd and proven wrong. Could have sworn there was something about exploding star things in there...

Ravens_cry
2009-07-08, 02:12 AM
A
Edit: Ninja'd and proven wrong. Could have sworn there was something about exploding star things in there...The exploding star thing is what happens to you when you stay too long.

Guancyto
2009-07-08, 02:14 AM
The exploding star thing is what happens to you when you stay too long.

Fortunately it's not hard to mitigate. You just have to keep shivving yourself in the side every round!

Kylarra
2009-07-08, 02:15 AM
Fortunately it's not hard to mitigate. You just have to keep shivving yourself in the side every round!

Stop hitting yourself! :smallamused:

Ravens_cry
2009-07-08, 02:17 AM
Fortunately it's not hard to mitigate. You just have to keep shivving yourself in the side every round! Yes, but that uses up your most valuable resource as a character, available actions.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 04:32 AM
DC 20 fort saves are not too hard even at mid level unless your con is really low.
There are so many ways to boost fort saves it isn't funny.

Another alternative is to hit yourself with a spell or poison that deals 5 damage per round. Are there any so precise though?

Hmm I wonder if there is a spell that lets you involuntarily teleport someone to the positive energy plane. Great way to destroy major undead. lol.

Gerion
2009-07-08, 04:40 AM
Hmm I wonder if there is a spell that lets you involuntarily teleport someone to the positive energy plane. Great way to destroy major undead. lol.

Greater Glyph of Warding (spellstoring) planeshift.
its realy a good way to assasinate someone, i tryed it^^

olentu
2009-07-08, 04:54 AM
I think undead do rather well on the positive energy plane.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-08, 04:57 AM
I think undead do rather well on the positive energy plane.

N...no they don't. They take 5 damage per round and then die.

You are in fact so startlingly wrong I cant get my head around why anyone would ever think that.

ZeroNumerous
2009-07-08, 04:58 AM
Hmm I wonder if there is a spell that lets you involuntarily teleport someone to the positive energy plane. Great way to destroy major undead. lol.

Plane Shift allows a Will Save if they're not willing. And no, undead are immune to the fort save since it doesn't affect objects and as such will have NI Temp HP when sent to the PEP.

olentu
2009-07-08, 05:14 AM
N...no they don't. They take 5 damage per round and then die.

You are in fact so startlingly wrong I cant get my head around why anyone would ever think that.

Or alternatively they gain fast healing 5 and then 5 temp HP per round and are immune to exploding. I will however admit that I am just going on what was posted and what I remember of the various plane focused splatbooks and so may be misremembering what one of the splats said.

DMfromTheAbyss
2009-07-08, 05:18 AM
Um.. except it does affect objects doesn't it.. kinda why there's nothing but energy there... except the mentioned pockets of habitation, which would still kill an undead at 2 dmg/rd.

So yeah that and the negative energy being "restricted" probably doesn't help them much either.

At least according to Fluff/common sense.

BobVosh
2009-07-08, 05:20 AM
N...no they don't. They take 5 damage per round and then die.

You are in fact so startlingly wrong I cant get my head around why anyone would ever think that.


Or alternatively they gain fast healing 5 and then 5 temp HP per round and are immune to exploding. I will however admit that I am just going on what was posted and what I remember of the various plane focused splatbooks and so may be misremembering what one of the splats said.


And no, undead are immune to the fort save since it doesn't affect objects and as such will have NI Temp HP when sent to the PEP.

Out of order quotes, FTW! Anyway, they get fast healing 5. This works for undead. Then they get 2x thier normal HP in temp hp, and keep climbing. Never having to make a fort save vs death by awesome.

It is one of the stupid things of RAW vs RAI.

Zen Master
2009-07-08, 05:33 AM
Does it heal you or give you temporary hp? Either way, how much?

My (very much personal) opinion is that it does neither. As usual, the designers got it wrong, and what it does is: It kills you.

The negative energy plane sucks all vestiges of energy - among them life force - out of you. And you die.

The positive energy plane bombards you with all forms of energy - among them life force. And you die.

