PDA

View Full Version : Is this D&D Encounter appropriate?



Jergmo
2009-07-08, 05:41 PM
I'm the DM and have a level 5 elite human fighter, level 2 kobold sorcerer, level 2 human cleric, and two level 1 human warriors set up to fight the PCs who are a level 1 bugbear ranger, level 2 kobold rogue, level 2 human cleric, and a level 1 Yuan-ti pureblood sorcerer (with practiced spellcaster). The encounter calculator says "Overpowering", but what do you folks think? Is it too difficult/too easy?

chiasaur11
2009-07-08, 05:43 PM
A level five and enough backup to just about match the party without the fighter?

Yeah. That's way too much power for a team of level ones and twos. By a lot.

Jergmo
2009-07-08, 05:44 PM
A level five and enough backup to just about match the party without the fighter?

Yeah. That's way too much power for a team of level ones and twos. By a lot.

Well, the bugbear is set up to be the party's tank, specializing in melee, and it's got those two extra hit dice, and high strength/con/dex...the Yuan-ti Pureblood also gets free hit dice and dex/int/cha...and with Practiced Spellcaster, they're capable of shooting off 3 magic missiles.

arguskos
2009-07-08, 05:59 PM
Well, the bugbear is set up to be the party's tank, specializing in melee, and it's got those two extra hit dice, and high strength/con/dex...the Yuan-ti Pureblood also gets free hit dice and dex/int/cha...and with Practiced Spellcaster, they're capable of shooting off 3 magic missiles.
Uh... no. You see, that doesn't matter. At all. Why? Because if the baddies have Int scores above 5 (they all should), they'll just focus fire the Bugbear to death in one round, followed swiftly by the Yuan-ti, and the rest of the party, just because those are the threats.

Change it to this:
-A level 3 elite human fighter
-A level 2 kobold sorcerer
-A level 2 human cleric
-2 level 1 human fighters.

That is a much more balanced challenge for your party, and I just made that one up off the top of my head.

Really, a solo level 5 could take half your party, and the rest could mop up what's left. When in doubt, go a touch light. :smallsmile:

Coidzor
2009-07-08, 07:52 PM
elite here means elite array, with its CR+1 without adding a HD stuff, right?

And what's the LA/Racial HD on a yuan-ti pureblood?

My encounter calculator lists it as a very hard boss-level encounter where the party's going to blow through about half their resources. Giving it an encounter level of 7.4 to the effective party level of 3.1(if the yuan ti is an ECL 2 character). The bugbear counting as a 5th level character due to the 3 levels of humanoid and the LA is probably the only thing doing that though.

The aforementioned level 3 elite and 2 level 2 fighters and the same sorcerer and cleric would be EL 6.6. Which is still double their EPL of 3.3 (if the yuan-ti is an ECL 3 character).

It does seem like there is a good chance of a TPK with two spellcasters equal to your party's spellcasters and with a better fighter (due to being a higher level and with all HD being fighter HD and the feat advantage). Heck. Why not just mirror-match 'em at this point?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-08, 08:07 PM
...the PCs who are a level 1 bugbear ranger, level 2 kobold rogue, level 2 human cleric, and a level 1 Yuan-ti pureblood sorcerer (with practiced spellcaster).

Bugbear Range 1 is ECL 5 (Ranger 1 + Humanoid 3 + LA +1)
Kobold Rogue 2 is ECL 2 (Rogue 2 + LA +0)
Human Cleric 2 is ECL 2 (Cleric 2 + LA +0)
Yuan-Ti Pureblood Sorcerer 1 is ECL 7 (Sorcerer 1 + Monstrous Humanoid 4 + LA +2)

Do you fully understand how Effective Character Level, Level Adjustment, and Racial Hit Dice work? Racial HD are not optional, a Bugbear PC must have three levels of Humanoid, a Yuan-Ti Pureblood must have four levels of Monstrous Humanoid, and these levels count toward their Effective Character Level.


