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oxinabox
2009-07-08, 05:23 AM
Continuing with my sailing related questions:
PC's are going to get money to fund the purchasing and supplying a a ship
of sufficent size to carry umm lets say 5 tonnes (1 tonne = 1000 lb?)
+ arm it with balista/ small siege.
+ hire a crew for a 2 week voyage.
+ misc expenses (ship related only) eg hiring a ships surgon.
fireproofing the hull.

I'm putting a lot of flexability in what the ship/ crew could be.

So we're looking at big money (out of game i'll stop them spending it on themselves: I just given the the standard startign wealth for leval 9 (36,000gp), and well some of them have squandered it (which i think is good): 12,000+gp on protection for praybook and spellbook, so i can say you've had your gold to spend on your kit. ALso in game they'll have guards accompnying them to make sure they don't high tail with the crowns gold)

This will be coming from a duke, along with guards to ensure that the grain reaches it's destination.
It's quiet likely and almost intended that the PC's will kill the guards, and maybe leave the town the grain was supposed to feed to starve and sell the grain at a profit {they claim neutral/evil alignments so I wanna see proof}.
This will make them outlaws, .'. campaign fun.

Maybe the ship will be legally the property of the crown...

to reiterate.
How much gold to kit out, and crew a ship for 2 weeks?

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 05:58 AM
Start with page 95 of Stormwrack.

A caravel for 10,000gp would probably do them.

BobVosh
2009-07-08, 06:04 AM
Start with page 95 of Stormwrack.

A caravel for 10,000gp would probably do them.

I would recommend the whole book. Very well written.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 06:08 AM
Caravel has a minimum crew of 7. Can carry a total of 30 medium creatures and has a cargo capacity of 120 tons.
It also comes with a free ballista and can sail in open ocean.

paddyfool
2009-07-08, 06:38 AM
Yeah, a caravel would be a fine ship for a grain shipment. However, as regards that "5 tonne load" you mentioned:

Five tonnes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton), is actually about 11,000 pounds. It's the sort of load that medium trucks today are built for (although heavy tonnage trucks can carry over 25 tonnes). Modern dietary recommendations state that a young man should be getting about half a pound of grain equivalents in their diet each day ordinarily, in addition to the meat & veg etc. However, a child or an old person might need just half this much, a young man who's also engaged in heavy manual labour might need twice this much, and a lot of people like to eat a bit more than they strictly need. Therefore, 11,000 pounds of grain is enough to feed approximately 5000 people for 4 days (8 days on half rations) assuming the rest of the food is also covered.

If you're taking supplies to a small detachment of soldiers, say 500 men, this might be 3 weeks' grain ration, assuming that they each eat a pound a day, and a caravel (never mind highly-paid adventurers) an unnecessary expense for the task. If you're trying to feed a town, or an army, it'd be a drop in the ocean.

However, you could easily load up the caravel with 100 tonnes of grain. That'd be enough to feed a town of 20,000 people half a pound of grain each for three weeks; a far more reasonable amount for what you're talking about. Also, a far more tempting amount for theft, if you want to tempt the adventurers ;-).

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 06:43 AM
I will read the book, I will read the book, I will read the book.
Ok, I keep getting in trouble for not reading the book.

I'm still thinking my rules for sinking through combat.


Caravel has a minimum crew of 7. Can carry a total of 30 medium creatures and has a cargo capacity of 120 tons.
It also comes with a free ballista and can sail in open ocean.
Just from what you've said sounds like a very small ship.
but maybe that a good thing, they can work there way up.
and at that price the crow won't loose much.
say i give them 15,000.
10,000 => ship
+1000 for fireproofing
+75 per crew member per week = 150*10 = 1500.
total=12500
so a bit of money for food, smaller private trade goods.
ammo, spare sail, maybe a mast.
oil - if they don't just use continual flame to make lanterns.

Hmm maybe i'm undersestimating the grain they need to carry.
I need to feed a large medievil town so 3,000 people for a season > 5,000 lbs
But i don't want to givethem more than that, cos they'll sell it off.

