Diplomacy Recruitment Thread

[RedScholarGypsy]

Welcome to the first GITP Diplomacy Game! I could ramble a great big prologue, but why bother when we can link!

Wikia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_game)

Rules we will be using. (http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf)

The map program I will be using to illustrate the game in progress (http://realpolitik.sourceforge.net/)

A large map for ease of reference. (http://people.hsc.edu/faculty-staff/mhight/Dip%20Images/Dip_Map.gif)

If my understanding of copyright laws is correct, since I do possess a copy of this game legally, all this is on the up and up. If not, please tell me before I get my butt kicked off this forum. That would make me sad. :smallfrown:


Rules for Forum Play


The length of the Diplomatic phase, Order Writing phase, and Gaining/Losing Units phase should be set by the gamemaster with agreement of the players before the first turn.
Diplomatic Phase I'd recommend 72-96 hours for the first year, then shortening the phase time as the game progresses naturally. Towards the end this phase may become all together unnecessary, and a GM should not feel required to keep it if the players agree to skip it.
Order Writing phase It should probably be no more than 24 hours. All Orders need to be sent to the GM via pm and should include retreat orders for units that could be dislodged in the upcoming Order Resolution phase, thus allowing the game to move smoothly. If time is needed for a Retreat and Disband phase, then no more than an additional 24 hours.
Gaining/Losing Units phase Again, 24 hours should be enough for this phase.


Please post if you want to sign up, replacements and players for new games are taken off the list. Please don't sign up again until your current game is finished or you are eliminated. When signing up, please name any nations you wish to start as, so it can be possible to accommodate everyone as best we can. Nevermind, Keep it random. Probably more fun that way. :smallamused:

Player Lists:

Game 1
England - Gothicbob
France - Recaiden
Germany - Murska
Italy - Jontom Xire
Austria-Hungry – Fleeing Coward
Russia - Mustadio
Turkey – Selrahc

Game 2
England - EleventhHour
France - Irbis
Germany - Reinholdt
Italy - Trixie
Austria-Hungry – Zar Peter
Russia - Recaiden
Turkey – Dr. Bath


Game 3
Austria - Deathslayer7
England - Reinholdt
France - Fleeing Coward
Germany - Selrahc
Italy - Murska
Russia - Gothicbob
Turkey - The Bushranger


Anything that needs to or should be added please tell me.

[Selrahc]

Well, like I said, I'm definitely willing to give it a go.

[Murska]

Yeah, I'm also in.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'll give this a try

[Mustiado]

I would love to play this, but I have no doubt you'll have no trouble finding players for this game, and this looks liek the sort of thing I'd get massacred in. I'll sign up as a "If you absolutely have to have one more player" slot. Otherwise I'm sure someone else could do it.

[Reinholdt]

Diplomacy. Gotta give this a shot.
*looks at the other players*
Oh this game is going to be very, very twisted.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Diplomacy. Gotta give this a shot.
*looks at the other players*
Oh this game is going to be very, very twisted.

I agree 100%. And Mustadio, I think you'd do very well indeed and should try it.

Also, and I'll be putting this into the first post, any requests for starting nation?

[Reinholdt]

*shrugs*
Not really.
But I'll choose France or Russia anyways. Cause I like both of them. :smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

Hmm. Aren't they randomized?

I got no preference, I've never played.

[Selrahc]

Hmm. Aren't they randomized?

I got no preference, I've never played.

Ditto on that.

[Reinholdt]

Same.

I meant I like those countries in real life.
But yeah. We should probably just randomize it.

[Dr. Bath]

Whilst I would love love to play this, I'm about to go away for two weeks, so I really really shouldn't. Still, put me on the waiting list for the next one :smallwink:

If I recall, there are differences between nations. e.g. Russia gets an extra army, britian gets an easily defendable island (duh), Turkeys starts miles away from the fight, stuff like that. Randomisation is probably the best policy.

[Reinholdt]

*looks at schedule*
*looks at game*
*cries a little*
Stupid new job.

I really don't have the time for this now. Maybe in a month or two.
But you guys better have a ton of fun!
I'll be watching at least.

[Mustiado]

Alright... on advice of council I join Diplomacy. I'd like to request ireland.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I think this may be a bust everyone. I'll give it until the end of the 15th; hopefully some more people will join.

[Reinholdt]

It doesn't have to have the full 7 people to be played from my understanding. You have 4. You could play with that if no one else joins.

[Mustiado]

Yeah, a smaller game may be better for those still learning?

[Murska]

I'd prefer a full-sized game, since that'd help me learn, you know, how to play the actual full-sized game. But oh well.

[Dirk Kris]

I'll be in if that works. If not, meh, don't worry about it.
And if I'm in, I totally call the US of A! Woot!

[Dr. Bath]

I'll be in if that works. If not, meh, don't worry about it.
And if I'm in, I totally call the US of A! Woot!

It's... the first world war. There wasn't much of an American involvement until very late in the game, particularly anything to do with territories. In fact, the map only covers Europe, Russia and north africa (and a bit of Turkey) since that was where most of the fighting was done.

[Selrahc]

USA at the time was busy being isolationist and didn't really have an army.

[Recaiden]

While people are busy discussing America, I'll sneak in and put my name on the list. Diplomacy is great.

[RedScholarGypsy]

So far we have Selrahc, Murska, Fleeing Coward, Mustadio, Dirk Kris, and Recaiden. This is going to be fun to watch. :smallbiggrin:

With six players I will run a game regardless. If we do not get a seventh player, old rules (http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/l/less_than_7.htm) established that Turkey and Bulgaria are are nulled out and the Aegean and Black seas are connected. The program doesn't support any 6-player variants, nor these old rules, so i'll find a new mapping program if need be.

[Dirk Kris]

...oh. Then I guess I'll be...

ENGLAND!

[Jontom Xire]

In if there is room. I always wanted to play this game some day but never had time to look up a good place to play it.

[Dirk Kris]

Know what?
Jontom can have my spot.
I think I'll be too lost to enjoy this.
Besides, I'm no good at intrigue.

[Murska]

Just when we got seven players! :smallfrown:

[Robert Blackletter]

well the game looks interesting so i play, it seems like i will not be the only one learning so that an advantage.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Well we have our seven, as long as no one drops out.

England - Gothicbob
France - Recaiden
Germany - Murska
Italy - Jontom Xire
Austria-Hungry – Fleeing Coward
Russia - Mustadio
Turkey – Selrahc

Spring '01 Negotiation phase will last until noon, 7/18, Saturday.
Orders will be due Sunday, 7/19, at noon. If need be these dates can change, I'm flexible but would like the game to move smoothly.

I will help anyone during the game in understanding how to play the game (rules, submitting orders, etc.) but strategy will be up to yourselves and the resources of the internet.

A large map for ease of reference. (http://people.hsc.edu/faculty-staff/mhight/Dip%20Images/Dip_Map.gif)

Starting positions:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B8%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D325%3A%3B485%3B7347nu0mrj

Good luck!

[Murska]

Germany eh? Well, I hope everyone has a fun game. :smallsmile:

[Recaiden]

I think this is the furthest West nation I've ever had.
So, can an army be convoyed over 2 or more fleets?

[Jontom Xire]

Umm, as this is the first time a few of us have played, can we please have a slightly more understanding first turn? I.e. a little more time if we need it, obvious mistakes in orders pointed out, etc. etc.

Thanks.

===EDIT===

Ok, is it just me or do FC and Selrahc have an easy game start? Both have two supply centres EACH very adjacent to their territories that they can gobble up easily, while I only have one not-so-adjacent supply centre.

Secondly, can you move a fleet AND convoy in the same turn? I.e. can I move my fleet into the Tyrhennian sea and then in the same turn use it to convoy my army in Rome to Tunisia?

[Robert Blackletter]

I think this is the furthest West nation I've ever had.
So, can an army be convoyed over 2 or more fleets?

Looking at the rules, i think so but every convoy in the fleet must have orders to. Though I'm a first timer too (Actually this is my Play by post game as well, mmmmmm... so how it feel to pop a virgin people :tongue:)

[Jontom Xire]

Another quick rules question:

Can a unit support multiple other units? I guess probably not.

Can a unit support another while being supported by it. I.e. if I have two units in adjacent provinces, then if they support each other then in effect both are holding with a strength of 2, even if both get attacked at the same time. They could in effect see off a total of 4 enemy units.

[Recaiden]

Secondly, can you move a fleet AND convoy in the same turn? I.e. can I move my fleet into the Tyrhennian sea and then in the same turn use it to convoy my army in Rome to Tunisia?

Can a unit support multiple other units? I guess probably not.

Can a unit support another while being supported by it. I.e. if I have two units in adjacent provinces, then if they support each other then in effect both are holding with a strength of 2, even if both get attacked at the same time. They could in effect see off a total of 4 enemy units.

No, no, and no.
In the last case they can't repulse 4, only 2. If one is attacked while defending, the support is cut and it no longer supports the other.
If, however, there are 2 adjacent provinces in danger from a single source, that would be a valid defensive strategy.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I think this is the furthest West nation I've ever had.
So, can an army be convoyed over 2 or more fleets?
Yes. The rules cover this starting with diagram 19 on page 11. GothicBob has it right in that each fleet in the chain must order the convoy.


Umm, as this is the first time a few of us have played, can we please have a slightly more understanding first turn? I.e. a little more time if we need it, obvious mistakes in orders pointed out, etc. etc.


Yes, any clear mistakes in orders will be forgiven. If you just want to skip proper form for a time and just tell me what you want your troops to do, I'll gladly accommodate.



Ok, is it just me or do FC and Selrahc have an easy game start? Both have two supply centres EACH very adjacent to their territories that they can gobble up easily, while I only have one not-so-adjacent supply centre.


While I would love to opined on this, I won't so as to not influence the game.



Secondly, can you move a fleet AND convoy in the same turn? I.e. can I move my fleet into the Tyrhennian sea and then in the same turn use it to convoy my army in Rome to Tunisia?
Nope, sorry. Each unit gets one action.
For purposes of capturing supply depots this turn, you need to occupy the supply depot at the end of the Fall turn. This turn is Spring '01.


Another quick rules question:

Can a unit support multiple other units? I guess probably not.

Can a unit support another while being supported by it. I.e. if I have two units in adjacent provinces, then if they support each other then in effect both are holding with a strength of 2, even if both get attacked at the same time. They could in effect see off a total of 4 enemy units.

A unit can not support multiple other units. Each unit gets one action.

The second I shall quote directly. Page 7 of the rules:
"A unit that is ordered to hold, convoy, support, or not ordered at all can receive support in holding its position."

So yes, JX, this is an effective defensive strategy. Probably should have kept it to yourself and asked privately. :smallwink:


No, no, and no.
In the last case they can't repulse 4, only 2. If one is attacked while defending, the support is cut and it no longer supports the other.
If, however, there are 2 adjacent provinces in danger from a single source, that would be a valid defensive strategy.

Recaiden, however, is right that it doesn't grant more than defense against 2 units. However, Once you throw in a third adjacent unit supporting one side, then 3 units can hold off 4, I believe. I'll work on that now.

Please keep them coming. And I'm on MSN and AIM under RedScholarGypsy if you need a quick chat.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Recaiden, however, is right that it doesn't grant more than defense against 2 units. However, Once you throw in a third adjacent unit supporting one side, then 3 units can hold off 4, I believe. I'll work on that now.