Stepping onto the positive energy plane is pretty much like standing in the focus of a giant laser beam. You're pretty much toast unless you have pretty solid protection.

daggaz
2009-07-08, 05:43 AM
Plane Shift allows a Will Save if they're not willing. And no, undead are immune to the fort save since it doesn't affect objects and as such will have NI Temp HP when sent to the PEP.

They dont take the fort save in any case, as they never gain hitpoints from being on the plane. Positive energy deals damage to all undead, so unless they have some kind of way to surpass 5hps a round of damage, they eventually die.

@Acromos : Thats a houserule. One that I can see the fluff for, but then, it sure makes it a lot harder to visit those populated islands, hmm?

BobVosh
2009-07-08, 05:50 AM
They dont take the fort save in any case, as they never gain hitpoints from being on the plane. Positive energy deals damage to all undead, so unless they have some kind of way to surpass 5hps a round of damage, they eventually die.

Sure would suck if they got some positive energy damage then, right? Too bad all the sunny, relaxing undead-friendly plane does is grant fast healing 5. Which benefits the undead. Then temporary hits points. Which is also kind to them.

*edit to prevent double posting rules*

Undead do well on the negative energy plane, but the positive energy plane kills them. I'm not sure of the exact rules, but they probably treat the NEP the same way as living creatures treat the PEP, and vice versa.

That is how the fluff reads (RAI). Mechanics (RAW) is that you get fast healing 5. Which is helpful to undead.

I don't remember (and SRD is blocked at work) exactly how the NEP works, but I think it is useful to undead as well. Does negative energy damage IIRC.

AvatarZero
2009-07-08, 05:57 AM
Undead do well on the negative energy plane, but the positive energy plane kills them. I'm not sure of the exact rules, but they probably treat the NEP the same way as living creatures treat the PEP, and vice versa.

olentu
2009-07-08, 06:08 AM
Here you go


NEGATIVE ENERGY PLANE
To an observer, there’s little to see on the Negative Energy Plane. It is a dark, empty place, an eternal pit where a traveler can fall until the plane itself steals away all light and life. The Negative Energy Plane is the most hostile of the Inner Planes, and the most uncaring and intolerant of life. Only creatures immune to its life-draining energies can survive there.
The Negative Energy Plane has the following traits.
• Subjective directional gravity.
• Major negative-dominant. Some areas within the plane have only the minor negative-dominant trait, and these islands tend to be inhabited.
• Enhanced magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy are maximized (as if the Maximize Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don’t require higher-level slots). Spells and spell-like abilities that are already maximized are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use negative energy, such as rebuking and controlling undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected.
• Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are impeded. Characters on this plane take a –10 penalty on Fortitude saving throws made to remove negative levels bestowed by an energy drain attack.
Random Encounters: Because the Negative Energy Plane is virtually devoid of creatures, random encounters on the plane are exceedingly rare.



Negative-Dominant: Planes with this trait are vast, empty reaches that suck the life out of travelers who cross them. They tend to be lonely, haunted planes, drained of color and filled with winds bearing the soft moans of those who died within them. As with positive-dominant planes, negative-dominant planes can be either minor or major. On minor negative-dominant planes, living creatures take 1d6 points of damage per round. At 0 hit points or lower, they crumble into ash.
Major negative-dominant planes are even more severe. Each round, those within must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or gain a negative level. A creature whose negative levels equal its current levels or Hit Dice is slain, becoming a wraith. The death ward spell protects a traveler from the damage and energy drain of a negative-dominant plane.

BobVosh
2009-07-08, 06:20 AM
Ah, then undead completely ignore it. All it does is buff thier "heal" spells, and help those with negative level drains.



That... makes so little sense to me...

So casting Cure Light Wounds on an undead is worse (for the undead) than completely immersing them in endless positive energy on the positive energy plane?

Gotta love WotC. :P

Would it humor you to think that on the PEP your spell is maximized, and then they heal 5? Which means they take pretty much average damage.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 06:22 AM
That... makes so little sense to me...

So casting Cure Light Wounds on an undead is worse (for the undead) than completely immersing them in endless positive energy on the positive energy plane?

Gotta love WotC. :P

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-08, 06:29 AM
My (very much personal) opinion is that it does neither. As usual, the designers got it wrong, and what it does is: It kills you.

The negative energy plane sucks all vestiges of energy - among them life force - out of you. And you die.