EDIT: 3000 is a large medievil town, 20,000 is almost unthinkable.
it's for a town that has no grain stocks left wievils


But then again maybe there the short term releif and the main vessals will come latter, that sounds good.




once again hijacking my own thread.
once of the 3 players is a mystic theurge Wizard/achivist.
casts wizard spell list up to 3 and all devine lists (that he buys) up to 3 as well.
He can do necromancy.
cost: 50 gp onyx per sailor.
What would the downside of using zombie sailors?


I'm going to stop posting and start reading.
this is really looking good.

Edit: I got severly ninja's cos i wass reading
But i think most of what i said holds true

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 06:45 AM
Caravel can potentially carry 240,000 pounds of cargo. 120 tons.
That is a hell of a lot.

It is the most economical purchase for a cargo ship.

You could always hire a great captain and form a small fleet if this isn't enough cargo space.

A town of 3000 people will eat at least 750 pounds per day.
To get them through say 100 days (a comfortable season) they will need at least 750,000 pounds or about 375 tons. So they will need.. what 4 Caravels?
They also require their own supplies for the journey and all you see.

So a good captain who can hold a fleet together and 4 Caravel ships.
To adequately defend it that means getting at least 20 crew per ship as well.

Connington
2009-07-08, 06:46 AM
Paddyfool, the answer to that of course, is to throw in other factors. Risk, from pirates or enemy nations (often indistinguishable) or a sudden famine are good reasons to hire a fast ship and expensive crew. Of course, it sounds like the grain run is just an excuse to set the PCs up as outlaws/pirates, but the details of the situation dictate how much effort the duke is going to put into hunting them down.

Dixieboy
2009-07-08, 07:07 AM
5 tonnes of cargo?

That's not a whole lot there pal.

You can barely fit the weapons in 5 tonnes add in supplies and actual CARGO and well

You're gonna have a weight problem.

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 07:08 AM
11,000 lb is too small me thinks.
wheat is sell able on the open market for:
1 pound wheat = 1 cp
100 lb = 1 gp.
There this is so cheap it's not funny.
Wow, i should have checked.
Why isn't dnd metric?

so I want at least a value of hmmm... lets say 1000 gp. that should be enough to temp true evil in to piracy.
Not enough for anyone to get any equipment that want, devide it up by 3 = 300 each.
I wonder what sort of CR that correspondents to.




The quest is sort of like they start game on there own very small but very fast coaster been given a message (sealed) from a lord to the duke saying most of the the towns grain stocks have been eaten by weavils, there may be riots if the population finds out and in the long term starvation.
they are the first ship to get immediate relief, while a larger convoy can be organized.


so 1000 gp = 100,000 lb of wheat.
MUCH better.
should feet the town of 3000 effective adults
(it need to last for a season, so that would be 1/4 *365= 92 days)
so they wopuld eat 1,500 lb per day.
so in a season would be 92*1,500=138 000 lb
WHich means the Players would basically take care of the whole town.
no good.

lets make it a regional center, Small city. with surounding serfs.
um triple it's size. 9,000 adults. makes moire sense for a lord to live there.
so they would eat: 414 000 lb (much better)

Now thats still just 5 ships. why can't the duchy rally that up on their own?
Any suggestions?
I can see that they probably wouldn't have that much wheat lying around (not then they have to feed there much bigger city).
so maybe they need to send the other ships to the ware houses around the coast to collect it.



I'm not going to make the get the caravel, but i'll bugget it that way.

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 07:09 AM
5 tonnes of cargo?

That's not a whole lot there pal.

You can barely fit the weapons in 5 tonnes add in supplies and actual CARGO and well

You're gonna have a weight problem.

not five ton's of max cargo.
5 tons of cargo from the duke.

This have been upped to
100,000 lb

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 07:24 AM
Well presuming there are 750 families of 4 on average and it takes one loaf of bread per day to feed them (which is about right based on my own kids).
You will consume 750 loaves of bread per day.