Nope, seems that if a unit is attacked with equal force, support is cut, though the unit is not dislodged. Makes sense. So if a greater force attacks, it will win in some fashion, as is the nature of the game.

[RedScholarGypsy]

If everyone is already done politicking, you can send orders in early. I won't be around saturday, but feel free to send them in; you can alter them later if you want.

Also, even if you don't send in roders, just give me a general shout out that the game's still going. four days seems so long, but I didn't want the first turn to fizzle. If everyone sends in early, I'll shorten the days.

[Robert Blackletter]

Cool you will have my order later today,

[RedScholarGypsy]

I got post move orders in already, so the others please send them in.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I have all orders. They'll be posted as close to noon as possible. If you want to change orders send it in before I post.

[Robert Blackletter]

So when's the update?

[billtodamax]

Noon. Keep in mind that noon may be a different time for RSG than it is for you.

[Robert Blackletter]

What! How inconsiderate of him not being in my timezone :)

[RedScholarGypsy]

Ah, my bad. My times will be at GMT-5, as I live in the eastern U.S. Keep forgetting that.

[RedScholarGypsy]

SPRING 1901
Orders

Austria: Fleeing Coward
A Budapest - Serbia
F Trieste Hold
A Vienna - Galicia

England: GothicBob
F Edinburgh - North Sea
A Liverpool - Yorkshire
F London - English Channel

France: Recaiden
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Marseilles - Spain
A Paris - Picardy

Germany: Murska
A Berlin - Kiel
F Kiel - Denmark
A Munich - Burgundy

Italy: Jontom Xire
F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Tuscany
A Venice Hold

Russia: Mustadio
A Moscow - Ukraine
F Sevastopol Hold
F St Petersburg(sc) - Finland
A Warsaw Hold

Turkey: Selrahc
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Constantinople


Map

http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A8%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D325%3B%3C694%3A2347nu0mrj


A few surprises, for me as well. The Negotiation Phase shall last another 96 hours, so Thursday, 7/23, at noon, and orders will be due 24 hours later, Friday, 7/24, at noon. Times are GMT-5, EDT. You can submit orders early, and if I get all 7 orders in, I'll give 24 hours from that point, then end the season.

Also, please remember that you must be holding a supply depot at the end of the FALL turn for it to be added to your nations supply depots, and thus granting you another unit.

[Recaiden]

I am shocked as well. I mean, I expected Murska to betray me, but Gothicbob was a surprise.

[Robert Blackletter]

I am shocked as well. I mean, I expected Murska to betray me, but Gothicbob was a surprise.
If its any help, I do feel bad about it, especially after you made my amazing avatar

[RedScholarGypsy]

Notice:

24 hours until Negotiation Phase is over.

48 hours until Orders are due.

I'd like to end turns sooner, as it feels the game is going too slow. If you have your orders ready, feel free to turn them in; you can alter them later. I already have several orders in, but do NOT feel rushed. I gave 5 days to start for a reason.

[Zar Peter]

It would be great if the players could make a summary of their negotiations in the end of the game... I hope another game starts after my second vacation week.

[Reinholdt]

It would be great if the players could make a summary of their negotiations in the end of the game... I hope another game starts after my second vacation week.
Yeah. I know a game is going on here... but I can't see it!:smalleek:

[Zar Peter]

Yeah. I know a game is going on here... but I can't see it!:smalleek:

Yeah, all the fun for the players but nothing for spectators... how about we bet about next moves? The one who bets correct wins a point. Winner is the one with the most points in the end :smallbiggrin:

[Reinholdt]

Yeah, all the fun for the players but nothing for spectators... how about we bet about next moves? The one who bets correct wins a point. Winner is the one with the most points in the end :smallbiggrin:
Yes! And we can make the players sweat by coming up with totally inane moves about how one player is going to beat up on another and backstab that other one. :smallbiggrin:

[Zar Peter]

It's like a game of chess when the players are surrounded by 10 spectators and every time one player is attempting to move one spectator shouts "NO!!" or "I know a better move." or "Checkmate in three rounds."

[Reinholdt]

Exactly! For instance, I have it on good source (my mother's brother's cousin's best friend's pet dog) that England is going for Holland and Germany and Russia are going to fight over Sweden.

[Zar Peter]

Very interesting is the Austria - Turkey -Russia situation in the southeast. Will they hold? Will they fight? That's my favorite hot-spot there!

[Recaiden]

Exactly! For instance, I have it on good source (my mother's brother's cousin's best friend's pet dog) that England is going for Holland and Germany and Russia are going to fight over Sweden.

Actually, I heard that Holland has been promised to 4 different players by various sides. I bet Italy ends up with it.

[RedScholarGypsy]

It's easier for me to enjoy as I'm getting behind the scenes info, but I must admit it was a little slow. I do approve of the peanut gallery, but please keep actually good advice out of it, as it may influence the game unfairly. Inane stuff, go for it:smallbiggrin:.

[Robert Blackletter]

Exactly! For instance, I have it on good source (my mother's brother's cousin's best friend's pet dog) that England is going for Holland and Germany and Russia are going to fight over Sweden.


Rover talked! Thats one dead dog!

[Murska]

Sweden? SWEDEN?

Why'd anyone want Sweden? Hmm... to oppress the populace horribly, perhaps...

I'm sure the Austrians are going to backstab the Turk after Russia allows them to march through to Armenia...

[Recaiden]

Um, is there some special disadvantage to losing your home supply centers? Other than not being able to place units?

[Murska]

Home supply centers are like normal supply centers in that if you have less of those than armies, you have to disband armies, but there's also the added problem that you can only build new armies/fleets on home supply centers you own. So if you don't have any, you can't make more armies.

[RedScholarGypsy]

please note that During the Winter season of each year, you adjust your units based on how many supply depots you control at the end of the Fall season. If you have more, you build units in your home supply depots. If you have less, you have to disband a unit.

[EleventhHour]

*signs up on the waiting list for the next game?*

:smallsmile:

[Recaiden]

*signs up on the waiting list for the next game?*

:smallsmile:

Or if anyone drops out for some reason, you could probably take over if you'd like. Up to RSG to decide for sure though.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Edited first post to have a waiting list. Should have done that sooner. You'll definitly be in the next game EleventhHour. Also, how do you wish your name abbreviated, as it inevitably will be?*

*Trying to remember proper grammar for a complex sentence where independent clause is interrogative but dependant and ending clause is declarative. I'll go with this.

[Zar Peter]

I want on that list, too, please... but I'm on holidays in August again (one week) so I don't think it makes sense to join this game before August, 23th.

[Recaiden]

Edited first post to have a waiting list. Should have done that sooner. You'll definitly be in the next game EleventhHour. Also, how do you wish your name abbreviated, as it inevitably will be?*

*Trying to remember proper grammar for a complex sentence where independent clause is interrogative but dependant and ending clause is declarative. I'll go with this.

Well you could take the easy way out and be 11.
But I vote for some variation of Ven.

[EleventhHour]

EHR should be fine. :smalltongue:

Laying claim to England for the next one, if no spots open here. >.>

[RedScholarGypsy]

For now i think we'll be sticking with random placement. However, I will also take into account countries already played, so you won't get Italy twice in a row or such.

Also, Reinholdt, Dr. Bath, can you two give a rough date after which you can play?

[Reinholdt]

Hmmm... nope. So don't put me on the waiting list. I'll just heckle.

Zimbabwe will crush you all! *mad cackling*

[Jontom Xire]

Sweden? SWEDEN?

Why'd anyone want Sweden? Hmm... to oppress the populace horribly, perhaps...


It's full of cute and sexy women. Every girl from Sweden I've ever met was friendly, warm, affectionate, and very attractive.

Both of them! :)

[Murska]

It's full of cute and sexy women. Every girl from Sweden I've ever met was friendly, warm, affectionate, and very attractive.

Both of them! :)

Fine, fine, mess up my racial stereotypes and prejudices with actual real experiences. Hmpf.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Sorry for being late, but Negotiation Phase was over a half hour ago! Oh No!:smalltongue:

Anyway, you got 23.5 hours to get your Orders in/alter them. Good Luck!

[RedScholarGypsy]

Order Phase over.

Fall 1901
Orders:
Austria: Fleeing Coward
A Galicia - Rumania
A Serbia - Bulgaria
F Trieste - Albania

England: Gothicbob
F English Channel - Brest
F North Sea Convoys A Yorkshire - Belgium
A Yorkshire - Belgium

France: Recaiden
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Brest
A Picardy - Paris
A Spain Hold

Germany: Murska
A Burgundy - Marseilles
F Denmark - Sweden
A Kiel - Holland

Italy: Jontom Xire
A Tuscany - Piedmont
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Tunis
A Venice Hold

Russia: Mustadio
F Finland - Gulf of Bothnia
F Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw
A Warsaw Hold

Turkey: Selrahc
F Black Sea - Rumania
A Bulgaria - Greece
A Constantinople - Bulgaria


Map:

http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53665%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D326373%3A686347nu0mrj


Status:
Adjustments:

Austria: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1
France: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
Germany: Supp 6 Unit 3 Build 3
Italy: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1
Russia: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1


There were some huge surprises for me. I think I only predicted Italy accurately.

Also, for note: The Turkish fleet in Black Sea can only move Bul's Eastern coast, so to move from Black sea to Aeg it must go through Con.

All Build Orders must be received in 24 hours, so Noon Sat EDT. Choose Fleet or Army and home depot to build in. Fleets can only be built on Home Depots with coasts of course. Russia, if you every build a fleet in StP, please specify which coast(NC or SC) you wish to build on.

[billtodamax]

Murska was Germany, right? *high-fives*

[Recaiden]

So, Bob, you see no problem with Murska getting almost 1/2 the supply centers? Really?

[billtodamax]

I can't see any problem occuring in the near future (like Murska crushing you all)

[Recaiden]

I can't see any problem occuring in the near future (like Murska crushing you all)

Well, there are 2 things that could help out. Italy choosing to be on the "play out the rest of the game" side as opposed to the, "get betrayed and steamrollered by Murska" side, and Austria and Russia co-operating.

[Murska]

Eh. I didn't foresee that. But I guess it works.

[Fleeing Coward]

Austria wants to work with Russia to eliminate the greedy Turks.
Unfortunately, it appears that the Turks have done a very good job in brainwashing the Russians into believing that Austria is the devil incarnate.

[Selrahc]

Austria wants to work with Russia to eliminate the greedy Turks.
Unfortunately, it appears that the Turks have done a very good job in brainwashing the Russians into believing that Austria is the devil incarnate.

Well if you want to make things public... Lets examine that statement shall we?

I originally wanted three Balkan countries from you. Pretty reasonable for Turkey that doesn't want to get locked into an early and potentially deadly war.

In return you proposed I have two and engage in a suicidal war with Russia that would both aggravate someone who had been perfectly willing to compromise over the Balkans and lock me into a war that would put me completely at your mercy and prime for backstabbing. In return for one Russian territory while you took the rest.

Turkey needs the Balkans. You've moved into the Balkans in what looks like a deliberate attempt to lock me down and marginalize me. I'm not going to stand for it. Austria has gone mad and must be opposed.

[Zar Peter]

Austria has gone mad and must be opposed.