...a level 5 elite human fighter, level 2 kobold sorcerer, level 2 human cleric, and two level 1 human warriors...
Anything with levels in a PC class gets the elite ability score array without increasing their CR.
Human Fighter 5 is CR 5, maybe CR 6 if he has some 18's
Kobold Sorcerer 2 is CR 2
Human Cleric 2 is CR 2
two Human Warrior 1's are each CR 1/2
That's an Encounter Level of around 6 or 7. It really depends on how the encounter is set up, but it probably will be too much for this party. Plus you definitely need to rethink letting people play high ECL monster races at such a low level, the Bugbear and Yuan-Ti are higher ECL than the rest of the party without any class levels at all.

Coidzor
2009-07-08, 08:26 PM
Anything with levels in a PC class gets the elite ability score array without increasing their CR.

I'd forgotten that, sorry.

So yeah... That's a pretty unbalanced party. @_@ I hope you're using an XP system where the two lower-ECL characters can catch up.

ericgrau
2009-07-08, 08:49 PM
My encounter calculator said the CR was 2-3 levels above the effective party level. What kind of stats are the PC's using? If it's standard (average high stat of 15-16), then this is a hard boss-fight type encounter, but beatable. 1 or 2 PCs might die, or less or more depending on the party. If they have high stats, then this is merely a difficult fight.

Again, it all depends on the details. The party seems to be lacking strong martial characters which are important at low levels. They could be in for a lot of trouble. If you mean for this to be a regular fight, I'd tone it back without a doubt. Also be careful about using PC classes - which are supposed to be special - for average joe monsters; consider warriors and adepts instead. But at least the levels you picked aren't bad for Joe any-monsters (assuming the fighter is the captain of the squad). If it's a major fight, OTOH, then you'll have to take a careful look at everyone's stats, estimate how often each PC/monster will hit (%-age) and for how much damage or with what effect. Then figure "Ok, that'll probably drop someone after 2 rounds, that will after 3 but it'll get healed", etc. We can't answer it for you just from class & level when the fight's this close.

Devils_Advocate
2009-07-08, 09:04 PM
Anything with levels in a PC class gets the elite ability score array without increasing their CR
but shouldn't. Yes, by RAW, the CR increase from giving a monster the elite array overlaps with the CR increase from giving it 1 level in a PC class, but this clearly makes no sense.


So yeah... That's a pretty unbalanced party. @_@ I hope you're using an XP system where the two lower-ECL characters can catch up.
The normal, default XP system allows lower-ECL characters to catch up with higher-ECL ones, by giving them more XP for the same fight and requiring less XP for them to level up.

I just hope that Jergmo understands how ECL works. Maybe the monster characters are doing savage progressions?

lsfreak
2009-07-08, 09:11 PM
I just hope that Jergmo understands how ECL works. Maybe the monster characters are doing savage progressions?

Unless I'm mistaken, you have to take savage progressions through the entire class before you can enter another one.

awa
2009-07-08, 10:02 PM
depending on the terrain and combat style is massively important as is what abilities each foe takes and how much equipment he has.

The second thing is how are you doing the racial hit dice becuase you don't seem to be doing it as stated in the rules and if you aren't that's perfectly fine but we cant help you if we don't know how your doing it.

Harperfan7
2009-07-08, 10:38 PM
human fighter 5 bugbear ranger 1
kobold sorcerer 2 kobold rogue 2
human cleric 2 human cleric 2
human warrior 1 pureblood sorcerer 1
human warrior 1

What is the bugbears favorite enemy? Humans?
Who knows about who?

If the bugbear and kobold both have good stealth and initiative, and the sorcerer has grease, they could do this barring bad luck.

Cast grease on fighters weapon, and on the floor under enemies (surprise and first round). The rogue sneak attacks against the casters, and the bugbear and rogue eventually flank the fighter. If they can combine grease and ray of enfeeblement on the fighter, then he's no problem.

No, I would say that it is not overpowering.