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Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 02:53 AM
I was wondering about something. in this campaign I'm running my players are going to be facing an evil god or a demon prince. this is one that they will kill and be gone forever. the only players I have that are probably going to last through the campaign are

a tiefling warlock. (fey pact)
a hobgoblin ranger
some fighter. he hasn't played in a bit.

now there are a couple others that may live through the campaign i they don't greatly annoy me, or my other players too much, and force me to kill them

a human wizard.
a dragonborn rogue.
and another fighter type. he died in the dungeon and will come back as something else in the next town.

which of the demon lords/ evil gods should I make them face? this excludes Tiamat or plot reasons. this is also assuming level 30 characters. do I need to post more info for the decision?

-Cor-
2009-07-08, 03:26 AM
Just look at what's available.

Orcus is statted out pretty well in the MM1... looks like certain death.

If you have the Manual of the Planes a few other Demons/Devils are statted out there... Baphomet for one... a few others.

I think the MotP ones you'd have to add in some henchmen and minions to make it deadly enough for level 30 players.

I have no idea what the Big Bad in the MM2 is...

My initial impression tho' is Level 30?... Really?...

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 03:34 AM
if that's too high I can change it. I just think fighting anything that's five levels ahead of you is suicide.

the big bad of MM2 is demogorgon. looks kind of stupid honestly.

I'll take a look at manual of the planes. the pary's only level 3 right now anyway.

Quietus
2009-07-08, 04:22 AM
if that's too high I can change it. I just think fighting anything that's five levels ahead of you is suicide.

the big bad of MM2 is demogorgon. looks kind of stupid honestly.

I'll take a look at manual of the planes. the pary's only level 3 right now anyway.

Demogorgon can look either stupid or terrifying, depending on how you describe him. If you focus on the goofy "two baboon head" bit, sure, he looks stupid. But try something more along the lines of :

"You stand with the forest at your back, facing a tall cliff, each wave crashing against it and sending up a spray of water. Demons, more numerous than the water droplets being thrownn into the air, are splayed out between you and the cliff, climbing over each other in a desperate bid to be the first to reach your party. The sounds of hungry gibbering inform you that more demons are making their way through the trees behind you, as well.

Abruptly, the sound of an otherworldly howl sends a chill down your spine, and you can see four thick tentacles reach up from the water, grabbing hold of the edge of the cliff, and pulling a creature up from the depths. As it crests, you can see the beast's two feral heads, lips pulled back as it issues another howl, spittle being thrown against you even from <x> feet away. Its broad, thickly muscled arms and chest gives the clear impression that whatever this creature is, you don't ever want to be at the brunt of its strikes - it doesn't seem likely you can avoid that, however, as it pushes hordes of demons out of its way, advancing toward you with inhuman quickness on scaled legs, its hatred and lust for destruction a palpable force permeating the air."


Just a quick thing off the top of my head; Should probably emphasize Demogorgon's sheer physical size, as well, but hell - no matter how you look at it, that description would be more terrifying than goofy to me as a player.

Mando Knight
2009-07-08, 11:40 AM
Maybe Vecna. No, definitely Vecna. They don't have any Radiant powers. :smallamused:

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 12:35 PM
Maybe Vecna. No, definitely Vecna. They don't have any Radiant powers. :smallamused:

one of the party I allowed to be undead though so Vecna's aura heals him rather than harms him:smallamused:

this was really only for flavor but he IS still undead.

and if they go up againt vecna won't they die due to that ridiculous aura?

Burley
2009-07-08, 01:18 PM
Well... Yeah. Of course they'll die. It's level 30! What else are they gonna do? Keep playing? C'mon.
Be realistic and kill them with the most unrealistic thing possible.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-07-08, 01:30 PM
the only players I have that are probably going to last through the campaign are [list of winners]

now there are a couple others that may live through the campaign i they don't greatly annoy me, or my other players too much, and force me to kill them [list of losers]

which of the demon lords/ evil gods should I make them face? this excludes Tiamat or plot reasons. this is also assuming level 30 characters. do I need to post more info for the decision?Who cares which of the demon lords/ evil gods they will face? The real question here is why anyone would want to play in a game where the GM has pre-decided the winners and the losers. What the heck is up with that? You don't need to post more information, you just need an attitude adjustment before you play the GM.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 02:01 PM
I have a feeling they'll live because they're the most mature. I'm not making it so the encounters can't kill them. one person has already died when facing a level appropriate encounter. I do not hold back because I want my players to live. I may be new at DMing but I'm not stupid enough to make that mistake or several others even experienced DMs make.

Mando Knight
2009-07-08, 02:29 PM
one of the party I allowed to be undead though so Vecna's aura heals him rather than harms him:smallamused:

this was really only for flavor but he IS still undead.

and if they go up againt vecna won't they die due to that ridiculous aura?

So you've got an undead in the party. So he's got a bit of Necrotic Resistance. Vecna's got 34 Intelligence and Wisdom, as well as being the only undead deity. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the undead player. He'll hammer him with Banish to the Dread Realm, then teleport away so he can deny him healing while the melee guys decide to kill themselves on his aura.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 02:31 PM
So you've got an undead in the party. So he's got a bit of Necrotic Resistance. Vecna's got 34 Intelligence and Wisdom, as well as being the only undead deity. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the undead player. He'll hammer him with Banish to the Dread Realm, then teleport away so he can deny him healing while the melee guys decide to kill themselves on his aura.

true. post too short

Gralamin
2009-07-08, 02:40 PM
Vecna, when played to his appropiate intelligence (Well, nearly anyway, I doubt anyone has 34 Intelligence here :smalltongue:) is a truly terrifying enemy. He has the Strongest undead with the most diverse abilities available under his direct command. They will fight as a group, using his leader skills to the fullest. He will know the Players abilities, and have ways to counter them set up (For example, Have a Charge based build? A Trap that drops a wall around someone when they charge, causing them to hit it and waste their action. Or a Trap that teleports them to somewhere they can't continue their charge from, etc.). He will also notice if anyone has the Sword of Kas, or if his hand, Eye, or Heart has been destroyed. If your fighting Vecna, your probably doing it on his terms.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 03:05 PM
is there actually any way to beat Vecna? if your party is a completely living one the most HP they can have is 225 I believe. add that to the fact he can do fifty damage per turn WITHOUT his mooks and everybody in said party will die in five turns.

Mando Knight
2009-07-08, 03:10 PM
Get a party of Revenants (Dragon #376), and make them all Divine characters. This way, they'll throw out Radiant damage like nobody's business and heal in Vecna's aura.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 03:12 PM
Get a party of Revenants (Dragon #376), and make them all Divine characters. This way, they'll throw out Radiant damage like nobody's business and heal in Vecna's aura.

I don't have DDI or dragon magazine unfortunately

Gralamin
2009-07-08, 03:30 PM
is there actually any way to beat Vecna? if your party is a completely living one the most HP they can have is 225 I believe. add that to the fact he can do fifty damage per turn WITHOUT his mooks and everybody in said party will die in five turns.

I honestly haven't tried, but Tiamat can at least take them out. Also Hint: You cannot manage to kill Tiamat with out a huge amount of cheese.

Mystic Muse
2009-07-08, 09:35 PM
I honestly haven't tried, but Tiamat can at least take them out. Also Hint: You cannot manage to kill Tiamat with out a huge amount of cheese.

in what way?