I love this quote.

The game getting interesting, the backstabbing begins openly :smallbiggrin:

[Fleeing Coward]

So instead, I should have let you have 3 of the 4 balkan states, leaving you in prime position to backstab me while engaging in a mutually destructive war against Russia myself while leaving myself open for attacks from Germany and Italy while I engage in said war?
I see how that makes a whole lot more sense.

I'm in a much tougher position than you are. I'm surrounded on all sides with the only relatively safe supply centres up for grabs been the Balkans. I offered you 2 of the Balkans as well as 2 supply centres of Russia, maybe a third depending on position if you were inclined to looking for conquest that way.

I got no choice but to play the bad guy to expand and I'm prepared to carve up any conquered land 50-50 or better with whoever supports me. All my offers were more than fair so stop trying to make me look like I'm trying to landlock you in.

I had also offered Russia the opportunity to conquer all of Turkey with my support when it became clear that greedy Turkey wouldn't budge on wanting all of the Balkans for himself and that offer still stand and I now make in public since Russia chose not to respond via PM.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Well, I don't have all build orders yet, so Neg phase will wait a bit. I'm looking for Builds from
GothicBob
Selrahc
Jontom Xire

I'll post once I get them.

[Jontom Xire]

Ummm, I want to make it completely clear that the following statement is my personal opinion on first looking at the map, and not my current political/military opinion. If you see what I mean:

========

At the start of the game there is only one set of free and easy supply centres for Autria to grab and one for Turkey. It happens to be the same set. There are two of you and 4 supply centres.

I think 2 each is a fair split.

And if anyone needs more it is Austria as he has 4 immediate neighbours who can easily attack him whereas Turkey only has two.

If I were playing Austria or Turkey I would happily accept a 2-2 split at the start of the game and would look very suspiciously at anyone who demanded 3 with threats.

[Murska]

My opinion is that Turkey has two possible routes of expansion. Austria, and Russia.

Austria is, indeed, surrounded, but it's too dangerous for Germany or Italy to attack him unless the alliances are clearly defined and strong so they don't get backstabbed. Same goes for him attacking either of those.

That's all.

[Selrahc]

At the start of the game there is only one set of free and easy supply centres for Autria to grab and one for Turkey. It happens to be the same set. There are two of you and 4 supply centres.

I think 2 each is a fair split.

And if anyone needs more it is Austria as he has 4 immediate neighbours who can easily attack him whereas Turkey only has two.


Look at how much that favours Austria. If Turkey takes those two centres then it has nowhere else to go. It stops. Austria can take two supply centres and still have multiple directions to expand into.

I was making a real and genuine offer of non aggression, the same thing I offered to both Italy and Russia in return for help in the Balkans. In order for it to be worth my while to essentially stop I need more incentive than two provinces.



My opinion is that Turkey has two possible routes of expansion. Austria, and Russia.

Technically I could have attacked Italy too. Here is the thing though; Russia and Italy offered peace and have acted peacefully. Austria offered threats and warfare.

I'm not going to stab the two factions who have given me most cause to trust them. It's called diplomacy, and Austria made the least effort at reaching a successful compromise with Turkey. Putting it down to greed is to do an injustice to its neighbours.

[Murska]

When Austria takes those centers there it has nowhere to go, it has to attack some nation. Same with Turkey, he just has less nations to choose from.

Attack on Italy would, in my opinion, leave Turkey very weakly protected and with his fleet away he'd have to trust Russia a lot.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Okay, so, I'm an idiot. Gothicbob had his build in his Fall orders. My apologies for the lateness.

Winter 1901

Map
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E25 6%3EWSNRCG%3D326399%3A879347nu0mrj

Negotiation phase for Spring '02 will last until noon, Wednesday 7/29. Orders will be due by noon, Thursday, 7/30. Please note that I will be working this week and next so if you can have your orders submitted before 8 A.M. EDT the day orders are due, I'll post them in the morning and we won't have to wait until my lunch break for me to post.

Please note the rules on retreats:
"A dislodged unit must retreat to an adjacent province that it could ordinarily move to if unopposed by other units. Sometimes a retreat is made deeper into enemy territory.

A Unit can not retreat to:
* A province that is occupied,
* the province from which the attacker came,
* a province that was left vacant by a standoff the same turn.

If there is no available province to which to retreat, the dislodged unit is immediately disbanded and removed from the mapboard."

I figure they may be important for the next couple of turns.

[Fleeing Coward]

Technically I could have attacked Italy too. Here is the thing though; Russia and Italy offered peace and have acted peacefully. Austria offered threats and warfare.

I'm not going to stab the two factions who have given me most cause to trust them. It's called diplomacy, and Austria made the least effort at reaching a successful compromise with Turkey. Putting it down to greed is to do an injustice to its neighbours.

So after you eliminate me you'll just sit around peacefully and leave your 2 allies in peace? I've been straightforward through this whole affair and only made promises I can and intend to keep.

Turkey on the other hand has decided to make empty promises that you won't be able to keep in the long run. I bet that if Turkey wins control of the Balkans, he'll immediately set his sights on the supply centres that he promised to give to his "allies".

This is a game after all, don't think for one second that Selrahc will be content to just take the Balkans - once I'm gone, his only options are Italy and Russia so you don't need much imagination to know what he'll do next.

[Selrahc]

So after you eliminate me you'll just sit around peacefully and leave your 2 allies in peace? I've been straightforward through this whole affair and only made promises I can and intend to keep.

I'm not going for a complete victory. I'm going for a seat at the end of the game. This is my first game, and I came up with ambitions that I felt I could achieve as a novice. I think a three or four way draw would be a relatively good first game result.

It looks to me that if I have the 7 supply depots that make up the Balkans and Turkey then I will be damnably hard to destroy, and able to exert a real influence if someone looks likely to run away with the game.

That is my gameplan, relatively modest as it is. I intend to stick to all agreements I have made as long as they won't directly cause me to lose.

[Murska]

"Hey, Murska, what's your stance on the Eastern conflict brewing in the Balkans?"

"It's very interesting indeed.

From my viewpoint it looks like Austria's position in the Balkans right now is much better than Turkey's. Greece seems a bit lonely... And Austria can pull up a lot of support.

Of course, Russia can change all this. But then, is Turkey sure Russian 'help' leaves him with more than the scraps?

And there's always Italy. Watching... waiting..."

[Fleeing Coward]

I'm not going for a complete victory. I'm going for a seat at the end of the game. This is my first game, and I came up with ambitions that I felt I could achieve as a novice. I think a three or four way draw would be a relatively good first game result.

It looks to me that if I have the 7 supply depots that make up the Balkans and Turkey then I will be damnably hard to destroy, and able to exert a real influence if someone looks likely to run away with the game.

That is my gameplan, relatively modest as it is. I intend to stick to all agreements I have made as long as they won't directly cause me to lose.

So you entered this game to draw???

Doesn't matter if it's your first game or not, if you play, you should be aiming to win. Where's the fun in drawing?

This is my first game here too but I'm certainly not going to play for a draw just because of it. There's absolutely no challenge in that at all.

[Selrahc]

Doesn't matter if it's your first game or not, if you play, you should be aiming to win. Where's the fun in drawing?


In entering the game I had a look at the rules, I had a look at some background information. Most games are apparently drawn by a coalition of a few players who can remain in stalemate. Its hard to get an outright winner, because the moment someone takes a dominant position the other players will move to stop them.

The fun in drawing is that you can use diplomatic and strategic skills to avoid elimination and end the game with more than you started with.



This is my first game here too but I'm certainly not going to play for a draw just because of it. There's absolutely no challenge in that at all.

Well yeah. There is. There are choices to be made that will determine whether survival is a possibility. For example, if I'd taken your offer and then shut down til end game would I have had enough territory to prevent myself being winkled out of my hidey hole by any tyrant who took it as their fancy? I estimated that I could not. So I have to fight this war to take up a defensive position.

Later on, if I survive now, there will probably be a situation where someone gets to a dominant position and I will have to join in a coalition to stop them. That will also be interesting and challenging.

Between those two points there is less obvious potential for conflict but I foresee some interesting things coming up that will threaten me, sheerly because we're in a situation with lots of people plotting and scheming.


It's interesting though that you initially chided me for being too greedy, and now you say I'm too conservative....

[Fleeing Coward]

Well yeah. There is. There are choices to be made that will determine whether survival is a possibility. For example, if I'd taken your offer and then shut down til end game would I have had enough territory to prevent myself being winkled out of my hidey hole by any tyrant who took it as their fancy? I estimated that I could not. So I have to fight this war to take up a defensive position.

Later on, if I survive now, there will probably be a situation where someone gets to a dominant position and I will have to join in a coalition to stop them. That will also be interesting and challenging.

Between those two points there is less obvious potential for conflict but I foresee some interesting things coming up that will threaten me, sheerly because we're in a situation with lots of people plotting and scheming.

It's interesting though that you initially chided me for being too greedy, and now you say I'm too conservative....

My initial offer included most of Russia too so it I don't see how you figured that wouldn't give you enough of an army to force a stalemate.

Regardless of how previous game may have ended, it's my philosophy that you never enter a game to play for anything less than a win.
If situations change later that may force you to play for a draw, then sure, go for the draw but entering the game with the aim of drawing is a defeatist attitude in my opinion.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Sorry work has been 14-hour days this week, and I haven't been posting reminders. I'm still waiting for one set of orders, and then I'll post the map; hopefully I'll have internet access tomorrow.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Orders are in. My apologies for the roughness; I'll clean this up later.

http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E25 6%3EWSNRCG%3D3264%3B%3B833%3A347nu0mrj


Austria:
F Albania - Greece
A Budapest - Rumania
A Galicia Supports A Budapest - Rumania
A Serbia Supports A Budapest - Rumania

England:
A Belgium - Picardy
F English Channel - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F London - English Channel
F North Sea Hold

France:
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Brest
A Paris - Burgundy
A Spain - Marseilles

Germany:
A Berlin - Kiel
A Holland - Ruhr
F Kiel - Denmark
A Marseilles - Gascony
A Munich - Burgundy
F Sweden - Norway

Italy:
F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles
F Tunis - Western Mediterranean
A Venice - Tuscany

Russia:
F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
F Sevastopol Supports F Black Sea - Rumania
A Ukraine - Galicia
A Warsaw Supports A Ukraine - Galicia

Turkey:
F Black Sea - Rumania
A Constantinople Supports A Greece - Bulgaria
A Greece - Bulgaria
A Smyrna Hold


Austria/Fleeing Coward, please issue retreat order for Galicia. Choices are Bohemia, Silesia, and Vienna.

[Robert Blackletter]

That went better then I thought it would.

[Fleeing Coward]

Retreating to Vienna

[Murska]

Aw. Russia seems to want a war with me. :smallconfused:

What a pity, but I guess it's unavoidable.

[Mustiado]

Well, you have to remember after your oh so diplomatic remarks as "Do what I tell you or there will be blood*" I may have not felt like cooperating. Besides, I still have made no direct move on your holdings. Your days of rampant over expansion seem to be done, however.

*Paraphrased for time

[Murska]

Hey, I gave you a few suggestions as to what you could do, and then told you "Don't do this or there will be blood."

Same as Italy saying to Austria 'don't attack Venice or we'll be at war'. It's obvious.

