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DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 10:14 PM
Hey, one player in my local group has decided to take spell focus on his divine spells aswell. But how should i tell him that he cant do that?

I'm not the DM

AmberVael
2009-07-09, 10:16 PM
Hey, one player in my local group has decided to take spell focus on his divine spells aswell. But how should i tell him that he cant do that?

I'm not the DM

That's... not actually cheating?
You can use spell focus with any spells, as long as they fall into the school of magic you selected.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-09, 10:17 PM
??

What exactly has he done?
Is he an Arcane/Divine multiclass caster with the Spell Focus feat?

If so the feat applies to both classes.
I am fairly sure that Spell focus is allowed for divine casters.

erikun
2009-07-09, 10:21 PM
Spell Focus is for a specific school. You wouldn't take Spell Focus (Cleric), but you could take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and have it apply to your Clerical conjuration spells. (for whatever point that serves)

[Edit] +1 DC isn't the same as +1 Caster Level, or even +1 Spell Level. I can't think of many Cleric spells that would benefit, besides stuff like Flame Strike.

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 10:24 PM
He has taken spell focus divine, so according to him, it applies to all his divine spells

Gaiyamato
2009-07-09, 10:27 PM
That is bollox.

Spell Focus () must apply to a school of magic. It cannot apply to a sub-school (normally) and it cannot apply to a magic type (arcane/divnine).

Tell him to pick a school else the feat does nothing at all.

Haven
2009-07-09, 10:29 PM
Oh, it's easy, just read him the description of spell focus, point out that it's "schools" and divine is not a school of magic, and if he persists bring out a picture of Morbo and tell him "SPELL FOCUS DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY"~

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 10:36 PM
I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

I think i will be given the usual speech that i put too much emphasis on the rules bla bla bla at our gaming session tonight though

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 10:49 PM
Oh, it's easy, just read him the description of spell focus, point out that it's "schools" and divine is not a school of magic, and if he persists bring out a picture of Morbo and tell him "SPELL FOCUS DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY"~

Oh i have tried that with a variety of different things, but my DM does not understand it. And i am afraid that if i push things to hard, I will get kicked out of the group.

lsfreak
2009-07-09, 10:52 PM
I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

Erm... yea, you shouldn't complain. +1DC to a fraction of useful cleric spells is nothing compared to this.

Alteran
2009-07-09, 10:58 PM
Oh i have tried that with a variety of different things, but my DM does not understand it. And i am afraid that if i push things to hard, I will get kicked out of the group.

Whether or not you're in the right here, that's pretty ridiculous. A DM's job is to make the game enjoyable for all players. If you can't question him without getting kicked from the group, it might be worthwhile to look for another group to play with.

Although with regards to the DM bending the rules for this player, it sounds like he bent them even more for you. I wouldn't cause rule disputes if you've benefited from even bigger rule "changes".

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 11:02 PM
I have no problems when the DM changes it, but when a player takes a feat without the knowledge of the DM and then persuades him that is how its supposed to work, it ticks me off. Might just be me and the fact that i am autistic.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-09, 11:17 PM
One-up him by taking Ability Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus) (in the Monster Manual) for your 'spellcasting' special attack.

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 11:20 PM
Heh, he only allows core though, which somewhat limits me as a sorcerer

quick_comment
2009-07-09, 11:21 PM
Heh, he only allows core though, which somewhat limits me as a sorcerer

The monster manual IS core.

Edit: Core= PHB, DMG, MMI.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-07-09, 11:22 PM
Your DM seems prone to giving players whatever they want, based on this and your ridicufamiliar. If you still like playing with this group, I suggest just sitting back and enjoying the Monty Haul.

DJDizzy
2009-07-09, 11:27 PM
I didnt really want my familiar that powerfull, I only wanted a psedudragon with no real combat capabilites for RP purposes, but i cant really give it back, for fear of disrupting roleplaying.

And there arent any other groups that i know off in my area of living.

erikun
2009-07-09, 11:41 PM
I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

I think i will be given the usual speech that i put too much emphasis on the rules bla bla bla at our gaming session tonight though
I would say go with it. We can only tell you what the rules say. It sounds like your group is more interested in "fun stuff" rather than applying the rules literally, so don't worry so much about it.

Tallis
2009-07-09, 11:58 PM
Just out of curiosity did your DM allow him to take spell focus:arcane as well?

I'm guessing your DM is fairly new at it, hopefully he'll learn. If not the campaign is likely to fall apart fairly quickly when he gives the players too much power and he can no longer challenge them. I say if you can't convince him to tone it down just relax and roll with it, enjoy taking over the world while it lasts.

Talon Sky
2009-07-10, 12:13 AM
I tend to let my players become overpowered by giving them what they want....or what I know they'll like....too. Once, I let my friend playing a rogue find a pair of +10 daggers to wield.

You know my solution when they become too strong? Just upping the CR of the monsters. ;p

Random832
2009-07-10, 12:46 AM
You know my solution when they become too strong? Just upping the CR of the monsters. ;p

Give them XP penalties or they level up too fast - basically they should earn XP as if the monsters are a lower CR than they actually are, because they're fighting them with too good equipment.

hewhosaysfish
2009-07-10, 06:41 AM
Could you take Weapon Focus (Martial Weapons)? :smallbiggrin:

Coidzor
2009-07-10, 06:55 AM
Heh... and here I was expecting some kind of discussion of weighted polyhedrons...

