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Myrmex
2009-07-09, 11:22 PM
I am going to be starting a solo gestalt campaign, and want to play a kobold sorcerer//warlock. I am going to be using cheesy dragonwrought mechanics, but since there will be only one of me, it's ok! Also The Most Broken Template Ever (White Dragonspawn).

Starting level will be 3.

Here is the build so far:

White Dragonspawn Desert Kobold Loredrake
Binder 1/Sorcerer 1//Warlock 2

Where should I go from here?


I plan on picking up Hellfire Warlock, and binding Naberius. The kobold is going to disguise himself as a halfling, and be very elegant and speak flowery, beautiful lies. He will basically be a lying little bastard who seeks to corrupt lesser mortals for his master.

Combat will be stay back and shoot with eldritch spears until they're dead. If they can get to him while he's airborne, he will disable with sorc spells and then pew pew pew.


Any advice on spell/feat/invocation selection?

quick_comment
2009-07-09, 11:24 PM
But the binder on your warlock side. Sorcerer spell progression is already a level behind wizard, no reason to make it two.

Since you are a sorcerer, make sure you get wings of cover, wings of flurry, wings of swift flight, arcane fusion (and greater), and if you are a metamagic specialist, arcane spellsurge.

Oh, and celerity. Celerity = I win.

Also, get some summoning on your sorc side, so you have a beatstick to absorb hits for you.

And if you can get your DM to approve it for one side (its a duel progression class), you might as well go for anima mage. Progresses binder and arcane, and gives some awesome abilities.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 12:02 AM
Actually; my sorcerer spell progression will be sorc level +4 (loredrake +2, greater draconic rite +1, dragonspawn +1), which is THREE ahead of wizard.

I've been thinking anima mage, but that needs 3 levels of binder. I don't know if I want to sacrifice that much for a class I don't know much about.

RTGoodman
2009-07-10, 12:05 AM
I've been thinking anima mage, but that needs 3 levels of binder. I don't know if I want to sacrifice that much for a class I don't know much about.

I think you can access Anima Mage through just using the Vestige-binding feat (can't remember what it's called specifically). It's probably worth it - if it's the one I'm remembering, it lets you add metamagic for cheaper or even free when you unbind your vestige (or something like that), and metamagic is on of the Win buttons for arcane casters.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-10, 12:05 AM
Buy off White Dragonspawn's level adjustment as soon as you can, so you'll be getting more XP per encounter and level up faster. Maybe even say you already bought it off and you're back down to ECL 3 now, which for a solo game wouldn't really unbalance anything.

I'd say max out your Sorcerer spellcasting as hard as you can. Don't give up any levels of it that you don't absolutely have to, which means putting Binder on the Warlock side. Starting out you'll have 5th level Sorcerer spellcasting thanks to Dragonspawn Loredrake, and if you use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) you'll have 10th level spellcasting at level 6, and after that it should always stay four points higher than your character level.

Be sure to use the Metamagic Specialist ACF in PH2 in place of your Familiar. I'd probably go Binder 1/ Warlock 19 on one side, and on the other something like Sorcerer 4/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Archmage 4, or maybe finish with Dracolexi from Races of the Dragon, grabbing a Sorcerer level on the Warlock side at Dracolexi 1. Another strong choice would be Talon of Tiamat in the Draconomicon, though you'd want to alternate between Sorcerer and Warlock with its 1/2 spellcasting progression. You could also use Arcane Disciple to qualify for Thaumaturgist in the DMG, the 'best' Planar Cohort choice is a CG Ghaele Eladrin but you could try getting one with the Corrupt Creature template from BoVD.

quick_comment
2009-07-10, 12:08 AM
You can get anima mage through binder 1 and taking the improved binding feat.

In return, you get an extra spell slot of your highest level, free metamagic 3x/day and the capstone lets you once per day cast any spell as an immediate action. You also get +2 to your initiative.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 12:24 AM
Buy off White Dragonspawn's level adjustment as soon as you can, so you'll be getting more XP per encounter and level up faster. Maybe even say you already bought it off and you're back down to ECL 3 now, which for a solo game wouldn't really unbalance anything.

I should have pointed that out- I am starting at level 2 with the level already bought off.