[Recaiden]

Aw. Russia seems to want a war with me. :smallconfused:

What a pity, but I guess it's unavoidable.

You seem to want a war with everyone who isn't England.

[Murska]

You're the only one I was attacking. :smalltongue:

But, luckily since I hate two-front wars, the situation with Russia was resolved. It appears he thought he could support Warsaw's defense with a fleet from Prussia or Livonia.

[RedScholarGypsy]

New map including retreat:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53693%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D32653%3A%3A683347nu0mrj

Neg phase will last until 8/3, Monday.
Orders will be due 8/4, Tuesday.
Build/Disband Orders will be due 8/5, Wednesday.

Hope everyone is still enjoying themselves.

[Jontom Xire]

I'm sorry and I should have sorted this out sooner, but I'm on holiday this coming week starting today, and I need a stand-in.

Dr Bath is on the waiting list, so I'll PM him with plans etc. and hope he can pick up from where I left off - I've already submitted orders for this turn.

[Murska]

My prediction was right. Turkey is in trouble against Austria but Russia's the deciding factor. :smalltongue:

[Dr. Bath]

Okay I think I can do this. So I am now Jontom for a week.

I feel funny.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Ugh, my bad again. Please sumbit orders those who have not.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Ho boy. Blood in the water, boys! :smallbiggrin:

Map
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53693%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D3266973%3A44347nu0mrj

Orders
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
F Greece - Bulgaria(sc)
A Serbia Supports A Budapest - Rumania
A Vienna - Galicia

England:
F English Channel - Brest
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F English Channel - Brest
F North Sea - Norway
A Picardy Supports A Gascony - Paris

France:
F Brest Supports A Paris - Picardy
A Paris - Picardy
A Spain - Portugal

Germany:
F Denmark - Kiel
A Gascony - Paris
A Kiel - Berlin
A Munich - Silesia
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc)
A Ruhr - Kiel

Italy:
A Piedmont - Marseilles
A Tuscany - Venice
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Gulf of Lyon
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)

Russia:
F Baltic Sea - Prussia
A Galicia - Vienna
F Sevastopol Supports F Black Sea - Rumania
A Warsaw - Galicia

Turkey:
F Black Sea - Rumania
A Bulgaria - Greece
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Ankara

Status
Austria: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
England: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
France: Supp 1 Unit 3 Remove 2
Germany: Supp 8 Unit 6 Build 2
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0


Please note that
A) I moved France's units which retreated for you, Recaiden, to the only positions available which would allow you to keep both units. You still have to disband two, but now You have a choice. Hopefully this is okay with you.

B) Turkey can only build one unit because only one home depot is available.

C) The Turkish Army in Bul disbanded automatically because it had no possible retreat path.

D) I'm a flaming idiot. :smallfrown:

I'm changing the times to 9P.M. UTC - 4, as having it be noon for me seems to not be working out at all. Build Orders will be due tomorrow 8/6; Spring 03 Negotiation phase will end Sunday 8/9; Move Orders will be due 8/10
Please have your build/disband orders to me in 24 hours please. Thank you.

[Fleeing Coward]

RedScholarGypsy, action I sent to you were:

F Gre - Bul
A Vie - Gal
A Bud - Rum
A Ser S A Bud - Rum

That means that all my forces and Selrahc's remain deadlocked in the position of the previous turn since everything I expected to happen did happen.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Oh wow. I even double checked and still missed that. My apologies; I will be altering the map in the last post accordingly.

[Recaiden]

I hope Italy dies next. Just saying.

[Mustiado]

Oh look. Murska lied his face off and decided to continue on his inevitable warhawking campaign anyway. This is my shock and surprise *bored face*

Seriously, do you ever get tired of altering reality just to fit your purposes?

[Robert Blackletter]

I hope Italy dies next. Just saying.

Why? I have done as much damage to you?

[RedScholarGypsy]

All deadline times are 9P.M. UTC - 4. Spring '03 Negotiation phase will end Sunday 8/9; Move Orders will be due 8/10; Retreat Orders, if not included with Move Orders(this is encouraged please do so if you can) are due 8/11.

Map
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A9%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D3266%3B93398347nu0mrj

Orders
Austria:
Build F Trieste

England:
Build F Edinburgh
Build A London

France:
Remove A Portugal
Remove A Burgundy

Germany:
Build F Kiel
Build A Munich

Italy:
Build F Naples
Build A Rome

Russia:
Remove F Sevastopol

[Robert Blackletter]

Hi all, I'm away until 1 pm (GMT) sat. so if you need to message about alliences etc don't expect an answer quickly.

[Jontom Xire]

I hope Italy dies next. Just saying.

Why? But anyway, thanks for giving me Marseilles and Spain in one single go. You could have stymied both my units with your one unit and then (if you had enough supply centres) built in Marseilles.

Oh, and - I'm back.

[Recaiden]

Why?


thanks

That's why.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I'll be honest: when Recaiden sent in his orders, I was positive he was throwing his depots to Italy to screw Murska and Gothicbob. Hell, it's what I would've done... and have done, now that I think about it.:smallamused:

[Recaiden]

Apparently I need a physical map to have any idea what I'm doing.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Reminder:
Negotiation Phase Spring '03 is over in 2 hours.
Move Orders Spring '03 are due in 26 hours.

That is all.:smallsmile:

[RedScholarGypsy]

Spring 1903

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5369%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D3268678469347nu0mrj
Orders:
Austria:
A Budapest Supports A Vienna - Galicia
F Greece - Bulgaria(sc)
A Serbia Supports F Greece - Bulgaria(ec)
F Trieste Hold
A Vienna - Galicia

England:
F Brest Hold
F Edinburgh - North Sea
A London - Yorkshire
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
F Norway Supports F Edinburgh - North Sea
A Picardy Supports F Brest

France:
F Gascony, no move received

Germany:
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Prussia
F Denmark - Sweden
F Kiel - Baltic Sea
A Munich - Bohemia
A Paris - Gascony
A Ruhr Hold
A Silesia - Prussia
F St Petersburg(nc) Hold

Italy:
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Marseilles, no move received
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Rome - Naples
F Spain(sc), no move received
A Venice - Apulia

Russia:
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Prussia - Livonia
A Warsaw - Moscow

Turkey:
A Ankara - Smyrna
F Black Sea - Rumania
A Bulgaria Supports F Black Sea - Rumania
A Constantinople Supports A Bulgaria

NOTICE: English Fleet Edinburgh moved to the North Sea, not Norwegian. Orders and Map have been properly adjusted.

Apologies for the lateness once again.

All end times are 9 P.M. UTC-4
Fall 1903 Negotiation Phase is over 8/13, Thursday.
Move Orders are due 8/14, Friday.
Retreats are due 8/15, Saturday.
Build orders are due 8/16, Sunday.
Spring 1904 Negoitation Phase is over 8/19, Wednesday.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Orders are due tonight 9 P.M. Due to the lateness of this notification, I'm not going to hold it too strict. Like I ever do =P.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Fall 1903

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E25 6%3EWSNRCG%3D3269524378347nu0mrj

Orders:Austria:
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Rumania
A Galicia - Vienna
F Greece - Bulgaria(sc)
A Serbia - Rumania
F Trieste - Albania

England:
F Brest Hold
F North Sea Convoys A Yorkshire - Belgium
F Norway Supports F St Petersburg(nc)
A Picardy, no move received
F Portugal Hold
A Yorkshire - Belgium

France:
F Gascony, no move received

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Sweden
A Berlin - Silesia
A Bohemia - Galicia
A Paris Hold
A Prussia Supports A Berlin - Silesia
A Ruhr Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) Hold
F Sweden - Denmark

Italy:
A Apulia Hold
F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Marseilles Hold
A Naples Hold
F Spain(sc) - Gulf of Lyon
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Ionian Sea

Russia:
F Livonia, no move received
A Moscow, no move received
A Warsaw, no move received

Turkey:
A Bulgaria Supports F Rumania
A Constantinople Supports A Bulgaria
F Rumania Supports A Bulgaria
A Smyrna Supports A Constantinople

I don't like doing this, but I am finalizing orders without receiving from Russia.

I will be updating the map once I receive Retreat Orders from Turkey/Selrahc.

I will be away from my Computer until Tuesday Night, 8/18. The only Build order I need at present is from England/Gothicbob.

Recaiden has been killed. He was France.

Apologies once again for the irregular nature of the updates. Thank you all for sticking with it.

[Jontom Xire]

Not wanting to be picky, but:

1) If France is dead, why is there still a French unit on the map?
2) Doesn't England now own Portugal? Shouldn't it be coloured in to say so?
3) Which of Turkey's units needs to retreat?
4) Isn't this Fall 1903, not Winter 1903 (Winter being after build orders)?
5) Doesn't Austria now own Rumania? Shouldn't it be coloured in? Doesn't that give Austria an extra build?


I'd also like to say sorry to Recaiden, but as far as I can see I had two choices in the start game - attack France (getting as much support from other nations as possible) or attack Austria (getting as much support from other nations as possible). Austria (Fleeing Coward) got in there first with an offer of a non-agression pact and some believable promises of future peace. Plus other nations (Germany and England) made quick peace/alliance offers and also suggested a joint attack on France. As a result in just a few turns I have doubled my supply centres and removed a nearby threat from the map.

I do feel for Recaiden though as it has ruined the game for him, losing so early against 3-1 opposition.

[Robert Blackletter]

I'd also like to say sorry to Recaiden, but as far as I can see I had two choices in the start game - attack France (getting as much support from other nations as possible) or attack Austria (getting as much support from other nations as possible). Austria (Fleeing Coward) got in there first with an offer of a non-agression pact and some believable promises of future peace. Plus other nations (Germany and England) made quick peace/alliance offers and also suggested a joint attack on France. As a result in just a few turns I have doubled my supply centres and removed a nearby threat from the map.

I do feel for Recaiden though as it has ruined the game for him, losing so early against 3-1 opposition.

Seconded, Sorry Recaiden, but Germany got in there first.

[Recaiden]

Well, Germany was much better at this that I was, I guess. I still hope Italy dies next.

[Murska]

Well, Germany was much better at this that I was, I guess. I still hope Italy dies next.

Yeah, sorry. My options were, at the start, to quickly ally with you to kill England or to quickly ally with England to kill you. You've been playing before and I was a bit fuzzy on the rules of naval combat so I decided it'd probably work better against you. I wish you get luckier next game. :smallsmile:

[Jontom Xire]

Well, Germany was much better at this that I was, I guess. I still hope Italy dies next.

Why me?

I pretty much had to ally with Germany and England. Can't attack them, so why be enemies? Plus someone you can't attack but who can attack someone you can also attack makes a perfect ally.

[Selrahc]

Well I'm clearly going to die in the next few turns, but I would still like to say that Fleeing Cowards offer of an even split of the Balkans to me at the beginning of the game was very very poor.

I've been bogged down in the Balkans and I mishandled the war so badly in the early stages that I kind of deserved to be. But if I'd taken FC's offer, I would have still been bogged down in the Balkans.. and I'd have accepted the situation willingly without trying to stop it.

Fleeing Coward, your offer was bad. But you are one lucky son of a gun. A combination of bad knowledge of the game and poor coordination left you alive. Losing Bulgaria at the start, failing to coordinate the attack on Rumania, building a stuck army instead of a mobile fleet.. etc. However this situation came about though, you and Jontom have me beaten. Congratulations.

