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View Full Version : WFRP 3 - GW & FFG to 'fix' what isn't broken



bosssmiley
2009-07-08, 04:58 AM
WFRP 3
A couple of weeks ago, our regular roleplaying group was privileged enough to playtest 3rd Edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The guys from Fantasy Flight Games were over at Games Workshop HQ, and Jay Little very kindly did a show and tell for us over at Alessio Cavatore’s house, where we saw how much the game has changed from its previous incarnation. Our gaming group has been going for some time and we were all interested to see what was new with WFRP, since we’d playtested the previous edition also. It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I’ve played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural. Likewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we’d rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

By the time we’d despatched the goblins and rescued the coachman, we didn’t have much time left to play out the more interpersonal encounters of the intro game, but we’d already gotten our heads around the system and were already looking to develop our characters – which is a good sign in any playtest. Overall, I really liked the changes to the game, and it makes a nice change from sitting with my Players Handbook and a grubby character sheet. I’m liking what Jay has done with the game, and there’s a clear desire to make it fit properly with the Warhammer World, where a lot of the previous edition’s books, with the best will in the world, just didn’t.

source (http://www.graham-mcneill.com/gmblog/PermaLink,guid,24ed7843-8f78-48b7-a2cc-507afc907eab.aspx)

Dice pools?
Ability cards?
"a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game"?
"a clear desire to make it fit properly with the [IP]" That all sounds depressingly familiar. :smallannoyed:

Oslecamo
2009-07-08, 05:21 AM
Hey, with all due respect to GW, what was the last time they actually did something original?:smalltongue:

Well, what they lack in originality, they normally make up with the IT'S OVER 9000!!! factor, so we can at least hope high level powers abilities will actually feel like high level abilities.

Plus we'll probably get fancy stuff like chainsaw crossbows and spiked dragon bone swords.

Morty
2009-07-08, 07:42 AM
Ability cards? Action cards? Dice pools? What the hell? The thing I liked about WFRP 2nd edition was that all it took was a character sheet and a couple of d10s and everything was simple, a refreshing break from rules-heavy D&D. Making it more similiar to a board game also sounds pretty terrible, not to mention that "fitting properly with the Warhammer World" is likely to mean making it look more like the WFB, which reaches D&D's levels of absurdity and character power.:smallannoyed:
Oh, well. Good to see something's happening to Warhammer Fantasy RPG, it never got nearly enough attention. And maybe those rumors don't mean what I think they mean and we'll get WFRP with better mechanics that doesn't fall apart quite so often. Or maybe they'll decide 2nd editon WFRP isn't kewl enough and they'll add a draconic race as a PC choice.

Matthew
2009-07-08, 02:58 PM
Oh for ****'s sake! :smallyuk:

Swordguy
2009-07-08, 04:49 PM
It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I’ve played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural.

Dammit. Will somebody PLEASE burn down the GW offices or something? WFRP2e is about the perfect blend of grittyness, over-the-top-ness, and simplicy that one could ask for in a Warhammer based RPG, and they're gonna ****ing copy D&D4e's schtick? That's exactly the wrong way to go - they couldn't shoot themselves in the foot any better if they put Loren Greenwood (http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/?doc=CEO) in charge of the project! :smallfurious:



At least saving money for CGL's battleTech products and Mechwarrior 5 video game will be easy now - nobody's releasing RPGs that I want to buy...

Doc Roc
2009-07-08, 04:55 PM
Has it ever come up that I hate only one gaming company? Videogame companies included.

I hate Games Workshop. For this reason. Everything they do is engineered around a philosophy of maximal breaking change to insure repeat purchase. :S

NPCMook
2009-07-08, 04:57 PM
Sometimes this can be a good thing, anyone really want a repeat of Overwatch in Warhammer 40K? I don't.

I say hold your opinions till we see the final product.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-08, 05:56 PM
If WFRP 2nd edition is that perfect, why both making small changes? If it's such a perfect product, there's only really two options.

Don't update it, at all. Just leave it be, for people to use as-is.

OR

Do something as different as possible whilst still staying true to the underlying IP.

The second aproach leaves those who prefer the old with 2nd edition, but also gives you a new product to sell, and potentially new customers. By having them finally release a new WFRP, you are only gaining things. You can always ignore it, if you prefer. *shrug*

Matthew
2009-07-08, 06:15 PM
Sometimes this can be a good thing, anyone really want a repeat of Overwatch in Warhammer 40K? I don't.

I say hold your opinions till we see the final product.

Overwatch in first edition? Sure, that was a good rule.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-08, 08:59 PM
Do something as different as possible whilst still staying true to the underlying IP.

The second aproach leaves those who prefer the old with 2nd edition, but also gives you a new product to sell, and potentially new customers. By having them finally release a new WFRP, you are only gaining things. You can always ignore it, if you prefer. *shrug*

That's what WotC tried to do with 4e--change it just enough to get new people while leaving the older edition folks the option to keep doing what they're doing.