A standard bushel (parcel) of wheat is enough to make 175 loaves of bread (go ahead google it. :D).
1 bushel of wheat weighs about 60lbs (again you can google this).

So your town consumes 4.28 Bushels per day (rounded) or 256.8lbs of wheat per day. Allowing for a bad season that means you will need 100 days worth MAX or 25680lb -> 12.84 tons.

So my maths before was way off.
One single Caravel will do it no problems.

Mind you, this is the raw minimum subsitence diet.
Corn weighs more. You could easily go for yuor figures and the town would still only just make it through a bad winter.

You will also need to allow for rations for your crew etc.

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 07:36 AM
I think i'll go for my figures.
and if anyone asks, I'll say the town ship it'self is 9,000 but there are uncounted serf surrounding it. and that this 100,000lb is a drop in the water.
And even though it was those useless serf's fault that we have no grain.we still have to feed them.
And there rebellion is worse than them starving.
If the starve they just die. thats ok more a breading all the time.
But the rebell, and then they destroy stuff.
AND we need to pay the exercutioners to kill them, and with all the serfs dead we need to pay good people to did the graves for them.
It's appalling!

Wheat is too cheap by far in dnd...
It must be produced by serfs
1,000 gp shouln't feed a city for a year

bosssmiley
2009-07-08, 07:36 AM
once again hijacking my own thread.
once of the 3 players is a mystic theurge Wizard/achivist.
casts wizard spell list up to 3 and all divine lists (that he buys) up to 3 as well.
He can do necromancy.
cost: 50 gp onyx per sailor.
What would the downside of using zombie sailors?

They're slow (1 action/rnd)
They're not adaptable, and have to be closely monitored
They're the living dead

A caravel might look small by modern standards, about the size of Columbus' Santa Maria, or Cook's Endeavour, but they're good all-purpose ships. A caravel filled with barrels of goods (note: the barrel was the standard shipping container (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization#ISO_standard) of the pre-modern period) was about the most efficient transportation system a medieval society had.

If you're planning on getting deep into shipping as an aspect of your game I recommend the Patrician III PC game by Ascaron Entertainment. It's a great little merchant prince primer...

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 07:46 AM
1. They're slow (1 action/rnd)
2. They're not adaptable, and have to be closely monitored
3. They're the living dead

keep going, this is great stuff.
how about them falling apart due to brittleness from salt?
Do the nonintelegent undead, suffer penalties to wisdom, and int based checks?

Caravel is about half the size i of what I've sailed (3 masted barquentine 180 ft, 130 ft on deck (who can name the ship?)) , but is still Big to put on a board.
I assume it was smaller cos you can run it with 7 people.
But i did't take into that that was at any one time (so to sail round the clock you'ld want 3 or 4 times that (moral penalty if only have 3*7 due to tiredness))

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 07:51 AM
Would a literal skeleton crew work better? They're faster, and as SilverClawShift's campaign journals have theorized, they're easier to store (just store the bones into a compartment or something).

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 07:54 AM
Would a literal skeleton crew work better? They're faster, and as SilverClawShift's campaign journals have theorized, they're easier to store (just store the bones into a compartment or something).

I was thinking that.
Can they be created with the same raise dead spell?
If so I'ld make the PC's spend time stripping the bones of flesh (heh heh heve fun little elf, you said you wanted the be a necromancer :smalleek:)

I need to read those rules too

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 07:55 AM
Um.. unseen servants.

Problem solved.
The party can take care of anything too complex.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/unseenServant.htm

A caravel has a minimum crew of 7 for indifinate sailing. So only 2/3 crew are really needed at a time minimum.
Use unseen servants to assist with menial tasks and 2 PCs with profession(Sailor) at decent ranks will handle it fine.