The positive energy plane bombards you with all forms of energy - among them life force. And you die.

Stepping onto the positive energy plane is pretty much like standing in the focus of a giant laser beam. You're pretty much toast unless you have pretty solid protection.

That's not what the Positive Energy Plane is. It's the plane where positive energy - not just 'energy' - comes from! Positive Energy is "life force" and only "life force"!

You, sir, are the one who has it wrong.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-08, 06:40 AM
Yeah, I seem to recall hearing something about the Positive Energy Plane being an extra safe place for a lich to store their phylactery, since they're undead they're immune to that fort save, but adventurers will just explode.

I also recall seeing a neat BBEG build around here that involved using some class or another to emulate the effects of a plane and creating a positive energy plane so that the adventurers would be healed to death.

"Now Starfox, witness the fury as I unleash the WATERS OF LIFE!"

Zen Master
2009-07-08, 07:12 AM
That's not what the Positive Energy Plane is. It's the plane where positive energy - not just 'energy' - comes from! Positive Energy is "life force" and only "life force"!

You, sir, are the one who has it wrong.

No - I'm not. Here's what: There is no such thing as a positive energy plane. There are no other planes of existance, period. What you are referring to is what it says in a book I've already made it quite plain I don't give a damn about.

At any rate, lets use light as an analogy. Light is good, it makes plants grow, warms the globe above levels where oxygen and so on freeze, it vitalises everything it touches.

However, laser is also just light. Laser will quite happily kill you.

So, similarly, since 'positive energy' is an entirely fictional thing, there is absolutely nothing to stop it from acting (fictionally) in the exact same way.

And further, take the elemental plane of fire. It's not the elemental plane of reasonably warm. It could be - it could be a place of relative heat, but it isn't. It is, in fact, nothing but a giant bloody furnace of hot, burning magma. Similarly, I portray the positive energy plane as a place of positive energy strong enough to consume you. To be slightly more specific, in my view you are absorbed, and become nothing but positive energy yourself.

Now as I stated in my original post, this is entirely personal. My view. You can have your - I'll stick with mine.

In the meantime, please don't tell me I'm wrong when I'm clearly stating opinion.

mregecko
2009-07-08, 08:40 AM
My favorite way of counteracting the positive energy plane...

5 caltrops in your boots.

Done! :-)

As for the half movement speed, Freedom of Movement can pretty easily alleviate that any any levels where you should be plane hopping.

-- Gecko

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-08, 10:08 AM
My favorite way of counteracting the positive energy plane...

5 caltrops in your boots.

Done! :-)

As for the half movement speed, Freedom of Movement can pretty easily alleviate that any any levels where you should be plane hopping.

-- Gecko

Priceless.

SirKazum
2009-07-08, 11:14 AM
I think the main problem here (regarding undead in the PEP/NEP) consists of badly-written rules. As written, being in the PEP grants EVERYONE (no distinction, not even for undead, nada) fast healing 5. I invite all who disagree to go back to the SRD quote above, read it, and tell me where does it say it doesn't apply to undead, or that this fast healing is a cure effect or anything else that uses positive energy and would be reversed on undead. And in the NEP, it just says living creatures (no word on undead) get 1d6 damage per round - please also note the conspicuous absence of "negative energy" on that damage expression. So, undead would be simply not affected either way (for good or ill) since they're not living. So, yeah - by RAW, it *IS* indeed much more harmful for, say, a vampire to receive CLW than to be thrown deep into a metaphorical sea of positive energy - the latter would actually be good for the vampire's "health", as it were. Maybe this belongs in the "rules that don't make sense" thread...

Yes, I agree, that doesn't make any friggin' sense at all, which is why most people filter it through RAI and think the book says the PEP harms undead, when that's not really the case. So, yes, in any campaign I DM, you had better expect houserules that make the PEP's healing a positive energy effect, and the NEP's damage negative energy, like Inflict. (Edit: I'd also state that the PEP's fast healing applies only to living creatures, as I don't like the idea of constructs being healed there when Cure spells can't do that. Maybe an additional line about the effect on negative-energy creatures would be in order, in this case.) I'm just saying, that's not what the book (or SRD, in this case) says. Just crappy rules writing on the WotC's part, IMO.