[Fleeing Coward]

Well I'm clearly going to die in the next few turns, but I would still like to say that Fleeing Cowards offer of an even split of the Balkans to me at the beginning of the game was very very poor.

I've been bogged down in the Balkans and I mishandled the war so badly in the early stages that I kind of deserved to be. But if I'd taken FC's offer, I would have still been bogged down in the Balkans.. and I'd have accepted the situation willingly without trying to stop it.


My beginning offer was even split of the balkans AND an alliance against Russia. I was more than willing to offer you a split of Russia too so I don't see how you would have been bogged down.

You pretty much forced my hand here. I had continued trying to offer a diplomatic solution that'd at least give you something in the Balkans and an opportunity to expand into Russia with my assistance as late as Spring this year yet you kept turning me down.

[Selrahc]

You pretty much forced my hand here. I had continued trying to offer a diplomatic solution that'd at least give you something in the Balkans and an opportunity to expand into Russia with my assistance as late as Spring this year yet you kept turning me down.

Like I said, I'm not stabbing people in the back.

I mean I might have done if I'd known that he would go AWOL and extinguish any hopes I had of salvaging this, but even then.. ehhh.

I just really don't like attacking people who I made a good faith agreement with. If we would have been able to deal, it involved me stabbing someone in the back.

I still don't think I forced your hand. You evidently made deals with Germany and Italy limiting your expansion in those directions. Fine. That left you looking in my direction and at Russia for expansion. It's all worked out in the end, but this was all your choice. Nobody forced your hand but you.

[Mustiado]

I can't apologize enough to everyone, especially Selrahc, for missing the last phase of the game. I was unexpectedly hospitalized, and health comes before the boards, I'm afraid. I used to be able to update from the hospital, but they web-sensed it from the last time I was there.

Again, I apologize.

[Selrahc]

Hey no worries man. I saw your post on one of the werewolf games saying that you were were going to be away, so I was grimly expecting it. (Although I half heartedly hoped you might have thrown some orders in before hand). Never mind though. Hope you're feeling better.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Damn, Mustadio, I'm sorry. I hope you are better.


Not wanting to be picky, but:

1) If France is dead, why is there still a French unit on the map?
2) Doesn't England now own Portugal? Shouldn't it be coloured in to say so?
3) Which of Turkey's units needs to retreat?
4) Isn't this Fall 1903, not Winter 1903 (Winter being after build orders)?
5) Doesn't Austria now own Rumania? Shouldn't it be coloured in? Doesn't that give Austria an extra build?

The answer to all of these questions save #5 is that, technically, until Turkey retreated out of Rum, it was still Fall 1903. I named it Winter 1903 because I was going to edit it once the retreat order came in. However, to stave off later confusion, I'm doing a new map altogether. As for 5, I already had Austria's build in, JX. I will name maps that have incomplete retreats as Summer and Autumn, as that's what the program does. Sorry for the confusion.

As for France's death, he does share a little of the blame by admitting he is experienced with the game. Also, this is a common fate for France; it's off balance by access to supply depots, and over the last 50-60 years France has had the second highest win percentage of the seven countries.

Winter 1903
Map
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5366%3B%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D3269%3C%3B4%3A55347nu0mrj

Orders
Austria:
F Rumania - Black Sea

Build Orders
Austria:
Build A Trieste

England:
Build F Edinburgh

France:
Remove F Gascony

Status
Austria: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
England: Supp 7 Unit 6 Build 1
France: Supp 0 Unit 1 Remove 1
Germany: Supp 8 Unit 8 Build 0
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Russia: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Spring 1904:
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Friday 8/21
Orders are due Saturday 8/22
Retreats are due Sunday 8/23

I hope everyone is enjoying it; anyone who is dead is more than welcomed to gossip with me about the game as it continues:smallbiggrin:.

[Jontom Xire]

Aaargghh - I'm still confused.

In earlier years, the "Spring" map came after spring orders had been processed, but this "Spring" map comes after builds and retreats had been processed. Previously the "Winter" map came after builds and retreats had been processed.

See http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6569281&postcount=75 where Germany has just moved into Marseilles and owns it because it was Fall orders that moved him there (if it were Spring orders he would have to wait a phase). It is titled "Fall 1901". The next map is at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6577766&postcount=90 and is titled "Winter 1901" and includes the build order results.

I have been saving all the maps as the game goes on to my hard drive, and using the title of the post as the name of the file. So this change is confusing me when I try to review the game - I keep feeling I missed submitting orders for a phase.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Ah I see what happened now; I skipped a name in the naming cycle. My bad; I fixed the map names.

[RedScholarGypsy]

BTW, Neg Phase is over. Please get orders in. Thank you.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Spring 1904

Finally, we're getting around to killing people. Let the blood letting begin! :smallamused:

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5366%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D326%3A%3A8%3B454347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Albania - Greece
A Budapest - Rumania
F Greece - Aegean Sea
A Rumania - Sevastopol
A Trieste - Serbia
A Vienna - Galicia

England:
A Belgium - Holland
F Brest - English Channel
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
F North Sea Hold
F Norway Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Picardy - Brest
F Portugal Hold

Germany:
F Denmark - Sweden
A Galicia - Ukraine
A Paris Hold
A Prussia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
A Ruhr Hold
A Silesia - Warsaw
F St Petersburg(nc) Hold
F Sweden - Baltic Sea

Italy:
A Apulia Hold
F Eastern Mediterranean Convoys A Naples - Syria
F Gulf of Lyon - Marseilles
F Ionian Sea Convoys A Naples - Syria
A Marseilles - Burgundy
A Naples - Syria

Russia:
F Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Warsaw - Prussia

Turkey:
F Black Sea - Sevastopol
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople Supports A Smyrna
A Smyrna Supports A Constantinople

I require retreat orders for
Russia A Warsaw
Germany F St.P (nc)

Please have them in by 9 P.M. tomorrow UTC - 4

The next Negotiation Phase has not yet started.

[Murska]

Ouch. Stabbed.

Well, from Italy that was a surprisingly dumb move since there is NO WAY for him to stop england from getting all of my centers.

EDIT: Do I actually have to say I'm moving my fleet to the only available location, Bar?

[RedScholarGypsy]

Summer 1904

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A9%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D326%3A%3A%3B8465347nu0mrj

Orders:
Germany:
F St Petersburg(nc) - Barents Sea

Russia:
A Warsaw - Moscow

Nah, both of you only had one retreat possibility. I just didn't realize it last night.:smallredface:

Edit:
Forgot to say the usual.
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Tuesday 8/25
Orders are due Wednesday 8/26
Retreats are due Thursday 8/27

[RedScholarGypsy]

Neg phase over. Please get my your moves.

[Robert Blackletter]

My orders have been submitted. I ask for a little leeway next negation phase as getting married on Friday so may be late in getting orders in.

[RedScholarGypsy]

congrats! and granted of course:smallsmile:

[RedScholarGypsy]

Fall 1904

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3C2%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D326%3B%3A2%3A789347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Constantinople
A Budapest - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Greece Supports A Serbia - Bulgaria
A Rumania - Sevastopol
A Serbia - Bulgaria

England:
A Brest Supports A Burgundy - Paris
F English Channel - Belgium
A Holland - Kiel
F North Sea - Denmark
F Norway Supports F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea
F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea
F Portugal - Mid-Atlantic Ocean

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
F Barents Sea - St Petersburg(nc)
A Paris - Brest
A Prussia - Berlin
A Ruhr - Munich
F Sweden - Norway
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Moscow
A Warsaw - Moscow

Italy:
A Apulia - Venice
A Burgundy - Paris
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
F Marseilles Hold
A Syria Supports F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna

Russia:
F Livonia, no move received
A Moscow, no move received
A St Petersburg, no move received

Turkey:
F Black Sea - Ankara
A Bulgaria - Greece
A Constantinople Supports A Smyrna
A Smyrna Supports A Constantinople

Winter 1904 does not begin until all retreats are completed. This is why the supply depots have not changed to the appropriate color yet. All I need is Murska's, as A Smr must retreat to Arm or be disbanded.

And now all out war starts. I can't wait.:smallbiggrin:

[Fleeing Coward]

Feel like guessing why England and Italy move against you now Murska? :smallamused:

[Murska]

I sort of guessed that. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Well, there's no point in me playing anymore, with the entire game allied against me before I had time to backstab anyone. England, I'm moving allout against Austria so you can get my centers. Have a good wedding.

EDIT2: I retreat to Gas.

[Fleeing Coward]

Sorry Murska, nothing personal. It was a simple case of looking ater my interests.
Like Jontom, I'm more than happy to settle for a 3 way draw while it was pretty clear from my first conversation with you that you were going for the outright win.

[Jontom Xire]

I sort of guessed that. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Well, there's no point in me playing anymore, with the entire game allied against me before I had time to backstab anyone. England, I'm moving allout against Austria so you can get my centers. Have a good wedding.

EDIT2: I retreat to Gas.

Oh I wouldn't say that. You tried to backstab me, it just bounced :) And frankly I reckon you backstabbed England even before that, he just didn't realise it. Did you really not realise that cutting England off from expansion into Russia is tantamount to a declaration of war in these kind of games? If I was England I'd have been irate with you several turns before you tried to Get England and Austria to attack me. The only problem with your strategy is that trying to get someone to attack their ally reveals that you cannot be trusted. Austria saw me going to quite large lengths to avoid attacking him. It told him something. That I was not interested in quick gains and greedy advances but in friendship, alliance, and trust. So when you told Austria that you had planned to get England to advance against me and that he should do the same, the first thing Austria did (after convincing you that he was going to go along with your plan) was to warn me. Because by doing so you revealed yourself as untrustworthy.

So, two similar power allies. One has shown himself to be trustworthy, the other to be untrustworthy. Who would YOU ally with?

And England wasn't far behind Austria in aligning with me against you. But then back in the first early turns he had already suggested that he and I should have a gentleman's agreement in our little alliance that if you should turn against either of us and conspire with the other that we should let each other know and team up against you.

I was really hoping that this game might mend some bridges, that you wouldn't backstab me and that we might FINALLY have just ONE game where we could work together. Now I know that I can never ever truly trust you.

[Selrahc]

And England wasn't far behind Austria in aligning with me against you. But then back in the first early turns he had already suggested that he and I should have a gentleman's agreement in our little alliance that if you should turn against either of us and conspire with the other that we should let each other know and team up against you.

Heh.. uh I wouldn't be so quick to label England as totally trustworthy. Since just last turn he was telling me to stall the Austro-Italian advance for as long as I could while he moved into a better position to attack.


Also, I can't believe you were complaining about your starting position earlier. It's like a brilliant version of the Austrian one, the same way the British one is a brilliant version of the Turkish one. To my mind Austria and Turkey are kind of shafted on starts. Austria is very vulnerable, but has a lot of room to expand. Turkey has no room to expand but is easy to defend. Italy has the Austrian central position, but is hard to attack. England has the Turkish ease of defence, but with a plethora of options for expansion.

[Fleeing Coward]

If gothicbob chooses to backstab me, I'm fully prepared to defend against him with all my forces and just completely capitulate to Jontom to let him win outright. Same if Jontom chooses to attack me, I'll capitulate to gothicbob.