I was thinking that.
Can they be created with the same raise dead spell?
If so I'ld make the PC's spend time stripping the bones of flesh (heh heh heve fun little elf, you said you wanted the be a necromancer :smalleek:)

I need to read those rules too

Yes and the Animate Dead spell strips the flesh for you if you chose the skeletons options.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm

Fri
2009-07-08, 07:59 AM
If you read/watch one piece, Going Merry (or merry go in the english version) is a caravel. You might put that into consideration.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:02 AM
If you read/watch one piece, Going Merry (or merry go in the english version) is a caravel. You might put that into consideration.

It is a little short and stout, but yes the right over-all design. lol.

A Caravel is what Collumbus sailed in.

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 08:07 AM
Um.. unseen servants.


I'm not sure if they're strong enough to do the job. They can only exert 20 pounds of force or drag 100 pounds, and, although it's not entirely clear, they may not be able to tie a lot of the knots that may be needed to run the ship.

I argue the last part since US, "...can’t perform any task that requires a skill check with a DC higher than 10 or that requires a check using a skill that can’t be used untrained." The DC for a "firm knot" is 10, while the DC for a "special knot" is 15, which, if I were the DM, would rule is necessary for crewing a sailing ship.

Edit: Actually, I just realized that I haven't read Stormwrack yet. Are there rules in that book about the finer details of crewing a sailing ship?

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 08:10 AM
If you read/watch one piece, Going Merry (or merry go in the english version) is a caravel. You might put that into consideration.
I think we have it in Australia? however i don't watch much tv.

What sort of vessal would you recommends for pirates.
What sort of vessal for a Very fast,small,( say 25x15 ft) message courier?

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:12 AM
No but they can do the annoying stuff, like cleaning things and sewing up holes in sails, coiling up rope to safely tuck it away etc.

A caravel only needs 2/3 people to sail it minimum. They are a very easy ship to sail. You may need 5/6 men on deck in rough weather is all.

People have sailed a caravel halfway around the world with less than 10 crew before.
They are one of the best small ocean going ships ever invented. Still used today in some parts of the world. :)

You would need a 20/30 man crew for battle however.

But unseen servant and a few other minor helper spells would make sailing a caravel a snap! :D

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:19 AM
D&D Nautical technology is not sufficient for "pirates" as we would think of them.
It would depend on how far they are from shore. If they are in blue water then the only reliable ship they could use would be another caraven or an elven wing ship.

Also another idea for a ship for the party could be a Cog. It was the principle ship used by medieval traders. Very common in the Hanse traders during the time of the Hanseatic League in Germany.

Carries a LOT less cargo though.
But unless you hit bad weather only 1 person at a time is needed to sail the boat at a minimum without penalties.



Cog
The cog is the basic medieval-era sailing ship. It is a singlemasted
sailing ship with a round, sturdy hull. It has a partial
deck (the waist of the ship is not decked over, but the ends are)
and raised bow and stern platforms that are open, as opposed
to being enclosed like a true forecastle or sterncastle. It is
seaworthy, but not very handy in adverse winds.
Nefs, roundships, or knorrs use these same statistics. A
knorr or roundship also has an oar speed of 5 ft. in addition
to the sailing speed.
Cog: Colossal vehicle; Seaworthiness +2; Shiphandling
–2; Speed wind × 20 ft. (poor); Overall AC –3; Hull sections
16 (sink 4 sections); Section hp 80 (hardness 5); Section
AC 3; Rigging Sections 1; Rigging hp 60 (hardness 0), AC
1; Ram 4d6; Mounts 1 light and 1 heavy; Space 40 ft. by
20 ft.; Height 10 ft. (draft 10 ft.); Complement 20; Watch
4; Cargo 40 tons (Speed wind × 10 ft. if 20 tons or more);
Cost 6,000 gp.

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 08:20 AM
No but they can do the annoying stuff, like cleaning things and sewing up holes in sails, coiling up rope to safely tuck it away etc.

But can the party do the rest of the stuff? Do they have enough ranks in Profession: Sailing?

As for pirates...

According to the scholars at the Real World Weapons and Armor thread, your pirate ships will, ideally, need enough crew to sail the ship, plus extra members for boarding merchant ships.