Since D&D folks took this for the considerate gesture it was, kindly went their own ways, and embraced a mutual love for the game as a whole while agreeing to disagree over edition preferences, I'm sure the WFRP change will go over just as well.

:smallamused:

Swordguy
2009-07-09, 01:04 AM
That's what WotC tried to do with 4e--change it just enough to get new people while leaving the older edition folks the option to keep doing what they're doing.

Since D&D folks took this for the considerate gesture it was, kindly went their own ways, and embraced a mutual love for the game as a whole while agreeing to disagree over edition preferences, I'm sure the WFRP change will go over just as well.

:smallamused:

Dude, my shoes. You dripped sarcasm all over them. :smallamused:

Oslecamo
2009-07-09, 10:08 AM
Since D&D folks took this for the considerate gesture it was, kindly went their own ways, and embraced a mutual love for the game as a whole while agreeing to disagree over edition preferences, I'm sure the WFRP change will go over just as well.

:smallamused:

Blasphemy! Everybody knows that only the worst scum of the Earth dares to play the worst RPG of all times, D&D! (F.A.T.A.L. doesn't count because it isn't an RPG)

All other RPGs are played only by genial, creative and open minded people who would never never fall in flame wars and are capable of fixing any problem their RPGs may have with the power of friendship and love, wich, as we all know, doesn't worck in D&D for some obscure reason WOTC printing the books with the blood and skin of angel babies.

Thus the WRFP change will magically and perfectly fuse itself with all other non D&D RPGs, and everybody will stay completely happy and satisfied, whitout any kind of disagreements, because disagreements only exist in hellspawned D&D.

Aedilred
2009-07-09, 10:33 AM
WFRP2 isn't perfect, but it's not massively broken either. There's no mechanical need for a new edition, just a few tweaks and perhaps the errata to be put into print and distributed more obviously.

However, the consensus among many of the fans is that the existing sourcebooks have got most of the bases covered. The areas which new sourcebooks could cover would be of limited interest and not enough to re-spark sales of the game. Relaunching completely with a new, non-backwards-compatible system is probably the only way that FFG think they can turn a profit.

That doesn't mean I'm happy about it. I like WFRP2, and would continue to buy any material they released for it as long as it was of the quality generally maintained so far. I'm not really interested in buying a new game. That said, that may factor into their decision to relaunch. WFRP2 always had the shadow of the v1 players hanging over it, and the chances are that they'll all bugger off in disgust at this point leaving WFRP3 free from the influence of old grognards.

I'm also deeply sceptical of the suggestion that some of the older books didn't fit all that well into the background. With only two exceptions, all the v2 books fitted fine into the background and in fact were a massive improvement over the half-baked stuff in the army books. That makes me fear over what sort of mickey-mouse nonsense the new books are going to feature.

In any case, if their objective is to produce a new game for new players, why not continue to produce material for the very good game they already have?

Morty
2009-07-09, 10:38 AM
There're certainly things that could be fixed in WFRP 2nd edition. Like the fact that a combat between two people with WS 31 can take ages and dozens of rolls to resolve. But by the looks of it, they're going to turn the system inside-out. Sure, there is a possibility that it'll be good, old Warhammer with different, possibly better mechanics, but I somehow doubt it. I'm especially bothered by "making it fit into the Warhammer world". There are a lot of things present in WFB I wouldn't want to see in WFRP.

misterk
2009-07-09, 11:35 AM
Yeah the one thing I might change about WFRP would be to make the combat snappier and a little more tactical. It's a troubleseome thing to change, as the system works rather well as is

Aedilred
2009-07-09, 11:59 AM
I concur that the combat needs to be snappier, but more tactical? In my experience the more tactical combat gets, the more it gets bogged down as players endlessly deliberate the merits of the options available.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-09, 12:46 PM
I concur that the combat needs to be snappier, but more tactical? In my experience the more tactical combat gets, the more it gets bogged down as players endlessly deliberate the merits of the options available.

I'm not really familiar with WFRP, but is there any way to add tactical ability to combat while still speeding it up a bit? For instance, in 3e maneuvers like grapple aren't used as much because the mechanics are complicated, but if you vastly simplified them you'd both add some tactical depth (because now they're an attractive option) while making them snappier to adjudicate when they do come up, without needing to drastically change the nature of combat. Something like that.

Matthew
2009-07-13, 11:07 AM
I am still annoyed about this. On the other hand, I got the quick start rules for Rogue Trader the other day, and it appears to be very like Dark Heresy and Warhammer, but with a few bits and pieces extra. Hopefully, that is all this "third edition" will be.

Morty
2009-07-13, 11:28 AM
I am still annoyed about this. On the other hand, I got the quick start rules for Rogue Trader the other day, and it appears to be very like Dark Heresy and Warhammer, but with a few bits and pieces extra. Hopefully, that is all this "third edition" will be.

I don't know... the preview mentions something about "dice pools" and 3rd edition being "a weird hybrid of an RPG and a board game". Sounds like big changes for me.