Basically I'm going to do everything I can to ensure a 3 way draw and if either of my 2 allies chooses to be greedy, I'll make sure that the other one wins.

[Selrahc]

So what happened to "Going for a draw is essentially dishonest/idiotic"? :smalltongue:

[RedScholarGypsy]

Autumn 1904

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53665%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D326%3B%3A56674347nu0mrj

Orders:
Germany:
A Paris - Gascony

Turkey:
A Smyrna - Armenia

Status:
Austria: Supp 9 Unit 6 Build 3
England: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
France: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Germany: Supp 6 Unit 8 Remove 2
Italy: Supp 8 Unit 6 Build 2
Russia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Turkey: Supp 2 Unit 3 Remove 1

Well, one down, two on the way, and a fourth being stabbed enough to warrant the Julius Caesar Award. Things are looking good.

As for the truce, if all remaining players agree to a draw, then it is. I prefer Blazes of Glory, but I also accept that a lot of times the cards do not get dealt that way.

As for strength of countries. From 1969 to 1991 Percentage of Outright Wins for each Power as a % of all Outright Wins; then Percentage of Outright Wins for each Power as a % of all Completed Games
Rank
Austria / 11.89 / 7.29 / 5
England / 11.14 / 6.83 / 6
France / 16.57 / 10.15 / 3
Germany / 17.13 10.50 / 2
Italy / 10.67 / 6.54 / 7
Russia / 17.70 / 10.84 / 1
Turkey / 14.89 / 9.12 / 4

Most widely accepted stats as far as I've ever learned. I've sometimes seen France 2/Germany 3, but as you can see the % themselves are close enough as it's not that much a difference, and players can overcome. I could go into why they are ranked as they are and how it makes sense, but I have limited time before I need to leave for work. >.>

As for the 'mending bridges', please don't carry stuff from this game to other games/real life. I've acted like an utter bastard playing this game, and it's one of those "leave what happened here at the board" type of games. The instructions of some editions blatantly stated that you should at times lie, and encouraged you to make lying part of your strategy. Whether or not it works is another matter, especially if it's expected.

Finally, unless GothicBob was willing to assault Italy and Murska was willing to leave himself vulnerable to show he was setting up a Stab, England and Germany would have to kill each other. There is the Eastern Trio(Turkey, Austria, and Russia) and the Western(England, France, and Germany) and Italy in the middle. In each Trio, one is in the middle of the map(Germany and Austria) and has a very hard time surviving unless it kills the other two. Germany has an easier time though since England/France is a very difficult alliance to maintain, with London and Brest being so close and usually busy building depots. I'd go on, but A) I don't want to seem like an obnoxious know-it-all, 2) I need to go to work, and D) the game is still on!

Though for my 2 cents on trustworthiness, I'd work with any one of the seven players would played/are playing in an alliance.

[Robert Blackletter]

Heh.. uh I wouldn't be so quick to label England as totally trustworthy. Since just last turn he was telling me to stall the Austro-Italian advance for as long as I could while he moved into a better position to attack.


Last post as a single man (woo)

Well i was going to feed you false info if it looked like you were going to put up a good fight. I did it with France more then once. (though the second time he believe more out of desperation then anything else). While I will admit I am greedy, I am not stupid enough to attack allies needlessly. you are not a threat but you might have prolonged the fight needlessly. At the moment me, FC and JX are suffering from M.A.D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction) so i can't attack them, even with the little help you would provide.



Oh I wouldn't say that. You tried to backstab me, it just bounced :) And frankly I reckon you backstabbed England even before that, he just didn't realise it.Did you really not realise that cutting England off from expansion into Russia is tantamount to a declaration of war in these kind of games?

Oh I realise it but you don't throw away a tool until there no use for it left. I knew I would have to betray one of you when he did that, i just looked for the more trust worthy one, which from what I read is JX.





If I was England I'd have been irate with you several turns before you tried to Get England and Austria to attack me. The only problem with your strategy is that trying to get someone to attack their ally reveals that you cannot be trusted. Austria saw me going to quite large lengths to avoid attacking him. It told him something. That I was not interested in quick gains and greedy advances but in friendship, alliance, and trust. So when you told Austria that you had planned to get England to advance against me and that he should do the same, the first thing Austria did (after convincing you that he was going to go along with your plan) was to warn me. Because by doing so you revealed yourself as untrustworthy.

While I like the quick gains, in games like this, that is always a losing strategy. Murska had the rep and the moves he was giving me left me open to much.





And England wasn't far behind Austria in aligning with me against you. But then back in the first early turns he had already suggested that he and I should have a gentleman's agreement in our little alliance that if you should turn against either of us and conspire with the other that we should let each other know and team up against you.

Again apart from the rep that Murska has, it made sense for Germany to betray one or the other power eventually. That what i would have done in His shoes allied with two western powers to take out the third. Then get one of the alliance to fight against his self while sending a token force to "help" my chosen ally. If he controlled his greed and let a equal building of forces at the beginning then his plan may have succeeded

Edit: the weakesk three are winning? Woo

[Fleeing Coward]

So what happened to "Going for a draw is essentially dishonest/idiotic"? :smalltongue:

That went out the door when you bogged me down in the Balkans.
I came into the game going for the win naturally but times change and it's adapt or die :smalltongue:

[Jontom Xire]

Heh.. uh I wouldn't be so quick to label England as totally trustworthy. Since just last turn he was telling me to stall the Austro-Italian advance for as long as I could while he moved into a better position to attack.


It's possible he was feeding misinformation to you on the grounds that you were feeding it to Germany.

When I suggested to England that he warn Russia of the impending attack on German and then got a PM from Russia warning me of the same (more or less) then I had a better basis of trusting England. Similarly if Murska gets a PM from you with a forward from England stating that he's about to attack me then Germany is more likely to believe England and so not defend against England at all.

And I never said I totally trusted them. I may have withdrawn from Spain, but I had troops in Marseilles and Bay of Lyon just in case the fleet in Portugal decided to try and take Spain. I extended trust to England but with reservations and he proved himself worthy of trust (although a turn slow to move out of Portugal). I did the same with FC. The first turn I left my army in Venice just in case the fleet in Trieste decided to attack. FC extended trust to me by moving away from Trieste (although not so far he couldn't come back if needed) and I reciprocated the following turn by moving out of Venice.

Since then we've been moving in and out of Trieste and Venice as needed without worrying about being backstabbed.



Also, I can't believe you were complaining about your starting position earlier. It's like a brilliant version of the Austrian one, the same way the British one is a brilliant version of the Turkish one. To my mind Austria and Turkey are kind of shafted on starts. Austria is very vulnerable, but has a lot of room to expand. Turkey has no room to expand but is easy to defend. Italy has the Austrian central position, but is hard to attack. England has the Turkish ease of defence, but with a plethora of options for expansion.

I may have under-rated my position, but in 99% of strategy games, early expansion is the key to victory, and I only had one quick expansion point. You had two easy ones - if you could agree with Austria to share them.

If I were you I would have been looking to make a good ally with Austria, to share those four early expansion points, to use the territories as an opportunity to extend and receive trust on which to build a good basis for a firm alliance. Then I would have expanded North through Russia while Austria headed west into Italy and thence to France. I would also have allied with England, to distract Russia to the north and France to the West and Germany, While Austria distracted Germany and pummeled France. Austria and England then get a (hopefully) quick capture of France while I would have taken Russia and then turned west into Germany in time to meet England coming into Germany from the northwest and Austria coming into Germany from the south. A nice neat easy three-way victory.

It's three against 4, but a bit of misinformation could have had Germany and Russia at each other's throats and determined to kill each other from turn one. That would slow Germany down a bit, along with having to keep troops to defend against possible attacks from England and Austria.

I still reckon Turkey is better than Italy as a starting position. It isn't that easy to defend and a purely defensive stance is the quickest way to lose. If Austria had been hostile he could have pinned down all three armies with just a couple of his while having spares (from having expanded into the Balkans). During the whole of the starting game I was PARANOID about you and FC teaming up together and did all I could to keep you at each other's throats. It goes like this:

Start: Russia 4 units, everyone else has 3.

Start of 1901: Austria and Turkey split Balkans and end up with 5 units each. Italy takes one extra and has a fleet nowhere useful. Russia probably now has 5 units.

Austria sends 2 units against Italy, 1 to defend against Germany and 2 against Russia. Turkey sends 2 units against Italy and 3 against Russia. Italy's 4 units (only 3 in good positions) now face off against 4 enemy units. Russia with 5 units faces 5 enemy units in the south plus whatever England and Germany choose to send.

Start of 1903: Austria and Turkey have 6 or 7 units each and send a couple more against Italy who hasn't lost any but hasn't gained any either (if he's lucky). Russia is dead. France is under heavy attack from France and Germany.

Start of 1904: Italy dies.

[Murska]

The thing is, I don't plan for a 'three-way victory'. That's just another way to say 'tie' which is just a 'loss'. I knew I'd have to attack England, since either he gets stuck behind me or he goes around me so he surrounds me. Neither work for me.

If I'd have had one more move to attack Russia without England backstabbing me I'd have had enough depots and a corner position to defend against him properly even if Austria or Italy joined in, so I was in the end desperately trying to prolong the time I had just a tiny bit.

All this talk about trustworthy allies just doesn't work. NOBODY is trustworthy for the goal of the game is to win, and to win only. Tie isn't a win, therefore tie is a loss, not a 'two-way' or 'three-way' win.

What you can try to see is when you're going to fight against someone. I made the mistake of prolonging the attack on England for too long due to our alliance, which cost me the game. Italy had, and still has, no proper way to attack me so he's basically a nonfactor, while Austria was my worst land-based enemy, whom I wouldn't have to fear as long as I had sufficient centers. Austria wasn't close to my borders yet so I could rely on him not attacking me full force yet, which proved to be true, while Italy was a surprise since he had his forces way over near Turkey so I didn't expect him to attack with one army.

Of course, it makes (some) sense if you're playing to 'tie' in a game where the goal is to 'win'(And trust the other players also do that), but I couldn't know that.

[Fleeing Coward]

I agree the aim of the game is to win but that sort of went out the window when I got bogged down in the Balkans.
The way I see it, a tie is still better than a loss even though it isn't the ideal result. Besides, as RSG's statistics show, a high percentage of these games do end in a draw and you need 3 parties for that since if you're down to 2, one side will almost certainly be able to push for the win.

[Murska]

I agree the aim of the game is to win but that sort of went out the window when I got bogged down in the Balkans.
The way I see it, a tie is still better than a loss even though it isn't the ideal result. Besides, as RSG's statistics show, a high percentage of these games do end in a draw and you need 3 parties for that since if you're down to 2, one side will almost certainly be able to push for the win.

That's not true. There are two areas in the game which contain the depots needed to hold them against any sort of attack.

Also, don't try to fool anyone. FC is still going for the win, which we can see for example from the fact that he's participating in an attack against me, taking all Russia's depots, has enough armies in Turkey to push Italy out and then can easily defend against anything even the other two together can push at him since they're both mostly naval powers and as you might've noticed, naval areas are very cramped.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Edited map, as it was small. Sorry there. Still need Selrahc's disband and JX's build.

[Selrahc]

Still need Selrahc's disband

Eh, just disband them all. I'm done.