So, if Merchant Ship X can reliably repel about 15 or 20 level 1 boarders, then your pirate ships will probably need 25 level 1 boarders or so.

As for their ship, I would imagine something that's fast, but can carry a lot of crew and a good bit of cargo.

...

Another caravel? Maybe a sloop for lesser pirates? But definitely something fast in order to catch up to merchant ships and get away from military ships.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:23 AM
The ultimate fast pirate ship would be an elven wing ship.

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 08:25 AM
The ultimate fast pirate ship would be an elven wing ship.

What is an elven wing ship? Is it a military vessel?

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:34 AM
Cog
The cog is the basic medieval-era sailing ship. It is a singlemasted
sailing ship with a round, sturdy hull. It has a partial
deck (the waist of the ship is not decked over, but the ends are)
and raised bow and stern platforms that are open, as opposed
to being enclosed like a true forecastle or sterncastle. It is
seaworthy, but not very handy in adverse winds.
Nefs, roundships, or knorrs use these same statistics. A
knorr or roundship also has an oar speed of 5 ft. in addition
to the sailing speed.
Cog: Colossal vehicle; Seaworthiness +2; Shiphandling
–2; Speed wind × 20 ft. (poor); Overall AC –3; Hull sections
16 (sink 4 sections); Section hp 80 (hardness 5); Section
AC 3; Rigging Sections 1; Rigging hp 60 (hardness 0), AC
1; Ram 4d6; Mounts 1 light and 1 heavy; Space 40 ft. by
20 ft.; Height 10 ft. (draft 10 ft.); Complement 20; Watch
4; Cargo 40 tons (Speed wind × 10 ft. if 20 tons or more);
Cost 6,000 gp.

An Elven military vessel. Definately a very piratey ship.
You could modify a non-elf version quite easily. :)

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 08:36 AM
I think I've going to need to Homebrew a stack of ships.
Like my fast small coster.


But can the party do the rest of the stuff? Do they have enough ranks in Profession: Sailing?

Yes, I've houserules a free feat that makes Profession sailor and one of Appraise, Prof fisherman, prof siege engineer, craft shipwright, is a class skill for all classes.
(this was in my old thread, soz).
I'm playing very nicely , all my players are almost new (i've run in 3.5 with them and 4 or 4 4e) - (not imposing wisdom penaties to unwise ninja AC, letting weapon fininesse work for all swords (in addition to the normal), um...it's almost Monty Haul :smalltongue:)

Once of my player has 2 level of dread pirate, he as Prof Sailor of 8 on ranks allone (but he takes a wisdom penalty to it so i think it comes out as 7, but i might add a synergy from use rope (or craft shipwight) to that.)

Everyone is atleast trained in proffesion sailor

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 08:37 AM
An Elven military vessel. Definately a very piratey ship.

Which may be a little tricky for pirates to get, unless they're military deserters...it's a bit unwise for pirates to attack military vessels (the same way bandits aren't too keen about assaulting military patrols unless they're a huge bandit army or something).

paddyfool
2009-07-08, 08:42 AM
A town of 3000 people will eat at least 750 pounds per day.
To get them through say 100 days (a comfortable season) they will need at least 750,000 pounds or about 375 tons.

One too many zeros here - 750 * 100 = 75,000, not 750,000. By the rest of your maths, they need about half a caravel's capacity, which would make it quite reasonable for the task (I don't own Stormwrack, but surely it would go faster if only half full).

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 08:45 AM
One too many zeros here - 750 * 100 = 75,000, not 750,000. By the rest of your maths, they need about half a caravel's capacity, which would make it quite reasonable for the task (I don't own Stormwrack, but surely it would go faster if only half full).

Sorry, your right..

But the standard speed is for it up to half full I think. They take some penalties on checks for turning the vessel and all when comepletely full but I think that is all.

So yeah, definately no probs with a single caravel.