I'd say max out your Sorcerer spellcasting as hard as you can. Don't give up any levels of it that you don't absolutely have to, which means putting Binder on the Warlock side. Starting out you'll have 5th level Sorcerer spellcasting thanks to Dragonspawn Loredrake, and if you use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) you'll have 10th level spellcasting at level 6, and after that it should always stay four points higher than your character level.

Be sure to use the Metamagic Specialist ACF in PH2 in place of your Familiar. I'd probably go Binder 1/ Warlock 19 on one side, and on the other something like Sorcerer 4/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Archmage 4, or maybe finish with Dracolexi from Races of the Dragon, grabbing a Sorcerer level on the Warlock side at Dracolexi 1. Another strong choice would be Talon of Tiamat in the Draconomicon, though you'd want to alternate between Sorcerer and Warlock with its 1/2 spellcasting progression. You could also use Arcane Disciple to qualify for Thaumaturgist in the DMG, the 'best' Planar Cohort choice is a CG Ghaele Eladrin but you could try getting one with the Corrupt Creature template from BoVD.

I was going to pick up the Rapid Metamagic feat, instead, and keep the familiar. The skill bonus will be handy, esp. for low levels when I may have to fill multiple party roles.

Mindbender *might* be doable if I can scrounge up all the skill points for it, but IotSV requires too many bogus feats to be worth it, considering that I need two (Dragonwrought and the one for greater draconic passage).


You can get anima mage through binder 1 and taking the improved binding feat.

Oh hot damn. Anima Mage at level 2!

Does Anima Mage let me bind multiple vestiges?

quick_comment
2009-07-10, 12:25 AM
Does Anima Mage let me bind multiple vestiges?

Yeah, it progresses your soul binding ability at each level, so after 10 levels of anima mage, you have the binding of an 11th level binder

Also, I would take the metamagic specialist ACF instead of rapid metamagic if you have a high enough it to make use of it. It lets you go wild with arcane spellsurge by applying metamagics and deciding to let it lengthen the spell or not.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 12:46 AM
Just looked up Improved Vestige Binding- it doesn't work for qualifying for anima mage.

quick_comment
2009-07-10, 12:51 AM
Just looked up Improved Vestige Binding- it doesn't work for qualifying for anima mage.

Sure it does.

Anima mage requires the ability to bind a 2nd level vestige.

Improved binding raises your binder level by 2 for determining what level vestige you can bind. A third level binder can bind a 2nd level vestige, so binder 1 with improved binding lets you qualify for anima mage.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 12:59 AM
Sure it does.

Anima mage requires the ability to bind a 2nd level vestige.

Improved binding raises your binder level by 2 for determining what level vestige you can bind. A third level binder can bind a 2nd level vestige, so binder 1 with improved binding lets you qualify for anima mage.

Improved Binding requires the feat Bind Vestige. Bind Vestige explicitly states that you cannot take that feat if you are already a Binder, and if you ever become a binder, you lose the benefit of Bind Vestige.

quick_comment
2009-07-10, 01:01 AM
Improved Binding requires the feat Bind Vestige. Bind Vestige explicitly states that you cannot take that feat if you are already a Binder, and if you ever become a binder, you lose the benefit of Bind Vestige.

Improved binding is not the same as improved bind vestige.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 01:02 AM
Improved binding is not the same as improved bind vestige.

/puts face in palm

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-10, 01:04 AM
Most GM's don't let you use dual-progression classes in Gestalt games (see the hextuple caster for the reason why), so Anima Mage may not be available to you.

Also, is there a reason why you are going Hellfire Warlock//Sorcerer? Warlock seems to be something which naturally combines with something like Rogue, not Sorcerer.

Sorcerer, traditionally, is paired with something that would offset it's weaknesses, which Warlock does poorly. Paladin is a good choice, because it gives you full BAB, D10 HD, good Fort saves, and your casting stat as a bonus to all your saves. Never fail a saving throw again.

Other good things to pair Sorcerer with are:

Barbarian (Full BAB, D12 HD, and beatstick ability when you are in AMF or out of spells). Let them try to 'shut you down' by dropping you in an AMF, only to see you 'hulk out' and rip their heads off!