[Jontom Xire]

I missed two earlier posts! Doh!

Anyway it looks like my theory (that Italy sucks as a starting position) is borne out by the figures.

[Murska]

Italy almost never dies early, however. Italy's games focus on the early choice, he'll wait and ally with someone from one of the spheres, trying to wrest himself as much gains as possible, being the 'imbalancing factor' in the possible stalemate or one of the partners in the gang-up. Italy's playstyle is usually slow and creeping, the Lepanto openings that I don't really know much about nonwithstanding.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Heh, Lepanto. Dear god it's a bastard move, but it's become overused so it's not as popular an opening anymore.

Also, I'm having trouble keeping my naming system straight for the seasons, so if it's wrong, tell me how to fix it. Sorry if there's any confusion.

Winter 1904
Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B7%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D32723%3A9%3A7%3B347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
Build A Budapest
Build A Vienna
Build F Trieste

England:
Build A London

Germany:
Remove A Gascony
Remove A Ukraine

Italy:
Build A Rome
Build A Naples

Russia:
Remove F Livonia

Turkey:
Remove A Armenia

Spring 1905:
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Monday 8/31
Orders are due Tuesday 9/1
Retreats are due Wednesday 9/2

[RedScholarGypsy]

Oh, forgot to remind those who need it: Um, orders due.:smallredface:

[Robert Blackletter]

Dang mine be in later today, (sorry been massivly busy with family and stuff wink wink nudge nudge) sorry for delay

[billtodamax]

Hmm...
*strokes chin*
Oh, that's what those winks are for. Now why is he nudging me...

[RedScholarGypsy]

Spring 1905

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E25 6%3EWSNRCG%3D32734%3B5747347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Aegean Sea Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople
A Budapest - Trieste
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Greece - Ionian Sea
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Sevastopol - Moscow
F Trieste - Adriatic Sea
A Vienna - Tyrolia
A Warsaw Supports A Sevastopol - Moscow

England:
F Belgium - Picardy
A Brest - Paris
A Kiel - Berlin
A London - Holland
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Sea Convoys A London - Holland
F Norway Supports F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea
F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
F Barents Sea Supports F Sweden - Norway
A Berlin - Kiel
A Moscow Hold
A Munich Supports A Vienna - Tyrolia
F Sweden - Norway

Italy:
F Eastern Mediterranean - Smyrna
F Marseilles - Spain(sc)
A Naples Hold
A Paris - Burgundy
A Rome - Venice
F Smyrna - Constantinople
A Syria - Armenia
A Venice - Tyrolia

Russia:
A St Petersburg Supports A Moscow

Turkey:
F Ankara, no move received
A Constantinople, no move received

So Yeah....

I think Fleeing Coward is the new Murska in this game. Good Luck.

Not retreats needed.

Fall 1905:
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Friday 9/4
Orders are due Saturday 9/5
Retreats are due Sunday 9/6

Yes I know you aren't active weekends JX. I'll wait if need be. This is too good :smallbiggrin:.

[Fleeing Coward]

I swear I had nothing to do with those actions. It was clearly my evil twin that sent in the backstab :smallamused:

[Reinholdt]

Go England! Get them with your tea and nifty hats!

Or Italy. I like Italy too.

[Fleeing Coward]

Aww, Reinholdt hates Austria :smallfrown:

[Reinholdt]

Yeah... pretty much. Austria is red. :smallyuk:

Blue and green are much better colors.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Yeah... pretty much. Austria is red. :smallyuk:

Blue and green are much better colors.

You, Kitty, have just earned a Vendetta. :smallfurious::smallamused:

[Zar Peter]

I'm cheering for Austria.

Go Austria! You'll make it!

[Jontom Xire]

FC, that was really cruddy timing. My home supply centres are loaded with armies. So what did Murska promise you to backstab me?

[Fleeing Coward]

Murska didn't offer me anything really. I approached him for support and he decided to help since he hasn't got much to lose at this point. Besides, my attack on you does relieve pressure on him since it means he really only has England to worry about now unless you want to go kamikaze :smalltongue:

As for timing, look at your situation abit more closely before you say that my timing was cruddy :smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

Yeah... pretty much. Austria is red. :smallyuk:

Blue and green are much better colors.

What about Black? :smallsmile:

[Reinholdt]

Meh. Black's alright. I guess...

[Mustiado]

What about Black? :smallsmile:

Why you gotta be racist like that? :smallconfused:

[Murska]

Why you gotta be racist like that? :smallconfused:

Hm? :smallconfused:

[RedScholarGypsy]

Orders are due in 12.5 hours. I'll probably post them once I get them all, as they are coming earlier and earlier.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Fall 1905

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53668%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D3273%3A%3A3%3B87347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste - Venice
F Aegean Sea - Smyrna
A Constantinople - Smyrna
F Ionian Sea - Tunis
A Sevastopol Supports A Ukraine - Moscow
A Trieste - Venice
A Tyrolia Supports A Trieste - Venice
A Ukraine - Moscow
A Warsaw Supports A Ukraine - Moscow

England:
A Holland - Kiel
A Kiel Supports F North Sea - Denmark
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Spain(sc)
F North Sea - Denmark
F Norway - Sweden
F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea
A Paris Hold
F Picardy - English Channel

Germany:
F Barents Sea - Norway
A Berlin Supports F Denmark - Kiel
F Denmark - Kiel
A Moscow Hold
A Munich - Silesia
F Sweden Supports F Barents Sea - Norway

Italy:
A Armenia - Smyrna
A Burgundy - Munich
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
A Naples - Apulia
A Rome Supports A Venice
F Smyrna Hold
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold

Russia:
A St Petersburg Hold

Turkey:
F Ankara - Constantinople

Retreats Needed:
England:
A Kiel
F Norway

Germany:
A Moscow

Italy:
A Venice

Every retreat save F Norway *and A Venice* has only one escape route, so unless you want to disband it now, It'll auto go to where it can, so no need to pm me. So once Gothicbob sends me a pm we'll start the Winter phase.

Edit* Opps, forgot about Pie there. opps is my face red:smallredface:.

Go for the pun; you know you want to.

Edit2: I always did hate Trl and Tri being so close together. Still, my fault. map and orders edited to be correct.

[Fleeing Coward]

I do believe in my actions, I specified Tri - Ven not Trl to Ven.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Autumn 1905

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53699%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D3274368383347nu0mrj

Orders:
England:
A Kiel - Ruhr
F Norway - North Sea

Germany:
A Moscow - Livonia

Italy:
A Venice - Piedmont

Status:
Austria: Supp 13 Unit 9 Build 3
England: Supp 10 Unit 8 Build 2
France: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Germany: Supp 4 Unit 6 Remove 2
Italy: Supp 5 Unit 8 Remove 3
Russia: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0

A few things:
1) Win condition states that as soon as you control 18 supply depots, you win. You don't gain control untilt hey turn your color, in the Winter. Just a reminder.

2) Austria can only build three because you can only build in Home Depots. I've never seen Russia build four. Now I want to.

3) Remember that if all players agree, a draw can be declared any time.

Happy Labor Day to my fellow Americans. Enjoy whatever your LD traditions are. Mine involve meat, as most my holidays do:smallbiggrin:.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Winter 1905

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B%3B%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E25 6%3EWSNRCG%3D327472%3A8%3A7347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest
Build F Trieste

England:
Build A London
Build F Edinburgh

Germany:
Remove A Livonia
Remove A Silesia

Italy:
Remove A Armenia
Remove A Munich
Remove F Smyrna

1906 has started! I love how few rounds it takes to end the game, but it's anything but short:smallamused:.

Spring 1906
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Thursday 9/10
Orders are due Friday 9/11
Retreats are due Saturday 9/12

[RedScholarGypsy]

Negotiation phase is over. Please start sending in your orders.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Spring 1906

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53663%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D32755877%3C%3A347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea
F Aegean Sea - Greece
A Budapest - Trieste
A Constantinople - Smyrna
A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Sevastopol - Armenia
F Trieste - Adriatic Sea
F Tunis Supports F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea
A Tyrolia - Venice
A Venice - Tuscany
A Vienna - Bohemia
A Warsaw - Livonia

England:
F Barents Sea - St Petersburg(nc)
F Denmark Supports A Ruhr - Kiel
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
F English Channel - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Holland Supports A Ruhr - Kiel
A London - Yorkshire
F North Sea - Norway
A Paris - Burgundy
A Ruhr - Kiel
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean

Germany:
A Berlin - Munich
F Kiel - Denmark
F Norway Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
F Sweden Supports F Kiel - Denmark

Italy:
A Apulia - Venice
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Apulia - Venice
A Rome Supports A Apulia - Venice
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea

Russia:
A St Petersburg - Moscow

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea

Retreats Needed:
England:
F Denmark, no move received

Italy:
F Ionian Sea, no move received

Remember everyone:
Timing is everything.
Don't believe all you are told.:smallbiggrin:
GB, JX, please get me retreats soon

[Robert Blackletter]

Move me to bal please

[Cracklord]

Put me on the waiting list or whatever.

[RedScholarGypsy]

done and done.

[Jontom Xire]

I'll go to Apu, please.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Summer 1906

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3A8%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D3275%3B83677347nu0mrj

Orders:
England:
F Denmark - Baltic Sea

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Apulia

Okay, so what's a good image hosting site? Snapfish only let's me use jpg, and I've been told png would be a lot better for these images, which would probably help.

Fall 1906
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Wednesday 9/16
Orders are due Thursday 9/17
Retreats are due Friday 9/18

[RedScholarGypsy]

Hey all, I know this game has some life left, but I think I should start preparing for another Diplomacy game, as there are five names on the waiting list, and I'd rather not try to start up two games at the same time. However, the program I use allows for some variants, so I've selected a few for you to vote on.

Original:
http://people.hsc.edu/faculty-staff/mhight/Dip%20Images/Dip_Map.gif
What you guys have been playing.

Fleet Rome:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53696%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D327633665%3B347nu0mrj
Exactly what it says on the cover. A Rome is replaced with F Rome. Otherwise exact same game, though the balance in the south is very different.

Milan:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B6%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D3276336662347nu0mrj
This one changes the board slightly, and adds the territory Milan between Piedmont and Venice, and changes Piedmont's name to Savoy. Again, changing the balance in the south by changing how Italy starts.

Colonial:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53672%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D327633665%3A347nu0mrj
Completely different set up. Rules are same, of course, but everything else is out the window. I only put this up here because this variant intrigues me.


Reinholdt; Dr. Bath; EleventhHour; Zar Peter; Minion992929.

They have first dips on getting into the next game. After that, if no one else who isn't in this game wishes to join, I'll ask who wants in then select randomly to fill the remaining slots.

For voting, vote for whichever you want. Multiple YES votes are allowed. If there isn't a clear winner we fall back to Original.

[Cracklord]

I like the origonal. And I'll play Britain, if that's OK.

[Zar Peter]

Since it's my first diplomacy ever I would say Original.

[EleventhHour]

Original is fine with me. :smallsmile:But I called Britian first.