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 08:50 AM
oh yeah, heres a question.
What should the party do if the dwarf wearing adamant full plate gets washed overboard.
He's currently saving for a ring of water walking (15,000 gp, very expensive for what it is... considering boots of levitation are only 10,000)
at which point this will be a mute point.
It will be fun:
Ship approuces out ship.
Dwarf jumps over sided.
Splash, spash, splash
Bang, bang bang (dwarf using adamant fullblade to cut hole in ship)
Screams ensure.

But 'til then what can be done once he's in the water.
He's int mod -1, so he does't have the skill ponts to bulk swim.
I'm going to tell him tp put a keel on his armour (swim +2) (see page 107 Stormwrack)

But when he's in the water and sinking fast, what should the party do.
Can Water walking be got in potion form? I guess so, i'll check the dmg later
SO can yopu drink while you sink?

To make the Armour buoyant is only about +4000 gp which stops it from taking doube Armour check panalty which means he comes out neutral over all for swim. and allso gove a +1 enhancemnt (it's costed at +2, Cos boycant is a +1 effect)
cool worked that out

paddyfool
2009-07-08, 08:56 AM
He could always stock up on a few potions of water walking. In a man overboard situation, he could then run up to the side and either ask someone to toss him a rope or use a grappling hook (assuming he can run faster than the ship is moving). If the ship sinks, he should have time to get to one of the better bits of flotsam left behind.

13_CBS
2009-07-08, 09:01 AM
Agreed with Paddyfool--toss him a rope, while shouting "Man overboard!".

However, the dwarf shouldn't be wearing fullplate on a ship while out of combat. In a combat situation, the rope-tossing thing might be trickier.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 09:08 AM
Well he simply receives a -12 to swim checks (-10 for magic or masterwork full plate). If he can get a minimum DC (10 in calm I think) then it actually does not matter one bit. lol.

That said there is an enchantment for armor in Stormwrack so it's check penalty does not apply to swim checks.
If he add the amphibious template (LA +0, -2 DEX, +8 on Swim checks, can breath on land and under water. Nothing else. :) ) then who cares? lol.
May even be a useful tactic. The Dwarf swimming in full plate armor with an axe who busts a hole in the hull of the enemy ship.. ;)

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 09:08 AM
However, the dwarf shouldn't be wearing fullplate on a ship while out of combat. In a combat situation, the rope-tossing thing might be trickier.

He's a dwarf, he claims it's cultural.

EDIT:


Well he simply receives a -12 to swim checks. If he can get a minimum DC 910 in calm I think) then it actually does not matter one bit. lol.

That said there is an enchantment for armor in Stormwrack so it's check penalty does not apply to swim checks.
If he add the amphibious template (LA +0, -2 DEX, +8 on Swim checks, can breath on land and under water. Nothing else. :) ) then who cares? lol.
May even be a useful tactic. The Dwarf swimming in full plate armor with an axe who busts a hole in the hull of the enemy ship.. ;)
actually -10 he's wearing adi wich is automatically masterwork.

I've explictity Banned all templates, and also all races that are basically the same as a land race only with ability to breath under water.

Now with a keel, and boycancy and ady full plate his swim stat would be:
Str+ranks+2(keel)-5(boyant MW)=Str+ranks-3
for him str=+4, can't remember ranks.
so it would come out the be: ranks+1
So he would be able to swim better as someone with neutral str in cloths, whop is untrained in swimming.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 09:11 AM
Any of these would help:



Buoyant: This special ability can be placed only on
a suit of armor. Buoyant armor looks no different from
a normal suit, but it is much lighter. It weighs only half
as much as normal, and its armor check penalty is not
doubled for Swim checks. The armor is no less awkward
to wear, however, so medium and heavy armors still slow
the wearer.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, freedom of movement; Price +1 bonus.

Deep: This special ability can be placed only on a suit
of armor. A suit of deep armor is a dull black color. The
wearer gains the ability to breathe water and is immune
to damage from cold water and to pressure in extreme
depths of water. Additionally, he gains darkvision out
to 60 feet.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, transformation of the deeps; Price +22,500 gp.