Monk (Asecitic Mage lets you use Charisma for your Monk Bonus to AC, gives all good saves, better HD, 3/4 BAB, and some general immunities). While poor by itself, it can give some survivability to a Sorcerer

If ToB is allowed, any of the three Initiator classes are golden with Sorcerer.

Rogue. Gives good Reflex, 3/4 BAB, higher HD, and SA for RTA spells. Arcane Trickster eat your heart out, you've got it all. Be the party face skillmonkey with the ability to tell Laws of Reality to sit down and shut up.

Favored Soul. The ultimate Spontaneous Theurge. Granted, caster levels are a little slow, but hey... keys off of Charisma, and gives access to Divine Power and Righteous Might for a CoDzilla Sorcerer. Combine with Geomancer (since it isn't a dual-class PrC, it only promotes ONE side of casting) and DMM for DMM cheeze on your arcane spells (which are treated as divine with Geomancer thrown into the mix).

But Warlock is a little... meh. Okay, so you can blast really, really well. Or you can end the world with a thought. Kinda redundant, really.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 01:10 AM
advisin'

I understand all that. But since I will be solo, I would like some endurance (warlock) to go with my Real Ultimate Power.

Useful spells like dispel and fly will be at will powers, which don't have to occupy spells known.

One thing I've noticed about battlefield controllers is that they NEED someone to kill the big mean nasty after they've incapacitated it. Warlock would let me plink anything I blind/entangle/web/grapple/slow into oblivion without draining me of resources. Hellfire Warlock just makes that faster.

That, and I really like the flavor of a warlock//sorc, and I've never really played either.

quick_comment
2009-07-10, 01:19 AM
Personally, I would go (without the kobold shennanigans):

Sorcerer 5/Something 5/Jade Phoenix Mage Ten//Monk 1*/Paladin 2/Pious Templar 1/Bard 1/Warblade-Sorc 16 (on levels where JPM doesnt give casting, take sorc, otherwise take warblade)
*: Or swordsage 2 if your DM will let ascetic mage apply to its AC bonus.

Take ascetic mage, song of the white raven, snowflake wardance (or slipper of battledancing) and lingering song. You get charisma to casting, AC, saves, attack (and damage). You also get mettle, nearly full initiation, inspire courage +3 (which can be traded for dragonfire inspiration). If you are allowing paladin variants, take a nongood one, dip hexblade to get charisma to saves twice.

Myrmex
2009-07-10, 01:42 AM
Personally, I would go (without the kobold shennanigans):

Sorcerer 5/Something 5/Jade Phoenix Mage Ten//Monk 1*/Paladin 2/Pious Templar 1/Bard 1/Warblade-Sorc 16 (on levels where JPM doesnt give casting, take sorc, otherwise take warblade)
*: Or swordsage 2 if your DM will let ascetic mage apply to its AC bonus.

Take ascetic mage, song of the white raven, snowflake wardance (or slipper of battledancing) and lingering song. You get charisma to casting, AC, saves, attack (and damage). You also get mettle, nearly full initiation, inspire courage +3 (which can be traded for dragonfire inspiration). If you are allowing paladin variants, take a nongood one, dip hexblade to get charisma to saves twice.

It's a nice gish... but I don't want to play a gish.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-10, 03:48 AM
I understand all that. But since I will be solo, I would like some endurance (warlock) to go with my Real Ultimate Power.

Useful spells like dispel and fly will be at will powers, which don't have to occupy spells known.

One thing I've noticed about battlefield controllers is that they NEED someone to kill the big mean nasty after they've incapacitated it. Warlock would let me plink anything I blind/entangle/web/grapple/slow into oblivion without draining me of resources. Hellfire Warlock just makes that faster.

That, and I really like the flavor of a warlock//sorc, and I've never really played either.

The Warlock's Dispel is pretty weak tea, and Fell Flight isn't nearly as much fun as Overland Flight is, however I suppose it does allow for some economizing of your Spells Known list.

You do realize that most of the EB stuff can be done with a simple Reserve Feat, right? Heighten Spell + spell of appropriate level = always maxed out Reserve Feat (i.e. same progression as Warlock's EB). And it costs you a heck of a lot less than the dipping binder and multiple feats shennanigans.