[Reinholdt]

Original then. And I'll read the rules... someday.
>>

[RedScholarGypsy]

Negotiations over. Send me your orders please. And it seems we'll be starting a new Classic Diplomacy game shortly If you guys know anyone else who might want to play feel free to sign them up. Maybe ask their permission first.:smallbiggrin:

[Murska]

That means I don't get to play in the next one, right? :smallfrown:

[RedScholarGypsy]

Still two slots open, though the players from the first game do have to stand aside for new players, but I will consider running a second Dip game...maybe with a little help.:smalleek::smallfrown:

[Robert Blackletter]

I'll play again if no one else wants in.

[Trixie]

I'd like to try :smalltongue:

[Fleeing Coward]

I'll volunteer to help run a second dip if there's enough interest. I think I've made too many enemies to play in another one soon :smallbiggrin:

[Irbis]

In, if there is still room.

[Robert Blackletter]

I'll volunteer to help run a second dip if there's enough interest. I think I've made too many enemies to play in another one soon :smallbiggrin:


Why you think that? :smalltongue:

[Fleeing Coward]

Why you think that? :smalltongue:

Because I'm a misunderstood individual who betrayed one side and then turned around and betrayed the other the very next turn :smallbiggrin:

[Robert Blackletter]

Because I'm a misunderstood individual who betrayed one side and then turned around and betrayed the other the very next turn :smallbiggrin:


Poor misunderstood fool

[RedScholarGypsy]

Okay we have seven players:
Reinholdt
Dr. Bath
EleventhHour
Zar Peter
Minion992929
Trixie
Irbis

Just waiting for Dr. Bath to confirm, then after I get home from work, I'll start the new thread for the game.

Yes, FC, I would gladly have your help.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Dr. Bath no longer has the time to play, so we are now back to six. Hopefully a 7th shall emerge. I am off to work; with any luck I'll submit the thread tonight and it'll start in the morning.

[Selrahc]

Well I'd be up for another go if we don't get any more new players.

[Zar Peter]

Why not start the game in this thread? Wouldn't be a problem in my eyes.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Fall 1906

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B4%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D327688%3C5%3C6347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea - Venice
A Armenia - Ankara
A Bohemia - Munich
F Greece - Albania
F Ionian Sea - Apulia
A Livonia - St Petersburg
A Moscow Supports A Livonia - St Petersburg
A Smyrna Supports A Armenia - Ankara
A Trieste Supports F Adriatic Sea - Venice
F Tunis - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Tuscany - Rome
A Tyrolia - Piedmont

England:
F Baltic Sea - Livonia
F Barents Sea Supports F Norwegian Sea - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich
A Holland - Kiel
A Kiel - Berlin
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Africa
F North Sea Supports F Norwegian Sea - Norway
F Norwegian Sea - Norway
F Western Mediterranean - Tunis
A Yorkshire Hold

Germany:
F Denmark Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Munich - Berlin
F Norway - North Sea
F Sweden Supports F Denmark

Italy:
F Apulia - Adriatic Sea
A Piedmont - Tyrolia
A Rome Supports A Venice
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tunis
A Venice Supports A Piedmont - Tyrolia

Russia:
A St Petersburg, no move received

Turkey:
F Black Sea - Constantinople

Retreats:
English F North Sea can retreat to Edinburgh or Norwegian Sea or
Skagerrak or Helgoland Bight or Belgium or English
Channel or London.
Austrian F Tunis can retreat to Ionian Sea.

Remember: technically Fall 1906 won't end until all retreats are final. Gothicbob, post your retreat in the forum so the others can then visualize the map, and build/disband accordingly.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I'm reluctant to do two games in a threadf because of possible confusion, but given that the first game is almost into 1907 already, I think we can do that if no one minds. And if I don't have a seventh player by tomorrow, the spot will be a toss up between Recaiden and Selrahc, as they got killed early. Mustadio has said he was not interested in another game:smallfrown:.

[Robert Blackletter]

retreat to English channel

Oh and put me down for game three With a vote towards the Colonial map.

[Murska]

I'll join game three aswell. No preference on mode.

[Robert Blackletter]

Oh game three could be nasty!

[Murska]

I won't bring over grudges from previous games. That's a sure way to not only lose but also fail at the main goal, having fun. :smallsmile:

[Zar Peter]

Sorry, I didn't realize the game is still running.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Autumn 1906

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53665%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256%3E WSNRCG%3D3276934654347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
F Tunis - Ionian Sea

England:
F North Sea - English Channel

Status:
Austria: Supp 14 Unit 12 Build 2
England: Supp 12 Unit 10 Build 2
France: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Germany: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
Italy: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
Russia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0

I have England's build and Austria's is a no brainer, so all I need is Italy's disband and we'll start the next year.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Game 2

All Game 2 Posts shall be Titled in DarkRed to differentiate.

Players:
England - EleventhHour
France - Irbis
Germany - Reinholdt
Italy - Trixie
Austria-Hungry – Zar Peter
Russia - Recaiden
Turkey – Dr. Bath

Map:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp536%3B8%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D325%3A%3B485%3B7347nu0mrj

A large map for ease of reference. (http://people.hsc.edu/faculty-staff/mhight/Dip%20Images/Dip_Map.gif)

All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Game will not start until Saturday 9/19, so that all players are aware the game has started and have time to familiarize themselves with their position.

Spring 1901
Negotiation Phase lasts until Tuesday 9/23
Orders are due Wednesday 9/24

[Reinholdt]

Eep!
*scurries off to read the rules and clean out PM box*

[EleventhHour]

Ooh! It's starting?
*pokes PM box*

But I have to keep all of mine...

[Robert Blackletter]

Well if England wants any tip pm me
I cant give much but.....

[Fleeing Coward]

Anyone who want advice on how to screw up an easy victory, feel free to pm me :smallbiggrin:
Also, I'll be building armies on my 2 open supply centres naturally. Do I need to pm you the action RSG?

[RedScholarGypsy]

I already put it in:smallamused:. We'll have to wait a bit as JX doesn't go online on weekends. He has a 'life'. Jerk:smalltongue::smallbiggrin:.

[Dr. Bath]

I'm playing? Cool cool. Replies to pms etc. may be late for a few days as I am just packing up and heading out to uni. Just a heads up.

[RedScholarGypsy]

If you don't want to still, Dr Bath, it's cool.
I may have gotten a few discussions crossed. You still want in?

[Dr. Bath]

If you don't want to still, Dr Bath, it's cool.
I may have gotten a few discussions crossed. You still want in?

Yeah sure. I'll just be a bit slow during this next week. No worries!

[RedScholarGypsy]

Okay, Minion just dropped out due to RL. It happens. Recaiden was randomly selected to replace him.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Just a Notice: Game 2 has started. It's Spring 1901. Start Negotiating.

[Jontom Xire]

Disband Pie, please.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Winter 1906

Map:
http://images2c.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp5366%3A%3Enu%3D3%3B%3C6%3E282%3E256% 3EWSNRCG%3D327733%3B84%3B347nu0mrj

Orders:
Austria:
Build A Budapest
Build A Vienna

England:
Build F London
Build F Edinburgh

Italy:
Remove A Piedmont

Spring 1907
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Wednesday 9/23
Orders are due Thursday 9/24
Retreats are due Friday 9/25


I know I posted this, unless I hit preview post instead of submit. Sorry for the delay.

[Jontom Xire]

Umm, isn't it Winter 1906, not Spring 1907?

[RedScholarGypsy]

Game 2

Negotiation phase is over. Please submit your orders. Any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Game 1
Negotiation phase has ended. Please start handing in your orders.

Game 2
Spring 1901

Map:
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/RedSG/Diplomacy%202/G2F1.png

Orders:
Austria:
A Budapest - Serbia
F Trieste - Albania
A Vienna - Bohemia

England:
F Edinburgh - North Sea
A Liverpool - Wales
F London - English Channel

France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Marseilles - Spain
A Paris - Burgundy

Germany:
A Berlin - Kiel
F Kiel - Holland
A Munich - Burgundy

Italy:
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Rome - Apulia
A Venice - Tyrolia

Russia:
A Moscow - Ukraine
F Sevastopol - Rumania
F St Petersburg(sc) - Gulf of Bothnia
A Warsaw Hold

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Constantinople

The game has begun! And it's already exciting. When I laugh while reading the orders, it's going to be a good game. For me, at least:smalltongue::smallbiggrin:.

Also, any good photo file hosting sites out there that support .png? These jpegs look like crap.

Fall 1901
All deadlines are at 9 P.M. UTC -4
Negotiation Phase lasts until Sunday 9/27
Orders are due Monday 9/28
Retreats are due Tuesday 9/29
Build Orders are due Wednesday 9/30

[EleventhHour]

Nitpick! The picture of my fleet didn't move from London. >.>

[Dr. Bath]

Try photobucket. That works fine and has an upper limit of 1 mb.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Nitpick! The picture of my fleet didn't move from London. >.>

Yeah, that pesky Fleet Brest may have had something to do with that.:smallamused:

Photobucket seems to work very well. Excellent. I'll transfer the files over on my next day off. Thankfully I saved the original game saves from each season.

[Trixie]

You can also try Imageboo. No registration, although pictures might be taken down after a longer period of inactivity, I think.

[Irbis]

Sooo... two angry Hun hordes went for Brest and Burgundy to pillage and kill - just as predicted.

And to think I had doubts about this. Someone must really hate catgirs out there :smallfrown:

Anyway, it is nice to find that someone with nice long term strategical vision decided to help me for a change. If they didn't, I'd be a very sad catgirl right now :smalltongue:

[Trixie]

EHR should be fine. :smalltongue:

Laying claim to England for the next one, if no spots open here. >.>

Austria has gone mad and must be opposed.
I love this quote.

Huh, the irony tell me this wasn't planned :smallamused:

[Zar Peter]

Huh, the irony tell me this wasn't planned :smallamused:

Actually this was because I AM Austrian. (You know? Austria? The land without Kangaroos?)

[billtodamax]

And Australia's the land that has an L. It's the little differences that matter. :smalltongue:

[Zar Peter]

Well, we have T-Shirts:

http://www.sagen.at/texte/gegenwart/IMAGES/kangaroos.jpg

:smallbiggrin:

[Reinholdt]

Well, we have T-Shirts:

http://www.sagen.at/texte/gegenwart/IMAGES/kangaroos.jpg

:smallbiggrin:
...
:smallbiggrin:
Now uh... you don't mind turning back around and actually protecting yourself against Russia do you? :smalltongue:

[Robert Blackletter]

Just looked at the map on game two and .... woah

I think this game may be a bit more aggressive then my game.

Also kinda a puzzled by some of the moves, Russia left an unguarded flank, Austria is just hopping not to be betrayed by Italy and Italy itself as sent one of it's armies towards the bottom of the country?

Hopefully all will come clear.

[Murska]

Germany attacking Russia, as we all know, is suicidal. Russia leaving Bla to Turkey is weird though.

Italy and Austria might've made a deal? Italy rarely participates in any massed attacks early on due to, well, it being pretty hard for him. The army towards the bottom of the country might be convoyed somewhere.

[Robert Blackletter]

Well Italy and Austra must have some deal in place but as you can see from our game that can mean little. We had a deal when I betrayed you (and totally fail to capitalise on it, but that a different story.) If i was Italy i be so temped to betray austra to germany and attack south. Also looking at the map there no place that makes sense to convey at this time.

I'm waiting to see what deal Russia and turkey have cut (if any but leaving bla free say something going on)

It made me smile to see such a different start to this game