Add both and it's all good. :)

Halaster
2009-07-08, 09:11 AM
As for a good pirate ship: small galleys are great. They don't go far into the open ocean, but that's not pirate waters anyway, too much ground to cover. Instead, pirates go looking for narrow, shallow passages (historically, Sunda Strait, the waters between Sicily and North Africa and the passages between the Antilles were popular), where the Merchants practically queue up for them. Galleys in such situations have great advantages: they're independent from the prevailing winds, have a shallow draft and the extra crew doesn't just stand around and gawk while they're not fighting.

Another piratey thing, me hearties: pirates don't unsually steal wheat. It's a lot of mass per gold piece, and most pirate ships are built for speed rather than cargo. They will want to steal precious metals, rare cloth, spices etc. They will of course also steal ships, however, provided they have someplace they can take them to for sale. Also, the crew might make good loot themselves: healthy men accustomed to hard labor make fine slaves, while wealthy passengers can be ransomed. The what? Oh, the wheat. Throw that overboard.

Addendum: of course, pirates don't actually need a ship. They could wait for a ship to anchor in a likely place off their coast and row out in boats to capture her. The carribean buccaneers started out that way. They could also plant a fake light on the coast (provided regular signals exist) and lure a ship onto dangerous rocks.Spoils some of the cargo, but doesn't reuqire any vessels. Historically, coastal pirates were nastier than ship-owning ones, because they couldn't just cut and run, so they relied on leaving no witnesses.

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 09:16 AM
@Gaiyamato: you ninja'ed my edit see my post above yours

the pirates won't be after the wheat, the wheat is only short term.
The random sea trolls etc. will enjoy the fun of murder.
I love the idea of costal priates.

There are atleast 3 large pirate ports.
one semisecret heavliy fortified mainland town.
and 2 islands.
So ship trade is rife

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 09:29 AM
@Gaiyamato: you ninja'ed my edit see my post above yours


Actually I ninja'd the ninja by editing my post before you posted the edit in response to that post, then I did the double ninja by responding before you had finished the edit. lol.

EDIT:
Ok repeatedly listening to this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPH1OoTobtk

..and reading this thread has inspired me to start my world I have been working on.

Time for Dark Sun to meet it's nastier big brother...

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 09:39 AM
We is ninja's. seriosly why isn't therea ninja emoticon?
awesome song. forsome reson remind me of ultimate showdown by lemon demon. same tempo

Hmm song list for nautical campaign:
I wish I could get CD of Skipper Jan Rubeck, SOuth australia and old sea shanities. I think fair port made one...

Pirate of the caribbean main theme.
Abney Park - Airship Pirate (thanks)
Captain morgans revenge by alestorm.

Classical classics (not nautical but very dramatic)
lux aterna
jupiter - holst
mar - holst

I got the Midnight syndicate official dnd sound track and was very disapointed

Gaiyamato
2009-07-08, 09:45 AM
Check out the rest of Abney park's music. It is awesome.
But you gave me that awesome link to www.imarvintpa.com and his dnd database. So it's only fair. :D

lol.

Now to find a party of suckers willing to die horrid deaths in an airship in the middle of the desert....

EDIT: Actually how many rules am I going to need to change for a nautical campaign in a world with no large bodies of water??
:P

oxinabox
2009-07-08, 08:42 PM
EDIT: Actually how many rules am I going to need to change for a nautical campaign in a world with no large bodies of water??
:P
Depends on how you have your upwardf momentum.

Is yuou use a zeplin ballon, 3 or 4.
if you use magic none.

if you make the ship enchanted to be very light then have horizontal sails (as wells and normal ones). so that the rising air from the hot dessert lifts the ship then one.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-09, 01:48 AM
Zepplins unfortunately. lol.
Very very little magic.. :P

oxinabox
2009-07-09, 07:10 AM
Well played the first game today.
Overall great sucess.
One player who called me last night, after he heard i was runing a campaign.
as i was like ok sure, come over ( am tommorrow (today) mornin and we'll roll up a character.
He arrives at 11. I help him roll a character, (a psion).
every oen turns up at 12:30.
Spend an 1:30 finishing of chartacter generations.
We'ld spent an bout 6 hours the other day making them.
It take a while to help 3 people who've never played 3.5e to create lvl 9 characters.