If you are going in a solo game, you NEED some way to be able to heal yourself. So my suggestion would be Sorc/Geomancer//Favored Soul, with a couple of Reserve Feats to emulate everything the Warlock can do that you can't do better as... well... a Sorcerer. Seriously, Blasting? Not so good. Even Hellfire Warlock, or Glaivelock + Hellfire Warlock is pretty weak tea, and pretty dangerous to use. Better to lock everything down, toss a couple of summons into the mix, and pull out the popcorn for some fun. If you're worried about endurance runs, Reserve Feats + Rope Trick to rest when necessary.

Acid Splatter = Vitriolic Blast... obtainable at level 3.
Doesn't Favored Soul give wings with which you can fly anyways?
Dimensional Jaunt = teleporting around at will
Summon Elemental = unlimited Beatstick summon
Cloudy Conjuration + Summon Elemental = Stinking Cloud at will

There's your staying power. Plus, with Geomancer, you can cast in armor without penalty, you get to be able to heal yourself so you don't die, AND you get some pretty nifty self-buffs (divine power and righteous might anyone?)

Cyclocone
2009-07-10, 04:36 AM
Acid Splatter = Vitriolic Blast... obtainable at level 3.

Make that level 1 with Precious Apprentice shenanigans.:smallwink:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-10, 09:41 AM
If you're not going to grab the PH2 ACF, maybe use the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 racial substitution level and get Draconic Breath for some versatility. Pick a dragon variety that gets a fire or electrical breath attack so you can use Blinding Breath, especially considering how good a Reflex save-or-blind is against most opponents.

I'll agree that Warlock isn't a great choice. To expand on ShneekeyTheLost's suggestion, you can start out White Dragonspawn Kobold Loredrake Sorcerer 2 with 5th level spellcasting. If you can get flaws take Heighten Spell, which with even the 0-level Acid Splash will qualify you for Acid Splatter. That will deal 2d6 damage, though only at a 10 ft. range, but EB would only be 1d6 at that level. At Sorcerer 3 you'll be dealing 3d6 at 15 ft. range, which is when EB would be hitting 2d6 if you kept Warlock at max level. Plus at 3 you could take Versatile Spellcaster to put Acid Splatter at 4d6 with a 20 ft. range, twice as much damage as EB could get. You should also get Flyby Attack and maybe Improved Flight (RotW).

For the other side of your progression, maybe use the Arcane Swordsage variant. It's probably one of the most powerful classes in the game, considering it can constantly cast and recover its minute/level buffs and has no daily limit on offensive spells. Combine it with the Unarmed version, or just work out trading its weapon proficiencies with Improved Unarmed Strike so you don't have to spend another feat, and pick up Ascetic Mage to get your Cha bonus to AC. Another idea would be to take Cobra-Strike Monk with Ascetic Mage and some Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter and dip two levels into Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) to get your Cha bonus to AC twice and to saves.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-10, 07:14 PM
Make that level 1 with Precious Apprentice shenanigans.:smallwink:

I was assuming his 1st level feats, including flaws, would be tied up with said shenanigans, leaving you unable to have any feats available until level 3.

Fostire
2009-07-10, 09:10 PM
I was assuming his 1st level feats, including flaws, would be tied up with said shenanigans, leaving you unable to have any feats available until level 3.

Also, precocious apprentice is wizard only, and he's a sorcerer.

Waspinator
2009-07-10, 10:33 PM
I have to echo that a reserve feat can duplicate eldritch blast. Heighten spell plus lesser orb of fire means that basically, as long you have a spell slot left, you can burn things at will.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-11, 01:11 AM
Also, precocious apprentice is wizard only, and he's a sorcerer.

We were talking Kobold Sorcerer feats which increase spells known shenanigans, not Precicous Apprentice, I thought

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-11, 01:41 AM
Precocious Apprentice is completely irrelevant, this character has +3 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability from templates, giving him 2nd level spells at Sorcerer 1 anyway.

Fostire
2009-07-11, 12:17 PM
We were talking Kobold Sorcerer feats which increase spells known shenanigans, not Precicous Apprentice, I thought

I was just adding to what you said in response to Cyclocone's comment.