And I've got another suggestion for protecting yourself from the PEP's harmful effects... you can set yourself on fire. Sure, 1d6 per round averages to less than what you gain, but at least you don't spend any actions, not to mention it's a rather entertaining solution :smalltongue:

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 11:39 AM
And I've got another suggestion for protecting yourself from the PEP's harmful effects... you can set yourself on fire. Sure, 1d6 per round averages to less than what you gain, but at least you don't spend any actions, not to mention it's a rather entertaining solution :smalltongue:

Self immolation: prevents ninjas AND explosions!

Blackfang108
2009-07-08, 12:15 PM
My favorite way of counteracting the positive energy plane...

5 caltrops in your boots.

Done! :-)

As for the half movement speed, Freedom of Movement can pretty easily alleviate that any any levels where you should be plane hopping.

-- Gecko

Having a good Autohypnosis Check works, too. (DC 18 to Ignore the movement penalty. You still take the damage.)

Harperfan7
2009-07-08, 10:10 PM
"An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as positive energy is force-fed into her."

Positive Energy: A white, luminous energy that originates on the Positive Material Plane. In general, positive energy heals the living and hurts undead creatures.

Positive Energy Plane: The Inner Plane from which positive energy originates.


Note that the positive energy description says that it originates on the positive material plane, not the positive energy plane. However, I still think it's pretty obvious that undead are supposed to die on the PEP, but leave it to wizards to be just unclear enough to cause countless hours of arguing over something that should be clear cut.

arguskos
2009-07-08, 10:28 PM
Positive Energy: A white, luminous energy that originates on the Positive Material Plane. In general, positive energy heals the living and hurts undead creatures.

Note that the positive energy description says that it originates on the positive material plane, not the positive energy plane. However, I still think it's pretty obvious that undead are supposed to die on the PEP, but leave it to wizards to be just unclear enough to cause countless hours of arguing over something that should be clear cut.
Considering that a "Positive Material Plane" has never before or since been mentioned, we can reasonably call that one a typo and move on.

Random832
2009-07-08, 10:53 PM
Given that all the fluff for cure spells, turn undead, etc, say they use positive energy, it seems beyond obvious that positive energy (as found on the positive energy plane) actually reduces undead HP total and kills them normally.

One would assume that the undead would get the "swelling up and explodey" effect on the negative energy plane.

Ravens_cry
2009-07-08, 11:00 PM
Given that all the fluff for cure spells, turn undead, etc, say they use positive energy, it seems beyond obvious that positive energy (as found on the positive energy plane) actually reduces undead HP total and kills them normally.

One would assume that the undead would get the "swelling up and explodey" effect on the negative energy plane.
Certainly fits my 'theory' positive/negative energy been alternate elan vitals, vital forces that is.

SirKazum
2009-07-09, 05:02 PM
Given that all the fluff for cure spells, turn undead, etc, say they use positive energy, it seems beyond obvious that positive energy (as found on the positive energy plane) actually reduces undead HP total and kills them normally.

One would assume that the undead would get the "swelling up and explodey" effect on the negative energy plane.

The whole point is - it *is* obvious, yes, when using a little logic. However, it's *not* what's in the books, so, by pure RAW, undead get healing and temporary HP in the Positive Energy Plane and don't even explode because they're immune to most Fort effects. Yeah, IMO you'd have to be a pretty stupid DM to let that happen, but it's just what's written.

The Rose Dragon
2009-07-09, 05:06 PM
One would assume that the undead would get the "swelling up and explodey" effect on the negative energy plane.

Except for all the undead living in Negative Energy Plane?

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-09, 05:16 PM
Given that all the fluff for cure spells, turn undead, etc, say they use positive energy, it seems beyond obvious that positive energy (as found on the positive energy plane) actually reduces undead HP total and kills them normally.

One would assume that the undead would get the "swelling up and explodey" effect on the negative energy plane.

But the negative energy plane is a place of nothingness that is so absolute as to devour even its own energy type. It doesn't pump energy into its inhabitants. Negative-dominant planes "are vast, empty reaches that suck the life out of travelers who cross them."

Undead simply have nothing to absorb.

obnoxious
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