So we finish them off.

The new player, really didn't get into it though. and once i'ld finished helping him make his character he told me he would only be avaialbe for todays game, cos he's going back to uni early, which is kind of annoying scince it takes so long to teach him how his character operates.
And he never really felt he understood. His goal with builting character was to create something that would really annoy the other players, so he planned to cure death wish to make them attack themselves, and craft shipwright to dismantle the ship. managed to talk him out of it.
I possibly forgot to explain the skill system, as when we were wandering around town he claimed not to know what was going on.
Then again he was playing warcraft.
The other players had had only aittle more (one game, 12 months ago) more experience than him...

The other players had fun though.
Less so the dwarf fighter, he kept asking random questions of people about local gossip, multiple times... wasn't satisfied with "They tell you nothing of interest to you"

They did get the caravel.
Mystic therugues take 2 hours in game to prep all there spells, and unfortunatelyt when there new, almost the same amount.
"How many continual flames did you prepare?"
" 3. no wait, haven't finished the cleric list preparations. umm... 7"

THe ninja pirate, normally deals little damage.
until somethign happens: eg flat footed round with him winning initive, or Mystic cast blindness.
That allows him to do surprise attack damage with all 4 of his attacks (assumning they hit)
Then he "Unleases the fury" with upto 22d6 + 2d8 +2 damage.

The Dwarf fighter continually hits around 20 or so damage which is great. the fullblade makes all the difference 2d8+1.5x his bulk str, and he does it twiceas full round
Means he can almost compete with the Mystic T.

The Mystic T. has the storm reserve feat.
So he does 3d6 shock at 20 ft, I just realise that that i should have bben making him roll a caster lvl+BaB vs touch t osee it it hit.
That why he should be using other spells.

As i suspected they're either not evil or too chowardly to steal the grain.
they were considering ransoming it to the town (and get paid at both ends). but i think they're to scared of the dukes navy.

They're party ECL officially under 9. Now it's a party of 3 9th lvls.
But i think cos i'm being nice with the rules it's abit higher.
They muutilated the 2 seacats i sent against them at the start.
and also quiet easy saw of the 2 scrags (sea trolls) i sent agaist them at the end.
The ninja murder someone in there sleep.
and when the Mystic T said he wanted to create a skelital mansevant, he got suprise attack agaist a begger and did so much damage that all the flesh was pealed off before the spell was cast.

Now both Scrags and one of the seacats were raise as skeltons.
the rules say they keep there speeds except fly (if done by wings)
thus they each have 40 ft swim speed. and i think sealion has 19 str, and scrags about 21.
So they've ties ropes to them and are using them to tow the boat.
Caravel has sped of 30 ft (under normal wind, solong as not loaded with over 120,000 pounds)
Now, how does being towed affect this?

they hired a Flying monkey thing crew that will each sail for just a silver piece per week, so long as it never gets boring.
And a cook, for an number of silver pieces perday, which means they can turn 1 cp of raw rations (= one pound of flour, or one chicken, or abotu 1/4 pound saltewd meat) into food for one person for one day.
That cook must be working round the clock... I must make him complain.
and a lvl 3 healer from miniature handbook for 1.5 sp perday.
They really drive a hard bargain.
They bought broken lanterns and fixed them, and a ship with no rigging and replaced it.
and even with all there scriimpign sill only just manages to get everything for 15,000 gp.



Heh i think when uni starts this game might continue.
Thus I will be playing in two 3.5 campains, and dming one 4e and this one 3.5e.
heh heh.
Damn I need to be on committee for the gaming club - I need a Key.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-09, 07:32 AM
lol. Glad it went well. :)