...or of someone trying to learn to nat 20 on command. ...and having a reasonable success rate such that it couldn't be dismissed as insignificant.

Vaynor
2009-07-10, 07:21 AM
Heh... and here I was expecting some kind of discussion of weighted polyhedrons...

...or of someone trying to learn to nat 20 on command. ...and having a reasonable success rate such that it couldn't be dismissed as insignificant.

That's what I was thinking, something to do with dice rolling. However, if someone manages to command a nat 20, we may just have to resort to electronic dice. I don't think the game would be very balanced when everything rolls an automatic hit.

KIDS
2009-07-10, 07:28 AM
I've also played with some cheating people. Over time I learned to just let it go because any attempt to make them stop was met with outright hostility or DM's complacement, and eventually the cheating player's outbursts caused the game to crash. Sad, but if I had brought up the issues loudly, it would have happened even faster.

Burley
2009-07-10, 07:29 AM
Y'know... I'm willing to guess that the player in question actually took Spell Focus (Divination) and doesn't understand the difference between Divine and Divination.

ColonelFuster
2009-07-10, 01:35 PM
As a sorcerer with a +2 bonus to Charisma, you are gaining the +1 to the DCs of your spells, as if you took spell focus (arcane). Your DM might actually be balancing things- I know i've let stranger things fly in my games.

AmberVael
2009-07-10, 01:37 PM
Y'know... I'm willing to guess that the player in question actually took Spell Focus (Divination) and doesn't understand the difference between Divine and Divination.

My bet is that they looked at the Cleric spell list (not the actual cleric spells) and saw that it wasn't divided up by schools like the Wizard/Sorcerer list was.
It caused some confusion for me too, at first.

Indon
2009-07-10, 01:43 PM
I would say go with it. We can only tell you what the rules say. It sounds like your group is more interested in "fun stuff" rather than applying the rules literally, so don't worry so much about it.

This.

You appear to have stumbled into a D&D campaign governed more strongly by Rule of Cool than by anything written in a book. Use this fact to do awesome things - as a Sorceror, I'd probably focus on inventing new spells to cast with that awesomeness factor.

Burley
2009-07-10, 02:06 PM
Also, something I've been thinkin': I'm assuming this player has a loose grasp of the rules, and therefore will have a loose grasp on which spells are strongest. There will most likely be a lot of divine blasting and healing, neither of which have anything useful as far as save DCs.
The good spells (save-or-suck/save-or-die) will probably get neglected.

Guancyto
2009-07-10, 02:09 PM
Could you take Weapon Focus (Martial Weapons)? :smallbiggrin:

Well, that might make the feat actually be worth taking.

Maybe.

DJDizzy
2009-07-10, 07:37 PM
Also, something I've been thinkin': I'm assuming this player has a loose grasp of the rules, and therefore will have a loose grasp on which spells are strongest. There will most likely be a lot of divine blasting and healing, neither of which have anything useful as far as save DCs.
The good spells (save-or-suck/save-or-die) will probably get neglected.

yep exactly, he threw ALOT of flame strikes today, and not enough healing.

but one thing is he brags about how he knows the rules in and out and that i dont know ****, any advice on how to stop making him act like that?

Guancyto
2009-07-10, 07:44 PM
yep exactly, he threw ALOT of flame strikes today, and not enough healing.

but one thing is he brags about how he knows the rules in and out and that i dont know ****, any advice on how to stop making him act like that?

Yes.

Let's go with "pick your battles carefully."

Gorbash
2009-07-10, 07:45 PM
You could start by playing by the rules and not having a duplicate of yourself in terms of your ridiculous familiar and then gently pointing out somewhere around pg. 90 of PHB that you can take Spell Focus only in a particular school.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-10, 08:12 PM
I just sent him a message and it seems the DM has given in. I shouldnt really complain because i got a familiar that gave me 2+ charisma and can cast the same spells as i can so i shouldnt really complain

So you got essentially the same feat as the other guy (+1 to DC to every spell) plus you can cast 2 spells per round.


Heh, he only allows core though, which somewhat limits me as a sorcerer
Limited to black tentacles followed by a blasting spell in the same round, or two enervates in the same round, etc.


I have no problems when the DM changes it, but when a player takes a feat without the knowledge of the DM and then persuades him that is how its supposed to work, it ticks me off. Might just be me and the fact that i am autistic.



but one thing is he brags about how he knows the rules in and out and that i dont know ****, any advice on how to stop making him act like that?

Sit back and enjoy the irony.

There's a famous story about Bobby Fisher. To pass the time on a plane trip, Fisher starts to play chess with the guy next to him who doesn't recognize that he is playing against Bobby Fisher. Fisher wins the first game. The other guy can't believe it. He challenges Fisher again and again, each time more exasperated. Finally, the other guy says, "I can't believe you're beating me. You don't seem to know the rules. Every game I have made at least one illegal move and you said nothing." Fisher replied, "The illegal moves weren't your best move."

Fitz10019
2009-07-10, 08:14 PM
any advice on how to stop making him act like that?

If someone's being a jerk, say, "hey, quit being a jerk." You'll find this scales nicely.